Alive Unto God

marks · Sep 24, 2020

Romans 6
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. (Lit. the one that has died has been justified away from sin)
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Christ is dead to sin, having died to sin one time only, and now lives unto God. It's an interesting question what this means, that Christ is dead to sin.

The best answer I think I've heard, considering He never did sin, is that the door to sin is now forever closed to Him. That when He was in the days of His flesh, if there was to be sin found in Him, that is when it would have been.

And now having died and risen again from among the dead, there is no more opportunity that He might or could sin.

(this is not a thread discussing the impecability of Christ)

Regardless of whether Jesus could have sinned or not, now that Jesus has died and risen, He is dead to sin, and alive unto God. Whatever relationship Jesus had with sin and temptation - I know He did not sin - that is over, and now His life is exclusively toward God.

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

Likewise . . . in just the same way, count yourself dead to sin, and alive to God in Jesus Christ our Lord.

In the same way as Jesus. What does that mean towards how we see ourselves, and our relationship with God?

Much love!

CharismaticLady · Sep 28, 2020

marks said:
Christ is dead to sin, having died to sin one time only, and now lives unto God. It's an interesting question what this means, that Christ is dead to sin.

Hey, marks, can you tell me what verse you are quoting. I want to look at it in different versions of the New Testament. Thanks.

marks · Sep 29, 2020

CharismaticLady said:
Hey, marks, can you tell me what verse you are quoting. I want to look at it in different versions of the New Testament. Thanks.

Romans 6 . . . I recommend everyone read and study this chapter to the point of knowing everything it says, and meditate on these things.

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed (lit. justified away) from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Much love!

CharismaticLady · Sep 29, 2020

marks said:
Romans 6 . . . I recommend everyone read and study this chapter to the point of knowing everything it says, and meditate on these things.

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed (lit. justified away) from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Much love!

Okay, verse 10. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

So what do you believe this means in Christ's relationship to sin?

Brakelite · Sep 29, 2020

From "Waggoner on Romans"

How have we learned that we are to regard ourselves? “Reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
If dead to sin but alive unto God, how are we to stand related to sin? “Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body.”
If sin reign in our body, what do we do? “Obey it in the lusts thereof.”
What further exhortation is given? “Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin.”
To what are we to yield ourselves? “Yield yourselves unto God.”
In what way? “As those that are alive from the dead.”
And what are our members to be? “Instruments of righteousness unto God.”
If we thus yield ourselves as instruments of righteousness unto God, what will be the result? “Sin shall not have dominion over you.”
Why will sin not have dominion over us? “For ye are not under the law, but under grace.” “What then? shall we sin because we are not under the law, but under grace?” “God forbid.” Not by any means,-far from it. Whose servants are we? “To whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are.”
What were we formerly, when not under grace? “The servants of sin.”
But what has now been done for us? “Made free from sin.”
How was it that we were made free from sin? “Ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.”
Being made free from sin, what have we become? “The servants of righteousness.” How are we now to yield our members servants to righteousness? “As ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity.”
When we were the servants of sin, from what were we free? “When ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.”
What is the fruit of those things of which we are or should be ashamed? “The end of those things is death.”
But what now that we are made free from sin, and are the servants of God? “Ye have your fruit unto holiness.”
And what is the end? “The end everlasting life.”
What is the wages of sin? “The wages of sin is death.”
And what the gift of God? “The gift of God is eternal life.” Through whom? “Through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

marks · Sep 29, 2020

CharismaticLady said:
Okay, verse 10. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

So what do you believe this means in Christ's relationship to sin?

That's in the OP . . .

Brakelite · Sep 29, 2020

CharismaticLady said:
Okay, verse 10. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

So what do you believe this means in Christ's relationship to sin?

Christ didn't sin, so He didn't die to His sin, but ours. Upon Him was laid the iniquity of us all.

Brakelite · Sep 29, 2020

Also from "Waggoner on Romans".

