John MacArthur says you have nothing to do with being "born again"

justbyfaith said:

However, they are not born again because they obey the gospel. They obey the gospel because they are born again [FALSE]. They are born again because they believe the gospel.[TRUE]

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You just contradicted yourself above. Since I only referenced the passage which refutes what you have said, I will quote it for you and also add another passage:

He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name:Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:11-13).

Since we must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ in order to be saved, it is only when we are saved that we are born again. Which means that obedience to the Gospel produces the New Birth (1 Peter 1:23-25).

Then we have this passage (Eph 1:13) to confirm this truth: In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the Word of Truth, the Gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise...

One cannot be sealed with the Holy Spirit until and unless one is born of the Spirit (born again), and one cannot be born again until and unless he or she has believed the Gospel, the Word of Truth, which is the *incorruptible seed* of the New Birth.

Satan is constantly trying to confuse and deceive Christians about Gospel truth through others, and using MacArthur quite effectively. That is because he chose man-made doctrines by adopting Calvinism.

@Tong2020 - I am not going to continue to engage this subject with you. You've fallen for this idea that Jesus' blood merely represents His death. You're wrong. This is a creative way for Satan to minimize the importance of the blood of Jesus. The Serpent is in Eden, again.

1 John 1
[7] But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

@Enoch111,

You have not shown that I contradicted myself; and also, the scriptures that you have quoted do not teach that we are saved by our own obedience; while they do teach that we are saved by faith: and other scriptures teach that we are saved by grace through faith apart from works / obedience / our performance / law-keeping.

07-07-07 said:

@Tong2020 - I am not going to continue to engage this subject with you. You've fallen for this idea that Jesus' blood merely represents His death. You're wrong. This is a creative way for Satan to minimize the importance of the blood of Jesus. The Serpent is in Eden, again.

1 John 1
[7] But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

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I have a question for you.

Is Jesus' literal, physical blood, applied to your body?

Are you forgiven and cleansed?

How are you forgiven and cleansed if Jesus' literal, physical blood has not been poured out on your body?

justbyfaith said:

I have a question for you.

Is Jesus' literal, physical blood, applied to your body?

Are you forgiven and cleansed?

How are you forgiven and cleansed if Jesus' literal, physical blood has not been poured out on your body?

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Jesus' literal blood was shed on an old rugged Cross 2000 years ago. So obviously, I do not have His physical blood. But, when Holy Communion is taken, it is a token of such.

07-07-07 said:

@Tong2020 - I am not going to continue to engage this subject with you. You've fallen for this idea that Jesus' blood merely represents His death. You're wrong. This is a creative way for Satan to minimize the importance of the blood of Jesus. The Serpent is in Eden, again.

1 John 1
[7] But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Click to expand...

No problem if you don't want to engage any further. But the problem in this post is your understanding that I have fallen from the idea that Jesus' blood merely represents His death. And that only shows that you did not understand what I was saying in my posts. And you are right that such idea is wrong. But sorry to disappoint you once again that that is perhaps the idea of another, but not me. So, I suggest you go over my posts and read carefully.

Again, I noticed that you ignore the arguments and questions I made in my posts. Well, that tells a lot.

Tong
R1104

justbyfaith said:

Is Jesus' literal, physical blood, applied to your body?

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The blood of Christ is LITERALLY, SPIRITUALLY, AND SUPERNATURALLY applied to the soul, in order for that soul to be cleansed from sin and guilt.

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (1 John 1:7)

John MacArthur (and many others) falsely claim that the shed blood of Christ merely represents His death, and the blood itself has no intrinsic value. That is FALSE DOCTRINE.

