ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
to confess Him as Lord means to agree with what it means that He is Lord in Scripture.
John MacArthur says you have nothing to do with being "born again"
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marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
Yes, he is if you subscribe to the Calvinist point of view which he does. Basically their idea is that you are chosen before the foundation of the world so that seals the deal.
If I look back on my conversion, I was 11 at the time. I was attending kids' meetings run by Open Air Evangelists and when one of them preached on John 3 v 16 I knew that it was me he was talking to and as I responded to his words, I felt the Holy Spirit descend on me. At the time I didn't know what it was but now I do.
The fact was, I had nothing at all to do with this except to attend a meeting. So in that sense, yes he is right.
Of course, if you subscribe to the Armenian point of view it is all up to you and God needs your help and agreement before you can be saved.
And he is right about being born again. That term only appears three times in the New Testament when Jesus said except a man be born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God.
From the time the church was launched at Pentecost, it was not used once. The three aspects they focused on was repentance, baptism in water, and the filling of the Holy Spirit.
I guess they saw those three things as essential to the experience of being born again especially the water baptism because that was putting on the new after getting rid of the old through repentance.
It is only common sense that if you are going to confess that Jesus is your Lord, He must be your Lord if you are going to confess Him as such. For "to confess" means to agree with God. But if Jesus is not your Lord, God is not in agreement with your statement that He is. For God knows what reality is.
There is also the issue of whether or not He is "your" Lord. Jesus said,
Luk 6:46, And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Let's say one was baptized as a baby and was raised in belief all of one's life. Does one need to be baptized again?
A good question.
Personally, I would say that you do not need to be baptized again; because there was faith in your life from the time of baptism onward.
But if you had a lapse in faith from the time of baptism, I don't think that having a believer's baptism will hurt you.
McArthur would claim that you have nothing to do with your desire and ability to repent. But that Calvinist claim makes God morally monstroius because God would condemn people to eternal damnation when they have no free will that can choose Christ.
truthseer
New Member
Have you asked yourself if you, and this is important, know if that person [the repenter, not you] actually got saved. Or, did you forget the part about Mat 7:20, paraphrasing, "from their fruits you shall [then] know them."
truthseer
New Member
And he, JMac, is right.
Hadn't you forgot that God is not morally restrained by human logic, but rather is the author of everyone's biography?
Hang on for a bit...
Everyone seems to be dancing around the crux and intent of this passage but failing to hit it dead center.
Please be patient and carefully read what it is that I'm going to explain.
John's Gospel account has a particular theme that runs through it...and it's the theme of Bene Elohim. (Benny eeloheem) or in English Sons of God
It starts off talking about the transformation of God's words becoming flesh (Jesus, God's Son) and then how those who believe in this can also become Sons of God.
Water in scriptures is often used as a symbol for Laws...this is interdependent upon the type of water and where it came from etc...kinda convoluted but if you were Jewish and no running water.... well, you get the idea. But suffice it to say that "living water" was a reference to running water...meaning rivers and streams and brooks and springs that flowed. All the "Baptisms" in mikvah at the Temple and other places all had to take place in running water...it was the rules.
Now after visiting Israel myself it was kinda strange to me in many ways. The early morning hours were light for hours before the sun would finally break over the Golan Heights (hills) and then that needle in the thermometer could be used as a fan as fast as the temperature would rise...it got hot quick. And that was when people would actually get up and going...not when it was comfortable...but when it was hot. (Whatever right?)
But what surprised me the most was that just after sunset the place came really alive with socializing...an almost party atmosphere. (From one end of the nation to the other)
So...
When Nicodemus comes to Jesus and instead of harassing him instantly commends him and praises the work as well as Jesus' himself....it obvious that he wants friendship with Jesus.
Coming from a member of the Sanhedrin....this was especially big doings...the apostles expect Jesus to gush right back...but Jesus is a bit stalwart. But he does gush just a little.
And says "no one can recognize me unless they are born from above"
The "veil" that God had imposed upon the Jews for their self righteous attitudes was firmly in place... Jesus knew that very few people would ever recognize him unless they had a key role to play during his ministry tour.
So Jesus said that Nicodemus was Born from Above.
