Church To Stay On Earth

Davy said:

That the flesh body would fall away to reveal the spirit body, what kind of idea is that??

When the flesh body DIES, or is CHANGED at the "last trump", that is when the flesh is cast off (Ecclesiastes 12:5-7; 1 Corinthians 15:44-54). The fall away idea in God's Word is about spiritual deception, not death and the resurrection.



Uh, really? Paul is declaring that very thing in 2 Corinthians 12, that that one saw into Paradise. Why won't you accept the Scripture as written? Apostle Paul is most likely speaking of himself, being modest, because he was once stoned and left for dead (Acts 14:19). That event coupled with his witness in 2 Corinthians 12 suggests he had a near death experience (NDE).

Acts 14:19
19 And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and, having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead.
KJV




Well, if that tradition of men helps you understand, fine. But that's not what God's Word reveals in 2 Corinthians 5, nor in John 3 by our Lord Jesus when He said that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit. Nor does it agree with the Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 Scripture which makes a clear distinction between the flesh going back to one place, and our spirit (with soul per Matt.10:28) going back to another (to God).

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Pauls use of " Spiritual" pneumatikos in the Greek. It means controlled by the Spirit, the Spirit is the source who is God.

The spiritual man is a man with a body of flesh yet controlled by the Spirit ie God.
The spiritual food was the real manna which came from God
The spiritual drink was real water which miracously came out of the rock from God as its source
The spiritual rock was a real physical rock which provided the water which came from God

Now fast forward to 1 Cor 15 the spiritul body is one that comes from God as its source but it is still a human body that is incorruptible and immortal just like Jesus real human body is now , hence the BODILY RESURRECTION, ASCENSION and 2ND COMING of JESUS who is forever God Incarnate ( in the flesh). God manifest in the flesh as the bible teaches.

The spirit of antichrist rejects this truth and Paul says you are dead in your sins if you deny this truth in 1 Cor 15.


Here is strongs which definition on BODY ( SOMA) which refutes your false view.

Strong's Concordance
sóma: a body
Original Word: σῶμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: sóma
Phonetic Spelling: (so'-mah)
Definition: a body
Usage: body, flesh;
HELPS Word-studies
4983 sṓma – the physical body.

STRONGS NT 4152: πνευματικός

πνευματικός, πνευματικῇ, πνευματικόν (πνεῦμα), spiritual (Vulg.spiritalis); in the N. T.

1. relating to the human spirit, or rational soul, as the part of man which is akin to God and serves as his instrument or organ, opposed to ἡ ψυχή (see πνεῦμα, 2): hence, τό πνευματικόν, that which possesses the nature of the rational soul, opposed to τό ψυχικόν, 1 Corinthians 15:46 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 592 (551)); σῶμα πνευματικόν, the body which is animated and controlled only by the rational soul and by means of which the rational life, of life of the πενυμα, is lived; opposed to σῶμα ψυχικόν, verse 44.


1 Corinthians 15:38-41
But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

A summary of the bodies mentioned above are all PHYSICAL in nature

1- people
2- seed
3-animals
4-birds
5-fish
6- heavenly - the sun, moon and stars
7- earthly- all inclusive 1-5

So as we can see BODY above are all PHYSICAL in nature.

case closed refuted once again with the truth @Davy

hope this helps !!!

@Davy

The spiritual man- is a real physical man with a real human body of flesh but is controlled by the Spirit of God hence he is a spiritual man

The spiritual food - is real food thats has its origin from God much like the spiritual man. That spiritual food is manna from heaven, REAL FOOD and NOURISHMENT

The spiritual rock- is a real physical Rock at Horeb that followed the Israelites in the wilderness which provided the water for them.

The spiritual drink- is real water supernaturally provided by God for them to drink.

And last but not least

The Spiritual body- is a real physical body with flesh as Jesus said He was post Resurrection. this body which has its source from heaven by God is now immortal, imperishable, incorruptible and glorified. This all happens in the Resurrection as Paul declares in 1 Corinthians 15, just like Jesus body is now in heaven. Jesus is a real man, has a real human body, with real flesh and bones.

I cannot state the obvious any clearer and more concise than I have above.

Why do you reject this essential truth which is salvific ?

The bodily Resurrection, Ascension and 2nd Coming of Jesus in His literal FLESH and BONES. A spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have said Jesus in Luke 24:39 post Resurrections when His Glorified, Immortal, Incorruptible and Imperishable literal physical human body was touched by Thomas and the other disciples and He still has the scars in His hands, feet and side as PROOF it was Really Him.

hope this helps !!!

Davy said:

Just that statement in bold shows you are in love with all things Jewish, and not really respecting God's Word as written.

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And you sound so sure!

marks said:

That's what I think. An entire nation of people alive in Christ, giving birth to children alive in Christ.

Much love!

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Then, YAY...we are in agreement

Nancy said:

Then, YAY...we are in agreement

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Do you know that you are the first person I've come across that thinks this beside myself?

