Hostility put to death...

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Irwin Fletcher

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In this current environment, it seems like there is a great deal of division. In this recent post, I'm looking at Ephesians 2:16 -

“Together as one body, Christ reconciled both groups to God by means of his death on the cross, and our hostility toward each other was put to death.” (NLT)

What do you think about this concept when applied to the divisions (political and otherwise) that we see between many Christians today?

Click the link for more of my thoughts about it.
Hostility put to Death
 
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Scoot

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What do you think about this concept when applied to the divisions (political and otherwise) that we see between many Christians today?

I'm heavily grieved by it myself personally.

I know as Christians we are going to see things differently from one another. Our priorities, our experiences, and even our place in the body. (The hand may feel something as being quite nice to the touch while the nose is able to detect an offensive smell for instance) - it's understandable that we will have different perspectives.

What grieves me is the hostility when those differences are seen. Arguments instead of discussion. Hostile reactions instead of measured responses in love.

Instead of working like a body where the hand which has no sight or tough understands what it feels, but is willing to consider what the nose is telling it from a different perspective - it seems more Christians these days get offended by other members of the body telling them that there are other perspectives. We're convinced in our own superior intellect. It seems more Christians are proud, instead of being humble - willing to consider they may be wrong and wanting to understand why someone else who loves the Lord like they do may have a different opinion.

And this isn't just isolated to general Christians. I see it in Christian leaders as well.

That doesn't mean that the other party may be right. They could be deceived. And if so - that deception needs to be revealed.

But even so - it seems many of the responses are done out of anger, heat, and emotion instead of love. I've seen it with the left, universities and debate - and see it in the Church and question who's leading the Church these days, the Lord, or the world.

It also grieves me how so many well meaning and genuine Christians can be so at odds with each other - but to me this is a secondary issue because I figure if we can't get the basics of treating our brothers and sisters in the Lord with respect first, what chance have we of actually getting other more complicated parts of scripture right.

I haven't read through that link yet - so if I'm off topic I apologize.
 

Randy Kluth

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In this current environment, it seems like there is a great deal of division. In this recent post, I'm looking at Ephesians 2:16 -

“Together as one body, Christ reconciled both groups to God by means of his death on the cross, and our hostility toward each other was put to death.” (NLT)

What do you think about this concept when applied to the divisions (political and otherwise) that we see between many Christians today?

Click the link for more of my thoughts about it.
Hostility put to Death

Christ's spirituality is what inspires all of the goodness in mankind. Since all Christians celebrate him as their source of spirituality, we should certainly be able to agree on what unites us. If we learn to "set our minds above, where Christ is," we should be able to dispense with the malcontent that we quickly resort to when offended.

It should be understood that some Christians fall away from the true spirit of Christian love. We should understand that Christians begin in an immature state, and have to grow up in their spirituality. We should understand that we are all weak, to some degree, and need to go easy on one another.
 

quietthinker

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In this current environment, it seems like there is a great deal of division. In this recent post, I'm looking at Ephesians 2:16 -

“Together as one body, Christ reconciled both groups to God by means of his death on the cross, and our hostility toward each other was put to death.” (NLT)

What do you think about this concept when applied to the divisions (political and otherwise) that we see between many Christians today?

Click the link for more of my thoughts about it.
Hostility put to Death
I think people forget they have two ears and one mouth. I also think the cotton wool in their ears has been in too long.
 
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Taken

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I'm looking at Ephesians 2:16 -

“Together as one body, Christ reconciled both groups to God by means of his death on the cross, and our hostility toward each other was put to death.” (NLT)

What do you think about this concept when applied to the divisions (political and otherwise) that we see between many Christians today?

Click the link for more of my thoughts about it.
Hostility put to Death

Eph 2:
[15] Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

[18] For through him we both have access by one Spirit un- to the Father.

What do you think about this concept when applied to the divisions (political and otherwise) that we see between many Christians today?

I personally find a Great difference between:
"Christian" AND "Saved and Born Again Christian".

I believe the difference is Blurred among People calling themselves Christians and others (not only Blurred, but Very confusing) who are Observing People who call themselves a Christian.

Christ (the Power of God) certainly has the MIGHT to reconcile A man unto Himself, and BY that such Act, "that man" has Access BY ONE Spirit "TO" the Father.

As a Saved soul and Born Again in the spirit Converted man, (according TO the WAY, revealed IN Scripture), I Trust to Believe ^ That preceding paragraph is absolutely True.

I do not believe that is True, by simplicity of one simply calling themselves a "Christian".

And thus there IS Great differences IN discussions, Great differences in sources for verifications, and thus disagreements.

