Perpetual virginity of Mary!

theefaith · Sep 25, 2020

Spurgeon's Girl said:
The other poster may have engaged in wrong doing, but it doesn't matter. Jesus said this: In Matthew 5:38–39, Jesus says, “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.”

We all get frustrated and lose our tempers, but there are unbelievers who lurk on forums. What kind of example are we setting for them?

why are you spurgeon’s girl and Jesus’s girl?

Jane_Doe22 · Sep 25, 2020

theefaith said:
the truth must prevail!

where did they get this idea in the first place? The Bible alone!

theefaith said:
And why can’t they defend it from the Bible alone?

This is silly.

The Sola Scriptura approach is "If it's part of God's saving Truths, then it would be recorded in the Bible." Anything which isn't part of God's saving Truths aren't recorded in the Bible. Marian doctrines aren't in there, therefore aren't on the guest list of God's saving Truths.

And frankly: I find this entire obsession about how often a particular married couple have sexual relationships to be very creepy.

theefaith · Sep 25, 2020

Taken said:
I spoke for myself, not you.

The trinity is a concept in trying to Identify the Wholeness of God, in layman terms.

Trying to use laymans terms as literal explanations of A Spiritual God...becomes Weird.

God is not literally PERSONS number 1,2,3!!!
God is Spirit...Period.
God is All Powerful...Period.

How God communicates with mankind is At His pleasure...It does NOT Change God.

God DID NOT Literally Enter Marys Womb and hang out for 9 months!

WHAT Entered Marys Womb...by the Power of God...

Was....a Holy Thing!
Guess God could have Sent a Written Copy of a Holy Thing...

But His Choice was to Send "The Holy Thing"..
Which IS "Gods Holy Word"...
IN a Body...God Prepared...
That Looked Like a human man...
Would be Accepted by human men...
Would Teach ignorant mankind...Gods Holy Word!!

If you think that Holy Thing - IS The Word of God- IS God...then Stop pretending He was procreated from a human woman.
He was Revealed by a Virgin Woman...
You should Learn WHY, that was Necessary.

Luke 1
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Heb 2
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

John 1
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God , and the Word was God.

Phil 2:
[5] Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
[6] Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in [/B] the likeness of men:[/B]
[8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Glory to God,
Taken

God is not real persons? Why am I a person made in the image and likeness of God? The word was made flesh, He is not a Ghost?

Jesus is a real person made flesh in and thru Mary!

theefaith · Sep 25, 2020

Jane_Doe22 said:
This is silly.

The Sola Scriptura approach is "If it's part of God's saving Truths, then it would be recorded in the Bible." Anything which isn't part of God's saving Truths aren't recorded in the Bible. Marian doctrines aren't in there, therefore aren't on the guest list of God's saving Truths.

And frankly: I find this entire obsession about how often a particular married couple have sexual relationships to be very creepy.

where does the Bible say only the saving truths are there?

the Virgin birth is there?
Joseph is the father of Jesus is there?
Is the church the pillar and foundation of truth a saving truth?
Is the fact that Peter is the first apostle a saving truth?

Jane_Doe22 · Sep 25, 2020

theefaith said:
where does the Bible say only the saving truths are there?

the Virgin birth is there?
Joseph is the father of Jesus is there?
Is the church the pillar and foundation of truth a saving truth?
Is the fact that Peter is the first apostle a saving truth?

Talk to a person whom believes Sola Scriptura if you want Sola Scriptura answers.

I do not believe that. I also don't find a single thing in the Bible that says "Jane, you should be Catholic." And having consulted God myself & scriptura, the conclusion is that no, I should not be Catholic and it is different than God's Truths. There are many good things in the Catholic church, but no, I don't remotely find it to be the church Christ founded.

theefaith · Sep 25, 2020

Spurgeon's Girl said:
The other poster may have engaged in wrong doing, but it doesn't matter. Jesus said this: In Matthew 5:38–39, Jesus says, “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.”

We all get frustrated and lose our tempers, but there are unbelievers who lurk on forums. What kind of example are we setting for them?

Spurgeon adopted John Calvin's heresy that says Jesus did not die for all men. In sharp contrast, the Bible teaches in John 3:16 care to explain?
And baptism by immersion, ez 36:25-27?

theefaith · Sep 25, 2020

Jane_Doe22 said:
Talk to a person whom believes Sola Scriptura if you want Sola Scriptura answers.

