My theory about the "Word" in John 1:1

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ChristisGod

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The interpretation of the Thomas incident in John is interesting .. the other two titles you cite are Pseudepigrapha so not much interested.

continue .. what about this passage .. what are the various different intepretations that you now of ?

Seems to me there are versions of this story in other gospels .. non canonical .. which is interesting... other versions of the story.
Clearly not all agree that this constitutes Jesus being called "The Father" .. as Biblical Encyclopedia's will atest.

So tell me about this passage .. and why we should discount all the other scripture contrary to your perspective on this passage.
all the epistles in the NT are spurious ?

where on earth do you get your information from ?

they are no more spurious than the gospels.

And for the 50th time I'm not talking about the Son being the Father, you denied He was God.
 

Heyzeus

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another denial read my previous quote of your #147 proves otherwise.

no comprehende amigo ?

147 doesn't prove anything other than your insistence on denial and avoidance of scripture that shows Jesus is not "The Father".
 

ChristisGod

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It is the spirit of the antichrist that has tricked people into believing "faith alone" dogma - and literalism.
The number one test to distinguish truth for error and the Spirit of God from that of the spirit of antichrist is the confession of our divine Lord Jesus Christ. Every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. There is one thing the spirit of antichrist will deny and that is they will deny the deity of Jesus Christ. They will deny God in human flesh. They will always deny the Incarnation which was permanent. When a person affirms that Jesus Christ is God in flesh that equates to divine truth. Every spirit that confesses meaning to continually confess or agrees with saying the same thing as John declares in his writings is from God. This is the person who is taught by the Spirit of God according to John. The first test that you want to have for any teacher is their Christology, check out what they say about Christ. This becomes a litmus test that is very easy to spot among the false teachers. If you have somebody who denies the deity of Christ you have a clear indication they are of the spirit of antichrist.

If we go back to the beginning of 1 John, we read that which we he beheld, and actually touched concerning the Word of life. That is a term expressing the very deity of Christ. Christ emanates from God as His living Word. He was with the Father in the beginning in 1:2. Jesus was One with the Father sharing the same essence with the Father in heaven with Him before the foundation of the world. John says He was manifested to us. John's language then starts out with the fact that Jesus Christ emanates from God as the very living Word of God. Jesus is the living Word of God,the One John says that was from the beginning that we heard, we saw and we touched. Jesus the Word of life was the eternal One who was with the Father prior to His Incarnation and was then manifested to us in the flesh that we could see and hear and touch according to John. Therefore, we can clearly see Jesus is the very Word of God Incarnate. He is the eternal life who became flesh. The Word who was with God, the Word who was God, was the One who John says was manifested to us. This is how we can tell the spirit of truth from the spirit of antichrist. Can you confess Jesus is God Incarnate?


1 John 4:2
By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;

2 John 1:7
For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.


Erchomenon the present participle in 2 John 7


Alford- the present tense is timeless(pg 274 RNTC on 2 John)

Brooke- the Incarnation is not only an event in history, it is an abiding truth(pg 274 RNTC on 2 John)

Stott- the two natures manhood and Godhood were united already at His birth, never to be divided. In 1 John 4:2 and here in 2 John 7 emphasizes this permanent union of the natures in the One Person ( TNTC pages 209-210) He who denies the Incarnation is not just a deceiver and an antichrist but “the deceiver and the antichrist”. There is in this heresy a double affront: it opposes Christ and deceives men.(stott TNCT page 210)

Marshall- the use of the present and perfect tenses becomes significant if the point is that Jesus Christ had come and still existed “in flesh”. For him(John) it was axiomatic that there had been a true Incarnation, that the word became flesh and remained flesh. It is a point that receives much stress in 1 John 2:18-28;4:1-6;5:5-8. (NICNT pages 70-71)

Smalley- the present tense emphasizes the permanent union of the human and Divine natures in Jesus. Gods self disclosure in Jesus took place at a particular moment in history , but it has continuing effects in the present and into the future(Word Biblical Commentary page 317)

Nicoll- the continuous manifestation of the Incarnate Christ(Expositors Greek Testament Volume 5 page 202)


Akin- Much has been made of the fact that John uses the present tense in this Christological confession. Literally the verse reads, “Jesus Christ coming in flesh.” “Coming” is a present active participle. This stands out in remarkable contrast to the affirmation of 1 John 4:2, where the text states that “Jesus Christ has [emphasis mine] come in the flesh.” There the perfect active participle is used. The key, it seems, is to discover what John is affirming. Here in 2 John the emphasis falls on the abiding reality of the incarnation. First John 4:2 teaches that the Christ, the Father’s Son (v. 3), has come in the flesh. Second John affirms that the wedding of deity and humanity has an abiding reality (cf. 1 Tim 2:5). The ontological and essential nature of the incarnation that would receive eloquent expression one thousand years later in the writing of St. Anselm (1033–1109) in his classic Cur Deus Homo is already present in seed form in the tiny and neglected letter of 2 John.


