John MacArthur says you have nothing to do with being "born again"

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K9Buck

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He says you have as much to do with your spiritual birth as you do with your physical birth - nothing. He says you cannot cause yourself to be "born again". He says that neither Jesus nor Paul nor the disciples commanded anyone to do anything in order to be "born again".

Is MacArthur correct?

 

Enoch111

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He says that neither Jesus nor Paul nor the disciples commanded anyone to do anything in order to be "born again".
This is false. See Acts 2:37,38 and Acts 16:30,31. Unless a person repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, he cannot be born again (John 1:12,13; the entire 10th chapter of Romans).
 

Prayer Warrior

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He says you have as much to do with your spiritual birth as you do with your physical birth - nothing. He says you cannot cause yourself to be "born again". He says that neither Jesus nor Paul nor the disciples commanded anyone to do anything in order to be "born again".

Is MacArthur correct?

MacArthur is a Calvinist. He believes in the Calvinist view of predestination, which denies man's free will to an extent.
 

Hidden In Him

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He says you have as much to do with your spiritual birth as you do with your physical birth - nothing. He says you cannot cause yourself to be "born again". He says that neither Jesus nor Paul nor the disciples commanded anyone to do anything in order to be "born again".

Is MacArthur correct?

This is the problem with Cessationist theology. It can completely twist and screw up the interpretation of passages. As they go, MacArthur isn't the worst theologian in the world. In some ways he's quite solid. But he is completely missing it in the way he translates this passage for one thing, and it leads to a disaster in the way he interprets it.

The actual passage reads as follows:

1 There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born from above he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born from above.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” (John 3:1-8).

This entire passage is about being born from above when the Holy Spirit descends upon you after water baptism. Jesus was telling Nicodemus that he and the other Pharisees he was sent on behalf of would have to die to their former lives through water baptism and then be baptized in the Holy Spirit or they would not see Heaven. They could not simply go on living their lives as normal now that the era when the Holy Spirit would be poured out upon men had come. What set this entire conversation off was Nicodemus saying, "We know you are a teacher come from God," to which Jesus turned the conversation on its head by telling him that unless they too came from God by being born of the Spirit, they wouldn't enter the kingdom.

So to translate the passage as simply talking about being "born again" is to be completely at a loss for what is actually being talked about. From there, he compounds the error by adding that men have nothing to do with it, when Jesus very plainly states in the text that a man must be born of water. Water baptism is a decision WE make, and must make of our own volition, to turn from one form of life and start over living a new one. It represents death to one life, and rebirth into a new one. To think that we have nothing to do with such a decision is the epitome of not only bad judgment but extremely poor logic.

Like I said, I don't dislike MacArthur. In some ways he's a good teacher. But he is as blind as a bat on this one, and it stems from his completely uninformed views on the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.
 
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Episkopos

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People tend to go to extremes...as if to be balanced is to be off kilter.

But there are certain conditions that a person must meet...whether voluntary or not....so as to become a candidate of God's quickening in the spirit.

How many claim they are born again when they have merely accepted a religious idea? I think many are deluded into thinking that we are in control of a new birth. So one man will say another is born again by a religious acceptance of Jesus. But there is no intervention of God in that.

So then there are conditions...but we are born again by the power of God. It is true that no man can become born anew by his own will. Being born again is by the will of God and all that entails.
 

K9Buck

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This is the problem with Cessationist theology. It can completely twist and screw up the interpretation of passages. As they go, MacArthur isn't the worst theologian in the world. In some ways he's quite solid. But he is completely missing it in the way he translates this passage for one thing, and it leads to a disaster in the way he interprets it.

The actual passage reads as follows:

1 There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born from above he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born from above.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” (John 3:1-8).

This entire passage is about being born from above when the Holy Spirit descends upon you after water baptism. Jesus was telling Nicodemus that he and the other Pharisees he was sent on behalf of would have to die to their former lives through water baptism and then be baptized in the Holy Spirit or they would not see Heaven. They could not simply go on living their lives as normal now that the era when the Holy Spirit would be poured out upon men had come. What set this entire conversation off was Nicodemus saying, "We know you are a teacher come from God," to which Jesus turned the conversation on its head by telling him that unless they too came from God by being born of the Spirit, they wouldn't enter the kingdom.

So to translate the passage as simply talking about being "born again" is to be completely at a loss for what is actually being talked about. From there, he compounds the error by adding that men have nothing to do with it, when Jesus very plainly states in the text that a man must be born of water. Water baptism is a decision WE make, and must make of our own volition, to turn from one form of life and start over living a new one. It represents death to one life, and rebirth into a new one. To think that we have nothing to do with such a decision is the epitome of not only bad judgment but extremely poor logic.

Like I said, I don't dislike MacArthur. In some ways he's a good teacher. But he is as blind as a bat on this one, and it stems from his completely uninformed views on the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.

Thank you.
 

K9Buck

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This is the problem with Cessationist theology. It can completely twist and screw up the interpretation of passages. As they go, MacArthur isn't the worst theologian in the world. In some ways he's quite solid. But he is completely missing it in the way he translates this passage for one thing, and it leads to a disaster in the way he interprets it.

The actual passage reads as follows:

1 There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born from above he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born from above.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” (John 3:1-8).

