Where Does Your Soul Go The Instant You Die?

Brother Mike said:

Now fivesense...............Someone just corrected what I said about the body being resurrected, then you go say it again.



JerryJohnson said that.



So, which one is it??? Resurrection or no resurrection.

It can't be both.

Jesus Is Lord

Click to expand...

Did I miss something? Is the resurrection past already, and I erred?But shun profane [and] vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 2Ti 2:16-18

Kinda hard to be resurrected without a body to resurrect, isn't it? I lean more towards the word on this one, that the dead are just that, dead. Whether its David, or Peter or Paul, saint or sinner, they're all dead and buried til the resurrection. Otherwise ya hafta join the Hymenaeus/Philetus Theological Consortium and get your reward for what you teach.
fivesense

I'll stick with the Word, And is case God has a sense of humor (He does) I am going to loose weight. Don't want them telling me they don't have those white robes in my size.


Good post Fivesense!!!!!!

Mike, I will attempt to help you understand this:

Brother Mike said:

Now fivesense...............Someone just corrected what I said about the body being resurrected, then you go say it again.

fivesense said:

When we're raised out from among the dead, and corruptible puts on incorruption, we will have our bodies back, albeit radically changed.

Click to expand...

jerryjohnson said:

JerryJohnson said that
3) Once we die our flesh body (corruptible) returns to dust, never to be used again. It does not come up out of the dust. It is not needed any more. When we die we put back on our spiritual bodies, the incorruptible body.

Click to expand...

So, which one is it??? Resurrection or no resurrection.

It can't be both.

Jesus Is Lord

Click to expand...

It is not a question of "Resurrection or no resurrection." The questions are more; what and when?


1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible(G5349) must put on incorruption (G861), and this mortal (G2349) must put on immortality (G610).
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
1Co 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

G5349
φθαρτός
phthartos
fthar-tos'
From G5351; decayed, that is, (by implication) perishable: - corruptible.

G861
ἀφθαρσία
aphtharsia
af-thar-see'-ah
From G862; incorruptibility; generally unending existence; (figuratively) genuineness: - immortality, incorruption, sincerity.

G862
ἄφθαρτος
aphthartos
af'-thar-tos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and a derivative of G5351; undecaying (in essence or continuance): - not (in-, un-) corruptible, immortal.


G2349
θνητός
thnētos
thnay-tos'
From G2348; liable to die: - mortal (-ity).

G110
ἀθανασία
athanasia
ath-an-as-ee'-ah
From a compound of G1 (as a negative particle) and G2288; deathlessness: - immortality.


Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body (this is the flesh body), but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


I am saying that when we die we immediately put our spiritual body back on and return to the Father. (Remember, we are made in the image of God, we have three parts.) That is the body we had before we entered the womb and were born into these flesh bodies. Our flesh bodies were never meant to last forever, they are corruptible. It is the difference between corruptible and incorruption.

If fivesense is saying that these flesh bodies come out of the ground in any way, I disagree. If he is saying the body we will have is a spiritual body, not flesh, we are saying a very similar thing, fs' timing is just off

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

This is what my Bible says..............................

Our body is not our own, and just as important as the spirit and soul. Our body was bought and paid for with a price.





1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Co 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.


Every Body is planted like a seed, and everyone has his own seed God uses for the new body.

1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.


Our image of the earthly, shall also bear the image of Heaven, and this mortal Puts on the immortal. So what used to be mortal, becomes immortal. Our spirit is already immortal, our soul is immortal, already, so we must be talking about this seed, or our body.

However, This was good enough for me.................. No need to look up all that Greek.

Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted (As a seed) together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Now when Jesus came back, the hole they put in his hand was still there. SAME BODY!!!!!! We are also told that we are going to be in the same likeness of His resurrection. SAME BODY.

I hope I have helped you figure this out JerryJohnson.

Be Blessed.

Jesus Is Lord

Brother Mike said:

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

This is what my Bible says..............................

Our body is not our own, and just as important as the spirit and soul. Our body was bought and paid for with a price.





1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Co 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.


