How to be saved (born again) and join the family of God!

justbyfaith · Sep 27, 2020

Spurgeon's Girl said:
I can appreciate that you love the Lord.

But on baptism, I believe you are sincerely wrong.

Here are some issues that were raised by Matt Slick at CARM.

Questions for those who believe baptism is necessary for salvation.
by Matt Slick

Was Abraham still in a state of damnation when he believed God and was declared righteous even though he hadn't been circumcised?

Rom. 4:1-5, "What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? 2For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” 4Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness."

Gal. 3:5-7, "Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. 7Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham."

Note: Those who believe in New Testament times are to believe in the person of Christ, his work on the cross, his resurrection, etc.

Rom. 4:5 says that he who believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness. So do you agree that when a person believes, he is righteous in God's sight?

If not, how do you not contradict what the scripture says?

If yes, then baptism isn't necessary; otherwise, they wouldn't be righteous in Christ's sight.

If a person who believes is not declared righteous, then why isn't he?

If a person who believes is declared righteous, then is he righteous without baptism?

Is a sinner who has prayed and asked the Lord Jesus to forgive him of his sins actually forgiven, or is he still in a state of damnation until he gets baptized?

If a person prays and asks Jesus to forgive him of all of his sins, is he forgiven or not?

Jesus said in John 14:14, "If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it."

If he is not forgiven, then aren't you saying that trust and faith in Christ isn't enough?

A ritual is a set of forms and practices. It is a ceremony. Baptism is a ritual, a ceremony where one person administers baptism to another person. Therefore, if you maintain that baptism is necessary for salvation, are you not saying that salvation is by faith and a ritual?

Can you please tell us if such a man who has believed in Christ and received him, yet dies without being baptized goes to eternal damnation?

If you say no, then baptism is not necessary for salvation.

If you say yes, then he is not declared righteous by faith.

As to Romans 8:30, it's one of my favorite scriptures. It's called the golden chain of redemption for a reason.

Romans 8:28-30English Standard Version (ESV)

28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good,[a] for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Who is the person who is doing the calling?

Hi, @Spurgeon's Girl,

Without reading what Matt Slick wrote (I may do so when I have the time), let me assure you that it is not my position that "baptism is necessary for salvation."

My position is that "baptism has the power to save."

I allow for such verses as Romans 10:13 which speak of salvation entirely apart from baptism.

Hope this helps.

amigo de christo · Sep 27, 2020

Truther said:
Hi.

The N.T. was put together in a particular order for folks to understand and obey.

Matt-John was for sinners to believe in the Gospel.

Acts is what they must do since they believe, starting in 2:37-38(what must we do?).

Romans through Revelation(Epistles) is how to remain saved.

It is shocking how many Christians don't realize this, but piecemeal the Bible together and skip Acts.

Every word written is for our good and we ought to just feast on it , embracing it , loving it and growing in the grace
of the wisdom given us in Christ . SING to the KING . When GOD puts HIS LOVE upon our hearts
rest assured it loves every word of TRUTH . Wont skip any part and embraces it all . NOW leap up and let all rejoice in CHRIST .

Spurgeon's Girl · Sep 27, 2020

justbyfaith said:
Hi, @Spurgeon's Girl,

Without reading what Matt Slick wrote (I may do so when I have the time), let me assure you that it is not my position that "baptism is necessary for salvation."

My position is that "baptism has the power to save."

I allow for such verses as Romans 10:13 which speak of salvation entirely apart from baptism.

Hope this helps.

Thank you for the clarification on that. My misunderstanding. Mea Culpa.

I can't agree with you that Baptism saves. This is one of the reasons I reject infant baptism.

justbyfaith · Sep 27, 2020

Spurgeon's Girl said:
Thank you for the clarification on that. My misunderstanding. Mea Culpa.

I can't agree with you that Baptism saves. This is one of the reasons I reject infant baptism.

The Bible is clear that believer's baptism saves (Mark 16:16, 1 Peter 3:20-21, Colossians 2:12-13).

justbyfaith · Sep 27, 2020

Spurgeon's Girl said:

1) baptism is not a work

2) In Acts chapter 10, God was doing a new thing, in that He was seeking to include Gentiles into the fold of Christianity. So, in order to prove that Gentiles could be saved, He baptized them in the Holy Spirit before they were baptized in water, which was a different formula than what He had established in Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39. God departing from this formula did not nullify the formula. Rather, His departure from the formula was accomplished for a specific reason, to include Gentiles into the fold of Christianity. If they had not been first baptized in the Holy Spirit, Peter's cohorts would have never allowed them to be baptized in water.

From the perspective of predestination, God foreknew that these new converts would not fail to be baptized in water. And knowing this, the Lord gave them the gift of the Holy Spirit ahead of time.

Hope this helps.

Spurgeon's Girl · Sep 28, 2020

justbyfaith said:
1) baptism is not a work

2) In Acts chapter 10, God was doing a new thing, in that He was seeking to include Gentiles into the fold of Christianity. So, in order to prove that Gentiles could be saved, He baptized them in the Holy Spirit before they were baptized in water, which was a different formula than what He had established in Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39. God departing from this formula did not nullify the formula. Rather, His departure from the formula was accomplished for a specific reason, to include Gentiles into the fold of Christianity. If they had not been first baptized in the Holy Spirit, Peter's cohorts would have never allowed them to be baptized in water.

