Write My Laws on Your Hearts

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CharismaticLady

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No worries. I'm not here to argue.

I see this as a very valid question in that many people teach this way, yet nothing in the Bible actually says it, and actually seems to say quite otherwise. And this is a great venue to explore questions like this, so long as everyone plays nice.

:)

Much love!

It is part of an eight CHAPTER teaching, and Romans 8 applies to Gentiles as well as Jews, so it IS in context with the whole. Unlike you taking Romans 4 and 5 and making doctrines out of context of them as stand alone chapters.
 

marks

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Just curious. Do you know what laws are written on our hearts? The Ten Commandments? Not! Also, are you part of the New Covenant with Israel or not?
The question of this thread is asking if there is anywhere the Bible tells us God writes His Law in the hearts of gentile Christians when they become reborn. I can't find a place, so to me, your first question is moot.

But if there is a place, I expect that it would be specific. It is where it talks about God writing His Law in the hearts of people of Israel.

Am I an part of God's new covenant with Israel? Also an interesting question. Something I always think about regarding the New Covenant with Israel is the part about God returning them to their homeland never again to be cast out, each tribe with it's inheritance. That's a very "Jewish" thing.

In Christ is neither Jew nor gentile.

Are you expecting for yourself to be given a land inheritance in Israel in the Kingdom age?

Ezekiel 37
23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwelling places, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

God's judgments and statutes, what are those, if not the requirements of the Law?

Much love!
 
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marks

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It is part of an eight CHAPTER teaching, and Romans 8 applies to Gentiles as well as Jews, so it IS in context with the whole. Unlike you taking Romans 4 and 5 and making doctrines out of context of them as stand alone chapters.
Rather than continuing to make this about me . . . post the verses that show God's Law written on the hearts of Gentiles when they are born again. I don't see it myself.

Much love!
 
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Giuliano

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I don't see the divisions in the Mosaic Law, any more than I think I could go to my landlord, and tell him we'd like to have provisions 3,5,6, and 9 on our rental agreement, but not the others.

I think that we have social and cultural mores and taboos. I think that we have our conscience with a basic sense of right and wrong.

OK, here is an example. There are a number of commonalities between the Mosiac Law, and the Code of Hammurabi. But this doesn't mean that the Code of Hammurabi is written into the Mosaic Law. So there may be some commonality between our conscience, and the Mosiac Law, and there is also likely commonality between our conscience and the Code of Hammurabi, but that doesn't mean that our consciences contain either, any more than it means that the Code of Hammurabi is written into the Mosaic Law.
Here the Catholic idea of the "informed conscience" may come into play. A culture can be corrupted so badly that it corrupts the consciences of people in it. People can adopt hateful ideas without thinking too much about it, figuring society must be right. Even child sacrifice can look right if the conscience is not informed. If I believe sacrificing a baby to an idol will make the weather good so the crops are plentiful, I might think saving the lives of many people is more important so the baby should be sacrificed.
I don't think this is trivial at all! But rather than writing these lists of laws in our hearts, instead, recreate us to be loving people, right?

Much love!
Right. The purpose of the law of Moses was to save lives, not to kill people. It's like speeding laws -- most of the time, you shouldn't speed because it endangers lives -- but if you can save a life by speeding, you need to break the "letter" of that law. Think of how horrible it could be if fire trucks, ambulances and the police had to obey the speeding laws at all times.

One of the most poorly understood passages in the Old Testament is "an eye for an eye." Jesus informed us that all the law is about love, and that's what the current Jewish position is too. Any interpretation of it to be hateful can't be right. That rule does not mean if I put out your eye, you have the right to put mine out. That rule was for judges in court cases, and it still didn't involve putting people's eyes out. Different body parts had different financial values put on them. If I put out your eye, the judges might order me to pay you what the value of an eye is. On the other hand, you could show up in court and plead on my behalf, saying you knew it was an accident but didn't need the money. If you did need the money, you could not ask for more money than an eye was worth -- the penalty could not be more severe than the deed. If I put out one eye, you couldn't sue me for two. Judges were forbidden to impose a sentence more severe than the crime. Mercy was always meant to be part of that rule. Love requires that if I maim you and you can't work as well as before, I should pay you money to cover the damage I did. That is what that rule was about.

It says something about how people think which way they interpret that rule. Ha, I think even Christians can learn from studying the law of Moses to see how it really is about love -- and never about hate. Not that I have mastered all "613" commandments myself to see how they are all about love; but I am convinced they are if I was only bright enough to see it.

