Perpetual virginity of Mary!

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ChristisGod

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Lk 2:30
Jesus is our salvation and He was in Her for 9 months and Lk 1:28 says The Lord is with thee! So it is true!

Two reasons why Mary is the mother of our salvation!

1: Because Jesus Christ is our salvation Lk 2:30 and Mary is His mother!

2: Because she consented to our salvation! Lk 1:38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
nothing in those passages even suggests she is responsible or contributes to a persons salvation.

nice try but that was a big swing and a miss.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Hi EG,

I believe I did get your point.
The majority of the Jewish leadership "rejected what the law showed about Jesus". That is the gist of what I said in post #165 soooo I think we are on the same page! :)

No you still did Not get My main point
Your theory is that Catholics used history, traditions and priesthood to make the same mistake the Jews did?

no my question is. If the jews did could not have The Roman church have done it also?
Scripture says "stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." The Church holds fast to traditions but you say they shouldn't do it!! o_O

The Church has a "priesthood" (Church hierarchy) but you reject hierarchy even though Scripture clearly speaks of a hierarchy in the Church. o_O

Fascinating......
The jews stood fast and held the traditions did they not?

why did they then crucify Christ. And why Jesus scold them for adding many traditions and changing others?
 

Candidus

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Hi Candidus,

The Protoevangelium of James, which is a Christian document from the 2nd Century, speaks of Mary’s virginity before giving birth, the miraculous way in which she gave birth, and her physical virginity even after giving birth.

What is the earliest Christian document YOU can provide that supports your opinion?

Historical Mary
As I already stated, that since the Bible was written, nothing endures and propagates quite like false doctrine.

What is the earliest Christian document YOU can provide that supports your opinion?

The Bible!

I can quote many writings of so-called "Christian" Gnostic heretics early on in Christianity.

Wiki tells a bit more than your failed argument from antiquity...

"Although a number of church councils condemned it as an inauthentic writing of the New Testament, this did little to diminish its popularity. Pope Innocent I condemned this Gospel of James in his third epistle ad Exuperium in 405 AD, and the so-called Gelasian Decree also excluded it as canonical around 500 AD.[23] Thomas Aquinas, in his Summa Theologiae, rejects the Protevangelium of James teaching that midwives were present at Christ's birth, and invokes Jerome as contending that the words of the canonical gospels show that Mary was both mother and midwife, that she wrapped up the child with swaddling clothes and laid him in a manger. And thus concludes, "These words prove the falseness of the apocryphal ravings."
 

theefaith

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nothing in those passages even suggests she is responsible or contributes to a persons salvation.

nice try but that was a big swing and a miss.

Did Eva contribute or consent to the fall?

a garden
a Virgin
an angel

Mary by faithful obedience brought our salvation!

our salvation is not something but somebody Jesus Christ and Mary is His mother! The blessed ever virgin mother of God!
 

Prayer Warrior

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There is only one name on savior but blessed Mary ever Virgin mother of God is the mother of our salvation!

Two reasons why Mary is the mother of our salvation!

1: Because Jesus Christ is our salvation Lk 2:30 and Mary is His mother!

2: Because she consented to our salvation! Lk 1:38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

Hi, TF, I understand your attachment to Mary; she is a very special servant of the Lord! Of course, you're free to believe whatever you want, but this romanticized view of Mary doesn't have its basis in the truth of scripture. Here are the scriptures you cited in context.

Luke 2:25-35--
And there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon; and this man was righteous and devout, looking for the consolation of Israel; and the Holy Spirit was upon him. And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord’s Christ. And he came in the Spirit into the temple; and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to carry out for Him the custom of the Law, then he took Him into his arms, and blessed God, and said,
“Now Lord, You are releasing Your bond-servant to depart in peace,
According to Your word;

For my eyes have seen Your salvation,
Which You have prepared in the presence of all peoples,
A LIGHT OF REVELATION TO THE GENTILES,

And the glory of Your people Israel.”
And His father and mother were amazed at the things which were being said about Him. And Simeon blessed them and said to Mary His mother, “Behold, this Child is appointed for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and for a sign to be opposed— and a sword will pierce even your own soul—to the end that thoughts from many hearts may be revealed.”

What Simeon was "seeing" in these verses was the gospel of salvation--"a light of revelation to the gentiles." He was obviously not speaking these words about Mary.

Luke 1:26-38--Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city in Galilee called Nazareth, to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the descendants of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. And coming in, he said to her, “Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you.” But she was very perplexed at this statement, and kept pondering what kind of salutation this was. The angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end.” Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I am a virgin?” The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God. And behold, even your relative Elizabeth has also conceived a son in her old age; and she who was called barren is now in her sixth month. For nothing will be impossible with God.” And Mary said, “Behold, the bondslave of the Lord; may it be done to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her.

