The Bodily Resurrection of Jesus

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ChristisGod

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Without the bodily resurrection which was permanent one has no Savior and you are still dead in your sins according to the Apostle Paul. 1 Corinthians 15:17

Many deny Jesus was Resurrected and Ascended into heaven bodily( a human body with real flesh and bones) and are still dead in their sins even though they might claim to be a christian. That is an oxymoron.

Luke 24:37-43
37 But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit. 38 And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." 40 And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. 41 While they still could not believe it because of their joy and amazement, He said to them, "Have you anything here to eat?" 42 They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish; 43 and He took it and ate it before them.

John 20:24-25
24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples were saying to him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them, "Unless I see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe."

John 20:27-28
27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe." 28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

There is one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. (Tim 2:5) post ascension.

Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever.(Heb 13:5) Changeless, Immutable. Jesus was a man when He walked this earth, when He Ascended and when He will return again at His 2nd Coming.

1 Cor 15:1-8
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also.

1 Cor 15:14-18
14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. 15 Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; 17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.

2 Cor 5:1-10
For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.6 So we are always confident, even though we know that as long as we live in these bodies we are not at home with the Lord. 7 For we live by believing and not by seeing. 8 Yes, we are fully confident, and we would rather be away from these earthly bodies, for then we will be at home with the Lord. 9 So whether we are here in this body or away from this body, our goal is to please him.


In Heaven....Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

Look up the meaning of the word soma below, it always means a physical body in relation to anthropos(man).

His Body.....Phil 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

Phil 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Matt 27:52-53
52 The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

Phil 3:20-21
And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

1 Cor 15:44-45
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15 that if Christ be not risen your faith is in vain and you are still dead in your sins- an unbeliever who is lost. Those who deny the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus such as the JW's who teach that Jesus is now a spirit based being fit into this camp. They deny the resurrection.

If we look at what Paul is saying in this passage, it is that corruptible flesh and blood shall not enter the kingdom. Paul says corruptible does not inherit the incorruptible. Paul is not saying the resurrection body will not have flesh but what he declares is that the resurrected body will not have perishable flesh. Remember in Luke Jesus said see here My hands and feet, touch Me a spirit/ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have. Peter, Paul and John all agree that Jesus still had flesh well after His ascension. 1 John being the last of the books of the three Apostles declared that Jesus having come in the flesh and those who deny this are the spirit of antichrist. John makes it clear that the Incarnation was permanent. Jesus is forever both God and man. This is what Paul teaches in the whole 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians. The glorious physical bodies that we will have in the resurrection. We will have incorruptible bodies just as Jesus now has in heaven.

hope this helps !!!
 

ChristisGod

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Correcting the false teaching that flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God, a spiritual body is immaterial and the meaning of a life giving Spirit.

1 CORINTHIANS 15:50: “Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.”

Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that Jesus could not have risen in His human body of flesh and bones, because Scripture states that “flesh and blood” cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Notice that Jesus did not say that His resurrected body was made of “flesh and blood.” Rather, He said His body was made of “flesh and bone” (Luke 24:39). This is significant because the term “flesh and blood” is often used in Scripture to refer to mortal humanity,in contrast to the imperishable, resurrected body alluded to by the phrase, “flesh and bones.”

Far from claiming that the resurrected human body cannot inherit God’s kingdom, this passage asserts that the mortal, perishable human body (made of flesh and blood) cannot inherit the immortal, imperishable kingdom of God. Indeed as 1 Corinthians 15:53 states, “this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.”

A spiritual body denotes an immortal body. A spiritual body is one that is dominated by the spirit, not one that is devoid of matter.The Greek word pneumatikos means a body that is directed by the spirit as opposed to one under the dominion of the flesh.It is not ruled by the flesh that perishes but by the spirit that endures. (1 Cor 15:50-58). A spiritual body does no mean immaterial or invisible but immortal and imperishable. Paul makes these parallels:

Earthly- Heavenly (verse 40)
Perishable- Imperishable (verse 42)
Weak- Powerful(verse 43)
Natural-Supernatural(verse 44)
Mortal- Immortal(verse 53)

