Logos

FollowHim · Oct 13, 2020

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.
5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
6 There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John.
7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe.
8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.
10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.
John 1:1-11

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 1:14

John's gospel was written to add the spiritual dimension to the more historical gospels, to teach theology and origins. The big question being raised by believers was who was Jesus?

John wishes to answer this, by showing how Jesus could be eternal, part of the trinity yet not be the Father, but a human man, who walked and spoke with men. John introduces this subject starting with Jesus as the Word, or rather the Word showing himself as Jesus the man.

This is why John spends so much time explaining who the Word is.
Heretics and blind fools will not see this truth, because for them to admit Jesus is God is to destroy what they believe and admit they do not know Him. It has been illuminating to read how a concept someone cannot accept which is clearly laid out must mean something else.

Jesus is God in human form, to which the elect testify.

16 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
17 Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
Matt 16:16-17

This is only discerned via the Holy Spirit so those not born again, brought into the Kingdom will not see it, and will look for any other explanation, because their hearts will turn away from God as do every sinner on earth. It is the nature of our hearts out of communion with the Father.

God bless

FollowHim · Oct 13, 2020

Below is a posting from someone who believes Logos is not Jesus and Jesus is not God

Consider the ramifications of your position versus mine, on Judgement Day? Who will have all the explaining to do? Do you expect to see three divine persons on the tribunal? Will you recognize who is who when, according to trinitarian theology, there is absolutely nothing that distinguishes one from the other, besides their names - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?
Or will there only be one, and if one, how will you address Him - Father, Son, or Holy Spirit?
Do you really think that the 'I Am' statements will justify your position before Him, to call Him three-in-one, or Jesus the god-man?
...you won't even dare open up your mouth with such nonsense, when you are before Him!

The above illustration misses a few simple pictures
1. Revelation where the Lamb takes His seat at the right hand of the Father
2. Jesus called us to make disciples "baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"
If there is only the Father that is significant, why the three names to baptise people in.
3. If Jesus is not God, why the cross, why is it significant? The whole point is God was prepared to take sin and forgive, by literally suffering under the hand of sinners, to be murdered by them, abused by them, to have reject everything one stands for and teaches and still forgive them.
And it is significant because Jesus was God. And it is the power of depth of love that the Father has for us shown by Jesus that bring healing and life to our souls, literally. A created being who was created to withstand this problem and sin, would never have done. The glory was this was God, humbling himself that His people might see Him for who He is, love in perfection, not just the almighty, holy and unapproachable, but so much, much more.

Closed hard hearts can never grasp this significance, its healing and its power, that drives the whole world and every waking moment we have.
I cannot state this enough times, the problem is not God, it is our fear and hurt that has been dealt to us in life, that means we shut down and shut out, that God is calling us to express and to learn that He has healing that is eternal and that will never end.

Jesus is Gods heart. Those who have not embraced Him, will be undone so all that is left is weeping and gnashing of teeth. Not out of fear but literally because everything in their life just unravels, and the husk that is left is just doomed and empty, nothing makes sense and there is no life only random reactions....

101G · Oct 13, 2020

FollowHim said:
The above illustration misses a few simple pictures
1. Revelation where the Lamb takes His seat at the right hand of the Father

where is that scripture at in the bible? that someone is "actually" seated next to "JESUS" on the throne? please post book chapter and verse.

thanks in advance.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

marks · Oct 13, 2020

FollowHim said:
Closed hard hearts can never grasp this significance, its healing and its power, that drives the whole world and every waking moment we have.
I cannot state this enough times, the problem is not God, it is our fear and hurt that has been dealt to us in life, that means we shut down and shut out, that God is calling us to express and to learn that He has healing that is eternal and that will never end.

Jesus is Gods heart. Those who have not embraced Him, will be undone so all that is left is weeping and gnashing of teeth. Not out of fear but literally because everything in their life just unravels, and the husk that is left is just doomed and empty, nothing makes sense and there is no life only random reactions....

There are those who can't seem to understand, our Faithful and Unseen Creator Himself came to rescue us. Not another. Himself!

Much love!

justbyfaith · Oct 13, 2020

If you understand 1 Corinthians 8:6, Ephesians 4:6, and James 3:9 (kjv),

you will know that when we refer to God we are referring to the Father.

Therefore, John 1:1 can be rephrased:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the Father, and the Word was the Father.

The Father (a Spirit that inhabiteth eternity, Isaiah 57:15) became flesh and dwelt among us (John 1:14); and also released His Spirit (also the Father) back to His former self; to exist side-by-side with Him in eternity (Luke 23:46).

Thus the Word who became flesh, was next to the Spirit whom He would release back to Himself at the time of His human death (Luke 23:46), into eternity.

The Word who would become flesh (the pre-incarnate Jesus, the Father), dwelt side-by-side with the Holy Ghost, whom Jesus would release back into eternity (outside of time) to exist side-by-side with the Father.

And the Holy Ghost is also the Father (John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11, Luke 23:46, Ephesians 4:4) as He was released back to the Father with the title of Holy Ghost to distinguish Him from the pre-incarnate Jesus.

Thus John 1:1 holds to be true as I have explained it to be true.

A key verse that helps us to understand John 1:1 therefore, is Ephesians 4:10.

APAK · Oct 13, 2020

FollowHim said:
Below is a posting from someone who believes Logos is not Jesus and Jesus is not God

Consider the ramifications of your position versus mine, on Judgement Day? Who will have all the explaining to do? Do you expect to see three divine persons on the tribunal? Will you recognize who is who when, according to trinitarian theology, there is absolutely nothing that distinguishes one from the other, besides their names - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?
Or will there only be one, and if one, how will you address Him - Father, Son, or Holy Spirit?
Do you really think that the 'I Am' statements will justify your position before Him, to call Him three-in-one, or Jesus the god-man?
...you won't even dare open up your mouth with such nonsense, when you are before Him!

