The Eternal Security Heresy: A Comprehensive Refutation of OSAS

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justbyfaith

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Of course...works do shew forth that faith is genuine...and it is only a genuine faith that will save a man.

What if God has not preordained that a certain man, though saved, will walk in any works (such as with the thief on the Cross)?

Does that man go to hell? Was Jesus lying when He said to the man who had no works to show for his faith, Today you will be with me in Paradise...?
 

Taken

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I don't judge them by their works. John does.

1 John 3:7
The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.

1 John 3:10
Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

Now explain your criticism in light of what John himself says.

No explanation required.
The author of 1 John is teaching the Word of God.
The author in 1 John identifies himself as one who heard first-hand from Jesus Himself.

1 John 1:
[1] That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
[2] (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us...
[3] That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
[4] And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
[5] This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

The author himself Identifies WHO he is writing to.

1 John 2:
[1] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1 John 2:
[12] I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
[13] I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
[14] I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

John is Writing to Jews.
Jews who Already were KNOWN to believe IN God.
Jews (fathers), who SAW and Heard Jesus first hand.
(Little children/Jews), WHOM some have Heard From (their father Jews) OF Jesus and Believed and OVERCOME)
(Little children/Jews), WHO are being Enlightened...to Knowledge...of WHAT is their GAIN FOR Belief; and WHAT is their LOSS For Disbelief.

The Point hinges on Background Knowledge.
Jews were ALREADY faithful TO God.
Gentile's WERE NOT.
Jews were being introduced TO Jesus.
Gentiles Were being introduced TO Jesus First, THEN God.

The POINT proceeds Forward-->TO Individual's.

Individuals---> Jew OR Gentile Hear and Decide and Choose What to Believe IN.
God only...Jesus only...God and Jesus.

And if you have not noticed; even TO this day...Broadly;
JEWS teach Jews & GENTILES teach Gentile's.

The Big Picture IS..STANDING on Belief in Both.

• Your focus is on Works. That you can KNOW a person's STANDING "by his WORKS".

• If that ^ be your point, I disagree.

• A man's STANDING, is on what he Believes.

• If you judge a man only on his Works, (and KNOW not his STANDING /Believer or Not)...and you Judge his Works as "good"...
Do you NOT already KNOW, an unbelievers WORKS are burned?

• it is KNOWING a persons STANDING (believer or not) and knowing the Word of God, that gives you the Background Knowledge to rightfully Judge another.

• It is Scripture that Teaches, "Declare your OWN STANDING"...and DO your OWN "WORKS"...that others SEEING "Your Works" are Glorifying to "your God, that you Stand with".

^ That is my point.

Works Glorifying TO GOD, ARE ONLY works accomplished BY an individual IN STANDING WITH God, THAT ARE Good works, according to Gods Principles.

It is the STANDING "IN and WITH God" that IS the Primary Factor...(of an individual), BEFORE "Works" (of the individual) IS Considered.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Taken

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What does this have to do with Jesus' teaching that only people who do his will and have works to show for their faith will be saved when he returns? Are you able to explain how Jesus' teachings are not a works gospel?

Jesus' teaching that only people who do his will will be saved when he returns?

Please quote this Scripture.

Jesus' teaching that only people who
have works to show for their faith will be saved when he returns?

Please quote this Scripture.

Thanks,
Taken
 

Taken

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Of course...works do shew forth that faith is genuine...and it is only a genuine faith that will save a man.

What if God has not preordained that a certain man, though saved, will walk in any works (such as with the thief on the Cross)?

Does that man go to hell? Was Jesus lying when He said to the man who had no works to show for his faith, Today you will be with me in Paradise...?

No, Jesus did not lie.
• Belief and Confession of Belief, IS The Requirement FOR Salvation.
• A man's Confession IS Verified BY God Himself, WHO Knows...IF the Confession is A TRUE heartfelt Confession, or NOT.

