Why is the bible so murky and confusing?

K9Buck said:

The ten commandments is straightforward. Many of Jesus' commands are too. But much of it is very convoluted, as evidenced by the debates here on interpretations.

Why did God make it this way?

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I think it's much more straightforward than many make it out to be.

Much love!

Take for example the creation story. How many don't believe it happened that way? Doesn't that convolute things?

Much love!

marks said:

Take for example the creation story. How many don't believe it happened that way? Doesn't that convolute things?

Much love!

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This account goes on to describe the seven days of creation:

• in the beginning - God started creation
• the first day - light was created
• the second day - the sky was created
• the third day - dry land, seas, plants and trees were created
• the fourth day - the Sun, Moon and stars were created
• the fifth day - creatures that live in the sea and creatures that fly were created
• the sixth day - animals that live on the land and finally humans, made in the image of God were created
• by day seven - God finished his work of creation and rested, making the seventh day a special holy day.

K9Buck said:

Why did God make it this way?

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He's had a lot of help from mankind.

K9Buck said:

Why did God make it this way?

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The Bible is called the Sword of the Spirit, and the Word of God. But it is also called "a two-edged sword". Which means that it cuts two ways:

1. For those who humble themselves before God and believe Him ---> it opens up spiritual truths like a scalpel wielded by a surgeon.

2. For those who seek to oppose God and refuse to believe Him ----> it cuts them off from further light and blinds them to God's truth.

K9Buck said:

The ten commandments is straightforward. Many of Jesus' commands are too. But much of it is very convoluted, as evidenced by the debates here on interpretations.

Why did God make it this way?

Click to expand...

When the Bible was first being written paper and ink were not commonplace in any sort of fashion. Hebrew is one of the first written languages in world history (number 4 or 7 I think) there are some others (Egyptian, Ugarit, and others) but it was still a fairly new skill to be phonetic and pictographic at the same time for a completely metaphoric language. The Hebrew language is also unique in that there are no bad words in it...all the bad labels applied to men had to be created out of euphemisms.

So....
To make this very highbrow writings available God, in his infinite wisdom saw to it that those writing scripture did so in the most compact method possible... leaving out "of course" type common knowledge that everyone would know... including in the New Testament.

2,000 years later and after a few decades known as the Dark Ages and then going through the Rennaisance and Reformation...things aren't so obvious anymore except for those willing to put in the hours and years of research to be able to use proper Hermeneutics when deciphering what was said, why it was said, to whom it was said and by whom, and why it was said in the manner it was said in.

It's a lot of stuff to go through. It's not impossible though...

And then we got this other thing...

Everyone is a unique individual...God has a personal and unique relationship with each and every one of us. My brothers have a unique relationship with me versus my son and the relationship seen between me and my friends is different than that. All unique but I am still the same guy...

Couple that with the unique theologies that came about from knowing none of the background of the scriptures. Which was not really rediscovered until the late 19th and the middle of the 20th century.
Now you have a ton of people, sure of their own righteousness, that were out killing others who didn't believe the same as they did. (Guerilla warfare which they left Europe to escape from but brought with them to America)
And today we have the remnants of those old guerilla warfare ideals and theologies that divided people. I understand that some people find them very spiritually uplifting and encouraging...others...not so much.

You however, are responsible for your own relationship with God that drives you to lead (not boss) your family forward. And that comes either by listening or personal research.

K9Buck said:

The ten commandments is straightforward. Many of Jesus' commands are too. But much of it is very convoluted, as evidenced by the debates here on interpretations.

Why did God make it this way?

Click to expand...

Interesting you should say 'But much of it is very convoluted, as evidenced by the debates here on interpretations.'
If one applies the incorrect algorithm of course things will be 'very convoluted'

Trying to solve a maths problem with Sanskrit is equally 'very convoluted'

How is this? God is not trifled with on any level at any time. What a man sows he reaps....always, every time.

That said, the scriptures are not complicated at all. They are complex because their history spans 15-1600 years but complicated? No.
The Story or Plan of Redemption screams from its pages begging us to join the dots accurately. If however we insist on superimposing faulty views and arrangements the rabbit hole of convolution and error becomes exponential resulting in no clear understanding.

Paul, aware of this and in the light of it says 'work out your own Salvation with fear and trembling'

K9Buck said:

The ten commandments is straightforward. Many of Jesus' commands are too. But much of it is very convoluted, as evidenced by the debates here on interpretations.

Why did God make it this way?

Click to expand...