From the perspective of predestination, God foreknew that these new converts would not fail to be baptized in water. And knowing this, the Lord gave them the gift of the Holy Spirit ahead of time.

Hope this helps.

I'm sorry friend, the Bible knows nothing of this. If you look at Acts 13:48, you'll see that you are mistaken.

Acts 13:48English Standard Version (ESV)

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

Your idea of foreknowledge is common but it's not correct.

They believed. You can't believe that salvation comes from the Holy Spirit before they believe.

I really appreciate how you are willing to discuss things in a Christian manner. It's a joy to behold.

justbyfaith · Sep 28, 2020

Hi @Spurgeon's Girl,

It should be clear that in Acts 13:48, the Gentiles who lived in Pisidian Antioch are mentioned as being saved as the result of Paul turning from the Jews towards the Gentiles with the gospel.

However, this does not change the fact that Cornelius and friends were also Gentiles and were among the first of the Gentiles to be saved...and that the transitional period was in fact concerning Cornelius and friends.

As for predestination, I disagree with the hyper-Calvinistic philosophy that we are predestined by God's choice alone.

If that is the case, then God, arbitrarily, chooses people out for hell and they have no say in the matter. Do you see the problem with that? It is a God who is not love; however God is love (1 John 4:8, 1 John 4:16).

But if we are in fact predestinated according to foreknowledge, as the Bible dictates, and even as is mentioned in your blurb, then we are the ones who are responsible as human beings for whether we will be going to heaven or hell.

In the other scenario, God is completely responsible for people going to hell...because if He chooses some for heaven, then the rest go to hell also by God's predetermined choice. And such a concept makes the Lord out to be some sort of cosmic Monster.

Hope this helps...

justbyfaith · Sep 28, 2020

Here is my take on Calvinistic philosophy.

In 1 Corinthians 13:8, love never fails, and in Revelation 19:6, God is Omnipotent.

That would seem to dictate that Irresistible Grace (the "I" in TULIP) is the reality. Let's explore that.

One of two options is available if Irresistible Grace is the reality.

1) Limited Atonement. (the "L" in TULIP).

2) Universalism.

Limited Atonement is not the reality because Jesus died as a ransom for all (1 Timothy 2:6) and for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2).

Universalism is not the reality because there is a very real hell that people go to as a punishment for their sins (Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50, Matthew 25:46).

That means Irresistible Grace is not the reality.

What then of 1 Corinthians 13:8 and Revelation 19:6?

It should be clear that love never fails to give every man a choice as to whether or not he will submit to the Lordship of Jesus Christ; and the fact that God is Omnipotent means that He does not have to tolerate in His kingdom people who have not submitted to His Lordship...who would bring sin and death into His eternal kingdom.

It means that every man makes his own decision as to whether he will spend eternity in heaven or hell...and that if he goes to hell, he will have no one to blame but himself.

justbyfaith · Sep 28, 2020

Spurgeon's Girl said:
I really appreciate how you are willing to discuss things in a Christian manner. It's a joy to behold.

Thank you. I do my best to exemplify the fruit of the Spirit in all of my posts (my mention of the doctrines on hell notwithstanding).

BloodBought 1953 · Sep 28, 2020

justbyfaith said:
So the answer would be that we obey the Lord because He has given us the Holy Ghost rather than Him giving us the Holy Ghost because we obey the Lord.

True .....we do not change and then invite Him in.....we invite Him in and HE does the cleaning....All we can ever do is clean the “ outside” of the Cup , as the Religionists does ( and fool a lot of people into thinking that they are actual Christians ) Only God can clean the “ inside “ of the cup.....

Mungo · Sep 28, 2020

GISMYS_7 said:
OOPS!!! Did God just forget to tell us that we must be baptized in order to be saved????OOPS!!
Romans: Chapter 10 verse 9-10-13
GOD SAYS=
That ""if"" thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in your heart that God hath raised him
from the dead, ""thou shalt be Saved"". For with the heart man
believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession
is made unto Salvation. For whosoever shall call upon the
name of the Lord shall be Saved""...........

No God didn't forget.
Jesus said "He who believes and is baptized will be saved".
Peter said "Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you".
That seems very clear - baptism saves.

GISMYS_7 · Sep 28, 2020

Yes!! Believe and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior THEN obey and be baptized!!
OOPS!!! Did God just forget to tell us that we must be baptized in order to be saved????OOPS!!
Romans: Chapter 10 verse 9-10-13
GOD SAYS=
That ""if"" thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in your heart that God hath raised him
from the dead, ""thou shalt be Saved"". For with the heart man
believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession
is made unto Salvation. For whosoever shall call upon the
name of the Lord shall be Saved""...........

amigo de christo · Sep 28, 2020

Spurgeon's Girl said:
Thank you for the clarification on that. My misunderstanding. Mea Culpa.