Baptized into His Death.-“So many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death.” And what is it to be baptized into his death? Verse 10 tells us: “For in that he died, he died unto sin once.” He died unto sin, not his own, because he had none; but he “bare our sins in his own body on the tree.” 1 Peter 2:24. “He was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities.” Isaiah 53:5. Since in that he died, he died unto sin, it follows that if we are baptized into his death, we also die to sin.
A New Life.-“Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more.” “If we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him.” It was impossible for the grave to hold Christ. Acts 2:24. Therefore, just as surely as we are baptized into the death of Christ, so surely shall we be raised from a life of sin to a life of righteousness in him. “For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.” Crucifixion with Him.-As Christ was crucified, therefore, being baptized into his death means that we are crucified with him. So we read, “I am crucified with Christ; nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me.” Galatians 2:20. Crucified, yet living, because crucified with Christ, and yet he lives. Christ said, “Because I live, ye shall live also.” John 14:19. How can we live a new life? We have no power at all of ourselves; but Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father; and in his prayer to the Father he said, “The glory which thou gavest me I have given them.” John 17:22. Therefore, the power that raised Jesus from the dead is exercised to raise us from the death of sin. If we are willing to allow the old life to be crucified, we may be sure of the new. “Our Old Man” Crucified.-We shall be in the likeness of his resurrection. If we are crucified with Christ, our sins must also be crucified with Christ, for they are a part of us. Our sins were on him as he was crucified, so of course our sins are crucified if we are crucified with him. But here is a difference between us and our sins when crucified. We are crucified in order that we may live again; our sins are crucified in order that they may be destroyed. Christ is not “the minister of sin” (Galatians 2:17). It was the life of God that raised him from the dead, and in that life there is no sin.

CharismaticLady · Sep 29, 2020

marks said:
Christ is dead to sin, having died to sin one time only, and now lives unto God. It's an interesting question what this means, that Christ is dead to sin.

The best answer I think I've heard, considering He never did sin, is that the door to sin is now forever closed to Him. That when He was in the days of His flesh, if there was to be sin found in Him, that is when it would have been.

And now having died and risen again from among the dead, there is no more opportunity that He might or could sin.

marks said:
Likewise . . . in just the same way, count yourself dead to sin, and alive to God in Jesus Christ our Lord.

In the same way as Jesus. What does that mean towards how we see ourselves, and our relationship with God?

The fact of our relationship to sin is in Romans 6:2. We are dead to sin (just as Christ cannot sin, neither can we when we walk in the Spirit.) But we have to also recognize that fact and not be convinced by false doctrine that we will always sin and quench the Spirit due to unbelief in the power of God.

CharismaticLady · Sep 29, 2020

Backlit said:
Christ didn't sin, so He didn't die to His sin, but ours. Upon Him was laid the iniquity of us all.

Yes, that is what I believe. I'm asking him what he believes.

marks · Sep 29, 2020

Backlit said:
To what are we to yield ourselves? “Yield yourselves unto God.”
In what way? “As those that are alive from the dead.”

Hi Backlit,

I like this commentary!

On this part . . .

As those that are alive from among the dead ones, is a literal translation.

We are alive from among the dead. We have been raised to life in Christ out of a dead humanity. By our death and resurrection in Christ we are separated from the children of Adam, and put into a new line of humanity, sharing in Christ's Sonship.

A new humanity, separated by death from sin and corruption, alive in Christ, and as alive unto God as Jesus is.

Much love!

marks · Sep 29, 2020

CharismaticLady said:
Okay, verse 10. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

So what do you believe this means in Christ's relationship to sin?

What I'm wanting to focus on here is not our relationship to sin, rather, our relationship with God.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

We need to get this staight so we can be in the "therefore" of vs. 12.

Having died in Christ, we are dead, we are buried, we are risen again, not as Adam's children, but now God's children. And now we are alive unto God. Regardless of what our state of maturity is.

Much love!

marks · Sep 29, 2020

Backlit said:
Our sins were on him as he was crucified, so of course our sins are crucified if we are crucified with him. But here is a difference between us and our sins when crucified. We are crucified in order that we may live again; our sins are crucified in order that they may be destroyed. Christ is not “the minister of sin” (Galatians 2:17). It was the life of God that raised him from the dead, and in that life there is no sin.

Exactly!

Nothing of the old man came out of the grave with us! Only new life in Christ. Only a life that is lived unto God.

But the mind needs to be renewed to accept the truth of the new creation.

This does not change that we are now alive unto God, the same as Jesus is.

What it does is bring God closer into our lives in our sanctification.

Even that which comes from the flesh whether seemingly serious or slight - all sin is serious - does not change this truth, we are alive unto God, by virtue of a new creation.

Much love!

Waiting on him · Sep 29, 2020

Most believe they are spilled from the womb receiving the breath of life, Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life.
And He breathed on them.

marks · Sep 29, 2020

Backlit said:
Christ didn't sin, so He didn't die to His sin, but ours. Upon Him was laid the iniquity of us all.