Every Body is planted like a seed, and everyone has his own seed God uses for the new body.

1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.


Our image of the earthly, shall also bear the image of Heaven, and this mortal Puts on the immortal. So what used to be mortal, becomes immortal. Our spirit is already immortal, our soul is immortal, already, so we must be talking about this seed, or our body.

However, This was good enough for me.................. No need to look up all that Greek.

Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted (As a seed) together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Now when Jesus came back, the hole they put in his hand was still there. SAME BODY!!!!!! We are also told that we are going to be in the same likeness of His resurrection. SAME BODY.

I hope I have helped you figure this out JerryJohnson.

Be Blessed.

Jesus Is Lord

Click to expand...

So you think Christ's resurrected body was flesh, is that right. 1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Oh well!

No, I did not say that............................The Scripture I gave does not say that. All I was saying is that Where your body is at is important to God. Your body does matter as that is the seed that will be used for the resurrection. You get your body back, but changed, just as Jesus did.

So, you will look very similar in Heaven like you do now. People that you know, will know you, and you them.

Please also note that on a forum setting, it's possible to come close on agreeing with someone, or even agree completely but not realize it after several post. A lot of times we are beating the same drum but don't even realize it.

Jesus Is Lord

Brother Mike said:

No, I did not say that............................The Scripture I gave does not say that. All I was saying is that Where your body is at is important to God. Your body does matter as that is the seed that will be used for the resurrection. You get your body back, but changed, just as Jesus did.

So, you will look very similar in Heaven like you do now. People that you know, will know you, and you them.

Please also note that on a forum setting, it's possible to come close on agreeing with someone, or even agree completely but not realize it after several post. A lot of times we are beating the same drum but don't even realize it.

Jesus Is Lord

Click to expand...

OK, SO IF YOU ARE MALE NOW, you'll be a male in heaven?

my bible says that in heaven you are neither male nor female.

Wafuwasi, welcome here, btw.

I am speechless at what I've read above.

My answer pure and simple is I don't know.

But, if I wanted to get an idea I personally would go to the horses mouth.
To people - many people who have been declared medically, clinically dead - children
and adults from suicides to car accidents - and see what they have said.

You can, of course, decide it's all hooey ---but it sure makes more sense then the stuff above I've read.

If you're scared to read anything but the Bible and really have a burning to know still,
my advice is die and see and don't listen to anybody who hasn't been there.

Miss Hepburn

Miss Hepburn said:

Wafuwasi, welcome here, btw.

I am speechless at what I've read above.

My answer pure and simple is I don't know.

But, if I wanted to get an idea I personally would go to the horses mouth.
To people - many people who have been declared medically, clinically dead - children
and adults from suicides to car accidents - and see what they have said.

You can, of course, decide it's all hooey ---but it sure makes more sense then the stuff above I've read.

If you're scared to read anything but the Bible and really have a burning to know still,
my advice is die and see and don't listen to anybody who hasn't been there.

Miss Hepburn

Click to expand...

Everyone's flesh body will die, even those that are here to hear the last trumpet. Their flesh body falls off and we meet Christ in our incorruptible bodies.

Sniper 762 ??????? You jumping on JerryJohnson view?? Sort of a Surprise to come out of Nowhere like that.

First I don't fully understand the position We are taking here. I am saying our old dead body is as a seed and Resurrected back as a new body. To Resurrect something means to bring back. I gave scripture that we are to be like Jesus own Resurrection. He came back in his Glorified body.

Now we have a new thing. There are no Males or Females in Heaven, Your bible says that.

my bible says that in heaven you are neither male nor female.

Click to expand...

I don't know of any scripture that states that. If you have it, please share.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

This is as close as I can find, but it's not talking about there not being any gender in Heaven. It's saying we that are in Christ are all Abraham's seed, and have a right to all the promises given to Abraham. It starts the moment you accept Jesus. Look at the above scripture.

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Are there female Christians? of course. So, this is the only scripture I could find...

Jesus Is Lord

Brother Mike said:

Sniper 762 ??????? You jumping on JerryJohnson view?? Sort of a Surprise to come out of Nowhere like that.