Lenski- In 1 John 4:2 we have ἐν σαρκὶ ἐληλυθότα, the perfect participle, “as having come in flesh” (incarnate, John 1:14); here we have ἐρχόμενον ἐν σαρκί, “as coming in flesh,” although the participle is present in form it is really timeless.
of Christ as "still being manifested." See the note at 1 John 3:5. In 1 John 4:2 we have the manifestation treated as a past fact by the perfect tense, ‎eleeluthota ‎"has come

Robertson- That Jesus Christ cometh in the flesh Ieesoun ‎‎Christon ‎‎erchomenon ‎‎en ‎‎sarki‎. "Jesus Christ coming in the flesh." Present middle participle of ‎erchomai treating the Incarnation as a continuing fact which the Docetic Gnostics flatly denied. In 1 John 4:2 we have ‎eleeluthota ‎(perfect active participle) in this same construction with ‎homologeoo‎, because there the reference is to the definite historical fact of the Incarnation.

Vincent- Is come erchomenon‎. Wrong. The verb is in the present participle, "coming," which describes the manhood

NT:2064
e)lhluqenai and e&rxesqaie)n sarki/ are used of the form in which Christ as the divine logos appeared among men: 1John 4:2,3 (Rec.);2John 7.of the return of Jesus here after from heaven in majesty:
(fromThayer's Greek Lexicon, PC Study Bible formatted Electronic Database.Copyright © 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

hope this helps !!!
 
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Heyzeus

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all the epistles in the NT are spurious ?

where on earth do you get your information from ?

they are no more spurious than the gospels.

And for the 50th time I'm not talking about the Son being the Father, you denied He was God.

I did not deny that Jesus "was God" .. I have consistently denied that Jesus was "God-The Father" Quote where I denied that Jesus was Divine.

Lacking the ability to back up your claim - you now resort to false accusations .. and then you dwell on those accusations once corrected.
 

ChristisGod

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I did not deny that Jesus "was God" .. I have consistently denied that Jesus was "God-The Father" Quote where I denied that Jesus was Divine.

Lacking the ability to back up your claim - you now resort to false accusations .. and then you dwell on those accusations once corrected.
forgetful eh ?

you said:

Heyzeus said:
Now according to John 1 :) Jesus is "The Logos" according to John - emissary between man and God - Who spoke God's word through the Holy Spirit .. but- who was not himself God.

I rest my case !
 

Heyzeus

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The number one test to distinguish truth for error and the Spirit of God from that of the spirit of antichrist is the confession of our divine Lord Jesus Christ. Every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. There is one thing the spirit of antichrist will deny and that is they will deny the deity of Jesus Christ. They will deny God in human flesh

I have never denied the deity of Christ .. so not sure why you are posting this to me :)

You on the other hand seem to have no problem committing the "unforgivable sin" - putting words in God's mouth.
 

Heyzeus

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forgetful eh ?

you said:

Heyzeus said:
Now according to John 1 :) Jesus is "The Logos" according to John - emissary between man and God - Who spoke God's word through the Holy Spirit .. but- who was not himself God.

I rest my case !

meaning .. not himself "God -The Father" - as stated to you numerous times .. but, the blind refuse to see.
 

ChristisGod

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forgetful eh ?

you said:

Heyzeus said:
Now according to John 1 :) Jesus is "The Logos" according to John - emissary between man and God - Who spoke God's word through the Holy Spirit .. but- who was not himself God.

I rest my case !
you said the above from #147

what tangled webs one weaves when first they set out to ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
 

Heyzeus

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you said the above from #147

what tangled webs one weaves when first they set out to ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Nothing tangled except in the twisted minds of those under the influence. What part of "Jesus is not "God" aka The Father - are you having trouble figuring out :)
 

ChristisGod

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Nothing tangled except in the twisted minds of those under the influence. What part of "Jesus is not "God" aka The Father - are you having trouble figuring out :)
you said this which has nothing to do with the Father and you didn't mention the Father.

"Who spoke God's word through the Holy Spirit .. but- who was not himself God. "


So once again I have proved you wrong as I do with all the scriptures, all 66 books.
 

Heyzeus

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you said this which has nothing to do with the Father and you didn't mention the Father.

"Who spoke God's word through the Holy Spirit .. but- who was not himself God. "


So once again I have proved you wrong as I do with all the scriptures, all 66 books.