Psalm 19:7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.
 

CharismaticLady

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Am I an part of God's new covenant with Israel? Also an interesting question.

So, yes or no?

You're not looking at the whole picture. The Covenant was with national Israel, but only those who accepted Christ would He put His laws on their hearts. As far as going back to Jerusalem, God is keeping His promise to national Israel, as we have seen in our own lifetime (at least mine, born in 1947), and when the fullness of the Gentiles come into the Church, the partial blindness will be lifted and then all Israel in the last 7 years before Christ comes again will be saved.
 
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CharismaticLady

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Rather than continuing to make this about me . . . post the verses that show God's Law written on the hearts of Gentiles when they are born again. I don't see it myself.

Much love!

Read Romans 11. Gentiles are grafted into the promise to Israel. Thus the eternal law of God is written into our hearts as well. What are those laws, you never said. We are one Body, not two. And Romans 2 says they keep the commandments by their nature. The nature of the old man is carnal and doesn't keep the laws of God. These are born again Gentiles in context with Romans 8. You didn't understand that the first time around. I can't help that.
 

marks

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You're not looking at the whole picture. The Covenant was with national Israel, but only those who accepted Christ would He put His laws on their hearts.
Right. National Israel. That's what I'm reading.
 

marks

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Read Romans 11. Gentiles are grafted into the promise to Israel. Thus the eternal law of God is written into our hearts as well.
Neither Jew, nor Greek, in Christ . . .

What do you think is the significance of that?

If there is no Jew in Christ?

If, when they become born again, they cease being identified with National Israel?

Much love!
 
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quietthinker

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Wan't it God Who appointed 70 nations, and then chose one of them?

The question I'm asking is based on God's declaration that this single nation had special status with Him,

Jeremiah 31:31-34
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Jeremiah declares a time will come when God will make a new covenant with Israel, and will put His law in their minds, and write it on their hearts. @CadyandZoe has rightly pointed out this is singular, Law.

Ezekiel 36
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Ezekiel 37
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.
23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.

And it seems that to have God's Law written on their hearts means that they will do them, all of them.

Hebrews 8:10,
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

This is to Israel, and not the gentiles . . .

Hebrews 10:16,
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Quoting from the same place . . .

Ezekiel 11:19,
14 Again the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
15 Son of man, thy brethren, even thy brethren, the men of thy kindred, and all the house of Israel wholly, are they unto whom the inhabitants of Jerusalem have said, Get you far from the Lord: unto us is this land given in possession.
16 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord God; Although I have cast them far off among the heathen, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet will I be to them as a little sanctuary in the countries where they shall come.
17 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord God; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.

I'm unclear what your connection is here . . .

Ezekiel 36:26,
Quoted above . . . this passage is addressed specifically to Israel.

Jeremiah 31:33
33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

I'm not really thinking in terms of eschatology, but you do raise a good point! This is an eschatalogical promise to Israel, something that will happen when Jesus returns.

Ezekiel 36
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

This will be when God regathers all of Israel back to the land.

I'm just not seeing where this "write My law on your hearts" is meant for anyone besides Israel when Jesus returns.

Much love!
I don't know anything about God appointing 70 Nations Mark. Seventy elders were appointed by the Hebrew system. These were known as the Sanhedrin. I'm not sure what your reference to this is.

As for Israel....If one holds that the mention of Israel in the prophetic context is referring to a group of people in Palestine geographically bounded by a relatively small slice of real estate and then tries to interpret the scripture with this paradigm in mind, I believe one has missed the whole intent and plan of rescuing humanity from sin and death which is what the scriptures are about.

I am aware the majority of Christianity holds this position. It's what drives the current US policies in the Middle East.

The juggling however in my view required to maintain this view is fraught with many inconsistencies. Ultimately it does not hold up. I see it as a decoy. It is a view capitalised on by the ruling elite the process of which is oppressive to people who don't fit into its paradigm......hardly good news for those folk.

Revisiting the scriptures you have quoted as well as how they are to be understood is well worth the effort.

To push it a little further ....in my view, the mention of 'Israel' is to be understood in a two pronged way. There is the promise to the descendants of Jacob...literally. This promise or promises was/were always conditional on obedience. Lack of obedience forfeited the promise of blessings. This is clear in the biblical record. Ultimately the Hebrews (Israel/Jews) denied and murdered their Redeemer....the one to whom all the promises pointed and forfeited their status as a Nation of God's special people. (Jesus' words, 'your house is left desolate to you' applies here.

