Where do aborted babies go?

Cooper said:

How come? It's scriptural.

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You are calling the God of Israel, the devil.

quietthinker said:

SG...it was me who mentioned 'barrow'... post #201
A barrow is something you push or carry....it's used as a metaphor and in this context for what you primarily carry in your message.
In your case right from the outset its predestination.....subsequently my questions.

Please ask if you don't know.

By the way, I think bbyrd009 has his own dictionary......it's a worry keeping up but I'm sure he'll clarify if you get on his case.

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"By the way, I think bbyrd009 has his own dictionary......it's a worry keeping up but I'm sure he'll clarify if you get on his case."

Lol...I call it "Bbyrdspeak"

Giuliano said:

I would not assume everyone is wicked and estranged from the womb. That says "the wicked" are. Should we believe God wants the whole human race wiped out? If we interpret "the wicked" to mean everyone, we would have to believe God wants everyone dead.

Psalm 104:35 Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the Lord, O my soul. Praise ye the Lord.

Why did God love Jacob and hate Esau before they were born? Why was one elect and the other not? Circumcision didn't have a thing to do with that.

What the Bible does say is that God does not punish children for the sins of their parents.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

I would say baptism does exist in the Old Testament. The Jews say Pharaoh's daughter was going to the Nile to be baptized. Maybe you can't believe that; but we also read that Israel was baptized in the sea and in the cloud. I infer as well that the whole earth was baptized by the Flood of Noah.

1 Corinthians 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

The elect are not wicked from the womb.

Psalm 22:9 But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.
10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

Psalm 139:13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.

The elect are "known" by God before they are born -- the non-elect are not known by God in that way. "Know" in "foreknow" means "to have a relationship" not "know about" as some suppose. The elect are "formed in the womb" by God.

Isaiah 42:2 Thus saith the Lord that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.

Isaiah 49:5 And now, saith the Lord that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the Lord, and my God shall be my strength.

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Great verses. Your point regarding 'the wicked' is well taken, except for one thing. It proves my point regarding the doctrine of election.

Did you notice that the verses in Isaiah don't mention Esau? Romans 9 clears that right up. It's about corporate and individual election. Corporate Election (Dan Wallace) - Credo House Ministries

On to Psalm 22, proves my point again. The Apostle Paul says the elect were chosen before the foundation of the world and that they were predestined.

Jesus Himself discriminates between those the Father draws and those He does not.

Your take on foreknowledge is instructive, but it's a conclusion, not a biblical usage.

The Greek work G4267

Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. to have knowledge before hand
   
2. to foreknow
   
   1. of those whom God elected to salvation
      
3. to predestinate
   

And then there is Roman 5:12
12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—

It's a blessing to have relevant dialogue. Thanks so much.

God Bless.

CharismaticLady said:

The Children of Israel were over four hundred years after Abraham. Who do you think commanded Israel to kill those nations? And why?

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Nephilim ...? Had God allowed them to continue "breeding", more evil would be unleashed on the human race...JMO.

Nancy said:

Nephilim ...? Had God allowed them to continue "breeding", more evil would be unleashed on the human race...JMO.

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Yes, they were Nephilim. That is what Goliath was.

CharismaticLady said:

Yes, they were Nephilim. That is what Goliath was.

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Yes, the "giants"! I know this is quite the issue with agnostics and atheists, trying to make God a monster when He wiped them out because of His mercy and justness.

Nancy said:

Yes, the "giants"! I know this is quite the issue with agnostics and atheists, trying to make God a monster when He wiped them out because of His mercy and justness.

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Exactly! But they disobeyed God and did not wipe them out, thus all of Israel's troubles today.

CharismaticLady said:

Exactly! But they disobeyed God and did not wipe them out, thus all of Israel's troubles today.

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Ah yes, I forgot about that part...Israel suffered immensely! They did do all the hard work, really. Have we learned from their mistakes? Their grumbling and disobedience...

CharismaticLady said:

You are calling the God of Israel, the devil.

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I spent about three years talking to a Jew on the internet and he regularly told me the God of the Jews was the God of no other nation. Well my God is the Saviour of the world and not one nation, so that rules out the God of the Jews to my mind. Jesus was more certain and forthright when he spelled out who the God of the Jews was in John 8:44. We can see it clearly in the Old Testament, laid out before us in black and white.
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CharismaticLady said:

Exactly! But they disobeyed God and did not wipe them out, thus all of Israel's troubles today.

