Anyone going to watch the Presidential debates?

JohnDB said:

That story was practically written before the debate happened...
I predicted that the MSM would declare Joe won no matter what happened.

But in reality when the moderator comes in second place and Joe came in third....come on!

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You don't think they even bothered to poll anyone? I watched it and didn't have the same reaction you did. I found it embarrassing more than anything else. Allegedly we are supposed to have the world's greatest democracy, and this is how we are supposed to learn about the candidates?

lforrest said:

I watched them. Something stood out to me, Biden's plan to stop so called "systemic injustice." Sounds like he wants a secret police to me.

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Huh? He said he wanted to get people together to work things out.

Presidential debate: Biden says police not happy about Breonna Taylor


I'd say Trump sounded as if he wanted the Proud Boys to act like the police. . . his own unofficial police force. I couldn't believe my ears. Would he condemn the Proud Boys? He did not.

Trump deflects debate question about whether he condemns white supremacists


Does that mean Trump would also want the Proud Boys to take up arms when he loses the election and says the Democrats stole the election?

What does he mean by saying "somebody" has to do something about Antifa? We have local, state and federal police forces. Why does Trump want the Proud Boys to "do something" about Antifa? He sounds as if he's in favor of armed thugs taking the law into their own hands. It doesn't sound like "law and order" to me.

Giuliano said:

Huh? He said he wanted to get people together to work things out.

Presidential debate: Biden says police not happy about Breonna Taylor

Biden replied that there is systemic injustice in America, including in law enforcement and the way in which it's carried out. . . .

As president, Biden said he'd call together people at the White House, including civil rights groups and police officers, "and we're going to work this out."​

I'd say Trump sounded as if he wanted the Proud Boys to act like the police. . . his own unofficial police force. I couldn't believe my ears. Would he condemn the Proud Boys? He did not.

Trump deflects debate question about whether he condemns white supremacists

“What do you want to call them? Give me a name,” Trump said, prompting Biden to mention the Proud Boys, an organization that describes itself as a club of “Western chauvinists” but has been categorized as a hate group by the nonprofit Southern Poverty Law Center.

“Proud Boys, stand back and stand by,” Trump said, before immediately pivoting. “But I’ll tell you what, somebody’s got to do something about antifa.”

Antifa, which stands for anti-fascist, is a largely unstructured, far-left movement whose followers broadly aim to confront those they view as authoritarian or racist.

At least one Proud Boy organizer, Joe Biggs, celebrated the group’s mention on the social media platform Parler, saying: “President Trump told the proud boys to stand by because someone needs to deal with ANTIFA...well sir! we’re ready!!” according to screenshots posted by a New York Times reporter on Twitter.​

Does that mean Trump would also want the Proud Boys to take up arms when he loses the election and says the Democrats stole the election?

What does he mean by saying "somebody" has to do something about Antifa? We have local, state and federal police forces. Why does Trump want the Proud Boys to "do something" about Antifa? He sounds as if he's in favor of armed thugs taking the law into their own hands. It doesn't sound like "law and order" to me.

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Trump's lack of preparation for the debate really showed up on his answer...

He was overthinking his answer on that one and came off poorly.

Biden didn't do any better.
At one point he claimed that he was the Democratic party but can't call a Democrat mayor about shutting down riots?

And we really haven't seen anywhere near the same violence from right wing groups as we have BLM and Antifa.

JohnDB said:

Trump's lack of preparation for the debate really showed up on his answer...

He was overthinking his answer on that one and came off poorly.

Biden didn't do any better.
At one point he claimed that he was the Democratic party but can't call a Democrat mayor about shutting down riots?

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Joe Biden is not in a position to be ordering mayors around.

And we really haven't seen anywhere near the same violence from right wing groups as we have BLM and Antifa.

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You just told me something about where you get your news. Do you know what anarchy is? Most Antifa people are anarchists. They don't have leaders the way most "groups" have leaders.

FBI director says antifa is an ideology, not an organization

Homeland Security does not agree with you.

DHS draft document: White supremacists are greatest terror threat

The Proud Boys isn't a white supremacist group. It's something else; and the FBI designated it as an "extremist group" back in 2018.