The content shows that spiritual (pneumatikos) could be translated supernatural in contrast to natural from the parallels of perishable and imperishable, corruptible and incorruptible. Pneumatikos is translated supernatural in 1 Cor 10:4 regarding the supernatural rock that followed them in the wilderness. In the translation spiritual refers to physical objects. In 1 Cor 10:45 Paul spoke of the spiritual rock that followed Israel in the wilderness from which they got spiritual drink 1 Cor 10:4.But the OT story (Ex 17,Num 20)reveals it was a physical rock from which they got literal water to drink. The actual water they drank from the material rock was produced supernaturally. Further Paul spoke about a spiritual man 1 Cor 2:15 he obviously did not mean an invisible, immaterial man with no corporeal body. He was as a matter of fact speaking of a flesh and blood human being whose life is lived by the supernatural power of God, a literal person whose life is Spirit directed. A spiritual man is one who is taught by the Spirit and who receives the things that come from the Spirit of God. (1 Cor 2:13-14). The resurrection body can be called a spiritual body in much the same way we speak of the bible being a spiritual book. Regardless of their spiritual source and power both the resurrection body and the bible are material objects.

Life giving Spirit does not speak of the nature of Christ’s resurrected body but of the divine origin of the resurrection. Jesus physical body came back to life only by the power of God.(Rom 1:4). Paul is speaking about its spiritual source not its physical substance as a material body. If spirit describes the nature of Christ’s resurrected body then Adam with whom He is contrasted must not have a soul since he is described as of the earth, made of dust (verse 47). But the bible clearly says that Adam was a living soul(Gen 2:7). Christ’s body is called a spiritual body(soma) which always means a physical body when referring to an individual human being. The resurrected body is called spiritual and life giving spirit because its source is in the spiritual realm, not because its substance is immaterial. Christ’s supernatural resurrection body is from heaven as Adams natural body was from the earth. (verse 47). But just as the one from earth has an immaterial soul even so the One from heaven has a material body. Rhodes

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ChristisGod

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Survey: Majority of American Christians Don’t Believe the Gospel

The Story: A new survey finds that a majority of people who describe themselves as Christian accept a “works-oriented” means to God’s acceptance.

The Background: A survey conducted by the Cultural Research Center at Arizona Christian University find that American adults today increasingly adopt a “salvation-can-be-earned” perspective. A plurality of adults (48 percent) believe that if a person is generally good, or does enough good things during their life, they will “earn” a place in heaven. Only one-third of adults (35 percent) disagree.

A majority of Americans who describe themselves as Christian (52 percent) also accept a “works-oriented” means to God’s acceptance—even those associated with churches whose official doctrine says eternal salvation comes only from embracing Jesus Christ as savior. Almost half of all adults associated with Pentecostal (46 percent), mainline Protestant (44 percent), and evangelical (41 percent) churches, as well as nearly two-thirds of Catholics (70 percent), hold that view.

While about 65 percent of American adults describe themselves as Christians, only about half (54 percent) believe they will experience heaven after they die. Only one-third of adults (33 percent) believe they will go to heaven solely because of confessing their sins and embracing Jesus as their savior. Another one-in-five expecting to experience heaven are counting on earning their way in or because they embrace universalism (i.e., that God will let all people into heaven).

Among those with other views, 15 percent said they don’t know what will happen after they die; 13 percent said there is no life after death; 8 percent expect to be reincarnated; and another 8 percent believe they will go to a place of purification prior to entering heaven. A mere 2 percent believe they will go to hell.

Based on age groups, just 20 percent of people age 18 to 29 believe that when they die they will go to heaven only because they have confessed their sins and have accepted Jesus as their savior; 30 percent of those 30 to 49 and 40 percent of adults 50 and older hold that belief. Women were more likely than men (36 percent versus, 30 percent, respectively), and those who have conservative political views were much more likely to hold that belief (52 percent) than were political moderates (28 percent) or liberals (16 percent). More than one-third of whites and blacks (35 percent each) also held this view compared to only one quarter of Hispanics did (25 percent).

What It Means: Christians who believe that salvation can be earned need to read the New Testament.

The Gospel of Matthew tells of a rich young man who asked Jesus what good works he must do to inherit eternal life (Matt. 19:16). Jesus responded that if the man wanted to be judged by his works, then he must keep the entire Law—and do so perfectly. The young man thought he had done enough good works to earn a place in heaven because he was judging himself by man-made standards rather than the perfect standard of God. But that’s not how it works. As the apostle James clarifies, “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all” (Jam. 2:10).

Because we can’t keep the Law perfectly, we have to rely on someone who did—Jesus (1 Pet. 2:22). When we believe in who Jesus and what he did our “faith is credited as righteousness” (Rom. 4:5). That the good news; that’s the gospel.