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God can send fire and brimstone and other calamities. He does not need our help, we will all be fighting in the street if we continue like this, some people do, but followers of Jesus, never. We do not need that sort of talk. How about keeping on the straight and narrow path so as not to loose our salvation.
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Marymog said:

Thank you.

You believe the man Spurgeon teaching is sound. I believe the men of The Churches teaching is sound.

You can go to this website for questions regarding my faith: Catechism of the Catholic Church

Where can I go for questions regarding your faith? CARM.org?

You say water doesn’t cleanse us. Scripture says different (Acts 22:16). Soooooo....What are you waiting for Spurgeon follower? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away!

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I have a copy of the Catholic Catechism. Thankyouverymuch.

If you want to know more about my faith, I suggest a book known as the Holy Bible. You can also learn more from Matt Slick at CARM. I believe the forums are down, but the teachings are still there. You can also learn from John MacArthur, John Piper, Jeff Durbin, James White, Dan Wallace, Charles Spurgeon, Jonathan Edwards, John Newton, R. Albert Mohler, Voddie Baucham, John Calvin, Cornelius Van Til, John Bunyan, J.I Packer, Matthew Henry.

Acts 22:16, has a context, you should read it. For Paul it meant having obedience to the God. Jesus had already shed his blood. Surely you don't think that mere water is salvific, or do you? If Jesus had not shed His blood, what good would H2O do? Read up on the Damascus Road. It's also instructive to understand that the author of Acts is Luke.

CharismaticLady said:

Exactly! But they disobeyed God and did not wipe them out, thus all of Israel's troubles today.

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They should not have been killing anybody, if they had been faithful, God would have led them peacefully into the promised land, the same as he led them out of Egypt. That was the plan. But they were disobedient. In other words, they were the bad guys killing their own cousins. They followed other gods, so God allowed them to be killed instead. That's God's justice for you.

When are we going to see some repentance instead of people following the god of this world.

Spurgeon's Girl said:

I have a copy of the Catholic Catechism. Thankyouverymuch.

If you want to know more about my faith, I suggest a book known as the Holy Bible. You can also learn more from Matt Slick at CARM. I believe the forums are down, but the teachings are still there. You can also learn from John MacArthur, John Piper, Jeff Durbin, James White, Dan Wallace, Charles Spurgeon, Jonathan Edwards, John Newton, R. Albert Mohler, Voddie Baucham, John Calvin, Cornelius Van Til, John Bunyan, J.I Packer, Matthew Henry.

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Hi,

Matt Slick, John MacArthur, John Piper, Jeff Durbin, James White, Dan Wallace, Charles Spurgeon, Jonathan Edwards, John Newton, R. Albert Mohler, Voddie Baucham, John Calvin, Cornelius Van Til, John Bunyan, J.I Packer and Matthew Henry all disagree with each other in their interpretation of Scripture and I am sure you disagree with all of them on various passage interpretations.

So what "your faith" really comes down to is how YOU interpret Scripture and what YOU believe to be true???

Curious Mary

Spurgeon's Girl said:

Acts 22:16, has a context, you should read it. For Paul it meant having obedience to the God. Jesus had already shed his blood. Surely you don't think that mere water is salvific, or do you? If Jesus had not shed His blood, what good would H2O do? Read up on the Damascus Road. It's also instructive to understand that the author of Acts is Luke.

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I have read it in context. Have you?

Lets put Acts into context:


Acts 1:5
for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”


Acts 2:38
Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


Acts 2:41
So those who welcomed his message were baptized, and that day about three thousand persons were added.


Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip, who was proclaiming the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.


Acts 8:13
Even Simon himself believed. After being baptized, he stayed constantly with Philip and was amazed when he saw the signs and great miracles that took place.


Acts 8:16
for as yet the Spirit had not come upon any of them; they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 8:36
As they were going along the road, they came to some water; and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water! What is to prevent me from being baptized?”


Acts 8:38
He commanded the chariot to stop, and both of them, Philip and the eunuch, went down into the water, and Philip baptized him.


Acts 9:18
And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and his sight was restored. Then he got up and was baptized,

Acts 10:47
“Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”


Acts 10:48
So he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they invited him to stay for several days.