FBI now classifies far-right Proud Boys as 'extremist group', documents say

I find what Trump said about them beyond strange. It's as if he doesn't believe his own FBI and Homeland Security.

lforrest said:

It isn't like we have a vacuum of law enforcement, what is happening in cities is selective enforcement as directed by liberal administrations. So you can be sure, and it has happened already, that when proud boys march the police are all over them.

Biden's comments, though vague, point to something like the Gestapo. A police force working for the extreme left. They would need sweeping authority to oversee local law enforcement, the courts, and all other government agencies. Their goal would be stamping out all opposition to the party, whos proported goal is social equality.

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I see nothing in Biden's comments remotely suggesting a police force resembling the Gestapo.
I think you're letting your imagination carry you away. I would say Biden is opposed to having the police shoot people the way they did Breonna Taylor, on a no-knock warrant. The man they said they were looking for had already been arrested. Taylor's boyfriend was armed, yes, and he still called the police thinking criminals were breaking into the house. Breonna wasn't armed, but somehow she wound up dead, shot to death. Now that sounds like the Gestapo to me. We're still waiting to find out why a naked, mentally ill died in police custody in Rochester, NY, after his family called the police saying he needed help. They put a hood over his head to prevent him from spitting on them. The coroner said he died of suffocation -- but that couldn't be from that bag.
Story here: Black man died after being restrained by Rochester police

The FBI designated the Proud Boys a dangerous organization back in 2018. And you think they're a force for good? I say people who want to take justice into their own hands are not good citizens. Do we really want a race war on our hands? Should black people go out and buy guns to protect themselves from the white supremacist groups? Is that what we want? Or do we want our police forces to do their jobs?

Story here: FBI now classifies far-right Proud Boys as 'extremist group', documents say

Giuliano said:

The FBI designated the Proud Boys a dangerous organization back in 2018. And you think they're a force for good? I say people who want to take justice into their own hands are not good citizens. Do we really want a race war on our hands? Should black people go out and buy guns to protect themselves from the white supremacist groups? Is that what we want? Or do we want our police forces to do their jobs?

Story here: FBI now classifies far-right Proud Boys as 'extremist group', documents say

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What do you think of Trump's peculiar statement to the Proud Boys? Personally, I think his statement is an obvious threat and a direct order to these white supremacists to rise up and take up arms in an effort to defend him and possibly even try to prevent him from being removed.

“Proud Boys, stand back and standby,” he said, apparently addressing the far-right group.

Giuliano said:

Joe Biden is not in a position to be ordering mayors around.

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Joe Biden quotes:
"I am the Democratic Party"
"I am a private citizen, I can't call them and tell these Democrat mayors to do anything about the riots"

Josho said:

So how did it go, who won the debate?

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Trump, but not by much. He might be smarter than Biden, but even if he had good intentions I wasn't all that pleased with his attitude,.. and to be perfectly honest with you I never actually saw him wear a mask. He called Biden out on a lot of things though.

JohnDB said:

Joe Biden quotes:
"I am the Democratic Party"
"I am a private citizen, I can't call them and tell these Democrat mayors to do anything about the riots"

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So he's basically admitting that he can't get anything done?

lforrest said:

Biden didn't even try. Just proves he is a puppet.

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And was that ever in question?

Josho said:

Sounds similar to last US federal election debate, politics certainly can be a dirty game.

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... and so too Christianity.

Usually there's TRUTH, and there's DOGMA. TRUTH can't back down, but DOGMA refuses to yield.

Bobby Jo

FollowHim said:

I was shocked by the lack of strategy to stop Trump from disruption strategies.
It was down to the producers who wanted to create conflict and drama.

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SURPRISE!

Trump can be defeated by sound bites, well thought through points which are encapsulated in small sentences.
-- ANYONE can be defeated by distortions and misrepresentations

Reporting taxes, historical figures that will not change, just publish them.
-- Is wealth a criteria?

Building the wall paid for by the Mexicans, not delivered or deliverable.
-- They're paying with the MCUSA, and possibly other means.

Medicare repealed, not achieved.
-- Obama Care? Effectively DEAD!

North Korea, nice photo shop opportunity, nothing more.
-- Gained prisoners (one already DEAD); and no more Bluff and Bluster

Economy no better than under Obama.
-- ON MARS!

Polarised politics, splitting society and demonising the opponents.
-- Lies versus truth often has that result.