This "Born from Above" title was one reserved for a very select group of people with very special parameters set about them. (They categorized everyone in their caste based society) The list of people included such heroes of the Israelites as Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Sampson, and Samuel. People whose birth had been foretold and then set about doing great things for the Nation of Israel on God's behalf.
These men were very revered...considered to have lived charmed lives so to speak.
So when Nicodemus hears that Jesus just said that he was Born from Above he believes that Jesus is wrong...he feels like a normal person... nothing special whatsoever...he doesn't know of any prophecy concerning himself.(there is one but he didn't know it was him mentioned in it...and since you are now wondering it's a good idea to look through ALL of the prophecy concerning Jesus and you will figure it out quite easily)
Nicodemus states that he would need to do the impossible...climb back in his mother's womb.
And Jesus tells him that indeed he is Born from Above and that that because he is a man who has followed the Law (water) and has the Holy Spirit (something beyond his control) he is going to do very important tasks in the future for all of Israel on God's behalf.
Basically telling Nicodemus that he is a very good guy and a trusted servant of God's and all of Israel. Where he may not have known it but God has been specifically watching him the whole time. Nicodemus is floored and has to go away for a while to go and pray. (Overloaded)
Remember the verse John 1:12 ?
This is just an extension of this verse right here.
The whole "Born Again" thing is a mistranslation that has had a huge impact when used as a marketing campaign back in the 60's and 70's. It rightly references an attitude of the concept of repentance (turn around and go the other way)....but it's just not in this spot in scriptures.
I mean really...
What would you do if you somehow found out that in the future you were going to be Nationally famous until the end of time?
Most people when reading this passage insert a "become" into Jesus' words. It isn't there....and instead of Jesus telling Nicodemus a command of something to do He is merely stating the obvious emphatically. We tend to say things differently today like "WOW, you obviously are Born Again because...." You get the idea...
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Thank you for taking the time to provide that explanation. God bless you.
It means that you can’t say that and mean it unless the Holy Spirit indwells you, which means you are Saved....
John MacArthur has seen those scriptures and doesn't disagree with them. He just takes the view, fully supported by scripture, that repentance, confession, and belief in the person of Jesus Christ are all works of the Holy Spirit upon us and in us. He's not the on!y evangelical preacher to preach these concepts and directly from scripture. In fact most mature evangelicals teach the very same thing. As an example of the doctrine, the scripture teaches us that no one seeks God. If you've had the desire to see and to know God, the normal and carnal minded reaction to the scripture that makes such claims is unbelief. "I sought God, so the scripture must be wrong!" Far from it, God who is alone our Savior sought us out, prepared our hearts to receive His word, gave us the desire to know Him, providentially and sovereignly prepared the way for us to "seek" Him. You may not agree with the concept, but it is fully supported by scripture, even taught directly to some extent throughout both old and new testaments. The doctrine is the basis of the apologetic for God's election, but election itself is not believed by everyone though plainly stated in scripture.
Thank you.
Why would God seek out some but not all? Or is he simply reaching out to the "wheat" and ignoring the weeds?
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I am a proud supporter of the BBNRadio.org Bible Broadcasting Network and miss the departed Lowell Davey, who gave John MacArthur the boot back in 1990....
In December 1989, the Bible Broadcasting Network terminated MacArthur's Grace to You program. In explaining that step, BBN president Lowell Davey referred to MacArthur's teachings on the blood of Christ and "Lordship salvation." Davey called these teachings "confusing". In a letter dated January 15, 1990, Davey cited a "....drift by Dr. MacArthur to a theological position that we could not adhere to" and said that MacArthur's sermon series on the theology of election "....convinced us that the direction of 'Grace to You' was toward Hyper-Calvinism...." MacArthur preaches salvations by election of God's sovereignty. However, the term "Hyper-Calvinism" is used by some to denote 5-point Calvinism or even any strong defense of Calvinism, rather than the historical "Hyper-Calvinism" position that only the "Elect" may be offered the Gospel (compare with the historical teaching of all Protestant denominations, including MacArthur, of the free offer of the gospel). This position does not seem to accurately reflect MacArthur's position in his sermons. The controversy concerning the efficacy of Christ's blood stems from MacArthur's statement that it is not the literal liquid blood of Christ that saves, but his sacrificial death on the Cross, a view that he espoused in an article titled "Not His Bleeding, but His Dying," published in the May 1976 issue of the Grace to You family paper distributed to his church. MacArthur himself, though, later clarified what was stated of him in the article, noting his position concerning Christ's blood and death in atonement, mentioning that the efficacy of Christ's blood is not some particular physical property of the blood itself, but the fact that He shed blood in dying, and his affirmation that Christ's blood in death was necessary to satisfy God's holy requirement for atonement. - John F. MacArthur - Wikipedia
Like Lowell Davey I believe John MacArthur's teachings tend to "Hyper-Calvinism" and I do not care for the guy.
