Healing For Today

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gregg

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IF JESUS WAS HERE ,WHAT WOULD HE SAY? YEA, NO, MAYBE, YOU HAVE NOT SUFFERED ENOUGH YET, WAIT TILL YOU GET TO HEAVEN, come on people JESUS is here and his word says yes and amen to all his promises right now. have faith in GOD.
:rolleyes: if we know how to care for our children how much more will he care for you.
 

Brother Mike

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Oh, Brother JerryJohnson..............................I see the problem now.....................

This is why we won't agree. It's one word.

Dispensations

I suppose we take everything Jesus did and said, and throw it into another place, and just for that time. Heck, just rip out Matt-John.

No problem, just keep the pages that you say are for today. That does not Hold Water Brother. You can't pick and choose. OK, go ahead.....

blast me!!! I need to learn. What scripture did Jesus say he would change?? What scripture tells the Holy Spirit operates different.

I put this in the debate forum for a reason. Where is the Scripture that faith in the name of Jesus no longer works, or can heal anyone. I'll need that one about the Name being broken. Give me the scripture Brother.

I suppose all the personal healing miracles I have been involved with, and the many more I have seen, including the healing of my own son was just a by chance thing. I know, It could be that I am more special than everyone, and God loves me more.
Which one is it Brother JerrryJohnson?? I want to know, I have dealt with all these types of questions for years. Give me a new one Brother!!!!

It could be I just am making this all up........

Dispensations????????????

So, Jesus changed............ Just admit what you really believe. Own up to it. I could respect that. If you believe that, then fine. Just if you need healing, or your family, then at least go back and rethink some things. Get the victory Brother. I am not trying to fool anyone.

JerryJohnson. Just once, admit that you could be wrong...........I don't try to tramp on your end time Doctrine theory. You know why? because it's not my area. What you said, and gave me to read makes sense about no rapture. I can see it. Could it be that we are in a place that you don't understand this healing Doctrine? As I said, I have been working in this area for awhile.

These flesh bodies were never created to last forever. They start breaking down the moment we are born. Our ultimate healing will come when we return to our spiritual bodies. Some might be healed before, miracles do happen but not as often in this dispensation of GRACE.

I agree, I can't wait for my new body, this thing needs washed, and aches, and bless God. Have you ever thought that Miracles may occur because someone might believe something? Jesus said all things are possible to them that believe. All, is all Brother.

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Gregg

Thank you Brother!!! As yourself, I also look at God's very Character and nature. he sent His word to Heal us, and deliver us.

If Jesus were here......................Will he find faith on earth?? or a bunch of people that say it all passed away in some made up Dispensation of time. After all, we don't have to believe and be accountable for believing anything if it all Passed away. That won't fly with the Lord though.

Now what pages should I mark out with the Words of Jesus since it no longer applies today?

Jesus Is Lord
 

Brother Mike

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Brother JerryJohnson................


Scriptures Brother!!!!! Don't stop on me now........ Teach me something.

Tell me about Jacobs hip....
Tell me about God kills and makes alive.
Tell me about God created the lame.
Tell me about Pharaoh and how God choose him to be the vessel of destruction.
Tell me about Jesus not healing everyone at the pool of Bethesda, must not been his will... sniff........
Tell me about Paul leaving Trophimus sick.........
Tell me about Job.
Tell me about our suffering for Jesus.

Where are the scriptures that Jesus has changed!!! What dispensation are you talking about??

Tell me how the acts of the Apostles have gone away.... bye bye.

Something Brother....Or better yet, give me something I have not heard before.

I don't know Brother. I guess you can believe what you want. Don't hurt the hope of others, Our Lord has never changed.

Be blessed Brother Jerryjohnson...........There are still lots of things we do agree on.

Jesus Is Lord.
 

Rach1370

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Brother Mike, you seem to be trying to discuss a wonderful idea, so I can't understand why you're being so unfeeling, snide and just trying to steamroller your way through what everyone else is saying. You ask everyone else to keep an open mind, be willing to learn, but you yourself have not shown one iota of compassion to what others say or feel. I enjoyed (not) how you 'begged' other to bring you scriptures, but when they did you scoff and say...oh they don't mean that!

I believe that there are certain things that cannot be argued....that Christ is God and Man, that he was born of a virgin, that he died on the cross, that he rose again and gives the gift of Grace to those who believe in him and ask for forgiveness. These are primary, or close hand issues to do with our faith.
secondary issues, open hand ones, are up for debate, as people interpret passages differently. For example, young earth? old earth? preterism, premil rapture? All of these issues are argued for passionately, with scriptures to back them up. So I believe you really think everything you are arguing for is true, all I ask of you is to try and remember that I am your sister in Christ, and while I do not agree with you, I am not your enemy and therefore do not deserve your false assumptions in regard to my faith.
In your relpy to me you said several things that I am very uncomfortable about:
"your in that God does what he wants to who he wants Doctrine, and it's false" - I see the opposite to this is God does what we want him to do, when we want him to. Also known as telling God to heel."God, I have enough faith so heal me...now!"
Sorry, thats wrong. I believe that God is soverign and yes, he has a plan for me. As I love him heaps and have faith that he can do anything, then I believe I am where He wants me. I also believe that if he wants me to wake up well tomorrow, thats exactly what will happen.