I do not believe that. I also don't find a single thing in the Bible that says "Jane, you should be Catholic." And having consulted God myself & scriptura, the conclusion is that no, I should not be Catholic and it is different than God's Truths. There are many good things in the Catholic church, but no, I don't remotely find it to be the church Christ founded.

Major covenants!

Adam:
(Marriage covenant)

Noah:
(Family covenant)

Abraham:
(Tribal covenant)

Moses:
(National covenant)

Jesus Christ:
(Universal covenant)

New and eternal covenant founded by Jesus Christ! Matt 16:18 matt 18:18

Universal (Catholic) Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16

What covenant is Joseph Smith mediator of?

Jane_Doe22 · Sep 25, 2020

theefaith said:
Major covenants!

Adam:
(Marriage covenant)

Noah:
(Family covenant)

Abraham:
(Tribal covenant)

Moses:
(National covenant)

Jesus Christ:
(Universal covenant)

New and eternal covenant founded by Jesus Christ! Matt 16:18 matt 18:18

Universal (Catholic) Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16

What covenant is Joseph Smith mediator of?

Zero of that actually has anything to do with what I wrote.

theefaith · Sep 25, 2020

Jane_Doe22 said:
Zero of that actually has anything to do with what I wrote.

the new and eternal covenant is catholic

Jane_Doe22 · Sep 25, 2020

theefaith said:
the new and eternal covenant is catholic

I acknowledge your belief that the new and everlasting covenant is the Catholic Church.

However, needless to say, I do not agree that belief.

Taken · Sep 25, 2020

theefaith said:
God is not real persons? Why am I a person made in the image and likeness of God? The word was made flesh, He is not a Ghost?

Jesus is a real person made flesh in and thru Mary!

A person? A person is-
a human being regarded as an individual.

Human beings are Created from elements/Dust of the CREATED Earth.

Your Creator IS His own Creation...a human being of Dust?

I made the point, the Trinity is man's best effort to identify in laymen terms the fullness of God.

Pretending you can limit the Fullness of God TO laymans Terms, is a Fail.

God is Spirit, has multiple Names, Titles, is Unseen, Unheard...all powerful, Everywhere, All knowing so...Explain God to me...

^ you can't. And Why men do the best they can with layman terms...while Knowing the Fullness of God...is not for us To SEE...Yet.

Glory to God,
Taken

Spurgeon's Girl · Sep 25, 2020

Candidus said:
Paul wasn't a Gnostic.

????? I don't believe that Paul was a gnostic either.!

Spurgeon's Girl · Sep 25, 2020

theefaith said:
Spurgeon adopted John Calvin's heresy that says Jesus did not die for all men. In sharp contrast, the Bible teaches in John 3:16 care to explain?
And baptism by immersion, ez 36:25-27?

I can and I will be happy to explain it, because. . . it comes right from the Bible. St. Augustine agreed.

Jesus did not die for all men. He died for believers and they were chosen before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:3-11English Standard Version (ESV)

Spiritual Blessings in Christ

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

Let's see what John 3:16 means in the context of the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus.

It's helpful to understand the Greek word for "whosoever" is 'pas'. In the context of this verse it means more than one individual. It is collective.

From BlueletterBible. G3956 - pas - Strong's Greek Lexicon (NKJV)

Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

individually
1. each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
collectively
1. some of all types

Jesus himself didn't say everyone had a choice to believe. He said that those who would be chosen would be drawn by God the Father.

John 6:44
English Standard Version

44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Baptism by immersion was acceptable to Jesus, it should be good enough everyone. I can't imagine why Catholics would not want to emulate the actions of Jesus Christ. I know why and I'm guessing you will take it to heart.

I'm happy to discuss this with you as long as we can do so within the rules.

God speed.

farouk · Sep 25, 2020

Spurgeon's Girl said:
I can and I will be happy to explain it, because. . . it comes right from the Bible. St. Augustine agreed.

Jesus did not die for all men. He died for believers and they were chosen before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:3-11English Standard Version (ESV)

Spiritual Blessings in Christ

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

Let's see what John 3:16 means in the context of the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus.

