Was Judas Saved Or Not Saved?

Jesus called Peter Satan and Peter denied Jesus thrice, but was rehabilitated by the risen Lord.
If Judas had not committed suicide, the risen Jesus might have rehabilitated him too in a resurrection appearance! Judas committed suicide out of remorse, and so, may well have truly repented. His suicide is more a tragedy than an evil act. Jesus trusted him enough to make him treasurer of the 12. When Mary anoints Jesus' with perfume worth a year's wages, Judas objects that the perfume should have been sold and the money given to the poor. He may genuinely have thought that Jesus was giving in to a big ego in an inappropriate manner and also that Jesus was not the political deliverer of oppressed Jews that he hoped Jesus would be. I think the charge that he stole from the group treasury may be a later cheap shot to further slander him. In the final analysis, though, we're forced to speculate and must therefore leave the ultimate verdict to God.

Sabertooth said:

Looking at Peter's rebuke of Jesus' prophesied death [Matthew 16:21-23] and his later denial of Jesus [Matthew 26:69-75], I would say that all of the disciples were primarily moving in the flesh prior to the Pentecost.

Other examples,

• James & John wanted to call down fire on the Samaritans [Luke 9:51-56],
• Their mother sought to have their thrones set up on either side of Jesus [Matthew 20:20-23].

Judas was able to turn away so easily because he didn't have the Holy Spirit, yet.

Christians can turn away now, too, but I don't think that it is an easy process.

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How could the disciples cast out unclean spirits before the crucifixion, resurrection and Pentecost? That would include Judas.

Berserk said:

Jesus called Peter Satan and Peter denied Jesus thrice, but was rehabilitated by the risen Lord.
If Judas had not committed suicide, the risen Jesus might have rehabilitated him too in a resurrection appearance! Judas committed suicide out of remorse, and so, may well have truly repented. His suicide is more a tragedy than an evil act. Jesus trusted him enough to make him treasurer of the 12. When Mary anoints Jesus' with perfume worth a year's wages, Judas objects that the perfume should have been sold and the money given to the poor. He may genuinely have thought that Jesus was giving in to a big ego in an inappropriate manner and also that Jesus was not the political deliverer of oppressed Jews that he hoped Jesus would be. I think the charge that he stole from the group treasury may be a later cheap shot to further slander him. In the final analysis, though, we're forced to speculate and must therefore leave the ultimate verdict to God.

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Overall I think Judas was a rather likable person. I even agree with him about the perfume that the money would have been better spent on the poor. But that story shows a trait about Judas that isn't very pleasant. It wasn't his money the woman was spending. She had the right to spend it as she saw fit; and Judas was out of line thinking she should be told how to spend her own money.

I think Judas was hoping that if he got Jesus arrested, it would start a revolt. Maybe he thought the disciples would fight with the Romans and that would get other people to join in. Maybe he thought Jesus would call down fire from heaven if threatened with arrest, drive out the Romans and set up his own earthly kingdom. In all that, I think Judas was motivated by love for his fellow Jews -- but misguided in his methods. He was trying to get Jesus into a spot where he did what Judas wanted. Political machinations.

Things didn't work out the way Judas wanted. No riot or revolt happened. I think he was horrified. He hadn't done it for the money. That money made him feel terrible, so he took it back. He still felt terrible and hanged himself. I think he loved Jesus and wanted to see him as the earthly king of the Jews. It was a tragedy.

Nancy said:

By taking his own life, seems he did it to "pay" for his own sins maybe?

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After seeing the results of his betrayal of Jesus, Judas became exceedingly sorrowful to the point of regretful despair and instead of repenting, his solution instead was to commit suicide.

Lavender Purple said:

Why do I feel this is me?

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What makes you say that?

Giuliano said:

How could the disciples cast out unclean spirits before the crucifixion, resurrection and Pentecost? That would include Judas.

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It was more like the Old Testament model (like Elijah & Elisha), but they had Jesus, in Person, to tutor them. Jesus, Himself, said that He had to leave so the Holy Spirit could come [John 16:7-8] and be at more places at once. His disciples were markedly more focused and confident after Pentecost.

(The OT model for Judas would be Balaam.)

Judas was as "saved" as any of we modern believers. He may in fact have been the only disciple to consider himself as saved...hence the lack of fear. So Judas should be a warning to us. Not everyone, even in the intimate circle if disciples, is there for a good outcome. There are both vessels of honour AND vessels of shame and reproach. We are told to fear as we can also be cut off just as the natural branches were.

There is a real problem when we make the Christian walk to be about us. We reverse the polarity of truth to get things exactly backwards.

We tend to see God as we want Him to be for our sake rather than how He really is. We project our desire and religious aspirations onto Him. Whereas we should be fulfilling His will. So most of us do not perceive God correctly. And many of us don't want to perceive Him is any other way than what suits our present sense of need. We find God to be comforting to us when He is confined to the dogmatic box we have created for Him.

We can easily be deceived by limiting God to what we can perceived through the prism of our own being.

'While I was with them in the world,
I kept them in Thy Name:
those that Thou gavest Me I have kept,
and none of them is lost,
but the son of perdition;
that the scripture might be fulfilled.'
(John 17:12)

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

charity said:

'While I was with them in the world,
I kept them in Thy Name:
those that Thou gavest Me I have kept,
and none of them is lost,
but the son of perdition;
that the scripture might be fulfilled.'
(John 17:12)

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

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Amen! John 17:12 - While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. John 18:9 - that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, "Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none." Jesus did not lose Judas. Judas was already lost. Judas was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11).