The gospel according to Paul is simultaneously an affirmation of who Jesus is (Rom. 1:3-4) as well as of what he has done (1 Cor. 15). In Romans 1, Paul says he was “set apart for the gospel of God which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord . . .” Then, in 1 Corinthians 15, Paul adds:

Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.

Simon Gathercole summarizes the Pauline definition of the gospel as: God’s account of his saving activity in Jesus the Messiah, in which, by Jesus’s death and resurrection, he atones for sin and brings new creation. Our faith in Jesus, not our works, makes us right with God (Rom. 3:28).Survey: Majority of American Christians Don’t Believe the Gospel

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Davy

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Correcting the false teaching that flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God, a spiritual body is immaterial and the meaning of a life giving Spirit.

1 CORINTHIANS 15:50: “Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.”

Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that Jesus could not have risen in His human body of flesh and bones, because Scripture states that “flesh and blood” cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Notice that Jesus did not say that His resurrected body was made of “flesh and blood.” Rather, He said His body was made of “flesh and bone” (Luke 24:39). This is significant because the term “flesh and blood” is often used in Scripture to refer to mortal humanity,in contrast to the imperishable, resurrected body alluded to by the phrase, “flesh and bones.”
....

Firstly, I am not a JW.

Our Lord Jesus' flesh body was 'transfigured' to the body of the Heavenly, which is a resurrection body. Jesus' resurrected body kept the marks of His crucifixion as a sign forever. But God's Word shows His flesh body was transfigured, or 'quickened' as the KJV defines the idea, to a spirit body:

1 Cor 15:45
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

KJV

That "last Adam" is referring not just to us only, but to Jesus' resurrection, because His resurrection represents the firstfruits of those who slept (1 Corinthians 15:20).


God's Word applies our resurrection type to our Lord's resurrection type. And Paul made it clear that our resurrection type is a change to the "spiritual body", a body of incorruption, and that is what the glorious body of Christ also is.


1 Peter 3:18-19
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
KJV

That "By which" phrase is to declare Christ was able to go to those "spirits in prison" by being quickened by The Spirit, which points to His resurrection body, which of course is what Christ was before He was born in the flesh through woman's womb, except now retaining the marks of His crucifixion. Genesis 18, with Jesus appearing to Abraham as one of the "three men", shows that He was able to eat the food Abraham prepared for Him and for the two angels with Him. What kind of body was Jesus in when He ate that food? Not a flesh type body, because He had yet to be born in the flesh.

Phil 3:20-21
20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto Himself.
KJV

Apostle Paul declared our resurrection is to a "spiritual body" per 1 Corinthians 15. And he made that clear. So if our flesh vile body is going to be fashioned like Christ's glorious body, then it has to mean Christ's resurrection body also is a spiritual body.


1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is.
KJV

John also understood that our vile flesh body must be changed to have eternal life in Christ Jesus. He also compared our future resurrection body to be like Christ's resurrected body.

And again, Apostle Paul made it clear that the resurrection body type is to a "spiritual body". That also means the 1 Corinthians 15:50 verse that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God still holds true, and is not simply a doctrine of the Jehovah's Witness cult.
 

ChristisGod

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Firstly, I am not a JW.

Our Lord Jesus' flesh body was 'transfigured' to the body of the Heavenly, which is a resurrection body. Jesus' resurrected body kept the marks of His crucifixion as a sign forever. But God's Word shows His flesh body was transfigured, or 'quickened' as the KJV defines the idea, to a spirit body:

1 Cor 15:45
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

KJV

That "last Adam" is referring not just to us only, but to Jesus' resurrection, because His resurrection represents the firstfruits of those who slept (1 Corinthians 15:20).


God's Word applies our resurrection type to our Lord's resurrection type. And Paul made it clear that our resurrection type is a change to the "spiritual body", a body of incorruption, and that is what the glorious body of Christ also is.


1 Peter 3:18-19
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
KJV

That "By which" phrase is to declare Christ was able to go to those "spirits in prison" by being quickened by The Spirit, which points to His resurrection body, which of course is what Christ was before He was born in the flesh through woman's womb, except now retaining the marks of His crucifixion. Genesis 18, with Jesus appearing to Abraham as one of the "three men", shows that He was able to eat the food Abraham prepared for Him and for the two angels with Him. What kind of body was Jesus in when He ate that food? Not a flesh type body, because He had yet to be born in the flesh.