The angel called Mary "favored one," and she was/is highly favored and blessed of the Lord! But look at what the verses say about Jesus. He is the "Son of the Most High." The angel tells her that "His kingdom will have no end." The main focus of this passage is Jesus Christ as the Son of God and King of kings!

Mary calls herself a "bond slave," and rightly so. She is not God, but she is His servant. And, as a servant, she submits herself to Him even though He is asking something very difficult of her. He's telling her that she will be pregnant without a husband, which was punishable by death. This showed great faith on her part!
 
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ChristisGod

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Did Eva contribute or consent to the fall?

a garden
a Virgin
an angel

Mary by faithful obedience brought our salvation!

our salvation is not something but somebody Jesus Christ and Mary is His mother! The blessed ever virgin mother of God!
what on earth are you talking about disneyland again ?
 
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Candidus

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Did Eva contribute or consent to the fall?

a garden
a Virgin
an angel

Mary by faithful obedience brought our salvation!

our salvation is not something but somebody Jesus Christ and Mary is His mother! The blessed ever virgin mother of God!

Correlation is not causation

The fact that you take away from God's hand alone in salvation, is proof enough of the heresy that you are teaching!

Mary did not birth GOD!

Mary did NOTHING to provide Atonement for our sins. Your logic only proves to me that the Pharisees, Romans and Judas were "Co-Saviors" with Jesus Christ, for without His death on the Cross by their hands, none of us could be saved!

Let's make a statue to Judas and worship at his feet too!

Mary was married and had other children. All the evasions and denials that try to justify a perpetual virginity of Mary are pure fiction, unbiblical and circular.
 
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Prayer Warrior

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Without a central authority there can be no unity of the spirit, no obedience to the faith!
God - Christ - Peter - the apostles - the apostles successors - the people

The nature of authority is hierarchy!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

(None of the so called reformers were apostles)

The Holy Spirit IS THE authority! The Holy Spirit unifies believers as we submit to HIS authority. Man's doctrine, whether Catholic or Protestant, cannot unify believers, but ONLY His Holy Spirit, who guides us into all truth, just as Jesus said He would (John 16:13). Any doctrine based on man's understanding and not on God's Word, guided by the Holy Spirit, is man's doctrine.

Eph. 2:17-22--AND HE CAME AND PREACHED PEACE TO YOU WHO WERE FAR AWAY, AND PEACE TO THOSE WHO WERE NEAR; for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

Eph. 4:1-6--Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love, being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

1 Cor 2:12-13--For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
 

theefaith

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Hi, TF, I understand your attachment to Mary; she is a very special servant of the Lord! Of course, you're free to believe whatever you want, but this romanticized view of Mary doesn't have its basis in the truth of scripture. Here are the scriptures you cited in context.

Luke 2:25-35--
And there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon; and this man was righteous and devout, looking for the consolation of Israel; and the Holy Spirit was upon him. And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord’s Christ. And he came in the Spirit into the temple; and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to carry out for Him the custom of the Law, then he took Him into his arms, and blessed God, and said,
“Now Lord, You are releasing Your bond-servant to depart in peace,
According to Your word;

For my eyes have seen Your salvation,
Which You have prepared in the presence of all peoples,
A LIGHT OF REVELATION TO THE GENTILES,

And the glory of Your people Israel.”
And His father and mother were amazed at the things which were being said about Him. And Simeon blessed them and said to Mary His mother, “Behold, this Child is appointed for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and for a sign to be opposed— and a sword will pierce even your own soul—to the end that thoughts from many hearts may be revealed.”

What Simeon was "seeing" in these verses was the gospel of salvation--"a light of revelation to the gentiles." He was obviously not speaking these words about Mary.

Luke 1:26-38--Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city in Galilee called Nazareth, to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the descendants of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. And coming in, he said to her, “Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you.” But she was very perplexed at this statement, and kept pondering what kind of salutation this was. The angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end.” Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I am a virgin?” The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God. And behold, even your relative Elizabeth has also conceived a son in her old age; and she who was called barren is now in her sixth month. For nothing will be impossible with God.” And Mary said, “Behold, the bondslave of the Lord; may it be done to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her.

The angel called Mary "favored one," and she was/is highly favored and blessed of the Lord! But look at what the verses say about Jesus. He is the "Son of the Most High." The angel tells her that "His kingdom will have no end." The main focus of this passage is Jesus Christ as the Son of God and King of kings!

