Where do aborted babies go?

Earburner · Sep 19, 2020

Giuliano said:
Let me look that passage up.

1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

That passage does not mention babies specifically; but it says Jesus preached to "spirits in prison" -- the spirits of those who were disobedient in the days of Noah. Your next post seems to indicate you think the "dead" could not be preached to. Do I misunderstand you?

You correctly understand what I am saying.
All one must do, is look at the verse you just quoted frm the KJV.
1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Do you see something missing that will tell more about verses 19-20?
Yes! See verse [18] For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened
by the Spirit:
Now, lets put that in succession with 19.
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Q. When did Jesus preach unto the spirits in prison?
A. [20] When once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing,...

Now, most Christians have a very wrong understanding about that, because they totally misunderstand what
KJV Genesis 2:7 is actually saying about man, and what "soul" is.

Truther · Sep 19, 2020

Giuliano said:
It's stopping them from becoming sinners -- then they don't need converting.

"Kill em all, let God sort em out"?

Marymog · Sep 19, 2020

Giuliano said:
I know the answer to the first question. Do you?

The first question you posed was this: “Your church teaches now about a baby being a person at conception. How old is that idea?”

Non-Scriptural writings showing that The Church was against abortion because it believed that the fetus was a human is articulated in 70AD with The Didache! Soooo “that idea” is based on Scripture and has been accepted, in non-canonical form for 1,950 years.

I’m curious: What is your “answer” to that question?

Marymog · Sep 19, 2020

Giuliano said:
I'm also not going to read the entire Catechism. There's no clear teaching on it anyway. On one hand, Catholic theologians want to insist on infants being baptized -- you can't go to Heaven if you don't have original sin removed by baptism. On the other hand, they don't want to say aborted babies go to hell.

I believe that is a good general summary of The Church’s teaching.

Since Scripture doesn’t really tell us what happens to the souls of un-born babies how can we really know what happens to the souls of unborn babies? The Church suggest that thru Grace they probably go to heaven.

What does your church teach on this matter?

Marymog · Sep 19, 2020

Spurgeon's Girl said:
I don't believe in infant baptism. There is no scripture that supports it.

Baptism is equated to circumcission. When does circumcission occur?

Truther · Sep 19, 2020

Marymog said:
Baptism is equated to circumcission. When does circumcission occur?

No, water baptism is the replacement of circumcision.

This circumcision of the heart occurs on adults, not newborns.

Giuliano · Sep 19, 2020

Marymog said:
The first question you posed was this: “Your church teaches now about a baby being a person at conception. How old is that idea?”

Non-Scriptural writings showing that The Church was against abortion because it believed that the fetus was a human is articulated in 70AD with The Didache! Soooo “that idea” is based on Scripture and has been accepted, in non-canonical form for 1,950 years.

The Didache says no such thing. It prohibits abortion and infanticide, but it doesn't say a fetus is a human being, becoming so at conception. If that were so and the Didache was considered authoritative, why did Augustine waffle on the subject of the resurrection of such aborted fetuses?

History of abortion - Wikipedia

The early Christian work called the Didache (before 100 CE) says: "do not murder a child by abortion or kill a new-born infant."[58] Tertullian, a 2nd- and 3rd-century Christian theologian argued that abortion should be performed only in cases in which abnormal positioning of the fetus in the womb would endanger the life of the pregnant woman. Saint Augustine, in Enchiridion, makes passing mention of surgical procedures being performed to remove fetuses which have died in utero.[59]

Saint Augustine believed that abortion of a fetus animatus, a fetus with human limbs and shape, was murder. However, his beliefs on earlier-stage abortion were similar to Aristotle's,[60] though he could neither deny nor affirm whether such partially formed fetuses would be resurrected as full people at the time of the Second Coming.[61]

"Now who is there that is not rather disposed to think that unformed abortions perish, like seeds that have never fructified?"[59]
"And therefore the following question may be very carefully inquired into and discussed by learned men, though I do not know whether it is in man's power to resolve it: At what time the infant begins to live in the womb: whether life exists in a latent form before it manifests itself in the motions of the living being. To deny that the young who are cut out limb by limb from the womb, lest if they were left there dead the mother should die too, have never been alive, seems too audacious."[62]

The Leges Henrici Primi, written c. 1115, treated pre-quickening abortion as a misdemeanor, and post-quickening abortion as carrying a lesser penalty than homicide.[63] "Quickening", a term often used interchangeably with "ensoulment" or "animation", was associated with the first movement of the fetus in utero. This movement is generally felt by women sometime in the third to fifth month of pregnancy. Midwives who performed abortions were accused of committing witchcraft in Malleus Maleficarum (The Hammer of Witches), published in 1487 as a witch-hunting manual in Germany.

I’m curious: What is your “answer” to that question?

I haven't really given it.

Since Scripture doesn’t really tell us what happens to the souls of un-born babies how can we really know what happens to the souls of unborn babies? The Church suggest that thru Grace they probably go to heaven.

If they go to Heaven, that would mean the idea of original sin isn't true.

What does your church teach on this matter?

I no longer identify with any church.

Giuliano · Sep 19, 2020

Earburner said:
You correctly understand what I am saying.
All one must do, is look at the verse you just quoted frm the KJV.
1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Do you see something missing that will tell more about verses 19-20?
Yes! See verse [18] For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened
by the Spirit:
Now, lets put that in succession with 19.
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Q. When did Jesus preach unto the spirits in prison?
A. [20] When once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing,...

Now, most Christians have a very wrong understanding about that, because they totally misunderstand what
KJV Genesis 2:7 is actually saying about man, and what "soul" is.