"You said your Pastor's prayed over you, but you say you don't know if it is God's will to heal you......... Has it occurred to you to take the time to get in faith, and do what God asked you to do??" - How do have any idea what my faith is like? This is just rude. As you said in a later post, I have endured for many years...that I still worship and love God, praise him for all....well, I think my faith is Ok, although I know it will continue to grow! As far as 'knowing Gods will'? I belong to my Lord, he is all powerful, if he wanted me well, do you think I would still be sick? Again, rude, and wrong.

"If you don't give this any effort, then that's on you." - No amount of effort on my behalf will heal me. I love, trust and obey and only want Gods will for my life.

Just a final thought for you. If faith is enough to have God heal us, that he in fact wants all Christians to have a wonderfully healthy life, to have no sickness, then what about the fact that we die?? Come on, seriously? Stroke, heat failure, cancer, hundreds of things that Christians, genuine, faithful Christians suffer from. Our bodies are fallen and start the decaying process as soon as we are born. I am so very pleased that God chooses to heal some....but they still end up dead...that is the wage of sin, and have you perhaps done a study to see how these people die? I believe it would probably be very interesting. You see we all die of something...maybe old age, but generally our bodies are just worn down by ill health and wear. By your idea, that shouldn't happen at all huh?

Look, I don't like fighting, am not very good at arguing, but you Brother Mike, while perhaps trying to help people, are only insulting and hurting them. Pray for understanding (of their condition) and compassion, please, then so many more might actually be willing to listen, rather than getting their backs up??
Rach

Oh, Ps...at your church, where you have seen so many healed? What happens to the ones who aren't? Are they sent away feeling even worse, that somehow their illness is their fault? I put it to you that these are the people who need the most support, love and prayer, rather than lectures on 'getting it right'.
 

Brother Mike

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.that Christ is God and Man, that he was born of a virgin, that he died on the cross, that he rose again and gives the gift of Grace to those who believe in him and ask for forgiveness. These are primary, or close hand issues to do with our faith.

That is why your my Sister, and we will have something to talk about.........

how you 'begged' other to bring you scriptures, but when they did you scoff and say...oh they don't mean that!

No, Sister.......... I never said I did not agree with any scriptures given. I added to JerryJohnson comment about possible Miracles sometimes. I never disagreed with what He had Written. I don't like using Greek and Hebrew to prove a point. My whole point is that people use the situation that Paul went though in connection with sickness and disability. I won't tell you how many times I have heard it. "Well, I am always in pain, and I may never walk again, but His grace is sufficient for me." This is way out of context of what Jesus Told Paul. Jesus said, What I have done, is more than enough to put your over on top.

Remember, Paul's issue was a messenger of Satan.

Sufficient: arkeō 1) to be possessed of unfailing strength
1a) to be strong, to suffice, to be enough
1a1) to defend, ward off
1b) to be satisfied, to be contented

through the idea of raising a barrier]

Paul was already filled with the Holy Spirit, he was already possessed with unfailing strength.

That is what Paul heard, He heard that because of the awesome Grace of our Lord God, there was already a barrier, He was already delivered from the powers of dakness. (Col 1:13) That there was more than enough power to give him the Victory.

What did Paul learn........... Best I be weak, and trust in the Lord's ability. My own strength and knowledge is not going to cut it.

To say that the Lord's grace is sufficient and your still sick and struggling, means your not content, means you would like better for your life. Seeking more knowledge about healing is what my point was. You can't have faith in something, if you don't know about it, and don't know the Lords will concerning it.

if he wanted me well, do you think I would still be sick? Again, rude, and wrong.

No, Sister. Not rude. You made it this far, so you have faith, everyone is given the measure of faith. However, if the Lord wanted you well?? It is not all the Lords fault here. We have a covenant, and that is a two party agreement. Before you assume the Lord does not want you well, why not assume you need to learn more.

Mat 9:28 And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, [b]Believe ye that I am able to do this[/b]? They said unto him, Yea, Lord.


Mat 9:29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.


Now why did Jesus ask if they thought if he was able to do this? What did Jesus say Healing was measured to them by?

Most think if Jesus wants us healed, then He will just heal us. That is not what Jesus himself said. There is lots of Doctrine people have, that does not line up with what our Lord told us. It was according to this mans faith..............Not what Jesus could do, but what that man was willing to believe.

Women with Issue of Blood.

Mar 5:34 And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.

This women already said she was going to be healed, if she can just touch his garment. What are we saying??? God will heal me if he wants?? That is not going to get very far in the Healing dept.