It's helpful to understand the Greek word for "whosoever" is 'pas'. In the context of this verse it means more than one individual. It is collective.

From BlueletterBible. G3956 - pas - Strong's Greek Lexicon (NKJV)

Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

individually

each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything

collectively

some of all types

Jesus himself didn't say everyone had a choice to believe. He said that those who would be chosen would be drawn by God the Father.

John 6:44
English Standard Version

44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Baptism by immersion was acceptable to Jesus, it should be good enough everyone. I can't imagine why Catholics would not want to emulate the actions of Jesus Christ. I know why and I'm guessing you will take it to heart.

I'm happy to discuss this with you as long as we can do so within the rules.

God speed.

@Spurgeon's Girl Such verses in John 6 are very searching and often overlooked.

Spurgeon's Girl · Sep 25, 2020

farouk said:
@Spurgeon's Girl Such verses in John 6 are very searching and often overlooked.

There are many of these verses that get ignored. I used to do the same thing. Over time I became more serious about my Bible study.

Spurgeon's Girl · Sep 25, 2020

Mungo said:
I gave you 8 points to consider.
You simply have no answer to them.

You could have left 800. But none of them refute what the Bible says. Jesus had brothers.

Spurgeon's Girl · Sep 25, 2020

theefaith said:
Martin Luther

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

John Calvin

(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)

Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])

John Wesley

‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).

St Augustine, Sermons 186.1 (early 5th century):

“It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?”
St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III.28.3 (13th century):

"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children.
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For, in the first place, this is derogatory to Christ's perfection: for as He is in His Godhead the Only-Begotten of the Father, being thus His Son in every respect perfect, so it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring.

“Secondly, this error is an insult to the Holy Ghost, whose "shrine" was the virginal womb, wherein He had formed the flesh of Christ: wherefore it was unbecoming that it should be desecrated by intercourse with man.

“Thirdly, this is derogatory to the dignity and holiness of God's Mother: for thus she would seem to be most ungrateful, were she not content with such a Son; and were she, of her own accord, by carnal intercourse to forfeit that virginity which had been miraculously preserved in her.

“Fourthly, it would be tantamount to an imputation of extreme presumption in Joseph, to assume that he attempted to violate her whom by the angel's revelation he knew to have conceived by the Holy Ghost.

“We must therefore simply assert that the Mother of God, as she was a virgin in conceiving Him and a virgin in giving Him birth, did she remain a virgin ever afterwards."

My goodness. Not a single scripture to support any of this. I believe I have told you that unless you have scripture to show me, I'm not interested. I don't care what every sinner has to say. I believe what the Bible says.

So, unless you want to show this for the benefit of others, don't waste your time.

Martin Luther isn't the Bible and neither is John Calvin. I don't follow what they say. I agree with some of their attestations, not all.

BTW, If you believe that you can prevail by trying to dirty up others, it's a fallacy. You stay in a church that is filthy with sexual sin so perhaps you might want to check your motives.

Renniks · Sep 25, 2020

theefaith said:
God is not real persons? Why am I a person made in the image and likeness of God? The word was made flesh, He is not a Ghost?

Jesus is a real person made flesh in and thru Mary!

Jesus always existed, so how can anyone literally be his mother?

Spurgeon's Girl · Sep 25, 2020

Renniks said:
Jesus always existed, so how can anyone literally be his mother?

Exactly right.

A few years back, a Catholic tried to convince me that Holy Spirit was the spouse of Mary. This was a new bit of nonsense for me, and I was horrified at such an image. No exaggeration, I almost threw up. Offensive in the extreme.

Spurgeon's Girl · Sep 25, 2020

Jane_Doe22 said:
This is silly.

The Sola Scriptura approach is "If it's part of God's saving Truths, then it would be recorded in the Bible." Anything which isn't part of God's saving Truths aren't recorded in the Bible. Marian doctrines aren't in there, therefore aren't on the guest list of God's saving Truths.

And frankly: I find this entire obsession about how often a particular married couple have sexual relationships to be very creepy.

It is creepy. It's like the Catholic fascination for dead bodies. They bury and rebury them and on and on and on. Ritual nonsense.

Perpetual virginity of Mary!

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