The man hanging NEXT TO Jesus:
Call on the Lord Jesus.
That, ^ identified the man, Confessing Belief.
That mans Heart was INSTANTLY searched, and Found in True Belief, and WAS INSTANTLY notified, he would BE WITH Jesus IN Paradise, Because of his Belief and Confession.

That is The Exact Same Protocal that Applies to Every man.

Luke 23:
[42] And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

The man Acknowledged his Belief, Jesus is Lord, Jesus IS King of His Kingdom.

Jesus Acknowledged the man's Belief was Heartfully True....and That that man WAS Saved.

Luke 23:
[43] And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day [/B] shalt thou be with me in paradise.[/B]

That was a conversation between One man and Jesus. (The man said to Jesus...Jesus said to the man.)

ThereAFTER...What "WORKS" did the man "DO", to Glorify God?

NONE!

This teaches...
"Salvation is Gift Given FOR Confession of Belief.

Scripture Verifies Salvation is a Gift Given FOR Confessing Heartful Belief.

Rom 10:
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.[/B]

Men Confess Belief "UNTO" Salvation.
• Which the Confession comes First from the man.
• which means "unto"...that the man IS confessing Belief...in hopes Salvation Will be Gifted "UNTO" the man.
• Which means....the One With the Gift "TO Give"... FIRST "searches the man's Heart" to SEE if the man's Confession, BE A TRUE Heartful Confession....or Not.

Jer 17:
[10] I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways...[/B]

For the man's Confession of Belief in his Heart...the man Was Gifted With Salvation.

The Lord God Separately from Salvation. Additionally, Searches a man's "DOINGS".

Jer 17:
[10] I the LORD search the heart... even to give every man according to the fruit of his doings.

Doings ARE Works.
Works Expressly doings that Glorify God, "ARE Rewarded."
Works that "DO NOT Glorify God" (regardless if Saved or Not) are EVENLY Judged And "ARE BURNED".

A man WHO IS Saved, IS Saved, regardless of Works.

A man WHO IS Saved and DOES Works that Glorify God, IS Rewarded.

A man WHO IS Saved and DOES NO Works to Glorify God...
Is a Saved man, Who will receive "NO rewards for Works".

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Ferris Bueller

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What does this have to do with Jesus' teaching that only people who do his will and have works to show for their faith will be saved when he returns? Are you able to explain how Jesus' teachings are not a works gospel?
I need to know which teaching of Jesus you are referring to in order to be able to better answer your question.
Matthew 7:21
21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

This is true, yet Jesus is not teaching a works gospel. So explain how this is true without it being a works gospel.
 

Ferris Bueller

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• Belief and Confession of Belief, IS The Requirement FOR Salvation.
• A man's Confession IS Verified BY God Himself, WHO Knows...IF the Confession is A TRUE heartfelt Confession, or NOT.
We know their confession is true and heartfelt by their works.

Luke 19:8-9
8But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”

9Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham.


Luke 7:47-50
...her many sins have been forgiven—as her great love has shown. But whoever has been forgiven little loves little.”

48Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”

49The other guests began to say among themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?”

50Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”
 

justbyfaith

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Matthew 7:21
21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

This is true, yet Jesus is not teaching a works gospel. So explain how this is true without it being a works gospel.

If anyone is saved by grace through faith (and that not of themselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast), he is transformed, regenerated, and renewed on the inside; and is from henceforth inclined towards doing the will of the Father, in the way of works.

It can also be said that it is the will of the Father that a man be saved, very simply...

"And whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).

In being saved, we become a new creature in Christ; the old has gone; behold, all things have become new (2 Corinthians 5:17 (kjv))!

We become inclined towards dong good works.

It is not the doing of the good works that saves us but it is faith in Jesus...which produces the inclination to do good works....which is a major aspect of the salvation that is given.

If someone does not do the will of the Father, it is a sign to man that they do not have a genuine faith in the Lord Jesus...