"The April 1986 edition of Faith For The Family quotes him as saying in a 1976 article entitled, “Not His Bleeding But His Dying” “It was His death that was efficacious. . not His blood. . . Christ did not bleed to death. The shedding of blood had nothing to do with bleeding. . . it simply means death. . . Nothing in His human blood saves…It is not His blood that I love. . . it is Him. It is not His bleeding that saved me, but His dying.” It is incredible to me, that a Christian minister would make such statements."
John MacArthur and the Blood of Christ

THIS ARTICLE CALLS IT "HERETICAL TEACHING"
"In recent years, the focus has been drawn to the subject of the blood of Christ in the doctrine of the American preacher John Fullerton MacArthur Jr. concerning the blood of Jesus Christ. He published an article titled Not His Bleeding, but His Dying,” published in the May 1976 issue of the Grace to You family paper that is distributed to his church. In the article he notes his position concerning Christ’s blood and death in atonement, mentioning that the efficacy of Christ’s blood is not some particular physical property of the blood itself, but the fact that He shed blood in dying, and his affirmation that Christ’s blood in death was necessary to satisfy God’s holy requirement for atonement."
John MacArthur and Grace to you, heretical teaching

Enoch111 said:

The blood of Christ is LITERALLY, SPIRITUALLY, AND SUPERNATURALLY applied to the soul, in order for that soul to be cleansed from sin and guilt.

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (1 John 1:7)

John MacArthur (and many others) falsely claim that the shed blood of Christ merely represents His death, and the blood itself has no intrinsic value. That is FALSE DOCTRINE.

"The April 1986 edition of Faith For The Family quotes him as saying in a 1976 article entitled, “Not His Bleeding But His Dying” “It was His death that was efficacious. . not His blood. . . Christ did not bleed to death. The shedding of blood had nothing to do with bleeding. . . it simply means death. . . Nothing in His human blood saves…It is not His blood that I love. . . it is Him. It is not His bleeding that saved me, but His dying.” It is incredible to me, that a Christian minister would make such statements."
John MacArthur and the Blood of Christ

THIS ARTICLE CALLS IT "HERETICAL TEACHING"
"In recent years, the focus has been drawn to the subject of the blood of Christ in the doctrine of the American preacher John Fullerton MacArthur Jr. concerning the blood of Jesus Christ. He published an article titled Not His Bleeding, but His Dying,” published in the May 1976 issue of the Grace to You family paper that is distributed to his church. In the article he notes his position concerning Christ’s blood and death in atonement, mentioning that the efficacy of Christ’s blood is not some particular physical property of the blood itself, but the fact that He shed blood in dying, and his affirmation that Christ’s blood in death was necessary to satisfy God’s holy requirement for atonement."
John MacArthur and Grace to you, heretical teaching

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His literal blood that came out of his literal veins out of His literal body of flesh, i.e. His physical blood, has touched your body or soul?

Are you certain that you confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh?

Enoch111 said:

THIS ARTICLE CALLS IT "HERETICAL TEACHING"
"In recent years, the focus has been drawn to the subject of the blood of Christ in the doctrine of the American preacher John Fullerton MacArthur Jr. concerning the blood of Jesus Christ. He published an article titled Not His Bleeding, but His Dying,” published in the May 1976 issue of the Grace to You family paper that is distributed to his church. In the article he notes his position concerning Christ’s blood and death in atonement, mentioning that the efficacy of Christ’s blood is not some particular physical property of the blood itself, but the fact that He shed blood in dying, and his affirmation that Christ’s blood in death was necessary to satisfy God’s holy requirement for atonement."

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Hebrews 9:23 tells us that the blood of Jesus is applied in the tabernacle in heaven and that animal sacrifices are a type of this action by the Lord, exemplified in the tabernacle on earth, in which His blood was applied to the altar and to the mercy seat, in heaven.

michaelvpardo said:

How so? And how are human instincts a measure of what is fair, good, or righteous? Human instinct is that of the beast, cruel, unkind, without mercy, and wrathful.

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@michaelvpardo The fruit of the spirit passage in Galatians is indeed relevant here.

historyb said:

I would say yes. Sorry I saw the question and wanted to answer

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No !
No one is truly born again that way. That is only the path as to becoming born again, as one only has faith in Jesus is the Christ, such is like the disciples had faith in Jesus was the Christ, but they never truly knew him ? they were not born again until Jesus went to Heaven and the Holy Spirit then came to them who had eyes to see and ears to hear, that's when the light came on as to who he truly was in fact. they did not do the will of the Father before that.
For example Peter even denied Jesus as Jesus said he would 3 times before the cock crowed, chopped off a dudes ear and such was a carnal move that Jesus disapproved. Jesus was setting the Kingdom of God out for us, he was not of this Sin led world. he did not want this world for us at all, he wanted us all to have the Kingdom of God.

