How to be saved (born again) and join the family of God!

justbyfaith said:

There is no merit towards salvation in the works of man. Salvation is by grace through faith apart from works (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5, Romans 11:5-6).

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baptized members of Christ in grace seek to practice good works

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Titus 3:8
This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

meritorious

Marymog said:

Thank you Christophany.

I agree with you that the people make up the church-the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:27). Scripture also says "that there should be no division in the body".

Soooooo when the body of Christ (the church) meets in a house what are we to do when they disagree (have division) with the body of Christ that meets in the coffee shop? Or when the park people have division with the backyard people on what it takes to obtain salvation?


Curious Mary

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I've had small groups over the years meeting in our home for the past 30 plus years. We open scripture and see what it says regarding issues that there might be differences of opinion on. Also there are primary or fundamental doctrines that are essential or core regarding salvation and others that are non essential as in not salvific in nature. So I practice the following:

In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Charity.

hope this helps !!!

Christophany said:

I've had small groups over the years meeting in our home for the past 30 plus years. We open scripture and see what it says regarding issues that there might be differences of opinion on. Also there are primary or fundamental doctrines that are essential or core regarding salvation and others that are non essential as in not salvific in nature. So I practice the following:

In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Charity.

hope this helps !!!

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Hi,

No, it didn't help. You added more questions in my mind....

Who decides what are 'essential or core doctrines regarding salvation'? Your small group OR the men of a Church that have 2,000 members OR men of a church that has 2 million members OR 1 billion members?

Mary

Marymog said:

Hi,

No, it didn't help. You added more questions in my mind....

Who decides what are 'essential or core doctrines regarding salvation'? Your small group OR the men of a Church that have 2,000 members OR men of a church that has 2 million members OR 1 billion members?

Mary

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Scripture.

1- the gospel- can a false gospel save ? see Galatians 1 and what is the gospel ?
2- God -who is God ?- can a false god save anyone ? see both testament's regarding false gods/idolotry
3- Jesus- who do people say that I Am ? can a false christ save ? see Matthew 24 Jesus teaching
4- salvation- what is required from Scripture for salvation? Jesus turned many awy from Him when confronting their sin and His Lordship over them counting the cost of being His disciple.

that is just a few ESSENTIALS, there are more.

Marymog said:

I stated that Jesus told the Apostles 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me."

You allege that Jesus "said that to everyone"?

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No, I "allege" that Jesus said that to everyone who is born again of the Holy Spirit.

Marymog said:

Can you show me in Scripture where He said that to "everyone"?

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2 Peter 1:3-4, Hebrews 11:33, 2 Corinthians 1:20, Romans 4:20-22.

Marymog said:

Ummmmm.....Are you not getting it thru the filter of your own mind??? You are interpreting the source thru your own mind!!!! That IS relativism!!! You are filtering it into what is relative to YOU....

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I'm saying that this is inevitable...everyone interprets things through the filter of their own mind...you cannot change that.

So if that is relativism then I suppose that relativism cannot be avoided...because everyone has a mind.

Personally, I think that it is better to study the Bible itself and filter that through my mind than to study what men have said about the Bible...which they have filtered through their minds. I would rather have the word of God than the words of men.

Marymog said:

Right......they gather together in a building (church)!!! Sooooo how is that building the pillar and foundation of truth? It can't be....

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Inasmuch as that building contains a gathering of people who believe in Jesus.

Marymog said:

Since a building can not be the pillar and foundation of truth something else has to be. Your theory is that the people in that church are the pillar and foundation of truth. That isn't logical since not every person in the building can have the truth since they all interpret scripture differently and have different truths.

Soooooo who in The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth?

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"not every person in the building can have the truth"...

do you concede that this is also true within the Catholic Church?

Marymog said:

The story about the Bereans in Scripture have NOTHING to do with determining what is true or false doctrine!!!

