The Bodily Resurrection of Jesus

ChristisGod · Sep 10, 2020

Enoch111 said:
Since the body of Christ after His resurrection was a body of flesh and bones, you are way off base. And that is according to Holy Writ.

Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. (John 20:27)

According to this Scripture, you are faithless. A very serious problem.

AMEN !

bbyrd009 · Sep 10, 2020

ok guys just bc someone understands the resurrection diff than you does not make them faithless or lost ok

it might very well be that Jesus is recorded as resurrecting in a flesh body bc that is what we are supposed to do, too, as is even suggested in our baptismal utterings,
"buried with Him in death, raised to new life in Him"

ChristisGod · Sep 10, 2020

bbyrd009 said:
ok guys just bc someone understands the resurrection diff than you does not make them faithless or lost ok

it might very well be that Jesus is recorded as resurrecting in a flesh body bc that is what we are supposed to do, too, as is even suggested in our baptismal utterings,
"buried with Him in death, raised to new life in Him"

Paul says if Christ is not raised from the dead(bodily) then your faith is in vain and you are still in your sins.

bbyrd009 · Sep 10, 2020

Christophany said:
Paul says if Christ is not raised from the dead(bodily) then your faith is in vain and you are still in your sins.

yes, but that does not mean that you have for sure figured out what Paul meant, ok
i mean wadr you are quite likely to believe you can Quote "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" too right

like i just said, Jesus might have been shown to be raised bodily bc that is what we should be doing too!

ChristisGod · Sep 10, 2020

bbyrd009 said:
yes, but that does not mean that you have for sure figured out what Paul meant, ok
i mean wadr you are quite likely to believe you can Quote "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" too right

like i just said, Jesus might have been shown to be raised bodily bc that is what we should be doing too!

Read the thread where everything is backed up with biblical definitions from the Greek lexicons and how Paul used the words spiritual and body in their context.

DaChaser · Sep 10, 2020

Christophany said:
Without the bodily resurrection which was permanent one has no Savior and you are still dead in your sins according to the Apostle Paul. 1 Corinthians 15:17

Many deny Jesus was Resurrected and Ascended into heaven bodily( a human body with real flesh and bones) and are still dead in their sins even though they might claim to be a christian. That is an oxymoron.

Luke 24:37-43
37 But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit. 38 And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." 40 And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. 41 While they still could not believe it because of their joy and amazement, He said to them, "Have you anything here to eat?" 42 They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish; 43 and He took it and ate it before them.

John 20:24-25
24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples were saying to him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them, "Unless I see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe."

John 20:27-28
27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe." 28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

There is one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. (Tim 2:5) post ascension.

Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever.(Heb 13:5) Changeless, Immutable. Jesus was a man when He walked this earth, when He Ascended and when He will return again at His 2nd Coming.

1 Cor 15:1-8
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also.

1 Cor 15:14-18
14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. 15 Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; 17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.

2 Cor 5:1-10
For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.6 So we are always confident, even though we know that as long as we live in these bodies we are not at home with the Lord. 7 For we live by believing and not by seeing. 8 Yes, we are fully confident, and we would rather be away from these earthly bodies, for then we will be at home with the Lord. 9 So whether we are here in this body or away from this body, our goal is to please him.

In Heaven....Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

Look up the meaning of the word soma below, it always means a physical body in relation to anthropos(man).

His Body.....Phil 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

Phil 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Matt 27:52-53
52 The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

Phil 3:20-21
And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

1 Cor 15:44-45
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15 that if Christ be not risen your faith is in vain and you are still dead in your sins- an unbeliever who is lost. Those who deny the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus such as the JW's who teach that Jesus is now a spirit based being fit into this camp. They deny the resurrection.

If we look at what Paul is saying in this passage, it is that corruptible flesh and blood shall not enter the kingdom. Paul says corruptible does not inherit the incorruptible. Paul is not saying the resurrection body will not have flesh but what he declares is that the resurrected body will not have perishable flesh. Remember in Luke Jesus said see here My hands and feet, touch Me a spirit/ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have. Peter, Paul and John all agree that Jesus still had flesh well after His ascension. 1 John being the last of the books of the three Apostles declared that Jesus having come in the flesh and those who deny this are the spirit of antichrist. John makes it clear that the Incarnation was permanent. Jesus is forever both God and man. This is what Paul teaches in the whole 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians. The glorious physical bodies that we will have in the resurrection. We will have incorruptible bodies just as Jesus now has in heaven.

hope this helps !!!

Full blown Pretierists deny there will be a physical resurrection, but even some Evangelicals have wavered over to just a spiritual resurrection now!

ChristisGod · Sep 10, 2020

DaChaser said:
Full blown Pretierists deny there will be a physical resurrection, but even some Evangelicals have wavered over to just a spiritual resurrection now!

Its mind boggling to claim to be a "christian" and deny the bodily Resurrection of Jesus. Its an oxymoron.