But if a man calls on the name of the Lord and then one minute later passes on into the next life...his last breath on earth is his first breath in heaven (Romans 10:13)...regardless of the fact that he had no opportunity whatsoever to do any good works and therefore was devoid of works.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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If someone does not do the will of the Father, it is a sign to man that they do not have a genuine faith in the Lord Jesus...
Then why don't we tell them that instead of telling them their works don't matter because salvation is not by works? Their lives show they aren't even saved in the first place for the once saved always saved debate to even matter, lol! That's why I say you're telling them the wrong message. The Bible doesn't tell us not to be concerned about our lives because salvation is not by works. It tells us to live a life that makes us ready to meet Christ when he comes back. But we don't tell people that. Instead we tell people the exact opposite that their behavior doesn't matter. You people keep hammering a doctrine that doesn't even matter. What matters is that we have a life of faith, prepared to meet Jesus when he comes back. Why don't you start telling people that? Are you afraid that is somehow a works gospel? If it is then Jesus taught a works gospel.
 

Taken

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We know their confession is true and heartfelt by their works.

Luke 19:8-9
8But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”

9Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham.


Luke 7:47-50
...her many sins have been forgiven—as her great love has shown. But whoever has been forgiven little loves little.”

48Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”

49The other guests began to say among themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?”

50Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

Yes.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Taken

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Then why don't we tell them that instead of telling them their works don't matter because salvation is not by works? Their lives show they aren't even saved in the first place for the once saved always saved debate to even matter, lol! That's why I say you're telling them the wrong message. The Bible doesn't tell us not to be concerned about our lives because salvation is not by works. It tells us to live a life that makes us ready to meet Christ when he comes back. But we don't tell people that. Instead we tell people the exact opposite that their behavior doesn't matter. You people keep hammering a doctrine that doesn't even matter. What matters is that we have a life of faith, prepared to meet Jesus when he comes back. Why don't you start telling people that? Are you afraid that is somehow a works gospel? If it is then Jesus taught a works gospel.

Do you know the Point of Salvation?

Do you know the Point of Works?

Glory to God,
Taken
 

justbyfaith

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Then why don't we tell them that instead of telling them their works don't matter because salvation is not by works?

Because salvation isn'tof works.

The Bible doesn't tell us not to be concerned about our lives because salvation is not by works.

You do not have to be concerned about your life if you have faith in Jesus Christ. You can know that you have everlasting life (1 John 5:13).

And salvation isn't of works (Romans 4:4-5, Titus 3:5-6, Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 11:5-6).
 

Ferris Bueller

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Because salvation isn'tof works.



You do not have to be concerned about your life if you have faith in Jesus Christ. You can know that you have everlasting life (1 John 5:13).

And salvation isn't of works (Romans 4:4-5, Titus 3:5-6, Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 11:5-6).
I see you still don't get the point. The troublesome part is you still don't get it even after it's explained to you.

The Bible doesn't tell us not to be concerned about our lives because salvation is not by works. It tells us to live a life that makes us ready to meet Christ when he comes back. But we don't tell people that. Instead we tell people the exact opposite that their behavior doesn't matter.
How you live matters because it's a direct measure of whether or not you really have faith in Christ and are prepared to meet him when he returns. The Bible calls that 'making your calling and election sure'. The church says 'I don't need to do that because I have faith and salvation is not by works'.
 
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Taken

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The Eternal Security Heresy: A Comprehensive Refutation of OSAS
OP ^

Divisional STANDING Revealed, IS Good to Know!

Jesus Offered Salvation.
Jesus Offered mankind A Way to be Gifted "WITH" and Recipients "OF" The Lords Salvation.

It IS Good to Know;
the DIVISION ...

• Of WHO, has Accepted and Received the Lords Offering.

• And WHO, Preaches AGAINST:
Those Who Have Accepted and Received the Lords Offering.