In December 1989, the Bible Broadcasting Network terminated MacArthur's Grace to You program. In explaining that step, BBN president Lowell Davey referred to MacArthur's teachings on the blood of Christ and "Lordship salvation." Davey called these teachings "confusing". In a letter dated January 15, 1990, Davey cited a "....drift by Dr. MacArthur to a theological position that we could not adhere to" and said that MacArthur's sermon series on the theology of election "....convinced us that the direction of 'Grace to You' was toward Hyper-Calvinism...." MacArthur preaches salvations by election of God's sovereignty. However, the term "Hyper-Calvinism" is used by some to denote 5-point Calvinism or even any strong defense of Calvinism, rather than the historical "Hyper-Calvinism" position that only the "Elect" may be offered the Gospel (compare with the historical teaching of all Protestant denominations, including MacArthur, of the free offer of the gospel). This position does not seem to accurately reflect MacArthur's position in his sermons. The controversy concerning the efficacy of Christ's blood stems from MacArthur's statement that it is not the literal liquid blood of Christ that saves, but his sacrificial death on the Cross, a view that he espoused in an article titled "Not His Bleeding, but His Dying," published in the May 1976 issue of the Grace to You family paper distributed to his church. MacArthur himself, though, later clarified what was stated of him in the article, noting his position concerning Christ's blood and death in atonement, mentioning that the efficacy of Christ's blood is not some particular physical property of the blood itself, but the fact that He shed blood in dying, and his affirmation that Christ's blood in death was necessary to satisfy God's holy requirement for atonement. - John F. MacArthur - Wikipedia
Like Lowell Davey I believe John MacArthur's teachings tend to "Hyper-Calvinism" and I do not care for the guy.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Yes, you can't truly FOLLOW Christ 100% without being empowered by His sinless Spirit constantly indwelling you.
That's a reasonable question, and I wish that I had a reasonable answer. The Apostle Paul addressed it but in the form of a question.
22What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? Romans 9:22-24
The scripture doesn't reveal all the mind of God, all the reasons for our existence. God knows all things and the end from the beginning, so why did He allow Eve to be tempted and deceived by Satan, or Adam to sin willfully when it all could've been avoided? The scripture gives us no explanation of God's complete plan and purpose, but really only the revelation of His purposes in Christ, which are good, righteous and true. I don't believe that finite minds can really comprehend or fully apprehend the infinite and when considering our God who is described as omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent, we are discussing infinities. I'll be content when I can honestly say that I have attained to the mind of Christ and as born again believers in the Lord we have that mind within our reach, within our being, in the person of the "teacher", the Holy Spirit and it is not possible to live the Christian life without Him.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Also @K9Buck
Vessels for dishonor are not condemned to stay that way.
2 Timothy 2:
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.
The evangelical position is that infant baptism is not an act of your will, but that of your parents and of your church. How does an infant identify with Christ in His death when infants are pretty much blank sheets, New and unindoctrinated minds?
The evangelical equivalent of infant baptism (if you can call it that) is an infant dedication (by the parents) to raise a child in the fear of the Lord and under the admonition of scripture. There are no second generation born again believers, but each soul must be born again, regenerated by the Holy Spirit through faith in the Son of God. Adult baptism is a confession of faith (similar to Roman Catholic confirmation) and a public identification with Christ in His death and resurrection. It's not the same thing as infant baptism in any sense, because evangelicals don't believe in the concept of grace through "sacrament." Whether or not water baptism is necessary for salvation is a subject of debate even among evangelicals , but I think most would agree that it is an act of obedience (and sadly sometimes the only testimony given in regard to faith in Christ, His death and resurrection.)
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