What did Jesus say that made this Women whole of her plague? Her faith................

To discount this, then we have to discount what the master said...........


"If you don't give this any effort, then that's on you." - No amount of effort on my behalf will heal me. I love, trust and obey and only want Gods will for my life.

I partly agree. It takes effort to receive Jesus as Lord. You have to believe something. It takes effort to receive Healing. Faith without works is dead. Jesus did not think this way. He told the Centurion that he would personally go with him to heal his servant.... What did the centurion say? Just speak the word only, and my servant will be healed. Jesus marveled at this mans faith. That word that Healed the Centurions servant is still around today.

You can discount all this if you want, I just want to help.

Look, I don't like fighting, am not very good at arguing, but you Brother Mike, while perhaps trying to help people, are only insulting and hurting them. Pray for understanding (of their condition) and compassion, please, then so many more might actually be willing to listen, rather than getting their backs up??

Well, I have to say sorry if I came off wrong.......... you are right!!! This is a debate forum though, but no excuse. You have to understand. I watched my own son dying of cancer. I won't tell the whole story, but I hate what the devil is doing, and I hate the false lies he has given to the Church. He kills, steals and destroys. He has take your quality of life from you far to long.
We are told to resist the devil steadfast in faith.............. Why, because he will kill us, steal from us and destroy us. He would love for us to think God is not the one moving on our behalf. God already did, and we need to recieve and believe what God said.

Oh, Ps...at your church, where you have seen so many healed? What happens to the ones who aren't? Are they sent away feeling even worse, that somehow their illness is their fault? I put it to you that these are the people who need the most support, love and prayer, rather than lectures on 'getting it right'.

No, None that I know of personally have left feeling bad. That is not to say some haven't. Some I have worked with or spoken to have died. I don't like that, but I am not the healer.
There are many, many reasons people do not receive healing. Lack of knowledge, Lack of faith, disobedience to the Lord. The list is goes on. It's never God's fault though, and it is never God not wanting to heal them.

Healing is not instantaneous most the time. Jesus said lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover, not be healed on the spot. People have a big misconception about Healing, if they have never been around it.
The thing is Sister, we are not the Healer, and we don't dictate to God how he wants us healed. If he says go to the Doctor, then Go, If he says go wash in a pool, the wash. A lot of it is following directions of the Holy Spirit. Wisdom!!!!

I have only been involved personally in 3 instant healing. Most are building people up to trust God.

One was a girl that after I was done preaching, she came up on the platform. She asked me

Some is just standing and believing. What is believing? Your mouth agrees with God, by his stripes you are healed. You may be weak, but God never said confess your weak. (Joel 3:10) Just do what God said do. It's not rocket science.
Out of the abundance of your heart (What you really believe) will come out of your mouth. Out of your heart is the very issues of your life.

One story, then I'll stop.

Love the Key to Victory.

While locked up, my wing (100 men) got a nasty viral something that went around to almost everyone. 60% of us ended up in the Hospital, and our wing was quarantined. Of course being the big faith man, I thought I was. I rebuked that virus in the Name of Jesus, and told it that it could not touch my body. That worked.............NOT!!!!!! I got very, very sick.

Back in time:

2 weeks ago, I was watching the WWF Woot!!!!! (Then the World Wrestling Federation) I mean prison is boring, and I liked wrestling. I was in the day room with the rest of the unsaved rooting for the Undertaker.
Just while Undertaker was wining, another brother in Christ came up to me. He asked me if I was setting a good example for the rest of the unsaved.
I told my brother it was not of his business, and not to worry about it................. (I know... real godly, huh??)

Though I lived in the same wing with my Brother, we stopped talking and having fellowship with each other. I figured he would come and apologize and all would be good.

2 Weeks forward again.

I had not talked to my brother for almost 3 weeks, but now I was sick. dog sick............ I rebuked every devil known to God, and some I made up, just in case. I had my scriptures on healing, I was confessing the Word, I never confessed I was sick, but here I was. Sick. I had done everything right, that I knew of. (Well, it does not work that way, but I was still sorta new at it.)

I finally did something, that I don't like to do. I had to humble myself and ask God why my faith was not working. (The humble part is fine, asking God why my faith don't work, is not so good.)

The Lord spoke to me. (Not a voice but inside.) He said, "Go tell your brother you love him, and say your sorry." I told the Lord to put it on my brothers heart to come to me, and say sorry, and I will. ( I know now....... Dumb....)

Sister, I stayed real sick for a few more days. 2 or 3. Well, bless God, I was not going to get the guards and asked to be taken to the Hospital, faith people don't do that...........(me wanting it my way.) About the 2 or 3rd day, I got out of bed and wondered into the day room. I was wondering why God did not bring my brother to me yet to apologize. I needed some water, and I saw my Brother reading his bible in a chair.
So, I walked over to him and told him that I loved him and that I was sorry. We cried, and I hugged him and I headed right back to bed. On the way to my bed, the power of the anointing of God filled my whole body. (Can't explain it. Get to a place that believes in this.) and I was healed instantly.
Outside of a scratchy throat, I was completely fine. I learned a lesson about breaking that Love command.