First I don't fully understand the position We are taking here. I am saying our old dead body is as a seed and Resurrected back as a new body. To Resurrect something means to bring back. I gave scripture that we are to be like Jesus own Resurrection. He came back in his Glorified body.

Now we have a new thing. There are no Males or Females in Heaven, Your bible says that.



I don't know of any scripture that states that. If you have it, please share.


Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

This is as close as I can find, but it's not talking about there not being any gender in Heaven. It's saying we that are in Christ are all Abraham's seed, and have a right to all the promises given to Abraham. It starts the moment you accept Jesus. Look at the above scripture.

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Are there female Christians? of course. So, this is the only scripture I could find...

Jesus Is Lord

Click to expand...

My interpretation of heaven is derived from reading god’s entire word. although not specifically spelled out, these are just a couple scripyures that give me my view:
1st cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that aflesh and bblood cannot cinherit the kingdom of God; neither doth dcorruption inherit incorruption.
John 4:24 aGod is a bSpirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in ctruth.
If flesh and bones cannot enter heaven (god’s domain), then neither can there be male or female.
I invision spiritual beings only, just like god.

sniper762 said:

My interpretation of heaven is derived from reading god’s entire word. although not specifically spelled out, these are just a couple scripyures that give me my view:
1st cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that aflesh and bblood cannot cinherit the kingdom of God; neither doth dcorruption inherit incorruption.
John 4:24 aGod is a bSpirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in ctruth.
If flesh and bones cannot enter heaven (god’s domain), then neither can there be male or female.
I invision spiritual beings only, just like god.

Click to expand...

Also consider this:
Mat 22:24 Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
Mat 22:25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:
Mat 22:26 Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.
Mat 22:27 And last of all the woman died also.
Mat 22:28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.
Mat 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

And: We are the bride of Christ.

And: God created man in His image, “male and female.”

Maybe we just don’t know that yet.

Ah, I can see where your coming from JerryJohnson.................

OK, the view makes sense........... I am looking at our resurrection to be like Jesus, but then I might be limiting the Lord and Ourselves the ability to appear as we wish.

The only issue which may be the "We are not sure yet." part is that God is a Spirit. Our spirits where created like him. We are like God, and above the angel class. God does not have a Body though. Then again we don't have a body because that's just a earth suit and we are spirits.

However, If we become like the angles, they have male names and appear in physical form, and do physical things. Still they are spirits................God did create male and female, but apparently it was for a help meet, and to procreate.

Ummmmmmm......

JerryJohnson, It would appear that your scriptural evidence has skewed my Doctrine some. I still believe God will us our body, as he did Jesus. I have a scripture for that, but the rest of this. I will have to change and now just say what John said.

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Thank you for taking the time to explain things with scripture, and I have to say that you have a very good point.

Be blessed.

Jesus Is Lord

Just to put the frosting on: (This is a group I enjoy)

Jesus Is Still The Answer ~ Phil, Kim and Brooklyn Collingsworth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlQSA3fv6kY&feature=PlayList&p=5E9A3612699B9DD9&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=1

The Collingsworths sing Fear Not Tomorrow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajdvoYQIZ7w&feature=related

jerryjohnson said:

So you think Christ's resurrected body was flesh, is that right. 1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Click to expand...

Oh well!

Click to expand...

Okay, let's try to unravel some scripture so we can
see the purpose of the Resurrection.

The first and most important pattern is that Jesus was
raised bodily from the tomb. The disciples came to the
tomb to look for Him, but He had risen. His resurrection
was NOT the same thing as His ascension, or going to
heaven. It was a physical, literal event, “as He said”
(Matt. 28:6). In other words, when Jesus talked of the
resurrection prior to that time, He meant to convey the
literal meaning of the term, not a “spiritual” event in the
sense that some take it.