Hi,
I don't think God made it that way. I think people assume it is written to them and not to whom it was really written to. People don't want to understand the context, literary genre, or culture that the Bible was written in. I like to say the Bible was not written to us but for us.

K9Buck said:

The ten commandments is straightforward. Many of Jesus' commands are too. But much of it is very convoluted, as evidenced by the debates here on interpretations.

Why did God make it this way?

Click to expand...

bc Scripture is written in the Naive Dialectic (think Tao), only that is obscured in order to hide wisdom from the wise; but some more obvious examples,
God is our judge
God is not our judge
provide for your family
dont work for food
Christ died for our sins
No son of man may die for another's sins
etc

bbyrd009 said:

bc Scripture is written in the Naive Dialectic (think Tao), only that is obscured in order to hide wisdom from the wise; but some more obvious examples,
God is our judge
God is not our judge
provide for your family
dont work for food
Christ died for our sins
No son of man may die for another's sins
etc

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What does a Naive Dialectic mean?

The New Testament Church did not have the New Testament to draw on. The Old Testament was of little use because most could not read. Its source of authority and direction was the 12 apostles, who had spent three years with Jesus. Paul who had spent three years in the wilderness getting his orders from God. And most importantly, the Holy Spirit himself.

That is what I call the Holy or Heavenly Trinity. Now, the question is, what if we did not have the New Testament to draw on? What if what we learnt was transmitted verbally as it was in the beginning? What if we used the Holy Spirit as our source of information and wisdom and not the pastor.

What if the Holy Spirit said to you this morning "Go and visit Jack and Jill for salvation will come to their house today." Would you go or would you need to pray about it, get a second opinion or try and convince the Holy Spirit he had made a mistake?

If we were less worried about correct doctrine and more interest in correct action, could we change the world?

marksman said:

What does a Naive Dialectic mean?

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ha ya no kidding lol; how i ever got onto that is beyond me. But near as i can tell it is the opposite of "Satan's Dialectic," or the way we speak in the West. "Hegelian dialectic" also has something to do with it; we employ the Hegelian dialectic in our "discussions," whereas the Tao employs the Naive dialectic.

Ive gotten where i can recognize it and copy it a little, but thinking in it is a whole diff level i guess, and really im strictly faking it and likely always will be, having been born and raised with Hegelian thought, "this is that, that is this, you should do this, i shouldnt do that" etc, the way we speak and think?

so anyway, that should give you some decent phrases to search, and i guess google can tell you more, but suffice it to say that the way we are raised to reason is not the only way, and generally...no, strictly speaking i guess, as ppl mature they move from hegelian to naive, not finding any exceptions there hmm

Oriental ppl play baseball games to deliberate ties; why?
and what that has to do with that subject idk either lol

so, we have exactly one naive thinker in here that im aware of, @amadeus , and how he got there idk; i read a book "Mindware" by RENisbett that has one line that piqued my interest, "...and Talmudic scholars developed it over the next two millennia and more." which i dont even recall what "it" specifically is now, but pp 224-225 of Mindware
Logical and Dialectical Reasoning in Scripture

.

The Bible speaks of truth in depth...according to both realms simultaneously. That would be this temporal natural realm and the spiritual and eternal realm. A verse can have great depth with multiple meanings. So to be accurate the wordings are also cryptic at times.

There is a form of art called pointillism. It consists of tiny dots of colours making a picture that can only be seen properly, having the desired effect, from a certain distance.

Now the Bible is written in a similar way. It requires a certain prophetic distance to be properly understood.

Too close and we only see through a self-interest...and miss all the warnings against presuming and arrogance. Too far and we miss the love that is required for our brethren...and the vital connection to the Body we all need to BE His Body.

At the proper distance we see the scandal ...the cross, the cost...but also the LIFE that the Bible speaks of....rightly dividing the word of truth.

K9Buck said:

The ten commandments is straightforward. Many of Jesus' commands are too. But much of it is very convoluted, as evidenced by the debates here on interpretations.

Why did God make it this way?

Click to expand...

'The words of the LORD are pure words:
as silver tried in a furnace of earth,
purified seven times.
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD,
Thou shalt preserve them
from this generation for ever.'
(Psa 12:6)

Hello K9Buck,

God's word is not imperfect, but our understanding is.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour
Chris

'Of these things put them in remembrance,
.. charging them before the Lord
.... that they strive not about words to no profit,
...... but to the subverting of the hearers.
Study to shew thyself approved unto God,
.. a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
.... rightly dividing the word of truth.
But shun profane and vain babblings:
.. for they will increase unto more ungodliness.'
(2 Tim. 2:14-16)