I believe The Two largest well known sects of Christianity Christians:
Protestants-
Catholics-
While having Belief in One Lord God;
Have huge differences-

Which is similar to;
Islam Muslims:
Shiites-
Sunnis-
While having Belief in 1 God and 1 Prophet;
Have huge differences-

In both cases; Christianity / Islam the DIVISION weighs heavily on (centuries) of SOURCE differences.

IMO- it is Individuals who must decide what they are willing to Trust.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Irwin Fletcher

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I'm heavily grieved by it myself personally.

I know as Christians we are going to see things differently from one another. Our priorities, our experiences, and even our place in the body. (The hand may feel something as being quite nice to the touch while the nose is able to detect an offensive smell for instance) - it's understandable that we will have different perspectives.

What grieves me is the hostility when those differences are seen. Arguments instead of discussion. Hostile reactions instead of measured responses in love.

Instead of working like a body where the hand which has no sight or tough understands what it feels, but is willing to consider what the nose is telling it from a different perspective - it seems more Christians these days get offended by other members of the body telling them that there are other perspectives. We're convinced in our own superior intellect. It seems more Christians are proud, instead of being humble - willing to consider they may be wrong and wanting to understand why someone else who loves the Lord like they do may have a different opinion.

And this isn't just isolated to general Christians. I see it in Christian leaders as well.

That doesn't mean that the other party may be right. They could be deceived. And if so - that deception needs to be revealed.

But even so - it seems many of the responses are done out of anger, heat, and emotion instead of love. I've seen it with the left, universities and debate - and see it in the Church and question who's leading the Church these days, the Lord, or the world.

It also grieves me how so many well meaning and genuine Christians can be so at odds with each other - but to me this is a secondary issue because I figure if we can't get the basics of treating our brothers and sisters in the Lord with respect first, what chance have we of actually getting other more complicated parts of scripture right.

I haven't read through that link yet - so if I'm off topic I apologize.
No, you're good. There are 2 additional issues that I think are relevant to this topic that aren't mentioned in the article:

1. The issue of disputable matters. Christians need to be taught to better differentiate between core doctrines and disputable matters. We should be willing to call fellow (local) believers into account when they violate and teach against the core teaching of Scripture, but we should learn to show grace in disputable matters. People tell stories of churches splitting over the color of the carpet or church softball game. "My brothers, this must not be". Issues of little theological importance are one of the main areas where hostility must be put to death.

2. Christian national tribalism. The bulk of our faith should be lived out in a local context, not a national or social media context (I say as I write this on an internet forum). The more relationship exists, the more Scriptural authority we have to understand the situation and actually provide accountability. "Cancelling" famous pastors or Christian leaders has no Biblical support. When we hear of someone who is supposedly a believer and we have no personal relationship with them, 99%+ of anything productive we could do on their behalf involves prayer. None of it involves gossip or slander.
 

Irwin Fletcher

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Christ's spirituality is what inspires all of the goodness in mankind. Since all Christians celebrate him as their source of spirituality, we should certainly be able to agree on what unites us. If we learn to "set our minds above, where Christ is," we should be able to dispense with the malcontent that we quickly resort to when offended.

It should be understood that some Christians fall away from the true spirit of Christian love. We should understand that Christians begin in an immature state, and have to grow up in their spirituality. We should understand that we are all weak, to some degree, and need to go easy on one another.

I agree, a lot more is written about showing grace and love to one another than correcting one another. Both can be Biblical, but I have a feeling God definitely knew we didn't need encouragement to bring judgement on others.
 

Randy Kluth

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I agree, a lot more is written about showing grace and love to one another than correcting one another. Both can be Biblical, but I have a feeling God definitely knew we didn't need encouragement to bring judgement on others.

;) true that is! The real challenge to me personally is learning how to properly critique others, without being too heavy-handed or rude. There is no one "nice" way to correct someone. Some deserve a high level of politeness. Others like the "direct approach," without all of the encumbering niceties. And it depends on how serious the issue is. A more important matter deserves to have the appropriate "intensity."
 

marks

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;) true that is! The real challenge to me personally is learning how to properly critique others, without being too heavy-handed or rude. There is no one "nice" way to correct someone. Some deserve a high level of politeness. Others like the "direct approach," without all of the encumbering niceties. And it depends on how serious the issue is. A more important matter deserves to have the appropriate "intensity."
But there is a perfect way, and that is to allow the Holy Spirit to correct. We need to be sensitive to our own proclivities, and to what is the Holy Spirit's leading.

I write many words that I then go back and delete, as I pause to consider what I'm writing. If I can be at peace that I'm truly speaking only for the other person's benefit, after that is where I just have to trust that God is working through me, and that my words will bring grace. But I can certainly in the meantime weed out those words that crept in for some kind of self promotion, or self affirmation (that includes criticism).

Much love!
 