Phil 3:20-21
20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto Himself.

KJV

Apostle Paul declared our resurrection is to a "spiritual body" per 1 Corinthians 15. And he made that clear. So if our flesh vile body is going to be fashioned like Christ's glorious body, then it has to mean Christ's resurrection body also is a spiritual body.



1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is.

KJV

John also understood that our vile flesh body must be changed to have eternal life in Christ Jesus. He also compared our future resurrection body to be like Christ's resurrected body.


And again, Apostle Paul made it clear that the resurrection body type is to a "spiritual body". That also means the 1 Corinthians 15:50 verse that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God still holds true, and is not simply a doctrine of the Jehovah's Witness cult.
Are you saying Jesus present body is not real flesh and bone ?
 

justbyfaith

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In Matthew 22:30, we find that those who have glorified, resurrected bodies are as the angels of God in heaven.

This may account for the fact that Jesus claims to be the "Bright and Morning Star" in Revelation 22:16; and why Ephesians 2:20-22 identifies Him as the chief cornerstone in a habitation of God for the Spirit.

Because in descending, He never really ascended back up again to be the eternal Spirit. He continues to abide in the flesh (1 John 4:1-3 (kjv), 2 John 1:7 (kjv)).

It is Jesus the Holy Ghost who ascended back up to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10, Luke 23:46).

(It is important that you look up the verses to get the full meaning of what I am saying).
 

ChristisGod

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In Matthew 22:30, we find that those who have glorified, resurrected bodies are as the angels of God in heaven.
.
That is not true. What Jesus is saying in that passage is that when believer are Resurrected they will be like the angels in heaven in that there will be no marriage, procreation. We will not be married to our earthy spouses in heaven. That will no longer exist. The number of believers in heaven is a fixed number. There will be no couples in heaven procreating as in the first heavens and earth.

hope this helps !!!
 
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Davy

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Are you saying Jesus present body is not real flesh and bone ?

That's right, since our body is to be made like His per Apostle John, and Apostle Paul was emphatic that our resurrection body is to a "spiritual body". Anyway, I showed what the 1 Cor.15:45 verse says His body is, a quickening spirit.
 

ChristisGod

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That's right, since our body is to be made like His per Apostle John, and Apostle Paul was emphatic that our resurrection body is to a "spiritual body". Anyway, I showed what the 1 Cor.15:45 verse says His body is, a quickening spirit.
Then you are denying Jesus bodily Resurrection, Ascension and 2nd Coming declaring Jesus no longer has a real physical material body of flesh and bones.

Luke 24:39-43
"See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." And when he had said this, he showed them his hands and his feet. 41 And while they still disbelieved for joy and were marveling, he said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?” 42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43 and he took it and ate before them.

John 20:24-29
Now Thomas (also known as Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”

26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
 

justbyfaith

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That is not true. What Jesus is saying in that passage is that when believer are Resurrected they will be like the angels in heaven in that there will be no marriage, procreation. We will not be married to our earthy spouses in heaven. That will no longer exist. The number of believers in heaven is a fixed number. There will be no couples in heaven procreating as in the first heavens and earth.

hope this helps !!!
Jesus was "made a little lower than the angels" when He incarnated.

When He resurrected, He came to exist on the same level as the angels; while He never ceased to be God as the firstbegotten (who also had His beginning, as being in the flesh, through the union of the Holy Ghost with a human egg).

He is, in fact, the chief cornerstone of the Elohim.

See 1 Corinthians 6:17, Ephesians 3:19, Ephesians 4:6, Colossians 1:27, 2 Timothy 1:14; Colossians 2:9.
 

ChristisGod

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Jesus was "made a little lower than the angels" when He incarnated.

When He resurrected, He came to exist on the same level as the angels; while He never ceased to be God as the firstbegotten (who also had His beginning, as being in the flesh, through the union of the Holy Ghost with a human egg).

He is, in fact, the chief cornerstone of the Elohim.

See 1 Corinthians 6:17, Ephesians 3:19, Ephesians 4:6, Colossians 1:27, 2 Timothy 1:14; Colossians 2:9.
Jesus does not exist on the same level as the angels. He is their CREATOR as God. Angels are not worshiped and in fact refuse to be worshiped. But they worship Jesus.
 

Davy

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It's obvious that many brethren have been watching too many Hollywood movies, and are confused about this fleshy world compared to the heavenly world.