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It has everything to do with it. Because we determine what is false doctrine by comparing it to the sound doctrine found within the holy scriptures. I think that you agree with me that the holy scriptures are the word of the Lord; because they were written by men of the church; and to you the church has all authority.

So my question to you is, what happens when the holy scriptures (written by men of the church) contradict things that are taught by the Catholic Church?

Are the men who wrote the holy scriptures no longer considered to be authoritative as men of the church?

Marymog said:

Hmmmmm.......soooooo what about the Protestants that agree with (have same doctrine) some of the "Catholic interpretation of Scripture"?

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If they agreed with everything Catholic, they wouldn't be Protestants.

Marymog said:

Who decides what are 'essential or core doctrines regarding salvation'?

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I'm certain that among certain people there will be disagreement as to what is an essential or core doctrine regarding salvation. However, if we take the scripture at face value, we can determine from the holy scriptures that at least two to four things are essential:

1) The Deity of Christ (John 8:24).

2) That Jesus died for our sins according to the scriptures, was buried, and rose again the third day according to the scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

3) That Jesus is the Lord (1 Corinthians 12:3) and the Son of God (1 John 4:15, Isaiah 9:6).

4) That salvation is by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8-9).

I believe that Protestants are in agreement concerning these essentials; if anyone is not in agreement with these and yet tries to pass themselves off as Christian, they are considered to be a cult by mainstream Protestantism.

So, in answer to your question, there is an organization within Protestantism just as there is organization within the Catholic Church.

It is not organization that we are against, but we are definitely against certain false doctrines that are purported by the Catholic Church....and we know that they are false because we are a thinking people and check what is preached by the Catholic Church by the holy scriptures...and we find that when we put Catholic doctrine to the Berean test, it is found wanting.

theefaith said:

apart from works verses are referring to the redemption accomplished by Christ

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Of course....your point?

theefaith said:

baptized members of Christ in grace seek to practice good works

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Titus 3:8
This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

meritorious

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No, the works done by people after being saved are not meritorious towards salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, Romans 4:5-6, and Romans 11:5-6 all make it clear that works do not stand as meritorious towards salvation.

Christophany said:

Scripture.

1- the gospel- can a false gospel save ? see Galatians 1 and what is the gospel ?
2- God -who is God ?- can a false god save anyone ? see both testament's regarding false gods/idolotry
3- Jesus- who do people say that I Am ? can a false christ save ? see Matthew 24 Jesus teaching
4- salvation- what is required from Scripture for salvation? Jesus turned many awy from Him when confronting their sin and His Lordship over them counting the cost of being His disciple.

that is just a few ESSENTIALS, there are more.

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Thank you.

Scripture doesn't interpret Scripture. For 2,000 years men have been disagreeing on "core doctrines regarding salvation" (your words).

So, once again: Who decides what are 'essential or core doctrines regarding salvation'?

justbyfaith said:

No, I "allege" that Jesus said that to everyone who is born again of the Holy Spirit.

2 Peter 1:3-4, Hebrews 11:33, 2 Corinthians 1:20, Romans 4:20-22.

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Well, the passages you provided have NOTHING to do with me rejecting your word or you rejecting my word which in effect rejects Jesus but if that is your interpretation of those passages....so be it.

justbyfaith said:

Personally, I think that it is better to study the Bible itself and filter that through my mind than to study what men have said about the Bible...which they have filtered through their minds. I would rather have the word of God than the words of men.

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You trust your own interpretation of Scripture and your own filter over men who are experts in Jewish and Christian history, hermeneutics, exegesis and the language used to write Scripture?

Hmmmmm.......

justbyfaith said:

"not every person in the building can have the truth"...

do you concede that this is also true within the Catholic Church?

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I concede and The Church concedes and logic concedes that not every person in the building can have the truth. That is why The Church has the Magisterium. What do you have to come to the truth? Yourself?

Marymog said:

Thank you.

Scripture doesn't interpret Scripture. For 2,000 years men have been disagreeing on "core doctrines regarding salvation" (your words).

