The Eternal Security Heresy: A Comprehensive Refutation of OSAS

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Ferris Bueller

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So, faith alone produces salvation
Yes, but you should say it the way Paul says it to avoid confusing it with the faith alone that can not save. Paul says faith apart from works saves you. James says faith that is alone, producing no works, can not save you, and for the reasons you gave. Lots of Christians think Paul is saying that all you have to have is dead faith to be saved when Jesus comes back because they think that's what faith apart from works means. Whole churches and denominations believe wrongly that James is just teaching the same thing that Paul is teaching and vice versa. And so they are teaching people that they are safe in their dead faith and will be saved when Jesus comes back. They do not know that their dead faith shows them they are not saved and not ready to be judged by Christ when he comes back.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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Seriously...could you quote me a Scripture that says..."works gospel"?
It's the phrase the church uses for the "other gospel", the gospel of being made righteous by works of the law (Galatians 1:9). But there is definitely more than one "other gospel" (2 Corinthians 11:4). I can't believe you've never heard it called that. Do you go to church? If not, have you ever gone to church? I mean a Protestant church.
 

Ferris Bueller

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What is Faith with deeds worth?
A lot. Faith with deeds makes your calling and election sure. It ensures that you really are a believer and ready to be judged when Jesus comes back. Faith without deeds shows you do not really have faith in God and that you are not ready to meet Jesus at the judgment when he returns.
 

Taken

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Justified is defined as making one righteous, and it is also defined as showing one to be righteous. Faith makes you righteous. That's what Paul is talking about. Works show you are righteous. That's what James is talking about. You have to be justified in both these ways, faith and works, to be saved from going to the lake of fire when Jesus comes back. Because people who have been made righteous by faith are new people who do new things.

A man Hearing receives Faith from God.
Is that man righteous?
If a man stops hearing, is he how unrighteousness?

How about a person who builds a clinic for poor people?
Do you account him righteous?
What if you do not know he is an atheist?
 

Ferris Bueller

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A man Hearing receives Faith from God.
Is that man righteous?
If a man stops hearing, is he how unrighteousness?
I think it much more important to make sure you're even saved in the first place then to talk once saved always saved teachings to death.

How about a person who builds a clinic for poor people?
Do you account him righteous?
What if you do not know he is an atheist?
You have to look at the whole of their life. That's why you have to look at all of this in terms of the fruit of the Spirit. Unsaved people do not have the qualities of the Spirit that they do not have. They may do good here and there but they do not have the qualities of the Spirit and are still living in the same old lives they've always had. Righteous works are just as much about what you don't do as what you do.
 

Taken

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A lot. Faith with deeds makes your calling and election sure. It ensures that you really are a believer and ready to be judged when Jesus comes back. Faith without deeds shows you do not really have faith in God and that you are not ready to meet Jesus at the judgment when he returns.

What deeds?
 

Ferris Bueller

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What deeds?
It tells us in the two places in the Bible where it talks about making your calling and election sure.

Hebrews 6:10-12
9Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are convinced of better things in your case—the things that have to do with salvation. 10God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them. 11We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, so that what you hope for may be fully realized. 12We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised.

Hebrews 10:32-34
32Remember those earlier days after you had received the light, when you endured in a great conflict full of suffering. 33Sometimes you were publicly exposed to insult and persecution; at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated. 34You suffered along with those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, because you knew that you yourselves had better and lasting possessions.

2 Peter 1:5-11
5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

10Therefore, my brothers and sisters, a make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Now compare all this to what Jesus said in Matthew 25:31-46 and see how similar it is....

31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

You can see the works of the do-good atheist don't exactly measure up to the works of the genuine Christian. Christians have works that are exclusive to real Christians with real faith. Works that Christ will use to judge who belongs to him and who does not when he comes back. Only real Christians love the body of Christ. Christians who think their dead faith is the faith that saves need to realize they have been lied to by the churches that teach this. Dead faith will be judged as NO faith when Jesus comes back.
 

Taken

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I think it much more important to make sure you're even saved in the first place then to talk once saved always saved teachings to death.

I believe the Whole Truth is important.

Scripture reveals Both the Unsaved and Saved CAN and DO receive Gods Gift of Faith.
However...
Scripture reveals a defining Difference Between...
The Unsaved man gifted with Faith;
and
The Saved man gifted with Faith.
Jesus Expressly reveals the difference:
CONVERSION.

It is about the ORDER and WAY.

Christianity is Difficult for one NOT in Christianity does not Understand...things such a Saved and Unsaved man receiving Blessings and Gifts from God.

Even men IN Christianity have Difficulty Discussing Christianity, Because they presume and never clarify precisely WHAT meaning/ application they are in their own thought Thinking ...for example FAITH...
Faith of a Converted Saved man...or Faith of an unsaved man?

AND forward discussing WORKS;
OR Circumcision; OR theology Terms men make up.

It appears in Scripture---
Teaching-
...Faith saves a man.
...Grace Saves a man.
...Faith without deeds/works is dead Faith.

Those are the kinds of thing men- PICK to believe,- when it Fact they are all true- and To understand,- is Determined BY what man The Facts Apply to, and Why.

Is a Converted (Saved) man's FAITH "dead", without WORKS of that man ?
No.

If the man IS Converted, he IS Saved...
If he Does NOT ONE Works to Glorify God;
that man IS still Saved.

1 Cor 3:15
[15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Righteous works are just as much about what you don't do as what you do.

That is a funky way to explain "Righteous Works"
Righteousness Is One thing accounted FOR Behavior.
Works involve "doing"...not, NOT Doing.
Not doing something IS NOT "work".
You are mixing two things.
Choices determine what is Righteous.
Doing No work, does not determine A Work.
 