Acts 11:16
And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’


Acts 16:15
When she and her household were baptized, she urged us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come and stay at my home.” And she prevailed upon us.


Acts 16:33
At the same hour of the night he took them and washed their wounds; then he and his entire family were baptized without delay.


Acts 18:8
Crispus, the official of the synagogue, became a believer in the Lord, together with all his household; and many of the Corinthians who heard Paul became believers and were baptized.


Acts 19:3
Then he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They answered, “Into John’s baptism.”


Acts 19:4
Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, in Jesus.”


Acts 19:5
On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 22:16 And now why do you delay? Get up, be baptized, and have your sins washed away, calling on his name.’

Sooooo the beginning of Acts starts with water baptism. The middle of Acts talks about water baptism and at the end of Acts it talks about baptism washing away our sins but your theory is that mere water is NOT salvific????


Bible Study Mary

Nancy said:

Yes, the "giants"! I know this is quite the issue with agnostics and atheists, trying to make God a monster when He wiped them out because of His mercy and justness.

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You might convert the agnostics and atheists if you point out the creator would never have killed his created. That would be like a mother killing her child.

I know it happens very occasionally in real life, but with God, never.

The god of this world? Yes frequently. By their fruits are they known.

Cooper said:

You might convert the agnostics and atheists if you point out the creator would never have killed his created. That would be like a mother killing her child.

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"...the creator would never have killed his created."

Oh, but He did, didn't He? Remember the flood?

Nancy said:

"...the creator would never have killed his created."

Oh, but He did, didn't He? Remember the flood?

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Then God is being very active killing people in volcanic eruptions, forest fires, tsunami, Covid 19, global warming etc. The superstitious ancients put everything down to God, but the killing of nation by nation is undeniably human.

What did President Bush say when he went into Iraq "God told me." Like heck he did and Moses said the same. And then the soldiers gave the loot to the LORD. Come on, use your common sense.

Cooper said:

They should not have been killing anybody, if they had been faithful, God would have led them peacefully into the promised land, the same as he led them out of Egypt. That was the plan. But they were disobedient. In other words, they were the bad guys killing their own cousins. They followed other gods, so God allowed them to be killed instead. That's God's justice for you.

When are we going to see some repentance instead of people following the god of this world.

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So if the Children of Israel were not God's people, then why write about them throughout the Old Testament. After all Jesus came to them for the fall or rise of many in Israel. No other nation is mentioned.

CharismaticLady said:

So if the Children of Israel were not God's people, then why write about them throughout the Old Testament. After all Jesus came to them for the fall or rise of many in Israel. No other nation is mentioned.

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They ARE Gods children, but they are disobedient, and neither should we take our lead from them. We know that from the remnant. They always have been disobedient. We should be evangelizing them and leading them to Christ. Except I know it is an impossible task.

marksman said:

You need to rephrase your question because the bodies of aborted babies go into an incinerator to be burnt or they are sold off by planned parenthood for medical research.

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I would agree that baby lives matter at 21 weeks - as per the graphic- as this is the time when I think it most likely that a soul is imparted.
Prior to that point - not so much.

The question here however is not only about when the soul lands but where it came from prior to landing .. and where it goes after.

So 3 questions

1) . .. at what point during the process of creation of the human structure the soul will inhabit that structure ... my guess is around 21 weeks .. the time when cognition and sentience arrives ... as the wiring of the brain nears completion - the brain lights up like an xmas Tree .. and I like Xmas .. so .. seems a good point

2) where did it come from prior ? answered in 3)

3) where dies it go after. My two answers to the forum ballot are A) Other B) Heaven

Here we have a number of choices depending on what one things heaven is .. but for this argument let us assume that heaven is some nice place where the soul goes to inhabit for eternity.

But - what if - while in heaven - I want to go on a vacation - return to some planet and live another life.

God grants me the pass – and I go to live another life. The condition being however – that while living the other life – you will not remember your past life.

After that life is done – you will bounce back to heaven again – do your consigned allotment of Hail Mary’s and Ahmen’s .. and then go on another vacation.

So clearly both questions are now answered .. and my hope is that your concerns for this - as it turns out not so innocent souls vacation plans - are allayed - at least somewhat.