Sister, I gave you a web site. (MY Church) to get info on Healing scriptures. I know you want to be free. What I don't want is for you not to at leas give the Lord a chance, and then continue saying it's not his will to heal everyone. I gave you what you need for victory!!!

Jesus Is Lord
 

Rach1370

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Brother Mike, I'm sorry, I'm trying very hard not to be angry, but with the the exception of your personal story, everything else you've said is insulting and even wrong.

"I don't like using Greek and Hebrew to prove a point." - thats like saying you don't like using the bible to make a point....you do realise it was written in these languages first and the english is only a translation?

"My whole point is that people use the situation that Paul went though in connection with sickness and disability. I won't tell you how many times I have heard it. "Well, I am always in pain, and I may never walk again, but His grace is sufficient for me." This is way out of context of what Jesus Told Paul. Jesus said, What I have done, is more than enough to put your over on top." - I'm sorry, I totally disagree and have read many commentaries that believe that Paul is in fact talking of an illness. Also, if someone is unwell and yet can still say His grace is sufficient for me, isn't that something to praise God about?

"Paul was already filled with the Holy Spirit, he was already possessed with unfailing strength." - Why do you assume that strength must ONLY mean physical strength? Can you not see that emotional strength to endure can bring amazing glory to God, and really, why are people here? The all important 'whats the meaning of life' question.....TO BRING GLORY TO GOD!!!! To me that is the most essential thing for my life.

"To say that the Lord's grace is sufficient and your still sick and struggling, means your not content, means you would like better for your life. Seeking more knowledge about healing is what my point was. You can't have faith in something, if you don't know about it, and don't know the Lords will concerning it." - Again, I'm sorry, but here's where the anger starts. You have no idea of me, my illness, my life or my faith, you quite obviously have no real interest in putting yourself in my shoes and yet you run ahead and make assumptions that are insulting and WRONG! Of course I'm struggling, living life with a serious illness is tough.....but DO NOT assume that means I'm not content with where I am and my relationship with God and the people around me. And the fact that lack of knowledge is stopping 'true' faith and therefore healing is just ignorant! I've been unwell for 16 years...I daresay I'm pretty well read up on it all. And any comment on other peoples level of faith is ridiculous! How could you possible know this? You might say you can know but the fact their still unwell, but again, I say you're wrong, and rude.

"However, if the Lord wanted you well?? It is not all the Lords fault here. We have a covenant, and that is a two party agreement. Before you assume the Lord does not want you well, why not assume you need to learn more." -I would say it's not the Lords fault at all! I don't think you will ever change you're way of thinking, but I will try and explain mine. You say that we can know God wants all of us to be well, because he says so in the bible. While I agree yes, he did many wonderful healing miracles, he did not come ONLY to heal sick people (in fact I believe that many of the passages you have quoted refer to the hope and strength we may have within from the wonder of salvation). He came to save us from sin so we may have everlasting life, and he came to bring Glory to the Father. Now I could grant that your idea has some merit if healing was Jesus only mission. I am not dismissing it's importance and that even now miracles are done, but I truly believe that what God wants most of his people are to love him, to grow in him, towards him, and to live in a way that brings Glory to him. Now, if my being unwell can achieve any of those things, then who am I to stubbornly say to him...I believe that you will heal me, now do it!! You see having me praise God through my sickness may bring him more Glory than if he healed me....at this point in my life anyway. Can you not see this? By refusing to and calling me a doubter and someone low in faith....it's just wrong Brother. It's NOT low faith to submit to his will...it's called Trust.

"There is lots of Doctrine people have, that does not line up with what our Lord told us." - I'm most interested and confused about your attitude towards Doctrine. You refer to it like it's a dirty word or concept. Every Christian needs a sound Doctrine, and all that is is the Truth of Jesus, who he was and what he came to do. Im not ashamed of mine because Im not ashamed of my Lord!!!

"What are we saying??? God will heal me if he wants?? That is not going to get very far in the Healing dept." -See, I think we just see/feel very differently, because for me, it ALL about what God wants, and as far as 'getting far in the healing dept', I don't want/expect to get far in that, all I want to do it live a life that will bring Glory to Him! And boy, thats hard enough!! It just seems to me that you keep pushing this like it all about our agenda and our life here and now. It's not brother, It about Jesus and the eternal life we will have with him, we only need to enjure 'a little while' - also known as life! How is suffering in this life even a consideration when compared to 1)whats coming, and 2)what Jesus has done for us??

"It takes effort to receive Jesus as Lord" - It takes no effort to recieve a gift!!!

And there I recieve my peace.