• And WHO, Preaches AGAINST:
Trusting The Word of God.

• Too Bad:
the "AGAINST Preachers", are unaware of the Consequences of "their" Preaching.

Matt 12:
[
30] He that is not
with me is against me...

Uh oh.

Glory to God,
He Offered, and I Accepted and Received His Gift of Salvation Once and Forever.


Taken
 

Taken

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Which one? When you first believe and are justified, or when Christ comes back?


What is a 'point of works'?

The Point of Salvation, is to Save a man "UNTO" God.
A Saved man IS Gods Inheritance!

The point of Works, is for a Saved man to "Glorify His God" in the Sight of Other men.

(men have become impressed by the fear and philosophies of men...preaching salvation is about saving a man "FROM hell", instead of saving a man "UNTO God"...
And:
Doing works to "GET a reward", instead of doing Works "TO Glorify their God.")

And the ridiculous arguing!
Salvation Given a man (BY God) has Nothing to do with Works.
Good Works (BY a Saved man), glorified that man's Almighty God.

Clearly one should Notice a Difference...
Of WHO is providing the Offer and Delivering the Gift of HIS Salvation.
And
OF WHO is doing Works to Glorify their God.

It is Two different parties (God and a man), doing Two Different things. (Giving gifts / doing works)

A man CAN NOT "DO WORKS" To Receive God Gift of Salvation.

Gods Gift of Faith IS Given a man FOR the man Hearing Gods Word.

Gods Gift of Salvation IS Given a man FOR the man Confessing his (Heartful) Belief in what he Heard.

BEFORE ^^^^ THAT is accomplished...
That man CAN DO NO WORKS, that Glorifies God!

You think A man Hearing, Confessing Heartful Belief and receiving Gifts From God....
IS a man's WORK?

Because in essence that is what you are preaching...."No Salvation without Works".

False.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Ferris Bueller

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Salvation Given a man (BY God) has Nothing to do with Works.
Salvation has everything to do with works. Just not for earning salvation. People who don't have works are not saved. But the church tells them they are saved because salvation is not by works. The church teaches that instead of what Jesus taught.
 

Ferris Bueller

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in essence that is what you are preaching...."No Salvation without Works".
I'm saying it because that's what the Bible says..........

Matthew 7:21
21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

1 Thessalonians 4:3
3For it is God’s will that you should be holy

Hebrews 12:14
14Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.

As we can see, no person without holiness will be saved when Jesus comes back. The church says that's not true because salvation is not by works. The church does not believe what the Bible says because it thinks that's a works gospel.
 

Taken

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Salvation has everything to do with works. Just not for earning salvation. People who don't have works are not saved. But the church tells them they are saved because salvation is not by works. The church teaches that instead of what Jesus taught.

Works Are NOT necessary to be Saved.

1 Cor 3
[15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Ferris Bueller

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Works Are NOT necessary to be Saved.
Works are necessary for salvation because Jesus himself said only those who do his will enter into the kingdom of God when he comes back. Your problem is you think that can only mean works earn salvation. That's why you don't believe Jesus' words. You can't fathom how you have to have works to show for your faith when Jesus comes back and that not be a works gospel. And so you mislead yourself and others into thinking you do not have to live for God in this life to be saved when Jesus comes back and that all you have to have is faith that is alone to be saved when Jesus comes back.

1 Cor 3
[15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
When we put these two passages together we can see right away that Paul can't be talking about not having works of holiness but still being saved when Jesus comes back...........

Matthew 7:21
21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

1 Corinthians 3:14-15
14If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15If it (his work) is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved

You've got Paul telling us we will be saved if we don't do the will of God while Jesus tells us we won't be saved if we don't do the will of God. These verses right here tell us that Paul is talking about the work one does in building up the kingdom of God, not one's work of personal holy living......

1 Corinthians 3:5-9
5What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. 7So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. 9For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building.