This entire passage is about being born from above when the Holy Spirit descends upon you after water baptism. Jesus was telling Nicodemus that he and the other Pharisees he was sent on behalf of would have to die to their former lives through water baptism and then be baptized in the Holy Spirit or they would not see Heaven. They could not simply go on living their lives as normal now that the era when the Holy Spirit would be poured out upon men had come. What set this entire conversation off was Nicodemus saying, "We know you are a teacher come from God," to which Jesus turned the conversation on its head by telling him that unless they too came from God by being born of the Spirit, they wouldn't enter the kingdom.

So to translate the passage as simply talking about being "born again" is to be completely at a loss for what is actually being talked about. From there, he compounds the error by adding that men have nothing to do with it, when Jesus very plainly states in the text that a man must be born of water. Water baptism is a decision WE make, and must make of our own volition, to turn from one form of life and start over living a new one. It represents death to one life, and rebirth into a new one. To think that we have nothing to do with such a decision is the epitome of not only bad judgment but extremely poor logic.

Like I said, I don't dislike MacArthur. In some ways he's a good teacher. But he is as blind as a bat on this one, and it stems from his completely uninformed views on the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.


So if a person accepts Christ as their savior and is baptized, they are "born again"?
 

Hidden In Him

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So if a person accepts Christ as their savior and is baptized, they are "born again"?

Technically, according to the passage they have not been "born from above" until the outpouring. But whenever you state this, it always comes up as to whether or not people are saved if they have not been. But the word states that we are actually conceived spiritually when we receive the word of God (1 Peter 1:23). Water baptism and the outpouring are simply further manifestations of this, which is why people were baptized only after they became believers. It's the difference between being conceived and being birthed, if that makes any sense. There are some today who have not been water baptized and many who have not received the outpouring, but neither are actually necessary unto salvation. But the church does a great disservice to believers when they suggest that both are not needed. They are further manifestations of what it means to truly become a child of God in this world, and both are supposed to follow on the heals of spiritual conception.
 
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bbyrd009

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He says you have as much to do with your spiritual birth as you do with your physical birth - nothing. He says you cannot cause yourself to be "born again". He says that neither Jesus nor Paul nor the disciples commanded anyone to do anything in order to be "born again".

Is MacArthur correct?

well, you have to "change your mind," right, so i would say some personal action is required?
"Born again" is just maybe another way to put that, even if we have a pretty well regimented definition for that phrase now; dont buy it, imo
 

CharismaticLady

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He says you have as much to do with your spiritual birth as you do with your physical birth - nothing. He says you cannot cause yourself to be "born again". He says that neither Jesus nor Paul nor the disciples commanded anyone to do anything in order to be "born again".

Is MacArthur correct?


No, Peter said for us to REPENT! Acts 2:38.
 
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theefaith

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Is He an apostle having authority from Christ or just another self-appointed heretic

take the example of Saul, he thought he was doing righteousness and the will of God, but was acting from spiritual pride, presumption, and arrogance! And his eyes were covered with spiritual blindness, represented by the scales.
 

Enoch111

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This entire passage is about being born from above when the Holy Spirit descends upon you after water baptism.
You have it backwards. The Holy Spirit is poured out upon the believing and repentant sinner FIRST. Then comes water baptism. Water baptism does NOT produce the New Birth, and baptismal regeneration is false doctrine. When Jesus said "born of water", water was used metaphorically for the Word of God --the Gospel (1 Peter 1:23-25). The *seed* of the New Birth is the Gospel itself.

So here is the sequence according to Scripture.
ACTS 10: GENTILES SAVED BEFORE WATER BAPTISM

PETER PREACHED THE GOSPEL

36 The Word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all). 37 That Word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. 39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: 40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; 41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, evento us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. 42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

THE GENTILES BELIEVED AND RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the Word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God....[Note: Gentiles speaking in tongues was a sign to Jewish believers that they had received the gift of the Holy Spirit. This is NOT the norm]

WATER BAPTISM WAS COMMANDED BY PETER IMMEDIATELY
...Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. [Note: "In the name of the Lord" is equivalent to Matthew 28:19, NOT something different]
 
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Hidden In Him

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You have it backwards. The Holy Spirit is poured out upon the believing and repentant sinner FIRST. Then comes water baptism.

Nonsense, and I don't have time for reading your post. This happened in the case of Cornelius and his family. It does NOT happen in the case of most modern believers, nor did it happen in the case of most New Testament believers either.

If you want me to read your posts, don't lead off with false statements.
 

justbyfaith

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Hi @Enoch111,

The Holy Ghost is absolutely promised as the result of being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins (Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39)...

And while He can be received merely as the result of asking (Luke 11:9-13), He is most definitely promised to those who take the step of such a baptism in their lives.

A person may indeed be born again apart from such baptism; however, I would say that there are those who have become born again through such baptism in that they have received the promised Holy Ghost as the result of baptism in Jesus' Name. For the Holy Ghost is promised, conditionally, to those who receive such a baptism, in Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39.
 

justbyfaith

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In the case of Cornelius and friends, it should be clear that God was doing a new work in that time and was transitioning the church so that it would receive Gentiles into the fold.

Therefore, the Lord went outside of the normal protocol and gave the Holy Ghost to those who had not yet been baptized; in order that it might be seen as the proof that Gentiles can be saved and so that Gentiles would be accepted into the fold by those who were of the circumcision group, who were opposed to Gentiles being accepted into the fold apart from some kind of proof that they can be saved.
 

ChristisGod

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He says you have as much to do with your spiritual birth as you do with your physical birth - nothing. He says you cannot cause yourself to be "born again". He says that neither Jesus nor Paul nor the disciples commanded anyone to do anything in order to be "born again".

Is MacArthur correct?

what did you have to do with your physical birth ?
 
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