Rach
 

Brother Mike

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Sister Rach

I don't think we are getting anywhere.

I'm sorry, I totally disagree and have read many commentaries that believe that Paul is in fact talking of an illness.

I am not sure what the commentaries said, but Paul listed infirmities which can be Greek for sickness if you looked at what JerryJohnson posted. The other three were from the places he was at, and the people there. I am not saying Paul never caught a cold, or ran a fever. There is no scripture to prove that though. The whole context was a messenger of Satan.

"I don't like using Greek and Hebrew to prove a point." - thats like saying you don't like using the bible to make a point....you do realise it was written in these languages first and the english is only a translation?

I did give the Greek for the Word sufficient................ You don't believe that is what it means though. What am I to do?

but DO NOT assume that means I'm not content with where I am and my relationship with God and the people around me. And the fact that lack of knowledge is stopping 'true' faith and therefore healing is just ignorant! I've been unwell for 16 years.

If I felt you did not have any faith, or a relationship with God then I would not be posting back. If your happy with being sick these 16 years, then fine. If you would rather NOT BE SICK, then your hearts desire is not being met. You want scripture for that?? You need to be honest and say, I want to be completely well. Most normal people want to be healed.

I am not dismissing it's importance and that even now miracles are done, but I truly believe that what God wants most of his people are to love him, to grow in him, towards him, and to live in a way that brings Glory to him. Now, if my being unwell can achieve any of those things, then who am I to stubbornly say to him...I believe that you will heal me, now do it!! You see having me praise God through my sickness may bring him more Glory than if he healed me....at this point in my life anyway.

If you really believe what your saying, that God uses this to teach or get some kind of glory, then you would never go to a doctor and try to mess that up for God. I don't like people being hypocrites. If you truly think this is God getting some Glory, then never go to a Doctor again. If you think sickness is his will for you, then you should love God enough, and not try to get well.
There are a millions of sick out there, God has plenty of chance to get Glory.


So, don't go to the Doctor, don't fight God if that is what you really believe.

"There is lots of Doctrine people have, that does not line up with what our Lord told us." - I'm most interested and confused about your attitude towards Doctrine.

Everyone has a Doctrine.............. It does hinder everyone from learning new things. Myself included.


Rach......... this thread is about the Lord's will to heal. I gave scripture where Jesus said it was their faith that made them whole. I gave scripture about being the seed of Abraham, and our lords attitude about that. I gave scripture about Paul's thorn.

You said you do believe in miracles, you do believe God can heal. I am not telling you to demand God to heal you, I am just asking you to look again at God's character and nature. God does not want you sick, he gets on pleasure in that, and there is no scripture that tells us sickness builds character, or teaches anything. I am not sure where people get this stuff.
You even refereed to "Other commentaries" The Catholics do the same thing, they have tons of works they consider over what the bible says.

Can sickness teach us? Make us rely on God? We are told to draw neigh to Him and he will draw neigh to us. No sickness mentioned there.

Let me show you where sickness, or some bodily pain was used to help someone.

1Co 5:2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
1Co 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
1Co 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

This man was in sin, and for some reason Satan had yet to get to this person. Paul mentioned the Brothers around him were puffed up. Was Satan blocked by the prayers of others? I can't say, but Paul turned this person over to Satan, under the authority and permission of the Lord Jesus. This was not to teach him anything, it was for his destruction. Paul mentioned the flesh, So, I am sure this man went though some horrible things concerning his flesh.

Is this the position you want to categorize yourself in?

2Co 2:6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.
2Co 2:7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.
2Co 2:8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.

sickness, the flesh being destroyed was considered punishment.

Deu 28:61 Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed.

That is every sickness on planet earth. sickness was intended to do one thing. That is to destroy you.

God said sickness was a curse................ That is scripture Sister. (Read Deut 28)

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Now before you go saying God is using this sickness for some glory for 16 years, consider what he said sickness was. Jesus set you free from that.

If your still not convinced..............My hope is that there is enough seed (Word of God) planted that God will be able to get your attention and say. "Hey this is not of me!!!" As long as you continue to think God has something to do with this, then you will stay sick. I don't want you to be sick, I love my Brothers and Sisters in the Lord.

Would you at least give that healing series a chance?? That is all I ask, and it's in the hopes that you will be blessed by it.

[email protected]

Be blessed Sister.

Jesus Is Lord
 

gregg

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RACH just think if you were to recieve a miracle the lives you would touch and the glory you would bring to GOD, that would be beyond thier comprehensions.IF for no other reason that would be a reason to trust in his stripes, he bore them,lets use them, just as we use his blood for redemsion. :rolleyes: that excites me to see the imposible happen in a world that is blind. what eyes you would open, what faith you would grow in others, what lips of doubt you would close, think on all the praise jesus would recieve.I,ll be the first gorly to GOD. :D
 

Rach1370

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Hey guys! I think your right in the fact we're getting nowhere. I really don't want to fight, it truly serves no purpose.
I know you think you are right, and I'm not trying to sway you from that.
Please, please try to see what you are saying from my side. You say that I:
*bring this on myself
*put the blame on God
*have no faith
*no knowledge
*that any knowledge/teaching I DO have is wrong
*somehow imply that my lack of faith can stymie the great I AM

I am quite at a loss how to explain to you any better that even believing these things to be true as you do, that saying this is NOT how to lovingly bring ill people to you.