Irwin Fletcher

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But there is a perfect way, and that is to allow the Holy Spirit to correct. We need to be sensitive to our own proclivities, and to what is the Holy Spirit's leading.

I write many words that I then go back and delete, as I pause to consider what I'm writing. If I can be at peace that I'm truly speaking only for the other person's benefit, after that is where I just have to trust that God is working through me, and that my words will bring grace. But I can certainly in the meantime weed out those words that crept in for some kind of self promotion, or self affirmation (that includes criticism).

Much love!
One of the wiser older believers who invested in my life said, "An hour spent in prayer for someone is better than multiple hours spent talking to them, trying to change their perspective/opinion". That is the work of the HS.
 

Irwin Fletcher

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;) true that is! The real challenge to me personally is learning how to properly critique others, without being too heavy-handed or rude. There is no one "nice" way to correct someone. Some deserve a high level of politeness. Others like the "direct approach," without all of the encumbering niceties. And it depends on how serious the issue is. A more important matter deserves to have the appropriate "intensity."
That's so true about it being individual. It is also cultural. For example, most southerners are taught that only indirect communication is polite. When I was a pastor, I encouraged the members of our congregation to "invite people" into their lives so that they might encourage others to give spiritual correction. It is better when solicited, but that requires a very high degree of spiritual maturity.
 

Randy Kluth

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But there is a perfect way, and that is to allow the Holy Spirit to correct. We need to be sensitive to our own proclivities, and to what is the Holy Spirit's leading.

I write many words that I then go back and delete, as I pause to consider what I'm writing. If I can be at peace that I'm truly speaking only for the other person's benefit, after that is where I just have to trust that God is working through me, and that my words will bring grace. But I can certainly in the meantime weed out those words that crept in for some kind of self promotion, or self affirmation (that includes criticism).

Much love!

True, but have you been in places where nothing you say, not the way you say it, can prevent an avalanche of provocation? There aren't always simple answers, or THE way, because we aren't perfect, and God has a right to put us anywhere He wants, for our good. But yes, good advice! I've tried to do the same. The way I see it is we have good seasons and bad seasons, and we are to be useful, both in season and out of season. :)
 

Randy Kluth

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That's so true about it being individual. It is also cultural. For example, most southerners are taught that only indirect communication is polite. When I was a pastor, I encouraged the members of our congregation to "invite people" into their lives so that they might encourage others to give spiritual correction. It is better when solicited, but that requires a very high degree of spiritual maturity.

Truly wise! We do need to be in fellowship where other believers, led by the Lord, can see our errors better than we can see them ourselves. The average member in a congregation is likely to be less than mature enough to invite correction. But we can encourage them to pursue Christian fellowship regularly, and the Holy Spirit will do His part.

Learning how to develop spirituality and good character is the product of a growing, healthy church and good leadership. Bottom line: we all must do our part, and respond to the Holy Spirit.
 

historyb

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In this current environment, it seems like there is a great deal of division. In this recent post, I'm looking at Ephesians 2:16 -

“Together as one body, Christ reconciled both groups to God by means of his death on the cross, and our hostility toward each other was put to death.” (NLT)

What do you think about this concept when applied to the divisions (political and otherwise) that we see between many Christians today?

Click the link for more of my thoughts about it.
Hostility put to Death

How can unity have unity with disunity?
 
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MattMooradian

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There is more animosity in the world right now than I have ever seen in my 61 years. People are cruel to each other, mean and nasty. Divisions over politics, masks, social gatherings, etc. People need to be more tolerant of other people's choices and beliefs. But, many seem to demonize the other side of a debate. As if the people who do not believe like us are shameful people.

Seems like a lot of petty bickering on this site, as well (I've been guilty a time or two, myself). Doctrinal conflicts bore me and seem futile. Bickering about the end times also seems silly , to me. When I was a new Christian I was very interested in end times (my brother, a new Christian, is obsessed with the end times), but I've been led astray too many times with people who claim to have the correct interpretation of Revelations. Now, I just tell myself, "No man knows the day or the hour" - that enables me to throw all end timers into the same boat - they must be wrong if they claim to know the truth. I prefer sharing ideas, considering other's insights, and growing in my understanding of God's plan for humanity.
 
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Randy Kluth

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There is more animosity in the world right now than I have ever seen in my 61 years. People are cruel to each other, mean and nasty. Divisions over politics, masks, social gatherings, etc. People need to be more tolerant of other people's choices and beliefs. But, many seem to demonize the other side of a debate. As if the people who do not believe like us are shameful people.

