God is Not the Author of Confusion

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Eternally Grateful

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The confusion of creation explained.

Gen 1 is about the creation of all things by God. It is explained to be done in six days. This everyone agrees, but the debate comes here is the length of those six days. Some say six 24 hour days. Others believe the days to be thousands of years. This, for the one who believes 24 hour days, creates confusion. That is because animal and the bones of man have been found to be many thousands of years old.

Let us not be confused, the time frame is not really important, in one respect, if we just believe that God created all things. The real confusion comes because most believe that the sixth day refers to the man named Adam, not mankind. How could this line of thinking cause confusion?

1. God doesn’t give a name to mankind, just that they were to go into all the world.

2. Gen 2 is not a repeat of Gen 1, just not in the same order.

Let us try to clear up these two points.

In Gen 1, it speaks of creation but in Gen 2 it speaks of forming. One should not think these two words are interchangeable because God intended for us to be able to understand and avoid confusion.

a. Creation is to make something from nothing.

b. Forming is to make something from something else.


In Gen 1 it points out that ‘God’ created man. In Gen 2 it points out that ‘LORD God’ formed Adam from the earth.

a. Since ‘God’ is a plurality it does not have the same meaning as ‘LORD God’. I am not saying there are two different God’s , as we think of God, just that the meanings change.

b. How would a Jewish Rabbi explain the difference? He would tell you that there are many Gods (spirits} but only one ‘LORD God’.

So here is where we are at, God created man on the sixth day and in the seventh day LORD God formed Adam from the earth and Eve from Adam’s rib. May I also point out that on the seventh day LORD God also formed the animals from the field (domestic animals).

In conclusion:


Gen 1 is about the creation of all things.

Gen 2 is about covenant creation. This is the time LORD God made a covenant with Adam and his descendants. Most figure that the time of the covenant until now has been around 7000 years. But from the time God created all things, one can not conclude this without causing:

CONFUSION!

1 Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion
Confusion comes when you make the time between evening and morning more than 24 hours, it means the rotation of the earth was minimal, it means there would be little to no gravity.
As for age of anything, we can not properly use science to age anything past the flood. Because no one was alive to test the rate of decay or anything before the flood rapidly changed everything on the earth,
 
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Eternally Grateful

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We are still in the 7th day.
2 Peter 3:8 But forget not this one thing, beloved, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
In the bible, if it just says "a thousand" it is a unspecified length of time. If it says one thousand that is what it is. So, in the versa above it is a unknown number of years.
So many people use this verse, where peter is explaining what time is like to God compared to us. Where he says a day is LIKE.. he did not say a day was.

people need to stop taking peter out of context to support their belief system
 

Eternally Grateful

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I appreciate your knowledge, but Adam and Eve were not told to go and replenish the earth.
There is no mention of domestic animals in Gen 1.
No mention of taking a rib to form woman.
No mention of man naming domestic animals in Gen 1.

Why is it that someone as knowledgeable as you can not grasp the facts. God allowed the angels to make suggestions on creating of mankind. That is why there are different races, certainly not by changes over the years. There was none of this in Gen 2.
Adam and Eve, like it or not, were his chosen people and that is still true today. He has not forsaken them and they will come back.

These things are not salvation issues, so accept them for what they are. Knowledge of God and his people.
Moses uses a typical hebrew writing form

he gives a basic account (Gen 1)
Then he gives a deeper more detailed account (Gen 2)

It’s really no different than dan 2 vs daniel 7. Where the archangel gives a basic amount of the future gentile kingdoms is 2 then a more tailed account in seven, then goes even deeper later.
 
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Eternally Grateful

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It is confusing to think that God put some bones of animals in the dirt just to confuse us. Most bible believers think that these bones are not as old as scientist say. That is confusing, if they are not that old why would God make them to look that old?

Read Job for he is writing about the earlier age, before Adam and Eve.
He did not

the confusion comes from science trying to Determin when they got there and how old

yet they do it by wanting to take God out, the answer is easy, the flood. All,fossils were formed by the flood. Not millions of years of evolution
 

Eternally Grateful

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Many scientists make inaccurate assumptions and accept the answers because they seemingly conform to their desire to deny God, and His judgments.

Dragon bones are not in the ground to confuse us, any more than cat bones are. Animals die. Those that died during normal times are for the most part predated and decayed and scattered and gone. These that die during a cataclysm like the Deluge end up quickly buried in sediments that promote fossilization. Fossilization can happen in a matter of months in ideal conditions.

They don't look old, they look mineralized.

And if you want to take carbon dating, you have to account for things like the bottom of the Grand Canyon being so less old than the top, and freshly formed rocks from Mount St. Helen to be millions of years old.

I think what has happened is that the earth was carved up by the torrents of water, which also buried vast numbers of animals and amounts of vegetation, which turned into the fossils and coal we see today. But rather than accept that God flooded the earth, and has promised fire, they find the way to pretend this is all just normal process, and the reason we don't see it happening now is that it takes so darned long!