I have faith, always have, that Jesus can and will heal me when HE chooses. Submitting to the Lord is not doubting him, not blocking him. Will you honestly tell me that my faith is not enough?? I find it a silly question anyway....my faith is in Jesus, I am saved, and therefore his. As a recipient of Grace I am completely under his love and care. And yet I remain unwell. I do not blame God, and I do not blame myself. I accept and do everything to live for my Lord that I can.
I am sorry you feel I am being cheated....I'm not. As long as I have salvation I have everything, and in my eternal body I will fly!

I know you feel that I have everything wrong, but I happily disagree. Perhaps one day we can laugh about it in heaven??!
Rach
 

Brother Mike

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Ok Sister Rach.........................Nobody wants to fight........(Most nobody around here.)

Your right!!!! In your new body, all is going to be really well. In fact, it will be just like Jesus, as we are told. He was able to move from earth to heaven and walk though walls, but not a ghost. WoW, now that looks like fun and freedom.

I can't tell you, your being Cheated if you don't feel that way.

I did make another post if you want to check it out..

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/11990-is-faith-important-for-victory/page__pid__81038__st__0&#entry81038

I love you Sister............... If you ever change your mind, I put my e-mail up there somewhere.

Victory to you and your family!!!!

Jesus Is Lord
 

01CobraVortech

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I'm on the fence about whether we are all guaranteed healing. Don't get me wrong, I believe there are plenty of miracles asking place today. But many great Christians haven't been healed of their illnesses. It simply hasn't been God's will. My church believes that healing always comes but its not always received. I'm still having a dificult time understanding whether healing is guaranteed or if it isn't.
 

Brother Mike

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My church believes that healing always comes but its not always received. I'm still having a dificult time understanding whether healing is guaranteed or if it isn't.

Thank you for your contribution Brother Robster..........So, your on the fence?? That is why we have these long debates with tons of scripture.

Now your Church believes healing always comes, but it has to be received? That is called faith for what Jesus did at the cross, and by his stripes we are healed.

We have to be careful though Brother Robster. I have been in this for a long time, and sometimes faith is not really the issue for no healing. In fact, it is a case by case type of thing. Jesus Laid hands on the thousands and they received Healing. Yet one time he told someone to wash in a pool. Why not just lay hands on them?

What about obedience to God? could that effect healing? You better believe it does. Those that don't get healed, we have no idea where their relationship is with God. We may just see a front. I know men that have died early because God told them to go somewhere, and they never did. There are men, that God told to go to the Doctor, and get their weight under control, but never did.

Then we have the Love commandment. Walking out of love, yelling at your spouse can hinder prayer. Things Christians do, and don't even know they do it.

Then there is faith. How can you have faith in God, if you don't know what God wants to do? You can't!!!! Does God want you healed or not? take a side. Don't sit on the fence, and don't waver back and fourth.

There are many reasons for no healing, but we need to stay focused on what we believe in scripture, and not the ones that DID NOT make it, and praise God for the one that did. The main thing is to do as God ask you to do, and be Led by the Holy Spirit. Just staying on God's Path can keep us from ever having to battle some horrible things, off the path, and we are running into things God never intended.

Be blessed Brother Robster.

Jesus Is Lord
 

01CobraVortech

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Thank you for your contribution Brother Robster..........So, your on the fence?? That is why we have these long debates with tons of scripture.

Now your Church believes healing always comes, but it has to be received? That is called faith for what Jesus did at the cross, and by his stripes we are healed.

We have to be careful though Brother Robster. I have been in this for a long time, and sometimes faith is not really the issue for no healing. In fact, it is a case by case type of thing. Jesus Laid hands on the thousands and they received Healing. Yet one time he told someone to wash in a pool. Why not just lay hands on them?

What about obedience to God? could that effect healing? You better believe it does. Those that don't get healed, we have no idea where their relationship is with God. We may just see a front. I know men that have died early because God told them to go somewhere, and they never did. There are men, that God told to go to the Doctor, and get their weight under control, but never did.

Then we have the Love commandment. Walking out of love, yelling at your spouse can hinder prayer. Things Christians do, and don't even know they do it.

Then there is faith. How can you have faith in God, if you don't know what God wants to do? You can't!!!! Does God want you healed or not? take a side. Don't sit on the fence, and don't waver back and fourth.