Syllogism

1. All given by the Father to Jesus are kept.
2. Judas was not kept.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father

Or, this way

1. None of those given to Jesus by the Father will be lost by Jesus.
2. Judas is lost.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father.

Sabertooth said:

It was more like the Old Testament model (like Elijah & Elisha), but they had Jesus, in Person, to tutor them. Jesus, Himself, said that He had to leave so the Holy Spirit could come [John 16:7-8] and be at more places at once. His disciples were markedly more focused and confident after Pentecost.

(The OT model for Judas would be Balaam.)

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That doesn't answer my question fully. And he also sent them out in pairs without his being with them.

Matthew 10:1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

Mark 6:7 And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;
. . . .
12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.
13 And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them.

How could they do this before Pentecost? How could Judas? People today who claim to possess the Holy Spirit as received at Pentecost cannot do the deeds the disciples did before Pentecost. How can that be? What are we missing? Are we as filled with the Holy Spirit as we think?

Giuliano said:

How could they do this before Pentecost? How could Judas? People today who claim to possess the Holy Spirit as received at Pentecost cannot do the deeds the disciples did before Pentecost. How can that be? What are we missing? Are we as filled with the Holy Spirit as we think?

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It seems more like contact anointing (from Jesus) than an infilling. See 2 Kings 13:20-21.

"Then Elisha died, and they buried him. And the raiding bands from Moab invaded the land in the spring of the year.
So it was, as they were burying a man, that suddenly they spied a band of raiders;
and when the man was let down and touched the bones of Elisha,

mailmandan said:

Amen! John 17:12 - While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. John 18:9 - that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, "Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none." Jesus did not lose Judas. Judas was already lost. Judas was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11).

Syllogism

1. All given by the Father to Jesus are kept.
2. Judas was not kept.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father

Or, this way

1. None of those given to Jesus by the Father will be lost by Jesus.
2. Judas is lost.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father.

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The word "except" would not be used then. If I say I ate all the apples you gave me except one which spoiled, that apple would still be an apple.

We also read:

Luke 6:13 And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;

"Chose" is eklegomai there. The noun is "elect" or "eklektos." If Jesus picked Judas, he was "elect."

Sabertooth said:

It seems more like contact anointing (from Jesus) than an infilling. See 2 Kings 13:20-21.

"Then Elisha died, and they buried him. And the raiding bands from Moab invaded the land in the spring of the year.
So it was, as they were burying a man, that suddenly they spied a band of raiders;

and they put the man in the tomb of Elisha;​

and when the man was let down and touched the bones of Elisha,

he revived and stood on his feet."​

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So why can't more Christians today do this kind of thing? Are we lacking an anointing of some kind?

charity said:

'While I was with them in the world,
I kept them in Thy Name:
those that Thou gavest Me I have kept,
and none of them is lost,
but the son of perdition;
that the scripture might be fulfilled.'
(John 17:12)

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

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Do you know what scripture is meant there? I've wondered about that. It might give us a better understanding of what the passage means.

Lavender Purple said:

Your thoughts please

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None of the Apostles were Born again until after the resurrection. You can find this in John 20:22, where the Holy Spirit was breathed on them by the risen Christ, what happened at Pentecost was the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. Up Until that Moment in John 20 though the apostles were believers they were not under the new covenant of redemption by the blood, but rather they were under the Baptism of John Just like we find Apollos and the twelve in Ephesus later in Acts 19. Therefore, Judas was never redeemed by the Blood and died in Perdition, unredeemed. John 17:12 confirms that Judas was Lost.

For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. (Hebrews 9:16-17)

The Question should not be "do you believe?" But rather are You Born again and redeemed by the blood of the lamb? for the Devils are all believers... See James 2:19.

mailmandan said:

After seeing the results of his betrayal of Jesus, Judas became exceedingly sorrowful to the point of regretful despair and instead of repenting, his solution instead was to commit suicide.

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Uh, wait. John says he did repent.

Matthew 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

Giuliano said:

Uh, wait. John says he did repent.

Matthew 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

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Other translations say - he felt remorse/was seized with remorse/was remorseful. (NASB; NIV; NKJV) So this was not godly sorrow that produced repentance leading to salvation, but worldly sorrow that produced death.

Giuliano said:

The word "except" would not be used then. If I say I ate all the apples you gave me except one which spoiled, that apple would still be an apple.

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None of them is lost expect Judas. He was the exception.

We also read:

Luke 6:13 And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;

"Chose" is eklegomai there. The noun is "elect" or "eklektos." If Jesus picked Judas, he was "elect."

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We read John 13:18 - I do not speak concerning all of you. I know whom I have chosen; but that the Scripture may be fulfilled, 'He who eats bread with Me has lifted up his heel against Me.' So Judas was not of the elect.

mailmandan said:

After seeing the results of his betrayal of Jesus, Judas became exceedingly sorrowful to the point of regretful despair and instead of repenting, his solution instead was to commit suicide.

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Can't understand why it is so hard to repent for so many. And, Judas was by His side all that time, cannot imagine.

mailmandan said:

Other translations say - he felt remorse/was seized with remorse/was remorseful. (NASB; NIV; NKJV) So this was not godly sorrow that produced repentance leading to salvation, but worldly sorrow that produced death.

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Remorse means the same thing as repentance to me. It means wishing you could go back and do things differently.

I cannot read minds and judge hearts.