In John 3:6, Jesus said that which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit. By that He made a clear division between the existence of 2 separate dimensions of existence, this earthly flesh existence, and the spiritual heavenly existence. They are two totally different operations and manifestations.

God's Word in Hebrews 11:3 even refers to this difference, showing that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. That idea is about a law of physics that material matter can neither be created nor destroyed; earthly matter simply changes its form (gas, liquid, solid, vapor). This is a Biblical statement of true science, not man's science. It proves that this material universe did not create itself. It proves this material universe was created from some source outside material matter, pointing to the invisible God and the heavenly dimension of Spirit.

Flesh and bones, which is of this material universe dimension, cannot go into the invisible heavenly dimension made of Spirit. This is why Lord Jesus in John 4 said God is a Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.

Since Apostle Paul made it plain in 1 Corinthians 15 that our future resurrection body is "a spiritual body", and not one of flesh and bones, AND... Apostle John said when Jesus appears we will be like Him and see Him as He is, that means beyond all doubt that His resurrection body also is a spiritual body type.

How do we explain what Jesus said in Luke 24 to His Apostles about His having flesh and bones?

Jesus when He appeared to them, He then asked them if they had any meat. They gave Him fish and honeycomb, and He did eat. In Genesis 18, when Abraham looked up from his tent door, he saw "three men", and bowed to one of them calling Him his Lord, pointing to Jesus prior to His being born through woman's womb. The other two men were the two angels in the next Gen.19 chapter sent to Lot and his to get them out of Sodom and Gomorrah. Abraham prepared food for the three men, and they did eat. Same thing for the two angels that came to Lot, as Lot prepared a feast for them, and they did eat. There was nothing to show they were in a flesh body. They were in a body of the heavenly, which Apostle Paul taught is a spiritual body.

Amazing! Angels can eat our food! Yes, and we also can eat their food, the heavenly manna that came down from heaven in the wilderness, which the word manna means, 'what's that?' (Strong's no.4478). And in Hebrews 13, Apostle Paul said to be mindful to entertain strangers, because some have entertained angels unaware. Thus the spiritual body is not a ghost body like Hollywood movies portray. We cannot tell the difference between it and a flesh body, because God made the heavenly body able to walk and live upon this material earth also. In Isaiah 65 we are told that in the new heavens and new earth we will build houses and plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. That time is for those in the spiritual body on earth, the resurrection body Apostle Paul taught.

So the evidence of what the resurrection body is, even our Lord Jesus' resurrection body Who is the firstfruits of them that slept, is pointing to the type of body of the heavenly dimension. In Lord Jesus' case His flesh was 'transfigured' to the heavenly dimension body type, ours won't be. We cast off our flesh bodies, and our spiritual body is then revealed. So like Paul said, as we have borne the "image of the earthy", we shall also bear the "image of the heavenly". And that "image of the heavenly" is about the "spiritual body" he also taught in that same 1 Corinthians 15 chapter.
 

ChristisGod

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It's obvious that many brethren have been watching too many Hollywood movies, and are confused about this fleshy world compared to the heavenly world.

In John 3:6, Jesus said that which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit. By that He made a clear division between the existence of 2 separate dimensions of existence, this earthly flesh existence, and the spiritual heavenly existence. They are two totally different operations and manifestations.

You have the same view as the JW's on the bodily Resurrection of Jesus which is spirit, no body. I hate to break the news to you but not only are you denying the Resurrection of Jesus you are also denying the gospel ( is central teaching is the Resurrection)and that Jesus is fully God and fully man. The Incarnation was permanent not temporal as you are assuming. And I will also say that your belief is the very spirit of antichrist as per John below.

The number one test to distinguish truth for error and the Spirit of God from that of the spirit of antichrist is the confession of our divine Lord Jesus Christ. Every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. There is one thing the spirit of antichrist will deny and that is they will deny the deity of Jesus Christ. They will deny God in human flesh. They will always deny the Incarnation which was permanent. When a person affirms that Jesus Christ is God in flesh that equates to divine truth. Every spirit that confesses meaning to continually confess or agrees with saying the same thing as John declares in his writings is from God. This is the person who is taught by the Spirit of God according to John. The first test that you want to have for any teacher is their Christology, check out what they say about Christ. This becomes a litmus test that is very easy to spot among the false teachers. If you have somebody who denies the deity of Christ you have a clear indication they are of the spirit of antichrist.