The only real question is “with what body do they come?”
(1 Cor. 15:35? Is the resurrected body physical or spiritual?
The answer is: BOTH. He had a heavenly Father and an
earthly mother, and the resurrected body was the
culmination of that relationship. He could enter the spiritual
dimension (“heaven”) or the physical, earthly dimension at
will. His Father had given Him all authority in BOTH realms,
even as He said in Matt. 28:18 (NASB),

18 . . . All authority has been given to Me in heaven and
on earth.

As a result, He could take a physical form where the
disciples could touch Him and see the wounds of His
crucifixion (John 20:27). He could also eat food with the
disciples (John 21:13; Luke 24:43). Then He could vanish
(Luke 24:31) just as suddenly by taking spirit form. The
question of whether Jesus was merely a spirit or if He
had physical characteristics is faced and answered
squarely in Luke 24:36-43.

36 And while they [disciples] were telling these things,
He Himself stood in their midst. 37 But they were
startled and frightened and thought that they were
seeing a spirit. 38 And He said to them, Why are you
troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39
See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me,
and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones,
as you see that I have. 40 And when He had said this,
He showed them His hands and His feet. 41 And
while they still could not believe it for joy and were
marveling, He said to them, Have you anything here
to eat? 42 And they gave Him a piece of a broiled
fish; 43 and He took it and ate it before them.

Jesus went out of His way to prove to them that He
was not a spirit and that he had “flesh and bones.”
He showed the disciples His physical scars, which
no spirit would have. Then He asked for something
to eat. A spirit cannot eat physical food.

This is not to say that Jesus was limited by His flesh
to the physical world. The marvel of the moment was
that Jesus, though physical, could move just as freely
in the spiritual dimension as well. He was not confined
to the spirit world, nor was He limited to the physical
world. He had free access to both, because, as we
have already pointed out, He had all authority in both
heaven and earth, the spiritual and the physical realms.

Hope this has helped.

Logabe

Neither male or female? C'mon now. Even all the angels throughout the Bible are described as male and appear as males. One of the fascinating things about the afterlife is that we are human and saved will have a higher rank in heaven than the angels that have never lived as humans. That in and of itself is pretty impressive. And boy are all those heavenly angels going to be exicted when they see all these women in their resurrected bodies. I hope wea ren't going to have another heavenly battle take place because of these dames. :lol:

the angels appeared ON EARTH as male. but were spirits in heaven.

sniper762 said:

the angels appeared ON EARTH as male. but were spirits in heaven.

Click to expand...

And spirit isn't defined. But we also know that demonic angels lusted after the women of earth in Genesis and procreated with them. If angels lusted after women and not men, then I think there's a strong argument to be made that there is a clearly defined gender category for angels that God has created.

The Robster said:

And spirit isn't defined. But we also know that demonic angels lusted after the women of earth in Genesis and procreated with them. If angels lusted after women and not men, then I think there's a strong argument to be made that there is a clearly defined gender category for angels that God has created.

Click to expand...

the angelical spirits KNEW about lust, but could not engage in sexual activities without first coming to earth and assuming an earthly body.

sniper762 said:

the angelical spirits KNEW about lust, but could not engage in sexual activities without first coming to earth and assuming an earthly body.

Click to expand...

in the biblical days, all angels were depicted as males, for women were not concidered worthy enough.

sniper762 said:

the angelical spirits KNEW about lust, but could not engage in sexual activities without first coming to earth and assuming an earthly body.

in the biblical days, all angels were depicted as males, for women were not concidered worthy enough.

Click to expand...

Sorry but that's not a very plausible explanation. And I don't believe for one second that these demonic angels took a fleshly form. Angels appear to be inter-dimensional beings. Whatever "spirit" is, it certainly takes on some material form in our reality. I certainly don't believe that angels are turning themselves into flesh and then back into spirit form. Rather they are capable of manipulating matter in our 10 dimensional world. "Spirit" must enjoy physical properties in our reality similar to that of an earthly body for men to have entertained angels without knowing. Flesh is flesh, spirit is spirit. And there is no scripture that I've ever come across that suggests that angels are male because women were not worthy enough of being angels. It does not compute. I think its evident that in heaven, all angels that God created were in fact male. I think that resurrected women will be the first female angels ever introduced into God's heavenly realm.