Supporting conspiracy stories, wild statements not worthy of any elected official, bleach, chloroquine.
-- Obama WILL end up bankrupt (lawyer fees) over his SPYING; and I suspect you're not a medical doctor?

Disaster withdrawal from Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria.
-- Soldiers and families reunited.

Disaster climate change engagement, world leadership, making friends with ones allies
-- THE SKY IS FALLING.

The official revolving door of employees, lasting months at most at the highest posts
-- If you can't do the job, YOU'RE FIRED.

Picking fights with government officials who are paid to be objective
-- DEEP STATE anyone?

Encouraging supporters not to take Covid-19 precautions seriously, threatening lives of 1000's
-- Both me and wife are (higher risk category) doing FINE. No worse than flu 4-5 years ago, except instead of entire body, just the lungs.

... even a nut job cannot do too much harm ...[/QUOTE]
-- So you're applying?


Bobby Jo

lforrest said:

In the Breonna Taylor case they had no knock warrant and the police announced themselves. Then one of the officers was shot. Of course they fired back, and Breonna Taylor was in the line of fire and an accomplice to the assault. If your partner is shot that means shoot back.

The issue here is with un-uniformed officers executing a no-knock warrant. There is no way to know they are cops. Anyone could announce themselves as police, and they may not have heard.

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There remain serious questions that I'd like answers for. The police say they announced themselves; the boyfriend said he didn't hear that. He fired one warning shot and obviously aimed low since it struck an officer in the leg. The police responded with 32 shots. Six from the officer inside the apartment. A second officer fired 16 times from the doorway, and a third officer was firing through a sliding glass door and windows, both covered by curtains. Taylor was shot six times. Walker who had fired once was not hit by any of the 32 shots.

Let's suppose he had been the man they were looking for. Suppose he was guilty of selling drugs and had fired at the police. The story gets even more incredible. Three cops could fire that many shots without one even hitting him? This does not inspire confidence in me in the competence of that police force. Were they firing at random? It seems like it. Was the room dark? I don't know. It was shortly after midnight. Why do this at night?

Why didn't they have officers wait for their suspect to come out of the house, pick him up and then search the house? What would you think if you heard loud knocking on your door and then people were busting it down? If you had a gun, would you use it? Why, if the police had announced themselves, would Walker have called 911 and tell them someone had busted in and shot his girlfriend?

Lastly, the whole department needs to be held accountable for the mess-up since the man they were looking for had already been arrested. I've never heard of such incompetence in a police force.

Racist BLM and Antifa need to be opposed, and if the government will not do it we need militias like the Proud boys.

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Your idea sounds dangerously radical to me. Our Constitution does not condone self-appointed militias any more than it condones lynchings. Where is your evidence that BLM and Antifa are "racist" and so dangerous that we need unauthorized armed gangs roaming about saying they're going to take care of them? You sound as if you're in favor of gang warfare. The FBI says the Proud Boys are dangerous, but you say you like them. What's wrong with this picture? You don't trust the FBI to tell the truth? I do. Is your fear of government that great that you can't trust what the FBI says?

If a local or state government doesn't enforce the laws, we have the option to vote them out of office. I would be voting against some of the Democratic mayors and governors -- you can be sure of that -- but I cannot condone people forming gangs to enforce their own ideas about law and order. That is not the rule of law -- it is not law and order -- it is vigilantism and gang warfare.

You may not have heard about it; but some black people are getting tired of the far-right groups. Some are arming themselves. That's surprising to me since guns are seen in most black neighbors unfavorably -- associated with criminals and the police. Most black people didn't want to own guns. Now more are thinking they may need guns. Maybe they do. I hope more blacks don't turn to guns, thinking they need them to protect them from white supremacists; but you can push people only so far.

Trump does not know how to calm the nation down. When he talks, he often makes things worse. He has some people terrified, so terrified that they're even in favor of vigilante justice. I don't buy it when some politician tries to scare me -- and especially when the FBI and Homeland Security say otherwise. Now he's trying to scare people about voter fraud. The man peddles fear -- but then said, to explain his downplaying the coronavirus threat, that he didn't want to cause a panic. You gotta be kiddin'. He tries to panic people a lot.

Obama Care is named wrong. It should have been named "Obama Doesn't Care."

Surprise, surprise, surprise. I sure thought he was reading something last night but this still doesn't shock me a bit.