Taken

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It tells us in the two places in the Bible where it talks about making your calling and election sure.

Hebrews 6:10-12
9Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are convinced of better things in your case—the things that have to do with salvation. 10God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them. 11We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, so that what you hope for may be fully realized. 12We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised.

Hebrews 10:32-34
32Remember those earlier days after you had received the light, when you endured in a great conflict full of suffering. 33Sometimes you were publicly exposed to insult and persecution; at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated. 34You suffered along with those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, because you knew that you yourselves had better and lasting possessions.

2 Peter 1:5-11
5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

10Therefore, my brothers and sisters, a make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Now compare all this to what Jesus said in Matthew 25:31-46 and see how similar it is....

31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

You can see the works of the do-good atheist don't exactly measure up to the works of the genuine Christian. Christians have works that are exclusive to real Christians with real faith. Works that Christ will use to judge who belongs to him and who does not when he comes back. Only real Christians love the body of Christ. Christians who think their dead faith is the faith that saves need to realize they have been lied to by the churches that teach this. Dead faith will be judged as NO faith when Jesus comes back.

Well aware.

Do you call, Answering a Call....
A Work? A deed? Or something else?
Do you call, Making an Election...
A Work? A deed? Or something else?

Do you think Work and Deed mean the same thing?
 

Ferris Bueller

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Do you call, Answering a Call....
A Work? A deed? Or something else?
I call that placing your faith in Christ for the forgiveness of your sin.

Do you call, Making an Election...
A Work? A deed? Or something else?
God is the one who elects. It's a decision. One that he makes not us. And he makes that decision in response to our faith in Christ. Our duty is to 'make sure' that we really do believe and that God really has elected us and made us ready to stand before Jesus at the resurrection to be judged. We do that by testing to see if we are really in the faith. Our ability to do the works of righteousness I posted is the test we need to pass to see if we are really called and elected to salvation.

Do you think Work and Deed mean the same thing?
Identical.
 

Ferris Bueller

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That is a funky way to explain "Righteous Works"
Righteousness Is One thing accounted FOR Behavior.
Works involve "doing"...not, NOT Doing.
Not doing something IS NOT "work".
You are mixing two things.
Choices determine what is Righteous.
Doing No work, does not determine A Work.
Then Peter was wrong to say 'do' these things (vs10) when he described the 'qualities' (vs8) of the Spirit in 2 Peter 1:5-11.
 

Ferris Bueller

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If he Does NOT ONE Works to Glorify God;
that man IS still Saved.

1 Cor 3:15
[15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
You're using a verse about not having the work of saving people into the church to defend an argument about not having personal works of holiness. When you do that you cause Paul to be in direct contradiction of Jesus and John who say you are not saved if you have no works. Why are you ignoring the context of 1 Corinthians 3:8-17 and saying Paul is talking about the works of ones personal life of obedience? All you have to do is read it and see Paul is talking about one's work of building up others into the kingdom of God. You don't have to have those works to be saved when Jesus comes back. But you do have to have works of personal holiness to be saved when Jesus comes back. Because only true believers have those works.
 

CharismaticLady

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I call that placing your faith in Christ for the forgiveness of your sin.


God is the one who elects. It's a decision. One that he makes not us. And he makes that decision in response to our faith in Christ. Our duty is to 'make sure' that we really do believe and that God really has elected us and made us ready to stand before Jesus at the resurrection to be judged. We do that by testing to see if we are really in the faith. Our ability to do the works of righteousness I posted is the test we need to pass to see if we are really called and elected to salvation.


Identical.

So, you do not believe in the theory that God elects us before we know anything about Christ?
 

Ferris Bueller

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So, you do not believe in the theory that God elects us before we know anything about Christ?
Not the way Calvinism says we are elected beforehand. You are elected to salvation when you believe in Christ. But God knew before the world even existed that you would be one that would believe and be elected to salvation. And not because he was going to purposely make you to be a believer.
 
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justbyfaith

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And that's why people who do not have works will not be saved when Jesus comes back. They show by their lives that they do not have faith in God and that they are still the old creation they have always been. That is why a person must be justified by both faith and works to be saved.

You have already admitted that the one who calls on the name of the Lord and then passes on into the next life one minute later shall indeed be saved; so I have no beef with you.

I will say that if someone calls on the name of the Lord and has one work that the Lord preordained for them to walk in...and then misses out on that opportunity for some reason...because they called on the name of the Lord they shall (still) be saved (Romans 10:13).

Because the scripture cannot be broken; and Romans 10:13 is an absolute promise; even to the one who never exhibits any works after having been redeemed.

I say this so that people will not enter into what I call a "works trip mentality"...in which they begin to feel that they are not saved unless they are working hard to maintain their salvation.

The works that we do in Christ ought to be done out of an ease of resting in the Lord...in which there is a labour of love for the other person...but no pressure to keep up the good work in order that the self might be saved.

Such a thing turns the motivation into something devilish...it is rooted in selfishness.

But when you do what you do because the Lord has shed abroad His love in your heart and you are genuinely doing it for that other person, this is acceptable with God.

Does it save you? No...because you have already been saved by grace through faith....and that not of yourself...it is the gfit of the Lord...not of works, lest any man should boast.
 

CharismaticLady

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It means that the Lord accounts me as righteous even if I have not done any kind of good work to save myself.

I agree in that justification is when all our past sins are cleansed, and makes us clean, thus righteous. And the gift of the Holy Spirit can keep us righteous as it makes us dead to sin.
 
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