But it doesn't. And God did judge, and He will again.

Much love!
Amen, the flood answers everything

it’s odd, peter warned us of these days where people forget the flood.

2 peter 3: knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water.

carbon dating and other scientific age based theories are based on the fact all things continue as they were since the begining
 
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marks

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God does not create destruction. In the case of the earth, it became void and without form because of the total wickedness of the first earth. You do know that God has given earth to the devil, don't you? He still has it today! At the end of this age He will take it away from him.

Exodus 9:29 "And Moses said unto him, As soon as I am gone out of the city, I will spread abroad my hands unto the Lord; and the thunder shall cease, neither shall there be any more hail; that thou mayest know how that the earth is the Lord's."

Deuteronomy 10:14 "Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the Lord's thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is."

Psalm 24:1 "The earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein."

1 Corinthians 10
25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.
27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
28 But if any man say unto you, this is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:

The earth, and everything in it, is God's. He never gave it up to anyone.

Much love!
 

Davy

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Of course "the earth existed without form" because God hadn't separated the waters yet, and hadn't set the earth's foundations. Genesis records a sequence to how God created everything, and this is simply part of that sequence.

Myself, I find no evidence in either the Bible or the earth that there was a previous creation, though I know many people think that.

Much love!


The reality is that in the Hebrew, "without form and void" doesn't mean how men's traditions have understood it.

The Hebrew tohuw ("without form") is used in the OT in a majority of cases to mean something that was good and then went bad. It suggests something that previously existed in a good condition. In a state of vanity is one of the ideas translated in the KJV it refers to, like Isaiah 45:18. Jeremiah 4:23-28 is a better example, because the KJV translators made it again as "without form", but it is clearly about a previous state of the earth that was destroyed because of God's anger.

One of the most revealing evidences in God's Word though is from Romans 8 by Apostle Paul:

Rom 8:18-25
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.


The word "creature" is Greek ktisis in all of these verses, including the KJV word "creation". That's what it means, God's creation.


20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him Who hath subjected the same in hope,


The creation ("creature") was made subject to vanity. When was that event? We were shown back in Jeremiah 4:23-28...

Jer 4:22-28
22 For My people is foolish, they have not known Me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

There's that same idea from Genesis 1:2 about the state of the earth in desolation. This isn't about the forming of the earth, it's about the earth laying in a state of destruction...

24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by His fierce anger.

All the mountains and hills trembled? All the birds of heaven fled? And the fruitful place became a wilderness? and all the cities were broken down by God's fierce anger? That was not about the creation, that was about God placing His creation of Genesis 1:1 into 'vanity', which is what Paul is pointing to in Rom.8.

27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
KJV

Not a full end means though God placed His creation in a state of vanity, He still left some elements that He originally created. But for this reason, this placing of His creation in vanity, the earth would mourn, and the heavens above be black.

Do you know what that means about the earth mourning? and the heavens above being black? What do rain clouds look like when they are full of water? They turn dark, especially their undersides. Did you know the main reason for today's violent weather systems is the holes in the cloud atmosphere around the earth? the sun's heat beads down on the earth and the hot air from that rises up to meet cold air in the sky, and it gets the winds swirling around, and causes waters on the earth to evaporate up into the sky. This produces the earth's storms today. Most think this is the way God originally made His creation, but it's not. This is the way He put His creation into bondage of vanity, and that is what Paul is talking about.



Rom.8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.


The creation for this world is in a state of "bondage of corruption" which God placed it in. So even the creation seeks a release from that bondage along with the future liberty of the children of God. This is pointing directly the existence of a previous world prior to this present one.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Not just today's creation, but we also groan within ourselves, waiting for the redemption of our body (our spiritual body). That doesn't happen until the day of Christ's 2nd coming.


What happened to cause God's fierce anger that destroyed His original Perfect creation of Genesis 1:1, and bring this present state of the creation in "bondage of corruption"? Some wrongly think it was because of Adam and Eve's sin in His Garden. But we see the adversary (the devil as "that old serpent") was already in his role of working against The Father and The Son by the time of Adam and Eve. Revelation 12:3-4 reveals the devil drew a third of the angels ("stars") in rebellion with him against God. Apostle John said the devil sinned from the beginning. God in Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 revealed via parables how the devil coveted God's throne in wanting to be God. That event is what produced God's fierce anger to destroy that old world prior to Adam and Eve.
 

marks

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The word "creature" is Greek ktisis in all of these verses, including the KJV word "creation". That's what it means, God's creation.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him Who hath subjected the same in hope,


The creation ("creature") was made subject to vanity. When was that event? We were shown back in Jeremiah 4:23-28...
No, in the curse. Whatever we try to gain for ourselves, something will come to take it away. God made it that way so we'd learn to fear Him. This is in Ecclesiastes.

Adam will work, and in return, get thorns. Vanity, all is vanity!

Much love!
 