I can't agree with you that Baptism saves. This is one of the reasons I reject infant baptism.

Yes , what was it the eunach asked phillip . See here is water , what does HINDER me from being baptized .
And peter said , Ye may if ye BELEIVE on the LORD JESUS with all your heart .
Infants do not make that choice so that baptism can count for nothing .
Only when a person truly comits to Christ does the baptism truly mean something .
Yes indeed . Let all rejoice in the LORD .

amigo de christo · Sep 28, 2020

Blood Bought 1953 said:
True .....we do not change and then invite Him in.....we invite Him in and HE does the cleaning....All we can ever do is clean the “ outside” of the Cup , as the Religionists does ( and fool a lot of people into thinking that they are actual Christians ) Only God can clean the “ inside “ of the cup.....

ONLY GOD can indeed change the inward parts of a man . Its called for ye are saved by Grace through faith in JESUS CHRIST .
Cause it was God himself that even drew us to Christ and the new man with new desires was born .
Whole new life , whole new change , whole new direction . The SPIRIT is the guide , but beware of the flesh .
For deadly evils still remain . OH but let all follow the SPIRIT . For in Christ , HE is able to succor , give aide
to any and all who are tempted . IN HIM we have the power to overcome the evil within our own flesh .
For the blood of Christ cleanses to even the purifying of the conscious .
Let all who name the name of Christ depart from inquity and BB, BB , heed not francis . Remember that well .

Truther · Sep 28, 2020

Spurgeon's Girl said:
I can appreciate that you love the Lord.

But on baptism, I believe you are sincerely wrong.

Here are some issues that were raised by Matt Slick at CARM.

Questions for those who believe baptism is necessary for salvation.
by Matt Slick

Was Abraham still in a state of damnation when he believed God and was declared righteous even though he hadn't been circumcised?

Rom. 4:1-5, "What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? 2For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” 4Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness."

Gal. 3:5-7, "Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. 7Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham."

Note: Those who believe in New Testament times are to believe in the person of Christ, his work on the cross, his resurrection, etc.

Rom. 4:5 says that he who believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness. So do you agree that when a person believes, he is righteous in God's sight?

If not, how do you not contradict what the scripture says?

If yes, then baptism isn't necessary; otherwise, they wouldn't be righteous in Christ's sight.

If a person who believes is not declared righteous, then why isn't he?

If a person who believes is declared righteous, then is he righteous without baptism?

Is a sinner who has prayed and asked the Lord Jesus to forgive him of his sins actually forgiven, or is he still in a state of damnation until he gets baptized?

If a person prays and asks Jesus to forgive him of all of his sins, is he forgiven or not?

Jesus said in John 14:14, "If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it."

If he is not forgiven, then aren't you saying that trust and faith in Christ isn't enough?

A ritual is a set of forms and practices. It is a ceremony. Baptism is a ritual, a ceremony where one person administers baptism to another person. Therefore, if you maintain that baptism is necessary for salvation, are you not saying that salvation is by faith and a ritual?

Can you please tell us if such a man who has believed in Christ and received him, yet dies without being baptized goes to eternal damnation?

If you say no, then baptism is not necessary for salvation.

If you say yes, then he is not declared righteous by faith.

As to Romans 8:30, it's one of my favorite scriptures. It's called the golden chain of redemption for a reason.

Romans 8:28-30English Standard Version (ESV)

28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good,[a] for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Who is the person who is doing the calling?

Baptism for salvation officially began with the N.T. church at Pentecost(Acts 2:38).

Truther · Sep 28, 2020

amigo de christo said:
Every word written is for our good and we ought to just feast on it , embracing it , loving it and growing in the grace
of the wisdom given us in Christ . SING to the KING . When GOD puts HIS LOVE upon our hearts
rest assured it loves every word of TRUTH . Wont skip any part and embraces it all . NOW leap up and let all rejoice in CHRIST .

Well, the drunk on the bar stool needs to hear the 4 gospels then Acts, not 1 Cor 14.

amigo de christo · Sep 28, 2020

Truther said:
Well, the drunk on the bar stool needs to hear the 4 gospels then Acts, not 1 Cor 14.

Well , let the SPIRIT lead and speak the truth of that bible .

Mungo · Sep 28, 2020

GISMYS_7 said:
Yes!! Believe and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior THEN obey and be baptized!!

No, Jesus didn't say get saved and then be baptised. He said "He who believes and is baptized will be saved"
It's faith + baptism = salvation

GISMYS_7 said:

OOPS!!! Did God just forget to tell us that we must be baptized in order to be saved????OOPS!!

Click to expand...

No, God didn't forget
1Pet 3:21 "Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you"

justbyfaith · Sep 28, 2020

Baptism does indeed save; but so does a mere calling on the name of the Lord (Romans 10:13).

Mungo · Sep 28, 2020

justbyfaith said:
Baptism does indeed save; but so does a mere calling on the name of the Lord (Romans 10:13).

You need to take all scripture into account, not just cherry pick.
Jesus said "He who believes and is baptized will be saved"

How to be saved (born again) and join the family of God!

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