So, once again: Who decides what are 'essential or core doctrines regarding salvation'?

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Of course Scripture interprets Scripture. Just look at Paul in Romans and Hebrews with all the OT quotes and interpretation of them. Jesus did the same thing in the gospels.

Jesus used the phrase " the kingdom of God/heaven over 100 times and tied the gospel into the kingdom.

Do you think that it might be important /essential ?

Isaiah 28:10
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little.”

And Jesus spoke in parables then followed them up with explaining their meaning to His disciples. Jesus interpreted scripture for them. He did that on numerous occasions even after His resurrection.

Luke 24:25-27
25 And He said to them, "O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26 " Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?" 27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

Luke 24:44-45
44Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled." 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,

hope this helps !!!

Marymog said:

Scripture doesn't interpret Scripture.

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That is a lie that goes against everything that we believe as Christians.

Marymog said:

You trust your own interpretation of Scripture and your own filter over men who are experts in Jewish and Christian history, hermeneutics, exegesis and the language used to write Scripture?

Hmmmmm.......

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I trust the word of God more than the word of man.

Marymog said:

I concede and The Church concedes and logic concedes that not every person in the building can have the truth. That is why The Church has the Magisterium. What do you have to come to the truth? Yourself?

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The Holy Ghost (John 16:13). We do not trust in men but in God the Holy Ghost to be the interpreter of holy scripture to our minds. He is the "Wonderful Counsellor..." and He is the one who best ministers to the body of Christ, through His word. I am best ministered to not by someone's interpretation of the word; but by the word itself.

Christophany said:

Of course Scripture interprets Scripture. Just look at Paul in Romans and Hebrews with all the OT quotes and interpretation of them. Jesus did the same thing in the gospels.

Jesus used the phrase " the kingdom of God/heaven over 100 times and tied the gospel into the kingdom.

Do you think that it might be important /essential ?

Isaiah 28:10
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little.”

And Jesus spoke in parables then followed them up with explaining their meaning to His disciples. Jesus interpreted scripture for them. He did that on numerous occasions even after His resurrection.

Luke 24:25-27
25 And He said to them, "O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26 " Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?" 27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

Luke 24:44-45
44Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled." 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,

hope this helps !!!

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Lol....I stopped reading your post after the first 5 words (Of course Scripture interprets Scripture.) soooo I don't know what else you wrote.

Thank you for your interpretation of Scripture......

Marymog said:

Lol....I stopped reading your post after the first 5 words (Of course Scripture interprets Scripture.) soooo I don't know what else you wrote.

Thank you for your interpretation of Scripture......

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likewise when I read about mary,the saints and the church over Jesus and the Apostles it tells me you have no clue about what is sound biblical doctrine and how to discern Truth from error. And like the OP how one becomes a born again believer.

Can you exegete Ephesians 2:8-10 ?

hope this helps !!!

justbyfaith said:

That is a lie that goes against everything that we believe as Christians.

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What I find fascinating is that I said Scripture does not interpret Scripture and you called that a lie.

Then, at the end of your post, you say that the Holy Ghost is the interpreter of Scripture to our minds. Soooooo what you are saying is that the Holy Spirit enlightens you to the true/correct/accurate interpretation of Scripture? If your theory were true then why does the Holy Spirit give different men, all who claim to be guided by the Holy Spirit, different interpretations? Why did Scripture give us the example that only the leaders of The Church are guided by The Spirit when deciding what all Christians are to believe (Council of Jerusalem)? How about the passage that men will twist Scripture and Scripture is hard to understand?

Can you see how your theory is not logical and is un-biblical? How what you are preaching is opposite of what the bible teaches?

Christophany said:

likewise when I read about mary,the saints and the church over Jesus and the Apostles

it tells me you have no clue about what is sound biblical doctrine and how to discern Truth from error.

And like the OP how one becomes a born again believer.

Can you exegete Ephesians 2:8-10 ?

hope this helps !!!