You havn't proven anything wrong - except in your own twisted mind :) Jesus was not "God - The Father"

What part of "The God being referred to is "The Father" are you having trouble understanding in your desperate attempt to avoid the Teachings of Jesus in Mark/Matt ?
 

justbyfaith

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You are the deceiver - and have been avoiding "The Truth" like the Plague. Your last ditch effort is to close eyes, ears, and any other orifice that might let the bad news in - and engage in "demonization of the other"
As if, you did not just engage in a demonization of my character.

There is nothing wrong with being obedient to scripture (in this case Romans 16:17).

As for whether I am a deceiver...thank you. Your statement lets me know that I am still walking the straight and narrow after all these years.

Luk 6:22, Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

Luk 6:26, Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.


2Co 6:4, But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
2Co 6:5, In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;
2Co 6:6, By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,
2Co 6:7, By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
2Co 6:8, By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;
2Co 6:9, As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;
2Co 6:10, As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.
 

Heyzeus

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As if, you did not just engage in a demonization of my character.

There is nothing wrong with being obedient to scripture (in this case Romans 16:17).

As for whether I am a deceiver...thank you. Your statement lets me know that I am still walking the straight and narrow after all these years.


So you think I am demonizing you - by calling you out on your demonization of others. There is a twisted thought patter of one who is deceived.
 

Heyzeus

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There is nothing wrong with being obedient to scripture (in this case Romans 16:17).


While on the topic of deception .. but, switching tracks a little - I came across an interesting piece of information the other day that I had not thought about in awhile.

If we look at the Trinity doctrine - "The traditional statement of the doctrine of the Trinity is this: There are three persons within the Godhead; Father, Son and Holy Spirit. These three persons have equal status and are equally divine"

Would you agree ?
 

justbyfaith

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So you think I am demonizing you - by calling you out on your demonization of others. There is a twisted thought patter of one who is deceived.
Saying that someone is deceived is in fact a demonization of that person as a teacher.
 

justbyfaith

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While on the topic of deception .. but, switching tracks a little - I came across an interesting piece of information the other day that I had not thought about in awhile.

If we look at the Trinity doctrine - "The traditional statement of the doctrine of the Trinity is this: There are three persons within the Godhead; Father, Son and Holy Spirit. These three persons have equal status and are equally divine"

Would you agree ?
My take on this will be found in posts #1-#6 oi the following thread:

True Trinity.
 

Heyzeus

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My take on this will be found in posts #1-#6 oi the following thread:

True Trinity.

So you agree with the standard Trinity Doctrine " There are three persons within the Godhead; Father, Son and Holy Spirit. These three persons have equal status and are equally divine"

Yes/No/Other
 

Ronald Nolette

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Ummm .. everything I have said is from the Bible ... "El" was the God of Abraham -or some variation of the supreme God of the Divine Pantheon .. El Shaddai - God of the Mountain .. the Most High .. "The Father" The Creator .. are all atributes later ascribed to YHWH.

Call the new one "El YHWH" if you like - it matters not - same God. What matters to this conversation (aside from Modern Bible Scholarship ascribing the Identity of the God of Abraham to El - google "Abraham" and Encyclopedia Brittanica for more info) is that regardless of the name of this God ... the Israelite's believed there were many other Gods.

This does not make them Polytheists .. as they were not to worship these other Gods referred to numerous times in the Bible as "sons of Gods".

So this is not about what I believe .. but what the Bible - archaeology - history - and Biblical Scholarship says.

Well then you must be readiong a bible different than mine! god absolutely declared Jesus is the only befgotten.

God did not birth other gods.
 

Heyzeus

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Well then you must be readiong a bible different than mine! god absolutely declared Jesus is the only befgotten.

God did not birth other gods.

Just because Jesus was the only "Son of God" - Begotten = Born of a Human .. does not mean there are not other Gods. Your are committing logical fallacy "non sequitur" - "it does not follow".

The Bible clearly States that there were other "Son's of God" and in numerous places .. it does not tell us how these other "Sons of God" came to be.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Just because Jesus was the only "Son of God" - Begotten = Born of a Human .. does not mean there are not other Gods. Your are committing logical fallacy "non sequitur" - "it does not follow".

The Bible clearly States that there were other "Son's of God" and in numerous places .. it does not tell us how these other "Sons of God" came to be.

So because you do not accept scholars understanding and accept the fact that the term angel was not known by Job (BTW sons of God in the OT occurs only 3X), you have decided to create an entire scenario based on unknowns , assumptions and guesses about what you sdon't know? do you really think that is authoritative????