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Davy

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No, in the curse. Whatever we try to gain for ourselves, something will come to take it away. God made it that way so we'd learn to fear Him. This is in Ecclesiastes.

Adam will work, and in return, get thorns. Vanity, all is vanity!

Much love!

When do you think Satan first rebelled in coveting God's throne then? Sounds like you think it happened after God formed Adam.
 

marks

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When do you think Satan first rebelled in coveting God's throne then? Sounds like you think it happened after God formed Adam.
I think Satan envied man.

Much love!
 

marks

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You said that on the Church To Stay on Earth thread.

Staying in God's Word as written by The Holy Spirit gives certainty.
Yes I did, I realized that. It's kind of a stock reply when I read declarations made with such certainty over matters I don't find clarified in the Bible.

How are you certain that it was God's throne Satan coveted?

"I will be like the Most High" . . . is this where?

Much love!
 

Davy

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Here is the proper reading of the first part of the creation account of Genesis 1. Even the KJV proves that past Genesis 1:1 a flood of waters upon the earth existed that destroyed the old world. It is not per men's traditions, which shouldn't be a big surprise.

Gen 1:1-10
1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

There is no way to know exactly how long ago that was when God 'originally' created the heavens and the earth. That was God's original PERFECT creation, not the world of today which Apostle Paul said God placed into bondage of corruption. This is why man can find fossils of tropical plant and animal life at the poles, and in the deserts of this present world. The whole earth was once a Paradise when God once dwelt here on earth with His angels. Then Satan rebelled in coveting His throne, and drew a third of the angels in rebellion with him. God ended that old world, which is the subject of the next verse.


2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

That is not some idea of the earth not being yet formed, like some nebula gas rotation theory of science. That is about an ALREADY EXISTING earth, and it having been flooded by those "waters" upon it. The meaning in the Hebrew of "without form, and void" is actually 'a waste' and 'an indistinguishable ruin' (tohuw va bohuw). It is the state of the earth Jeremiah 4:23-28 is pointing to. God ended that old world with flood waters because of Satan's rebellion. This is actually the state of the earth Peter was pointing to in 2 Peter 3 about "the world that then was" which he said many are willingly ignorant of.


3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.


That is not the creation of the sun and moon, which God doesn't speak of until verse 14. I think it was when God created a place of separation (darkness) in the heavenly for the abode of Satan and his angels.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

A firmament means the 'sky' atmosphere around the earth. He is still not creating the earth here, He did that at Gen.1:1 in the beginning. The earth at this point is totally covered with the "waters" of Gen.1:2. Then God begins to move those waters, making a division between waters on the earth, and sending part of those waters up above the earth to create today's sky atmosphere.


7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Here the division of the Gen.1:2 "waters" overspread upon the earth to create the sky cloud atmosphere is emphatic.


9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

Now the rest of the "waters" upon the earth, are still covering it, and then are moved around (into the deep, like caverns in the earth and such), and the dry land of the earth underneath those waters appears. This is not a creation, it is the earth under those Gen.1:2 "waters" being exposed again for this second world age we live in today.



10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
KJV


In Revelation 21 we are told this:

Rev 21:1
21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

KJV

That is for the future new heavens and a new earth. How can that future time have no more seas upon the earth?

It's because the manifestation of oceans and seas is only for THIS PRESENT creation that Paul said God placed into bondage of corruption (Romans 8:19-25). I'm sorry sailors, but the idea of oceans and seas was not part of God's original Perfect creation. It instead, like the barren deserts, is a state of corruption for this world to show that even God's creation today seeks a RELEASE from the bondage God placed it in, BECAUSE of Satan's rebellion. Even the animal kingdom today is in bondage to corruption, because Isaiah 11 shows in the world to come the wolf will dwell with the lamb (sorry all you animal TV show lovers).

"Why am I here?", goes the age old question.

We are here, with God having set the limited bounds of our memory and knowledge, to make a decision who we will follow, our Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ, or the devil (which is the default for those who claim they haven't made a choice).

There was a previous world age. We presently are in the 2nd one, which were the events of Genesis 1:2 forward, what Peter called "the heavens and the earth, which are now" (2 Peter 3).

The Revelation 12:3-4 event when the "red dragon" (another title for Satan) rebelled in drawing a third of the angels ("stars") to earth, was with a false beast kingdom having ten horns, seven heads, but only seven crowns. That was Satan's kingdom on earth he established against God in that old world. The reason our Lord Jesus showed us that in conjunction with Satan's rebellion, and in the Rev.12 Chapter, is because He wants us to WAKE UP about the final beast kingdom for the END of this present world being described in the Rev.13 Chapter!

Satan himself is coming to earth again, to sit upon a false throne in today's Jerusalem, just like what he did in the old world when he first rebelled against God, coveting His throne. Satan is not going to allow any flesh man to take his place upon that false throne. The devil himself is coming in person, on earth, to do that. That is why we have been warned about the coming Antichrist being able to work great signs and wonders on the earth that will deceive the whole world, except God's elect.