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WOW.....You read about Mary, the saints and the church OVER Jesus and the Apostles? Why did you waste your money on such an anti-Catholic propaganda lying book?

Since you know what is sound biblical doctrine and how to discern Truth from error you should write a book so that ALL of Christianity will know what you know and then we can all be as educated as you on Scripture. After all, why wouldn't you want all of Christianity to know the Truth? Why are you wasting your God given talent on a website with only a few thousand people?

One becomes a born again believer (a Christian) when they believe the teachings of Christ and are born again thru water and Spirit....Just like Jesus said: Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Exegesis is critical explanation or interpretation of a text! One must take all of Scripture into account when isolating a certain subject of which you have done when asking me to exegete Ephesians 2:8-10. So here is the exegesis of that passage: It says that we are saved by a gift from God--grace! We receive the gift of grace thru faith and it is not the result of our works HOWEVER we are created in Christ Jesus for good works, which is to be our way of life.

Soooooo Christophany, What good is it if someone says they have faith but they do not practice works? Can that faith save him Christophany? Did you know that faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

I believe Christians should learn to devote themselves to good works so that others may see our good works? Do you believe that Christophany?

Do you, Christophany, think that those who believe in God should be devote themselves to good works? And if we do these good works they are excellent and profitable for us Christophany?

Curious Mary

justbyfaith said:

I'm certain that among certain people there will be disagreement as to what is an essential or core doctrine regarding salvation. However, if we take the scripture at face value, we can determine from the holy scriptures that at least two to four things are essential:

1) The Deity of Christ (John 8:24).

2) That Jesus died for our sins according to the scriptures, was buried, and rose again the third day according to the scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

3) That Jesus is the Lord (1 Corinthians 12:3) and the Son of God (1 John 4:15, Isaiah 9:6).

4) That salvation is by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8-9).

I believe that Protestants are in agreement concerning these essentials; if anyone is not in agreement with these and yet tries to pass themselves off as Christian, they are considered to be a cult by mainstream Protestantism.

So, in answer to your question, there is an organization within Protestantism just as there is organization within the Catholic Church.

It is not organization that we are against, but we are definitely against certain false doctrines that are purported by the Catholic Church....and we know that they are false because we are a thinking people and check what is preached by the Catholic Church by the holy scriptures...and we find that when we put Catholic doctrine to the Berean test, it is found wanting.

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Thank you JBF for your heartfelt response.

Numbers 1-3 are universally accepted by Christianity.

#4 is does not show everything that Scripture teaches on the matter of works. I ask you Justbyfiath: What good is it if someone says they have faith but they do not practice works? Can that faith save him? Did you know that faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

I believe Christians should learn to devote themselves to good works so that others may see our good works? Do you believe that JBF?

Do you, justbyfaith, think that those who believe in God should be devote themselves to good works? And if we do these good works they are excellent and profitable for us JBF?

So in summary salvation STARTS with our faith and a gift from God--grace! We continue that faith by doing good works. Giving money to the poor is a good work! If you JBF wish to be perfect you should go sell your possessions and give the money to the poor so that you will have treasure in heaven.

justbyfaith said:

It is not organization that we are against, but we are definitely against certain false doctrines that are purported by the Catholic Church....and we know that they are false because we are a thinking people and check what is preached by the Catholic Church by the holy scriptures...and we find that when we put Catholic doctrine to the Berean test, it is found wanting.

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Some Protestant denominations call certain doctrines of The Church false while some Protestant denominations say those same doctrines are not false.

There are Protestants that are "thinking people and check what is preached by the Catholic Church" that have "put Catholic doctrine to the Berean test" and determined The Church is RIGHT in their teaching and agree with The Church on some doctrine. Sooooo are they really wrong since they agree with The Church and don't agree with other Protestants?

Curious Mary

yes like the pope being the pontiff-vicar(a god, the god on earth) lol- no wonder they woke up and broke off from their unfaithful mother. WTG Luther !

Jesus sure opened up his eyes/heart to understand Truth from error.