The promises however had/have a wider and permanent application.....Israel, not the flesh and blood descendants of Jacob but the descendants of faith....those who embraced God's mercy from all cultures and locations are deemed as Israel. The New Testament is clear on this also. Israel, the chosen of God are to inhabit the promised land flowing with milk and honey. God's people will inherit and inhabit the Earth made new....the whole planet ie, after all sin and sinners are no longer (destroyed)

I could go on drawing parallels from the scriptures and the history of physical Israel but I think this is sufficient for this post.
 
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Giuliano

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I don't know anything about God appointing 70 Nations Mark. Seventy elders were appointed by the Hebrew system. These were known as the Sanhedrin. I'm not sure what your reference to this is.
The number is not given specifically but derived from Genesis 10.

Members of the Sanhedrin were often picked when they were fluent in other languages because Israel (and the Sanhedrin especially) was to act as a nation of priests to other nations. Thus the 70 elders were there to represent the 70 nations.

It is said too that the twelve wells of water represented Israel while the 70 palm trees at Elim represented the Gentile nations.

Exodus 15:27 And they came to Elim, where were twelve wells of water, and threescore and ten palm trees: and they encamped there by the waters.

How many other trees were there in Eden? I wondered about that once and thought it was probably 70. I checked to see any reliable source thought that and found some Jews believe that too. That shows God's intention to save all the Gentiles from the very beginning.
 
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CharismaticLady

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Neither Jew, nor Greek, in Christ . . .

What do you think is the significance of that?

If there is no Jew in Christ?

If, when they become born again, they cease being identified with National Israel?

Much love!

Why can't there be any Jew in Christ??? Can there be a Gentile in Christ?
 
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CharismaticLady

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Neither Jew, nor Greek, in Christ . . .

What do you think is the significance of that?

There is no longer a distinction - no separation. We are all one in Christ. The way you are wording it seems like neither Jews nor Gentiles can be in Christ. That is a wrong interpretation. It is just like neither male nor female. Does that mean no men or women can be in Christ, or that there is no difference. Christ doesn't prefer men over women to come to Him, nor visa versa. And He is no longer preferring Jews over Gentiles.
 
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CharismaticLady

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For years I thought these were unsaved Gentiles that were a law unto themselves, but no. These are grafted in Gentiles to the Church, without the Jewish law, but the law of the Spirit of life in Christ.

How could I miss this for so long! Actually decades! I've only seen the truth for a couple months!

for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature (BORN AGAIN!!!) do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

@Nancy, I knew you would understand.
 
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Nancy

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For years I thought these were unsaved Gentiles that were a law unto themselves, but no. These are grafted in Gentiles to the Church, without the Jewish law, but the law of the Spirit of life in Christ.

How could I miss this for so long! Actually decades! I've only seen the truth for a couple months!

for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature (BORN AGAIN!!!) do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

Good catch! I too thought they were unsaved Gentiles. Actually it was a scripture I once thought was talking about those who might have never heard the Gospel. But then we have too many verses saying the Gospel will be preached throughout the world. (and, there are some verses, to me anyhow, saying that the Gospel already was taken throughout the world) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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Nancy

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@Nancy, I knew you would understand.

The distinction you mean, yes? It seems clear to me that there is no "class" of Christian, 'whether they be Jew, Greek, male female...ALL are one in Christ'
I think this is what you are saying here sister.
 

CharismaticLady

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Good catch! I too thought they were unsaved Gentiles. Actually it was a scripture I once thought was talking about those who might have never heard the Gospel. But then we have too many verses saying the Gospel will be preached throughout the world. (and, there are some verses, to me anyhow, saying that the Gospel already was taken throughout the world) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
So then, wouldn't a Jewish convert also be a "law unto themselves"?

Actually, I read it in my latest Behold the Lamb literature. You should order more; they're free. I've got them all! Not much I disagree with.
 
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Nancy

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Actually, I read it in my latest Behold the Lamb literature. You should order more; they're free. I've got them all! Not much I disagree with.

Is yours "The Everlasting Gospel of Christ"? I just got it yesterday. Only just got to read like a page and a half so I'll read the rest tonight. Left off at "Who Is The Christ"!
 

CharismaticLady

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Is yours "The Everlasting Gospel of Christ"? I just got it yesterday. Only just got to read like a page and a half so I'll read the rest tonight. Left off at "Who Is The Christ"!

No, I think it was smaller. I'll have to let you know as all of them are on my bed.
 
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