Mary calls herself a "bond slave," and rightly so. She is not God, but she is His servant. And, as a servant, she submits herself to Him even though He is asking something very difficult of her. He's telling her that she will be pregnant without a husband, which was punishable by death. This showed great faith on her part!

we cannot believe what ever we want!
We can only believe divine revelation!
Eph 4:5
Jude 1:3

Jesus is our salvation? Yes
Mary is His mother? Yes
Mother of our savior and salvation!
Why can’t you see she found the grace of salvation lost by Adam? Lk 1:28
Mary found favor.
Mary is blessed cod she consented and was faithful but Lk 1:28 says she is blessed even before that happened
Why is she herself blessed?
The only answer is she was conceived in her mother’s womb immaculate!
Lk 1:49 He that is mighty (God) has done great things (plural not only the miraculous conception of Jesus by the HS) what else is there accept the immaculate conception?
Gen 3:15 enmity none of satans works are found in Her!
 

theefaith

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Perpetual Virginity of Mary!

Mary conceived "without any detriment to her virginity, which remained inviolate even after his birth" (Council of the Lateran, 649)

Perpetual Virginity of Mary!

The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!

And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!

Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)

Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”

Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.

(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)

Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
(The Bible says only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary)

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(A son singular) (does James save his people?)

Lk 1:28 Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee!

Blessed art thou amongst all women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
(The fruit of Her womb is blessed and holy)

Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
(A son, singular)

Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s a vow of perpetual virginity, She refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God and mother of our savior if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Her son is God)

Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!

First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!

Brothers and sisters of Jesus?

They are not the children of Mary!

Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)

James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3

In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.

Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..

Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.

Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!

Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!
 

theefaith

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The Holy Spirit IS THE authority! The Holy Spirit unifies believers as we submit to HIS authority. Man's doctrine, whether Catholic or Protestant, cannot unify believers, but ONLY His Holy Spirit, who guides us into all truth, just as Jesus said He would (John 16:13). Any doctrine based on man's understanding and not on God's Word, guided by the Holy Spirit, is man's doctrine.

Eph. 2:17-22--AND HE CAME AND PREACHED PEACE TO YOU WHO WERE FAR AWAY, AND PEACE TO THOSE WHO WERE NEAR; for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

Eph. 4:1-6--Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love, being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

1 Cor 2:12-13--For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

there are thousands of denominations or sects that make that claim all teach differently

there must be central authority and obedience to the faith revealed by God Jude 1:3 eph 4:5
Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
 

Candidus

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Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)
Because after she had Jesus, she was no longer a virgin when she had another son!

Thanks for proving too much!
 

Prayer Warrior

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we cannot believe what ever we want!
We can only believe divine revelation!
Eph 4:5
Jude 1:3

Jesus is our salvation? Yes
Mary is His mother? Yes
Mother of our savior and salvation!
Why can’t you see she found the grace of salvation lost by Adam? Lk 1:28
Mary found favor.
Mary is blessed cod she consented and was faithful but Lk 1:28 says she is blessed even before that happened
Why is she herself blessed?
The only answer is she was conceived in her mother’s womb immaculate!
Lk 1:49 He that is mighty (God) has done great things (plural not only the miraculous conception of Jesus by the HS) what else is there accept the immaculate conception?
Gen 3:15 enmity none of satans works are found in Her!

I don't see ANYTHING in scripture about the "mother of our salvation." I don't see anything about "the immaculate conception." I don't see these concepts mentioned or taught in scripture. These ideas have their basis in man's doctrine, not God's. I cannot live by man's doctrine because there is no life or power in it. Man's doctrine cannot set us free, but if we if we continue in JESUS' Word, then we will know the truth, and the truth will make us free! (John 8:31-32) Jesus did not tell us to continue in Mary's word, but in His Word. He is my Savior and Redeemer, my Prince and King, my Lord and God! In HIM I live and move and have my being! (Acts 17:28) THAT I MAY KNOW HIM!

But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. (Phil 3:7-11)
 
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amigo de christo

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You can't be "convinced" of anything if you refuse to be enlightened. Look again at post #148 and answer the simple question; try not to run so fast.
Notice the statment . it says ALL members should be treated with upmost respect and courteously .
It dont say a word about speaking truth .
as i did .
YET i never attacked one member . can you say the same . WHEN you called me what YOU DID .
HYPROCRISY . you do what you claim I DID . may all flee that pope . he is dangerous .
But notice i dont attack one soul here . YOU DID . Hyprocrisy . you i wont heed . You cant even keep your own rules . DO as you will But that is on you .
 
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