There are many reasons for no healing, but we need to stay focused on what we believe in scripture, and not the ones that DID NOT make it, and praise God for the one that did. The main thing is to do as God ask you to do, and be Led by the Holy Spirit. Just staying on God's Path can keep us from ever having to battle some horrible things, off the path, and we are running into things God never intended.

Be blessed Brother Robster.

Jesus Is Lord

Brother Mike and brother Whirlwind, thank you for taking the time to make those posts. I've been dealing with a devastating eye illness which began last May. I've see some of the best ophthalmologists in the USA and they find my illness to be a mystery. Its left me crippled to the point where I can't work, though it has improved over the past 3 months after beginning a special acupuncture treatment that focuses on treatment of eye conditions. My western doctors tell me I need a miracle to have my eyes function again. My Jewish acupuncturist feels confident he can get me to as close as 100% as I could be.

I believe that nothing is impossible through the Lord Jesus Christ. After all, if He could speak everything into existence, then fixing my problem is a snap. I have a 40 minute cd compiled by my pastor which goes over all the "healing" scripture in the Bible. And it also stressed that by Jesus' stripes we are healed. Maybe you are right about getting off the fence and believing through faith that I will be healed, much like I believe through faith that I've been granted salvation. I guess I've always believed that since we don't know God's will for our lives, that we can't presume that we are guaranteed healing. While I've always believed that the devil sends us sickness and many hardships, I also believe that the Lord sometimes sends us trials and tribulations. Now don't get me wrong, I do believe that when the Lord sends us trials and tribulations that the devil is actively involved in them. Thank you for refocusing my attention on the promises we can hold to. I need to start believing with all my heart that my healing will come and I need to make sure I'm listening to God and being obedient to Him. Out of curiosity, do you know of anyone that's been healed of any kind of illness that doctor's claimed could not be healed?

God bless you brothers,
Rob
 

Brother Mike

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Out of curiosity, do you know of anyone that's been healed of any kind of illness that doctor's claimed could not be healed?


Brother Robster............... Glory to God........ I know of several.............cases where the doctor said there was no hope.

My son being one of them. He was suppose to have died after the day I got the news. I got the Doctor report still.

several years ago, I really hurt my back at work. I had just reached down to pick up a tiny small box, and something snapped, popped and felt like someone removed all the muscle from my ribs and took a wrench to my spine. Up to that point, I had never felt so much pain............. (I got better pain latter :( )

Man Robster.......... I went into a thing with the devil. He had no right doing that to me. I won't tell you what I did faith wise, because we are all at different places, and each case is different.

I really hurt for 3 weeks though very bad. I would come home everyday and just lay in bed after about 4 aspirin and just thank God for being faithful, and that by His stripes I am healed. Mind you though, it is week number three.

Let me tell you some things that ran though my mind.

It's not God's will to heal you this time.
You permanently hurt your back, and should have went to the Doctor while there was time.
Why are you not getting better.
God is trying to teach you something.
Where is the healing now? Why is it taking so long, don't God know you are in serious pain. Does God care?



The key to affirming what you believe is your mouth. What is in the abundance of your heart, the mouth is going to speak. It will just come out, you can not control your tongue. You can only subject your tongue to the Holy Spirit and the Word of God, you have no flesh control over it.

I believed none of those things, So, I never said a word, but thanked God that I was the Healed, and His Word has never failed anyone.

Well, on week three, my Landlord thought it would be a good idea to move refrigerators up and down some stairs to different apartments. He also felt it a good idea to knock on my door and ask for some help. I got out of bed to answer the door.

It was my Landlord..... want to move refrigerators..............surprise.

The thought came right away that if I helped him, then I would forever damage my back. I had to tell him to wait a minute. If I help, I can permanently damage my back........ ummmmmm............. Where did that thought come from??? just good reasoning?? What was I believing? Was I the healed, or was I not the healed. I certainly did not feel healed, but I don't ask Brother Mike how he feels, I tell Brother Mike how he feels.

I said, Sure, I'll help you move them....... not a problem.

Problems.............

I about finished my Landlord off with a refrigerator going up some stairs. I had no strength, the best I could do was just wrap my arms around and pull with my legs........ Not much help, but I tried.

When we where done, and with some strange looks from my landlord, I went right back to bed. I should have been thankful for the pain I had early that day, because right now?? I was really in pain. I just told God, that his word is true, I said that with tears in my eyes...... I thanked God again that he has never failed anyone that would believe.
I fell asleep.


The next day:


I got out of bed, and headed for the kitchen.... garbed a bowl of cereal and started to much away. I almost dropped the Bowl, because I realized I was not hurting anymore. I set the bowl down and went into a gym routine thing, swinging arms, and twisting my waist...........NO PAIN. Glory to God!!!!!!

Just then the Holy Spirit spoke to me. (not a voice but inside) He said, "Tell my people that if they will start meditating in my word, and keep their mouth, that I will sustain them as they build confidence in me. I have failed nobody that has ever put their trust in me, and they will be fully healed."