That doesn't make sense. You have Jesus preaching to them before the Flood. They weren't in prison then.

Giuliano · Sep 19, 2020

Truther said:
"Kill em all, let God sort em out"?

I believe we will all be judged by our works. No one is going to Heaven or hell for eternity because someone else kills him.

Marymog · Sep 19, 2020

Truther said:
No, water baptism is the replacement of circumcision.

Looks like you agree with The Church. Are you Catholic also?

Marymog · Sep 19, 2020

Truther said:
This circumcision of the heart occurs on adults, not newborns.

True, scripture does speak of "circumcision of the heart".

Colossians 2:11-14 talks of removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision. Is that "flesh" the heart?

Truther · Sep 19, 2020

Marymog said:
Looks like you agree with The Church. Are you Catholic also?

No, I am Pentecostal(Apostolic).

Truther · Sep 19, 2020

Marymog said:
True, scripture does speak of "circumcision of the heart".

Colossians 2:11-14 talks of removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision. Is that "flesh" the heart?

I would agree.

But only for adults.

Infants need not go under God's scalpel.

Marymog · Sep 19, 2020

Truther said:
Infants need not go under God's scalpel.

In the Old Testament, if a man wanted to become a Jew, he had to believe in the God of Israel and be circumcised. In the New Testament, if one wants to become a Christian, one must believe in God and Jesus and be water baptized.

In the Old Testament, those born into Jewish households could be circumcised in anticipation of the Jewish faith in which they would be raised. Thus, in the New Testament, those born in Christian households can be baptized in anticipation of the Christian faith in which they will be raised. The pattern is the same.

The new (water baptism) replaces the old (circumcision). The new "scalpel" is water.

Truther · Sep 19, 2020

Marymog said:
In the Old Testament, if a man wanted to become a Jew, he had to believe in the God of Israel and be circumcised. In the New Testament, if one wants to become a Christian, one must believe in God and Jesus and be water baptized.

In the Old Testament, those born into Jewish households could be circumcised in anticipation of the Jewish faith in which they would be raised. Thus, in the New Testament, those born in Christian households can be baptized in anticipation of the Christian faith in which they will be raised. The pattern is the same.

The new (water baptism) replaces the old (circumcision).

Respectfully...You don't get it.

The divine surgery is on the sinners heart, not the innocent heart.

Marymog · Sep 19, 2020

Truther said:
Respectfully...You don't get it.

The divine surgery is on the sinners heart, not the innocent heart.

Respectfully... why is it that I (The Church) don't get it and the Protestants that disagree with you on this matter don't get it but YOU do get it??? How does that make sense? Is it because YOU are always right?

All you Protestants agree that The Church is wrong on many things but you can't agree on everything that The Church is wrong on. Sooooo I agree with the Protestants that agree with The Church. You agree with the Protestants that disagree with The Church.

Keeping it real...Mary

Earburner · Sep 19, 2020

Giuliano said:
That doesn't make sense. You have Jesus preaching to them before the Flood. They weren't in prison then.

JEsus is eternal, before and after the cross. The truthful answer is literally staring you in the face in 2 Peter 3:18-20.

If you can't see it, then it is due to the preconceived LIE of what has been fed to Christians for centuries. See Genesis 2:7,
and learn that Adam "became a living soul". He didn't get one!!
Apart from Jesus, no one has eternal existence of any kind!

Subconsciously, all christians filter almost all of their biblical knowledge through Genesis 2:7, not knowing that most of them have started out by BELIEVING A LIE!

"There can always be more than one lie, but there can never be more than one truth"- Earburner.

Earburner · Sep 19, 2020

Marymog said:
Respectfully... why is it that I (The Church) don't get it and the Protestants that disagree with you on this matter don't get it but YOU do get it??? How does that make sense? Is it because YOU are always right?

All you Protestants agree that The Church is wrong on many things but you can't agree on everything that The Church is wrong on. Sooooo I agree with the Protestants that agree with The Church. You agree with the Protestants that disagree with The Church.

Keeping it real...Mary

The bottom line, whether a child is born, then dies, or is aborted before birth, is this:
God either deposits His Holy Spirit within them, or He does not!
Romans 8:8-9
"Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

Phoneman777 · Sep 19, 2020

Giuliano said:
What do you think happens to babies if they are aborted?

Can you believe God would send innocent babies to hell? That doesn't seem right to me.

If they go to Heaven, think about it. If they were born, they could become terrible sinners and wind up in hell. If someone killed them first, they'd go to Heaven. So can that be right? Could you be doing a baby a favor by aborting it and sending it to Heaven? That doesn't seem right to me either.

I don't have to "think" because the Bible is clear: the dead rest in the grave and await the Resurrection. It seems to me that babies, having died in innocence, will come up from their graves in the First Resurrection.

It is my hope that their mothers will have given their lives over to Jesus so that they can be there to take these little ones in their arms when the come up in the Resurrection and love and care for them with perfect agape motherly love...after all, does not the OT say that they "shall grow up as calves of the stall"? Yes, I think so. Imagine a repentant, grief stricken, regretful mother who aborted her baby having a second chance to love and nurture that same baby she previously discarded? God is so amazingly good and I wish everyone would try to see with the eye of faith just how immeasurable His goodness is.

Phoneman777 · Sep 19, 2020

marksman said:
You need to rephrase your question because the bodies of aborted babies go into an incinerator to be burnt or they are sold off by planned parenthood for medical research.

Too bad the Leftist thugs that now fill the streets of Democrat hell holes aren't burning down PP centers. Oh yes, those are left untouched, while hard working entrepreneurs get victimized.

Where do aborted babies go?

Where do you think aborted babies go?

Heaven

Hell

Other

Don't know

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