If we go back to the beginning of 1 John, we read that which we he beheld, and actually touched concerning the Word of life. That is a term expressing the very deity of Christ. Christ emanates from God as His living Word. He was with the Father in the beginning in 1:2. Jesus was One with the Father sharing the same essence with the Father in heaven with Him before the foundation of the world. John says He was manifested to us. John's language then starts out with the fact that Jesus Christ emanates from God as the very living Word of God. Jesus is the living Word of God,the One John says that was from the beginning that we heard, we saw and we touched. Jesus the Word of life was the eternal One who was with the Father prior to His Incarnation and was then manifested to us in the flesh that we could see and hear and touch according to John. Therefore, we can clearly see Jesus is the very Word of God Incarnate. He is the eternal life who became flesh. The Word who was with God, the Word who was God, was the One who John says was manifested to us. This is how we can tell the spirit of truth from the spirit of antichrist. Can you confess Jesus is God Incarnate?


1 John 4:2
By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;

2 John 7

For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

Erchomenon the present participle in 2 John 7- coming in the flesh

Below these Greek Scholars and Theologians confirm what I have said in this thread.


Alford- the present tense is timeless(pg 274 RNTC on 2 John)

Brooke- the Incarnation is not only an event in history, it is an abiding truth(pg 274 RNTC on 2 John)

Stott- the two natures manhood and Godhood were united already at His birth, never to be divided. In 1 John 4:2 and here in 2 John 7 emphasizes this permanent union of the natures in the One Person ( TNTC pages 209-210) He who denies the Incarnation is not just a deceiver and an antichrist but “the deceiver and the antichrist”. There is in this heresy a double affront: it opposes Christ and deceives men.(stott TNCT page 210)

Marshall- the use of the present and perfect tenses becomes significant if the point is that Jesus Christ had come and still existed “in flesh”. For him(John) it was axiomatic that there had been a true Incarnation, that the word became flesh and remained flesh. It is a point that receives much stress in 1 John 2:18-28;4:1-6;5:5-8. (NICNT pages 70-71)

Smalley- the present tense emphasizes the permanent union of the human and Divine natures in Jesus. Gods self disclosure in Jesus took place at a particular moment in history , but it has continuing effects in the present and into the future(Word Biblical Commentary page 317)

Nicoll- the continuous manifestation of the Incarnate Christ(Expositors Greek Testament Volume 5 page 202)


Akin- Much has been made of the fact that John uses the present tense in this Christological confession. Literally the verse reads, “Jesus Christ coming in flesh.” “Coming” is a present active participle. This stands out in remarkable contrast to the affirmation of 1 John 4:2, where the text states that “Jesus Christ has [emphasis mine] come in the flesh.” There the perfect active participle is used. The key, it seems, is to discover what John is affirming. Here in 2 John the emphasis falls on the abiding reality of the incarnation. First John 4:2 teaches that the Christ, the Father’s Son (v. 3), has come in the flesh. Second John affirms that the wedding of deity and humanity has an abiding reality (cf. 1 Tim 2:5). The ontological and essential nature of the incarnation that would receive eloquent expression one thousand years later in the writing of St. Anselm (1033–1109) in his classic Cur Deus Homo is already present in seed form in the tiny and neglected letter of 2 John.


Lenski- In 1 John 4:2 we have ἐν σαρκὶ ἐληλυθότα, the perfect participle, “as having come in flesh” (incarnate, John 1:14); here we have ἐρχόμενον ἐν σαρκί, “as coming in flesh,” although the participle is present in form it is really timeless.
of Christ as "still being manifested." See the note at 1 John 3:5. In 1 John 4:2 we have the manifestation treated as a past fact by the perfect tense, ‎eleeluthota ‎"has come

Robertson- That Jesus Christ cometh in the flesh Ieesoun ‎‎Christon ‎‎erchomenon ‎‎en ‎‎sarki‎. "Jesus Christ coming in the flesh." Present middle participle of ‎erchomai treating the Incarnation as a continuing fact which the Docetic Gnostics flatly denied. In 1 John 4:2 we have ‎eleeluthota ‎(perfect active participle) in this same construction with ‎homologeoo‎, because there the reference is to the definite historical fact of the Incarnation.

hope this helps !!!
 

Davy

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Then you are denying Jesus bodily Resurrection, Ascension and 2nd Coming declaring Jesus no longer has a real physical material body of flesh and bones.