It doesn't really say that Jesus died to His sin, or our sin, rather, that He died to sin itself. Death makes separation. He died to sin once. Death makes a permanent separation.

We've died to sin, and now are alive unto God. Just like Jesus.

But we have to reckon it so, because the natural tendency of the mind is to not accept it as fact.

Much love!

CharismaticLady · Sep 29, 2020

marks said:
What I'm wanting to focus on here is not our relationship to sin, rather, our relationship with God.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

We need to get this staight so we can be in the "therefore" of vs. 12.

Having died in Christ, we are dead, we are buried, we are risen again, not as Adam's children, but now God's children. And now we are alive unto God. Regardless of what our state of maturity is.

Much love!

Yes, and in order to be God's children we have to have received power from Jesus to not sin.

Nancy · Sep 29, 2020

CharismaticLady said:
The fact of our relationship to sin is in Romans 6:2. We are dead to sin (just as Christ cannot sin, neither can we when we walk in the Spirit.) But we have to also recognize that fact and not be convinced by false doctrine that we will always sin and quench the Spirit due to unbelief in the power of God.

Amen, His Spirit causes us to not even want to sin. I sure don't ever "want" to sin. Cannot say that I NEVER do though.
There are times I 'should' do something but don't so, sins of omission would be my struggle. Such as, being less than faithful in study. Prayer is every day all day but, many times the mind wanders during them and I HATE that! So, cannot say that I am totally sinless. There are still a few people I struggle to forgive even though I say to God that I forgive them...don't always "feel" it in my heart

When people are mean and nasty, without love, my first reaction was always to give it right back, and harder...now, although it can hurt, I will walk away and pray as best I can for the person, or persons, and avoid them like the plague!
Another example, getting so very frustrated that I throw things (break my own stuff!!) NOT around others but, when by myself...that is lashing out in anger as the frustration of not being able to do like a good 90% of the things I always was able to do on my own. It is getting less and less yet...it is a struggle at times.

marks · Sep 29, 2020

Romans 6

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Because you are dead to sin . . . Because you are alive unto God . . . Therefore, let not sin reign in your mortal body.

God's admonition not let sin rule in our mortal bodies, to not obey it's lusts, this is predicated on the fact that we are dead to sin and alive to God.

We have no choice but to let sin reign before we are born again. But now, having died in Him, having been raised, now we can stop sin. Now we have that power. And so now, do not let sin rule in your body. Because you are now alive unto God, in Jesus Christ our Lord.

Much love!

marks · Sep 29, 2020

Nancy said:
Amen, His Spirit causes us to not even want to sin. I sure don't ever "want" to sin. Cannot say that I NEVER do though.
There are times I 'should' do something but don't so, sins of omission would be my struggle. Such as, being less than faithful in study. Prayer is every day all day but, many times the mind wanders during them and I HATE that! So, cannot say that I am totally sinless. There are still a few people I struggle to forgive even though I say to God that I forgive them...don't always "feel" it in my heart When people are mean and nasty, without love, my first reaction was always to give it right back, and harder...now, although it can hurt, I will walk away and pray as best I can for the person, or persons, and avoid them like the plague!
Another example, getting so very frustrated that I throw things (break my own stuff!!) NOT around others but, when by myself...that is lashing out in anger as the frustration of not being able to do like a good 90% of the things I always was able to do on my own. It is getting less and less yet...it is a struggle at times.

Hi Nancy,

The one thing I'd like most to express in this thread is that in all of those times, we are NEVER separated from God. He is always with us, our lives are always now "alive unto God", that is, everything I do is right in front of Him, nothing is hid, nothing overlooked, and He loves us!

We never ever need be afraid of Him, because we are unhappy with ourselves. He receives us in Christ, and He understands EVERYTHING about us. And still loves us!

Much love!

CharismaticLady · Sep 29, 2020

marks said:
What I'm wanting to focus on here is not our relationship to sin, rather, our relationship with God.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

We need to get this staight so we can be in the "therefore" of vs. 12.

Having died in Christ, we are dead, we are buried, we are risen again, not as Adam's children, but now God's children. And now we are alive unto God. Regardless of what our state of maturity is.

Much love!

What relationship to God if you continue to have no power over sin? If you want a true relationship with God we must be born again with a new nature that partakes of the divine nature of God.

Alive Unto God

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