Much love!

marks said:

I see the judgment in Matthew 24 to be of the living at the end of the age. I see the judgment in Revelation 20 to be the judgment of the dead at the end of this creation.

Much love!

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I see clearly that Rev. 20 is speaking of the final judgement as well as the 1000 years reign of Christ on the Earth...the "New Earth".

marks said:

Do you know that you are the first person I've come across that thinks this beside myself?

Much love!

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Lol...same here! It can take the joy out of fellowshipping when one who does not agree 100% with the other. And worst of all is when we might "like" another's post, for whatever reasons...then some will kind of shun you? Doesn't matter to me anymore, my heart and spirit will speak what God gives to me. If and WHEN I am wrong about a thing, I totally trust that He will give me understanding...in His time

Nancy said:

And worst of all is when we might "like" another's post, for whatever reasons...then some will kind of shun you?

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Political "Likes"! Yikes!!



But I get that!

Nancy said:

Doesn't matter to me anymore, my heart and spirit will speak what God gives to me. If and WHEN I am wrong about a thing, I totally trust that He will give me understanding...in His time

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Amen!!

Davy said:

Yes I am sure:

Matt 25:34
34 Then shall the King say unto them on His right hand, "Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
KJV

Who would those in red be, and where was that also said about them by Paul, and to whom was Paul saying it to?

Here Apostle Paul was speaking that idea to the Ephesians...

Eph 1:3-5
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
KJV

... and to the Thessalonians:

2 Thess 2:13-14
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto He called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
KJV

... and to Romans:

Rom 9:23-26
23 And that He might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom He hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As He saith also in Osee, I will call them My people, which were not My people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not My people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
KJV

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And yet this does not answer to the internal inconsistency if the sheep and the elect in Jesus' prophecy were the same.

You are trying to interpret Jesus' prophecy of Israel to Israel according to Paul's teaching to the church.

Much love!

Davy said:

That is why you are scared of those Scriptures, and continue to bypass them.

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This reveals your lack of knowledge about me.

Davy said:

Eph 1:3-5
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
KJV

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Hi Davy,

How exactly does this passage teach us that the Chosen and the Nations which will be gathers are NOT the Jews and Gentiles respectively? He has chosen us in Christ, but that doesn't change that God also chose one nation of all the nations. One does not negate the other.

Davy said:

Eph 1:3-5
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
KJV

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Same question as above . . .

Davy said:

2 Thess 2:13-14
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto He called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
KJV

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Same question . . .

Davy said:

Rom 9:23-26
23 And that He might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom He hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As He saith also in Osee, I will call them My people, which were not My people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not My people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
KJV

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Just the same . . . none of these passages, while telling about the Church, and about Israel, change Jesus' prophecy, and how He gave it. None of them speak towards the end of the age, and Jesus' judgment of the nations at the end of the age.

Will Israel be the head of nations during the millennium?

Much love!

Davy said:

You bypassed this, which was also in my Scripture post...

Matt 25:33-34
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
KJV

Welcome to my IGNORE LIST. You have not intention of following Scripture, so I don't have time for those like you.

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Yes, this was the passage we were talking about, right? And this was one I referred several times in my replay, did you not notice? So I'm having a difficult time understanding your objection here.

My reply to you is that the chosen and the nations in Matthew 24 and 25 are properly understood as referring to the Jews and the gentiles. And that there was a kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world that some of these will be allowed to enter.

And that these passages that speak of believers being chosen in Him before the foundation of the world, this does not change the meaning and use of the word in Matthew. And considering that Jesus was prophesying of Israel's future to Jews, and Paul was teaching theology to Jews and gentiles who had both converted to Christianity, we're talking apples and oranges.

And if you make the sheep to be the same people as the elect . . .

You've got 2 gatherings . . . or 1?
You've got 2 groups . . . or 3?

And you are going to separate the sheep according to how they treated the sheep. Except this is testing them according to themselves.

A mixed group, separated according to how they acted towards a certain group. If we are talking about the Chosen as the Chosen Nation, Israel, and the Nations as all the gentile nations, there's no issue.

Jesus gathers the Jews, and then gathers the gentiles, and divides the gentiles according to how they treated the Jews.

But, if it's all one, and all the people of the earth are gathered, and they are all divided, saved and unsaved, according to how they treated the saved, it presumes you already know the group, and the true division is based on something else, foreknowledge of their faith resulting in imputed righteousness, and the Lord knows who are His. But then, why say it was something else? If that's not so?

If you say, it's a combination of the saved and unsaved, and the sheep include saved Jew and saved gentile, so that you know the group, then, you've come back to the original issue, that the Jews and gentiles at that time are not counted the same.

What I actually suspect is that you don't want to take time to exegete these texts, or you realize they don't actually say those things, only that you mentally make a connection between them.

But regardless of reason, it's certainly your perogative to reply or not as you wish.

Much love!