Your accusation is false. I do not deny Christ's resurrection. I told you the difference, that His flesh was transfigured and kept the marks of His crucifixion, but you cannot hear.

Your theory will NEVER agree with what Apostle Paul said here about the resurrection, especially the 1 Corinthians 15:50 verse:

1 Cor 15:44-50
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.


46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.


48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.


50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

KJV

The idea that our flesh is raised from the casket is from an old Jewish tradition based on a loose understanding in The Old Testament. It's a false idea that even The Old Testament Scripture like Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 proves is wrong. The New Testament gives more detail as to what happens at flesh death, but the unbelieving Jews don't accept The New Testament Epistles. Thus they stay in their primitive 'dead in the ground' theory, which is what you have espoused here.
 

Davy

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You have the same view as the JW's on the bodily Resurrection of Jesus which is spirit, no body. I hate to break the news to you but not only are you denying the Resurrection of Jesus you are also denying the gospel ( is central teaching is the Resurrection)and that Jesus is fully God and fully man. The Incarnation was permanent not temporal as you are assuming. And I will also say that your belief is the very spirit of antichrist as per John below.
....

No, that is a lie. I don't hold to what the JW believe, and I do not deny Christ's resurrection.

But what you hold to is a FALSE TRADITION OF THE JEWS, a 'dead in the ground' theory that our flesh is raised from the casket at the resurrection!

So it would appear that you have come here to push doctrines of JUDAISM, and not Christianity, and your accusations reveal this too.
 

ChristisGod

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Your accusation is false. I do not deny Christ's resurrection. I told you the difference, that His flesh was transfigured and kept the marks of His crucifixion, but you cannot hear.

Your theory will NEVER agree with what Apostle Paul said here about the resurrection, especially the 1 Corinthians 15:50 verse:

1 Cor 15:44-50
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.


46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.


48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.


50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

KJV

The idea that our flesh is raised from the casket is from an old Jewish tradition based on a loose understanding in The Old Testament. It's a false idea that even The Old Testament Scripture like Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 proves is wrong. The New Testament gives more detail as to what happens at flesh death, but the unbelieving Jews don't accept The New Testament Epistles. Thus they stay in their primitive 'dead in the ground' theory, which is what you have espoused here.
Facts to consider:

1- the tomb was empty, no body of Jesus
2- scripture says His body would not suffer decay
3- Jesus was Resurrected with His same human body that was in the tomb
4- His body still retains the scars from His crucifixion
5- soma ( body) always means a tangible, physical material body regarding man
6- Jesus declared He was not a spirit as you claim
7- Jesus said His Resurrected body was FLESH and BONES
8- the term son of man means the nature of a man, human
9- the son of man has numerous prophecies yet to be fulfilled( in the future)
10- There is One God and One Mediator between God and man, the MAN Christ Jesus( not spirit)

I could list a dozen more off the top of my head but this should be enough to suffice for now.

hope this helps!!!
 

ChristisGod

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No, that is a lie. I don't hold to what the JW believe, and I do not deny Christ's resurrection.

But what you hold to is a FALSE TRADITION OF THE JEWS, a 'dead in the ground' theory that our flesh is raised from the casket at the resurrection!

So it would appear that you have come here to push doctrines of JUDAISM, and not Christianity, and your accusations reveal this too.
wrong again I will let Job correct you below.

Job 19:26
And after my skin has been thus destroyed, yet in my flesh I shall see God,
 
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ChristisGod

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1 Corinthians 13:12
Now we see but a dim reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

I guess our heavenly bodies are nothing more than talking heads eh ?

faces without bodies..................................................................
 

ChristisGod

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That's right, since our body is to be made like His per Apostle John, and Apostle Paul was emphatic that our resurrection body is to a "spiritual body". Anyway, I showed what the 1 Cor.15:45 verse says His body is, a quickening spirit.
Phil 3:20-21
For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

Rom 8:11
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you.


Believers bodies will be transformed from its current state which is corrupt, sinful mortal to a body like His which Incorruptible, Holy/Sinless and Immortal in the Resurrection as per 1 Cor 15, Romans 8:11, Phil 3:21.

And when we compare the above with Paul in these passages below we see that the body(soma) in the context is a real material body which is physical in the Resurrection but controlled completely by the Spirit in the afterlife.