DaChaser · Sep 10, 2020

Christophany said:
Its mind boggling to claim to be a "christian" and deny the bodily Resurrection of Jesus. Its an oxymoron.

many do that, as seen some who even teach at a seminary level call it a spiritual resurrection!

ChristisGod · Sep 10, 2020

DaChaser said:
many do that, as seen some who even teach at a seminary level call it a spiritual resurrection!

that is a sad commentary on seminary professors.

Philip James · Sep 10, 2020

bbyrd009 said:
He who seeks to save his soul will lose it
Your bargain with the grave will be annulled
No son of man may die for another's sins

Hey bbyrd,

Can you expand on this?
I'm not sure how those verses apply to discussion on Jesus rising bodily from the dead..

Peace!

Philip James · Sep 10, 2020

Davy said:
And I agree He did... rise!

But it don't mean He is in a flesh body still.

So then where is His body?

Look at my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me and see, because a ghost does not have flesh and bones as you can see I have."

Peace!

bbyrd009 · Sep 10, 2020

Christophany said:
Read the thread where everything is backed up with biblical definitions from the Greek lexicons and how Paul used the words spiritual and body in their context.

no thanks

bbyrd009 · Sep 10, 2020

Philip James said:
Hey bbyrd,

Can you expand on this?
I'm not sure how those verses apply to discussion on Jesus rising bodily from the dead..

Peace!

i already said about all i can say tbh; Jesus might have risen bodily from the dead for all i know, but believers want to save their souls and go up to heaven after they have died to literally become immortals, yeh? So imo it is at least advisable to suspect any factoid that any religious professor states as an absolute truth; seek any other explanation, even the improbable imo

CadyandZoe · Sep 11, 2020

Davy said:
Well yes Paul is talking about a spiritual body like the angels have. Even Lord Jesus in Matthew 22:30 said those of the resurrection are "as the angels of God in heaven". That doesn't mean a new flesh body, it means the "image of the heavenly" like Apostle Paul taught.

1 Cor 15:49-50
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

You guys aren't disagreeing with me on this matter. You are disagreeing with Apostle Paul and God's Holy Writ.

I have never argued that the resurrected body will be a "flesh" body. I take issue with your view that the resurrected body will be a spirit.

kcnalp · Sep 11, 2020

Davy said:
That's right, since our body is to be made like His per Apostle John, and Apostle Paul was emphatic that our resurrection body is to a "spiritual body". Anyway, I showed what the 1 Cor.15:45 verse says His body is, a quickening spirit.

Luke 24:39 (NKJV)
39 Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have."

Davy · Sep 11, 2020

Enoch111 said:
Since the body of Christ after His resurrection was a body of flesh and bones, you are way off base. And that is according to Holy Writ.

Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. (John 20:27)

According to this Scripture, you are faithless. A very serious problem.

If I am faithless, as you falsely accuse me of, then you are a devil. Take your pick.

1 Cor 15:49-50
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

You are a coward, because you refuse to address the 1 Corinthians 15:44-50 Scripture by Apostle Paul that proves the resurrection is to a "spiritual body". Likewise, Jesus' flesh body was transfigured to the heavenly type body, which has substance and can live on earth, but is eternal.

Moreover, how did Jesus exist without a flesh body back in Old Testament times? The doctrine that Jesus did not exist back in Old Testament times is a false doctrine of the devil, a doctrine the Jewish Pharisees had!

Davy · Sep 11, 2020

Christophany said:
strongs refutes your unbiblical argument.

And yet the Strong's has proved no such thing, nor can it, because the way Apostle Paul used Greek soma in 1 Corinthians 15:44 is about a spiritual body, and not a flesh body.

The Greek word soma simply means a 'body' image, outward likeness, and the Strong's says it is "used in a very wide application" (Strong's no.4983).

NT:4983
soma (so'-mah); from NT:4982; the body (as a sound whole), used in a very wide application, literally or figuratively:
KJV - bodily, body, slave.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

So like I said, you don't know what you're talking about with saying Greek soma always means a flesh body...

1 Cor 15:44-50
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body (soma). There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

Davy · Sep 11, 2020

Philip James said:
So then where is His body?

Look at my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me and see, because a ghost does not have flesh and bones as you can see I have."

Peace!

Apostle Paul showed you, all you need do is believe The Word of God. What does the following Scripture declare?

1 Cor 15:44-51
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
KJV

ChristisGod · Sep 11, 2020

Davy said:
If I am faithless, as you falsely accuse me of, then you are a devil. Take your pick.

1 Cor 15:49-50
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

You are a coward, because you refuse to address the 1 Corinthians 15:44-50 Scripture by Apostle Paul that proves the resurrection is to a "spiritual body". Likewise, Jesus' flesh body was transfigured to the heavenly type body, which has substance and can live on earth, but is eternal.

Moreover, how did Jesus exist without a flesh body back in Old Testament times? The doctrine that Jesus did not exist back in Old Testament times is a false doctrine of the devil, a doctrine the Jewish Pharisees had!