Glory to God.............

The thing is Robster..........

I also believe that the Lord sometimes sends us trials and tribulations.

God does not try or tempt any man. When James talked about temptations, he was talking about sin. There is not one scripture that tells us God sends tribulations. Not if you his child. NOT ONE.

Once we get past all the reason God won't heal us, past any thought that it may be God doing this, real faith begins, and the Victory comes.

Be blessed.

Jesus Is Lord
 

01CobraVortech

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The thing is Robster..........

God does not try or tempt any man. When James talked about temptations, he was talking about sin. There is not one scripture that tells us God sends tribulations. Not if you his child. NOT ONE.

Once we get past all the reason God won't heal us, past any thought that it may be God doing this, real faith begins, and the Victory comes.

Be blessed.

Jesus Is Lord

Great personal story, thanks for sharing so many details.

But I can't overlook Job's account in regards to God send a trial or tribulation. Sure satan was the cause of all of Job's woes, but God did allow satan to put Job to the test. That's why I believe that sometimes God does send us trials and suffering to accomplish certain things according to His will. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to paint God as a villain for I know that satan is the author of the harm, but it seems that Job's account supports that. Stan waged that Job would curse and turn from God if his life was turned into hell. God accepted the challenge and then allowed satan to destroy everything that Job had. But of course, in the end due to Job's faithfulness, God more than rewarded Him for His belief and trust in the Lord. I don't believe that many Christains will ever be put to test the way Job was, but it still serves to me as a prime example of what God can allow to serve His purpose. I like the ending a great deal. I bet Job's eyes swelled up with tears when God healed Him and doubled everything he once had. I'm no Job, by any stretch of the imagination, but I [ray for such a happy ending. :)
 

Brother Mike

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Job's account???????????


Robster since your already going into a major Study, I don't want to load you down with a bunch of stuff.

I just want you to answer a few questions if you have time.

1) Is there any other scripture we can compare, where someone served God, and God sent Satan to murder their children? Or are we told that if we be willing and obedient we shall eat the good of the land. It can't be both.

2) Satan came to make a deal with God. Can God now be tempted with evil, or was James wrong?

3) In Satan's very first appearance in the Bible, he does a bad job. In fact, he lies. he told Eve that God never said they would die. you think Satan would have tried harder with his first appearance in God's Word. Jesus said in (John 8:44) that there is no truth in the devil. He can't tell the truth, it's impossible for him. Question: Would our God be so dumb as to make a deal with Satan, when nothing he said is true?

4) God never said to Satan that we have a deal. All God said was Behold, all he has is in your power. There is no Hebrew permissive word here. Behold, just means pay attention and look. Would God not have at least acknowledged the deal, and when does God need Satan's help to know someones heart? He never did in all the other scriptures, in fact we are told he knows our heart.

5) In (Job 2:3) God told Satan that He is being moved without CAUSE to destroy Job. If God really made any deal, why would God consider the whole thing to be without a cause?

6). If God was making a deal with Satan, and using Satan to try Job, just as Satan had said. Why would God have to remind Satan to spare Job's life?? (Job 2:6) I mean if Job is dead, then how will we find out if Job was going to curse God or not?

7) Why in every example we see Satan appear in the bible, he is lying his butt off. "Jump Jesus, the angles will catch you!!!!" and just in this ONE case in the book of Job, Christians assume Satan is being honest in what he is saying. All of a sudden in the book of Job, Christians think Satan has turned over a new leaf and is telling God the truth. So much that He gets God's permission to destroy someone that served God, and Loved God. What would make Christians think that Satan was being open in honest in Job's Case??

8) Do we see this same Character and Nature about God in other places in the bible, where people that obeyed him were destroyed by God? NEVER!!!!! It would seen that the account in Job violates God's very Nature. Why is that?

9) In the bible, we are told over 58 times to fear not. 48 times to be not afraid. This is not counting the times to be of good courage, take not thought, and be careful for nothing. (Worry) anytime someone was fearful in the bible it did not produce good results. In fact in (Rev 21:8) we are told where the fearful get to go. Satan is the god of fear and we do not have the spirit of fear but of peace........... Why would that not effect Job, and Satan's ability to get at him? Why do most believe that Job was exempt from this spiritual law of fear? Job told us exactly what had happened to him.........

Job 3:25 For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.

Could there be a possible connection to fear and what had happened to Job? or do we ignore those 58 times God told us to fear not, and set the book of Job as just some stand alone book without comparing scriptures??

10) With that in mind, everything that Job lost is listed at the start of Job, and there is a reason it's in order. The Murder of Job's Children was the hardest thing.

Job 1:5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.

Why would Job go to all the trouble of sacrificing for his children? Was it because Job was a good parent, or was he motivated by the fear of loosing them??

Think on those Robster, and tell me what you come up with.

Eph 4:27 Neither give place to the devil.

Be blessed, Jesus Is Lord