Before one is born again one is of little faith, but after you have been truly born again, then you have the faith that can move mountains, no one can snatch such a one out of Gods hand, because they are His people Israel. servants of God, they do not serve mans works, they are in the Kingdom of God and they then are sent out by God among the wolves in this world.

One can not claim to be born again by your own authority, most people I have seen that display such to others are only talking to other people, but could they say such to God ? it's Jesus will that one is truly born again and it's only him who bestows such on one himself, like he did with Saul to become Paul.
I was water baptised as a baby and then grew in faith through seeking reading the word, I was strong in defending Jesus Christ I had much faith in him, but one day Bang ! the Holy Spirit came to me in a flash and then I knew him, it was an experience that blew me away just out of the blue, I knew him ! it was a blessing ! wow ! 100% conviction who Jesus Christ truly was. no shadows of doubt but total conviction. before that I was only abiding in religion and that's when I came out from them. you know Saul came out from them as well and became Paul and started preaching Jesus Christ to the world, because he was truly born again from that moment on.

justbyfaith said:

And others will decide differently; because just as I see the thing in question as being inherent in those scriptures, so will they.

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And there will be those who do not see those things inherent in scripture.

Enoch111 said:

When speaking of the blood of Christ, that is BOTH literal and spiritual.

And from Jesus Christ, who is the Faithful Witness, and the First Begotten of the dead, and the Prince of the kings of the earth. Unto Him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in His own blood...(Rev 1:5)

This is God's truth, and must be believed wholeheartedly.

As to Calvinist John MacArthur, he holds to a mixture of truth and error. A dangerous combination.

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The Life Blood is the key in all such regard, not ones blood alone as some may claim.
If one is talking from a carnal perspective the Blood will have no value at all from their perspective or a Christians.
Under the Holy Spirit perception of the life blood is another subject.

When we are pointing to Jesus Christ Blood don't we mean his Spirit.
Now Satanist may claim to have the blood of Jesus one could say or even the Cup that many a fool thinks has magical powers that you hear of claimed on TV ect, so one has to be carful on the subject. I have heard people claim it's all about the blood of Jesus and they reject the Holy Spirit has anything to do with such.

The point is that Jesus was killed because of Sinners who were led astray due to such and it's only the Holy Spirit that cuts the mustard as to that regard, for without such one would not have anything. the blood on the ground does not count for nothing truly as it is not the Holy spirit.
The blood on the ground does not save anyone, it's Jesus Life that was taken away and it's what happened from then on that is he point.

Now he never washed you in his own actual personal actual blood in fact did he, you ever had such take place, no ! it's his life that was given for you and one must pick it up to understand what is at hand in all this. because if one was talking to a carnal person and said about the blood, they would think that you were off your rocker. the Blood .

I have a bloke up the road who claims it's all about the blood. I will have to ask him is that blood O - or + or A - or + or any of the rest ?
He is not talking about the Holy Spirit, as he rejects that as he was yelling at me about that's rubbish, as it's all about the State of Israel with him, that must rule the world, everything is literal in the Bible to him, he is on a mans works trip, but he claims such is a work of God, because that's why the State has been created, he can see this so such gives him faith, then he idolises the KJV is Gods only Bible and that English is Gods word because most people in the world speak such . his gurus Jews for Jesus must of told him such and don't say anything against the Jews he claims, because they are Gods people don't you know. so he is demanding that the Jews control all and so on it goes. he will believe in Jesus when he sees him and so will the Jews he claims. I say but they seen him before and that was not good enough for them then. but he says he is coming with a rod of iron to kill everyone next. so get ready for the rapture because they have set the fire, but he will be taken out not to endure such works that they have created, but I though all reap what they sow. he is into set plans that have to be achieved that go back in history and forward I just can't think of the name they call it now.

justbyfaith said:

Hebrews 9:23 tells us that the blood of Jesus is applied in the tabernacle in heaven and that animal sacrifices are a type of this action by the Lord, exemplified in the tabernacle on earth, in which His blood was applied to the altar and to the mercy seat, in heaven.

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True. But there is another verse which tells us that the blood of Christ is applied to the souls of sinners so that they become saints.

Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. (1 Peter 1:2)

JOHN GILL'S COMMENT:"...the application of the blood of Christ to the heart, by the Spirit of God, for cleansing, pardon, and justification, is meant; which affords true, solid, conscience peace and joy now, and entitles to eternal happiness and glory..."

Just as the Israelites applied the blood of the Passover lamb to their door posts and lintels, the Holy Spirit applies the blood of Christ supernaturally to the souls of sinners to cleanse them from all sin and guilt. And the infinite value of Christ's blood KEEPS ON CLEANSING US (1 John 1:7).

Enoch111 said:

The blood of Christ is LITERALLY, SPIRITUALLY, AND SUPERNATURALLY applied to the soul, in order for that soul to be cleansed from sin and guilt.

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (1 John 1:7)

John MacArthur (and many others) falsely claim that the shed blood of Christ merely represents His death, and the blood itself has no intrinsic value. That is FALSE DOCTRINE.

"The April 1986 edition of Faith For The Family quotes him as saying in a 1976 article entitled, “Not His Bleeding But His Dying” “It was His death that was efficacious. . not His blood. . . Christ did not bleed to death. The shedding of blood had nothing to do with bleeding. . . it simply means death. . . Nothing in His human blood saves…It is not His blood that I love. . . it is Him. It is not His bleeding that saved me, but His dying.” It is incredible to me, that a Christian minister would make such statements."
John MacArthur and the Blood of Christ

THIS ARTICLE CALLS IT "HERETICAL TEACHING"
"In recent years, the focus has been drawn to the subject of the blood of Christ in the doctrine of the American preacher John Fullerton MacArthur Jr. concerning the blood of Jesus Christ. He published an article titled Not His Bleeding, but His Dying,” published in the May 1976 issue of the Grace to You family paper that is distributed to his church. In the article he notes his position concerning Christ’s blood and death in atonement, mentioning that the efficacy of Christ’s blood is not some particular physical property of the blood itself, but the fact that He shed blood in dying, and his affirmation that Christ’s blood in death was necessary to satisfy God’s holy requirement for atonement."
John MacArthur and Grace to you, heretical teaching

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Wow, I had no idea MacArthur said this about the blood of Jesus! Under the Old Covenant, God required the yearly shedding of the blood of animals on the Day of Atonement. Jesus shed His blood as the Lamb of God once for all.

Hebrews 9:12– Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

marksman said:

And there will be those who do not see those things inherent in scripture.

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As it is written,

2Co 4:4, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Enoch111 said:

True. But there is another verse which tells us that the blood of Christ is applied to the souls of sinners so that they become saints.

Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. (1 Peter 1:2)

JOHN GILL'S COMMENT:"...the application of the blood of Christ to the heart, by the Spirit of God, for cleansing, pardon, and justification, is meant; which affords true, solid, conscience peace and joy now, and entitles to eternal happiness and glory..."

Just as the Israelites applied the blood of the Passover lamb to their door posts and lintels, the Holy Spirit applies the blood of Christ supernaturally to the souls of sinners to cleanse them from all sin and guilt. And the infinite value of Christ's blood KEEPS ON CLEANSING US (1 John 1:7).

Click to expand...

So, is it Christ's physical blood that is applied?

Or, is it done only in the sense of a spiritual reality that is borne out by the fact that Jesus died for us on the Cross?

Enoch111 said:

The blood of Christ is LITERALLY, SPIRITUALLY, AND SUPERNATURALLY applied to the soul, in order for that soul to be cleansed from sin and guilt.

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (1 John 1:7)

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Obviously that idea comes from you and not from scriptures.

I have pointed out in my other post, the "blood of Jesus" refers really to His life. And that when scriptures speak of the blood of Jesus, it is a figure of speech that refers to His life as a whole.

Tong
R1105

K9Buck said:

He says you have as much to do with your spiritual birth as you do with your physical birth - nothing. He says you cannot cause yourself to be "born again". He says that neither Jesus nor Paul nor the disciples commanded anyone to do anything in order to be "born again".

Is MacArthur correct?

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so fwiw i suggest that m macarthur has the same bad def of "saved" that most Christian Mithraists have, "going up to heaven after i have literally died"