The OT is irrelevant to the Incarnation where Jesus became a MAN with a human body of flesh and bones. That is UNIQUE in History as is the Resurrection. You simply deny the truth which I have proven with your " recommended" Strongs Concordance giving you the biblical definitions of body and spiritual which prove the OP is correct and you are wrong.

What you believe is actually the very spirit of antichrist as per the Apostles. Those who deny Jesus has come in the flesh and remains in the flesh is the spirit of antichrist.

If we go back to the beginning of 1 John, we read that which we he beheld, and actually touched concerning the Word of life. That is a term expressing the very deity of Christ. Christ emanates from God as His living Word. He was with the Father in the beginning in 1:2. Jesus was One with the Father sharing the same essence with the Father in heaven with Him before the foundation of the world. John says He was manifested to us. John's language then starts out with the fact that Jesus Christ emanates from God as the very living Word of God. Jesus is the living Word of God,the One John says that was from the beginning that we heard, we saw and we touched. Jesus the Word of life was the eternal One who was with the Father prior to His Incarnation and was then manifested to us in the flesh that we could see and hear and touch according to John. Therefore, we can clearly see Jesus is the very Word of God Incarnate. He is the eternal life who became flesh. The Word who was with God, the Word who was God, was the One who John says was manifested to us. This is how we can tell the spirit of truth from the spirit of antichrist. Can you confess Jesus is God Incarnate?

1 John 4:2
By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;

2 John 7
For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

Erchomenon the present participle in 2 John 7

Alford- the present tense is timeless(pg 274 RNTC on 2 John)

Brooke- the Incarnation is not only an event in history, it is an abiding truth(pg 274 RNTC on 2 John)

Stott- the two natures manhood and Godhood were united already at His birth, never to be divided. In 1 John 4:2 and here in 2 John 7 emphasizes this permanent union of the natures in the One Person ( TNTC pages 209-210) He who denies the Incarnation is not just a deceiver and an antichrist but “the deceiver and the antichrist”. There is in this heresy a double affront: it opposes Christ and deceives men.(stott TNCT page 210)

Marshall- the use of the present and perfect tenses becomes significant if the point is that Jesus Christ had come and still existed “in flesh”. For him(John) it was axiomatic that there had been a true Incarnation, that the word became flesh and remained flesh. It is a point that receives much stress in 1 John 2:18-28;4:1-6;5:5-8. (NICNT pages 70-71)

Smalley- the present tense emphasizes the permanent union of the human and Divine natures in Jesus. Gods self disclosure in Jesus took place at a particular moment in history , but it has continuing effects in the present and into the future(Word Biblical Commentary page 317)

Nicoll- the continuous manifestation of the Incarnate Christ(Expositors Greek Testament Volume 5 page 202)

Akin- Much has been made of the fact that John uses the present tense in this Christological confession. Literally the verse reads, “Jesus Christ coming in flesh.” “Coming” is a present active participle. This stands out in remarkable contrast to the affirmation of 1 John 4:2, where the text states that “Jesus Christ has [emphasis mine] come in the flesh.” There the perfect active participle is used. The key, it seems, is to discover what John is affirming. Here in 2 John the emphasis falls on the abiding reality of the incarnation. First John 4:2 teaches that the Christ, the Father’s Son (v. 3), has come in the flesh. Second John affirms that the wedding of deity and humanity has an abiding reality (cf. 1 Tim 2:5). The ontological and essential nature of the incarnation that would receive eloquent expression one thousand years later in the writing of St. Anselm (1033–1109) in his classic Cur Deus Homo is already present in seed form in the tiny and neglected letter of 2 John.

Lenski- In 1 John 4:2 we have ἐν σαρκὶ ἐληλυθότα, the perfect participle, “as having come in flesh” (incarnate, John 1:14); here we have ἐρχόμενον ἐν σαρκί, “as coming in flesh,” although the participle is present in form it is really timeless.of Christ as "still being manifested." See the note at 1 John 3:5. In 1 John 4:2 we have the manifestation treated as a past fact by the perfect tense, ‎eleeluthota ‎"has come

Robertson- That Jesus Christ cometh in the flesh ‎Ieesoun ‎‎Christon ‎‎erchomenon ‎‎en ‎‎sarki‎. "Jesus Christ coming in the flesh." Present middle participle of ‎erchomai ‎treating the Incarnation as a continuing fact which the Docetic Gnostics flatly denied. In 1 John 4:2 we have ‎eleeluthota ‎(perfect active participle) in this same construction with ‎homologeoo‎, because there the reference is to the definite historical fact of the Incarnation.

Davy · Sep 11, 2020

kcnalp said:
Luke 24:39 (NKJV)
39 Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have."

No need for the Judaizer cowards to keep posting the false belief that the resurrection is to another flesh body, since they refuse to address the following Scripture by Apostle Paul. If they refuse Apostle Paul, then what does that mean brethren???

1 Cor 15:42-50
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

The Bodily Resurrection of Jesus

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