Seems like a lot of petty bickering on this site, as well (I've been guilty a time or two, myself). Doctrinal conflicts bore me and seem futile. Bickering about the end times also seems silly , to me. When I was a new Christian I was very interested in end times (my brother, a new Christian, is obsessed with the end times), but I've been led astray too many times with people who claim to have the correct interpretation of Revelations. Now, I just tell myself, "No man knows the day or the hour" - that enables me to throw all end timers into the same boat - they must be wrong if they claim to know the truth. I prefer sharing ideas, considering other's insights, and growing in my understanding of God's plan for humanity.

Sounds like you're just growing more comfortable with being who you are. We can be so individualistic and different from one another. As much as I might think everyone likes sci fi and catastrophe movies like me, many likely don't. Some love documentaries. I don't. We're all different, and only the Holy Spirit can fit all of the parts of the Body of Christ together.

I'm unaffected by doctrinal conflicts--I've been doing it for a very long time. I do it to learn and also to help others where I've been helped. Some are all about spiritual counselling, others about teaching, some about healing. We just have got to find our place. There's a number of options on this site--pick where you need to learn and minister most effectively.

About the times, though, keep in mind that it was foretold in prophecy. There is a plan to this madness. God reaches out to people in their lost state. They get it and grow, spreading the truth to others. And then the society falters, and the leadership turns hostile to Christianity. The society slowly gets infected with selfishness and gets addicted to corruption.

This process began with Israel, and ends with the nations, in the gradual path towards world evangelization. Christian society today, European and otherwise, is now in the stage in which bad leadership tries to take control and the society becomes addicted to sin and resistant to truth. The result is division.

Just as on this website there are mature Christians and bad Christians, or even nonChristians who think they are Christians, so in the world there are all kinds. And those who get attracted to their own way and to bad things become hostile towards the good. Expect it. But even here we're supposed to keep on ministering grace. We shouldn't change no matter what the outcome.
 
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Irwin Fletcher

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There is more animosity in the world right now than I have ever seen in my 61 years. People are cruel to each other, mean and nasty. Divisions over politics, masks, social gatherings, etc. People need to be more tolerant of other people's choices and beliefs. But, many seem to demonize the other side of a debate. As if the people who do not believe like us are shameful people.

Seems like a lot of petty bickering on this site, as well (I've been guilty a time or two, myself). Doctrinal conflicts bore me and seem futile. Bickering about the end times also seems silly , to me. When I was a new Christian I was very interested in end times (my brother, a new Christian, is obsessed with the end times), but I've been led astray too many times with people who claim to have the correct interpretation of Revelations. Now, I just tell myself, "No man knows the day or the hour" - that enables me to throw all end timers into the same boat - they must be wrong if they claim to know the truth. I prefer sharing ideas, considering other's insights, and growing in my understanding of God's plan for humanity.

Unfortunately, we definitely see far too much of this. The post I put up to start this thread actually came out of a discussion centered around what you are talking about: Who is that masked man…or woman?

I had heard of great division, even within the same local church over the mask issue. This is definitely a disputable matter when it comes to the Church, something that should not divide believers. I guess each of us can model our own showing of grace for one another and advise others to do the same, but each believer does have free will to act out on their own, even against clear commands of Scripture.
 
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Hidden In Him

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One of the wiser older believers who invested in my life said, "An hour spent in prayer for someone is better than multiple hours spent talking to them, trying to change their perspective/opinion". That is the work of the HS.


This is a very good post. Let me interject something, however, to get your take on things. I approach the issue of correction from the perspective of seeking to keep this forum from being overrun by the enemy. Most all other Christian Forums have already been deeply compromised in one way or another, whether through stiflingly strict rules or dictatorial control. The attacks here have come in two forms primarily: The generation of continual and escalating strife, and the overthrow of the forum through corrupt and heretical teaching. Both tactics have come close to destroying this forum in the past, and I speak as one to whom the Spirit revealed it would take place in advance. Not only was it prophesied that massive amounts of doctrinal heresy would nearly blow the community apart, but we would lose some prominent members (one in particular), and we did.

I have seen a similar "storm" take place recently that generated a great deal of strife over Catholic issues, but it looks like we may have survived that one without casualties. Yet not without my having to get on three different members very strongly, and the fact that I think the moderator may have also addressed at least one them and banned him from the forum.

But my comment is this: The business of protecting a forum involves more than simply prayer, though prayer certainly makes it easier. But it has to involve correction, sometimes very strong correction. In NT times, such correction occasionally involved the threat of death to those who continued to walk in blatant disobedience to the Lord. As for us, in a format like this, there have been rare occasions when the Lord has had me warn some about their eternal welfare (sincerely, not as some empty accusation), but on numerous occasions I have had to come down on people and come down on them very hard.

What would your thoughts be on this, in light of your contentions in the OP?

God bless, and welcome to our forum. I enjoy your posts and your website looks very well-presented.
Hidden In Him
 
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