Natural(psychikos) body
Spiritual(pneumatikos) body


1 Cor 15:44
it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

Below we see how Paul uses and contrasts the words natural (psychikos) and spiritual (pneumatikos) below;


1 Cor 2:14-16
14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no man.

Paul is clearly contrasting the unsaved with the saved with the natural man and spiritual man. One is controlled by the natural or the flesh while the other is controlled by the spirit/spiritual- Holy Spirit. Just like in 1 Cor 15:44 where Paul is contrasting the natural body that is controlled by the flesh with the spiritual body that is controlled by the Spirit. Both are real physical bodies but the difference is one is controlled by the flesh which is carnal and the other is controlled by the Spirit and is spiritual. One has the appetites and desires of the flesh while the other has appetites and desires controlled by the Spirit. Hence a spiritual body is one that is controlled by the Spirit of God in the Resurrection.

Paul’s usage below of spiritual(pneumatikos) in 1 Cor 10 where he calls the rock, food and drink spiritual it does not mean an immaterial rock, food and drink but a real Rock, Manna and Water which were with the Israelites in the wilderness wanderings.

1 Cor 10:1-4
For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and all ate the same spiritual food; 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from aspiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

Now Paul drives home the point of our new literal physical bodies below in heaven from the text in 2nd Cor 5 below;

2 Cor 5:1-5
For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.

You see there is no bodiless spirit men in heaven unclothed(no body) but indeed with a heavenly body(like Jesus) has now in heaven which is flesh and bones like He said His Resurrected body was to His Disciples.

hope this helps,
 
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Davy

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Facts to consider:

1- the tomb was empty, no body of Jesus
2- scripture says His body would not suffer decay
3- Jesus was Resurrected with His same human body that was in the tomb
4- His body still retains the scars from His crucifixion
5- soma ( body) always means a tangible, physical material body regarding man
6- Jesus declared He was not a spirit as you claim
7- Jesus said His Resurrected body was FLESH and BONES
8- the term son of man means the nature of a man, human
9- the son of man has numerous prophecies yet to be fulfilled( in the future)
10- There is One God and One Mediator between God and man, the MAN Christ Jesus( not spirit)

I could list a dozen more off the top of my head but this should be enough to suffice for now.

hope this helps!!!

1 - Jesus' flesh body was transfigured to the heavenly dimension. So of course it was gone for the reason to prove that He literally resurrected from the dead.
2 - Acts 2 says His flesh didn't see corruption because it means His flesh was 'transfigured' to the heavenly dimension. Thinking Jesus in a flesh body sitting at the right hand of The Father today is backward primitive thinking outside the Scriptures.
3 - When Jesus went into Heaven to The Father, His flesh had to be transfigured, for like Apostle Paul said, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, NEITHER DOES CORRUPTION INHERIT INCORRUPTION. Your theory pushes the lie that 'corruption' CAN inherit the kingdom of God.
4 - this is true, to ever show His Sacrifice on the cross for us. And you never read me denying that anywhere, so you just added this as FODDER to try and pad your argument, which didn't work.
5 - This is easy, because Greek soma is used for the "body" that is cast into the future "lake of fire" Jesus points to in Matthew 10:28, which is about a spiritual body, not a flesh body. One should be able to easily figure this out, since Paul taught the resurrection is to "a spiritual body" per 1 Cor.15; and John 5:28-29 shows there also will be a "resurrection of damnation" ordained to perish in the "lake of fire". Furthermore, Apostle Paul in 2 Corinthians 5:1-3 explains that if our flesh body were dissolved, we still have another body not made with hands, but eternal in the heavens, which is about the "spiritual body" of 1 Cor.15.
6 - Jesus declared He was not a GHOST, which is different than the idea of Him as a Spirit (remember 1 Corinthians 15:44-50?). You might want to look up the idea of apparitions and ghosts to learn the difference.
7 - Can a ghost or apparition eat man's food? No. Jesus showed the resurrection body can eat man's food, just as He did WITHOUT a flesh body BEFORE He was born in the flesh per Gen.18. The angels are able to do the same.
8 - Ah... there is a major difference. Just as those in Christ are called "sons of God", Jesus is The Son of God. Likewise as men are called "son of man", Jesus is called "the Son of man" (Matthew 16:13). You thus do a false comparison, not understanding the Scripture.
9 - FODDER, I never argued against still existing Bible prophecies about Lord Jesus.
10 - GOD The Father is one Person, Jesus Christ The Son is another Person, and The Holy Spirit is another Person. All 3 makeup The Godhead per God's Word. They all work together, but they are all distinct.
 
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