The above illustration misses a few simple pictures
1. Revelation where the Lamb takes His seat at the right hand of the Father
2. Jesus called us to make disciples "baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"
If there is only the Father that is significant, why the three names to baptise people in.
3. If Jesus is not God, why the cross, why is it significant? The whole point is God was prepared to take sin and forgive, by literally suffering under the hand of sinners, to be murdered by them, abused by them, to have reject everything one stands for and teaches and still forgive them.
And it is significant because Jesus was God. And it is the power of depth of love that the Father has for us shown by Jesus that bring healing and life to our souls, literally. A created being who was created to withstand this problem and sin, would never have done. The glory was this was God, humbling himself that His people might see Him for who He is, love in perfection, not just the almighty, holy and unapproachable, but so much, much more.

Closed hard hearts can never grasp this significance, its healing and its power, that drives the whole world and every waking moment we have.
I cannot state this enough times, the problem is not God, it is our fear and hurt that has been dealt to us in life, that means we shut down and shut out, that God is calling us to express and to learn that He has healing that is eternal and that will never end.

Jesus is Gods heart. Those who have not embraced Him, will be undone so all that is left is weeping and gnashing of teeth. Not out of fear but literally because everything in their life just unravels, and the husk that is left is just doomed and empty, nothing makes sense and there is no life only random reactions....

Stooping pretty low here FH. I didn't know you had it in you. I was fooled. I thought you were genuine when you preached love for others. I guess this person you have singled out here does not deserve this love. Just lip service then? You should be ashamed of yourself by using another sincere believer to puff yourself up and debase him as you apparently have contempt for him.

Furthermore, you have so far shown much ignorance of your knowledge of scripture. Just look at your OP? You are embarrassing yourself here. I don't need a response on this. It is your show here.

I do believe you need to apologize to this brother, in love. Why don't you try presenting your views in kindness and love and not with pride and disgust for this person, and others like him. I believe I would be included in this class.

Although, If they were my words used here, I would not care about any apology from you, as I know you already. You have shown your true colors. I would just confront you, head-on, with energy, assertiveness, scripture, in truth and and yes in love, the kind that you seem to be lacking here.

Bless you,

APAK

justbyfaith · Oct 13, 2020

@APAK,

Which of @FollowHim's words above, specifically, do you think are lacking in love?

Because I, in searching through what he said, could not find what you are talking about.

justbyfaith · Oct 13, 2020

101G said:
where is that scripture at in the bible? that someone is "actually" seated next to "JESUS" on the throne? please post book chapter and verse.

thanks in advance.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Mark 16:19.

APAK · Oct 13, 2020

justbyfaith said:
Mark 16:19.

FH cut and pasted the exact words of another person he violently disagrees with for his Post #2 to support his OP. He did not have the courage and decency to even quote him. Some folks would use the words back stabber here...Can I make it any clearer for you...

justbyfaith · Oct 13, 2020

APAK said:
FH cut and pasted the exact words of another person he violently disagrees with for his Post #2 to support his OP. He did not have the courage and decency to even quote him. Some folks would use the words back stabber here...Can I make it any clearer for you...

He did not name that person, did he?

I think that if he named the person it would be more of a backstabbing.

But I see nothing wrong with his behaviour.

Cutting and pasting someone's words is not a sin.

That person can come here and respond to the things that he has said about his quote as soon as he becomes aware of the fact that he has quoted him.

Most people who frequent boards like this don't fail to look at every new thread to see what is going on therein.

It is also true that if he copied and pasted the man's words, that is the same thing as quoting him.

APAK · Oct 13, 2020

justbyfaith said:
He did not name that person, did he?

I think that if he named the person it would be more of a backstabbing.

But I see nothing wrong with his behaviour.

Cutting and pasting someone's words is not a sin.

That person can come here and respond to the things that he has said about his quote as soon as he becomes aware of the fact that he has quoted him.

Most people who frequent boards like this don't fail to look at every new thread to see what is going on therein.

it is also true that if he copied and pasted the man's words, that is the same thing as quoting him.

You have your opinion of course..and I see it very differently...we are talking about a fellow real believer here that is being accused without representation or the opportunity to reply..let that sink in a bit..I hope you don't think it is ok to slander others, and so easily then..and that what this amounts to here .I take this posting much more personally that you do evidentally...

Until later then...bye for now

justbyfaith · Oct 14, 2020

APAK said:
we are talking about a fellow real believer here

If he denies the Deity of Christ, he is not a fellow "real" believer.

APAK said:
I hope you don't think it is ok to slander others,

I really don't think that @FollowHim slandered anyone. What did he say that was slander? And also, he did not mention the name of the person but was really only responding to what the person said. So, how is it slander?

FollowHim · Oct 14, 2020

APAK said:
You have your opinion of course..and I see it very differently...we are talking about a fellow real believer here that is being accused without representation or the opportunity to reply..let that sink in a bit..I hope you don't think it is ok to slander others, and so easily then..and that what this amounts to here .I take this posting much more personally that you do evidentally...

Until later then...bye for now

Let me put positions into context.
Those who agree with me look at the words and see one set of meanings. To us we cannot see another perspective, because of our assumptions.

To put this into context it helps to put a different perspective in full. On a forum I came across a position called hyper grace, I wondered who held it. Turns out quite a lot of people, but it was so extreme, until they spoke their positions it could be imagined as fake.

Hatred, anger, deep resentment often are expressed by these extremes. It is odd, because one puts on the light and shows the real comparisons, the light is so bright the word "slander" is used.

There is no point engaging at this point because the feelings and position run so deep. And the issue is life and death, salvation or condemnation, so the most important topic in our existence. I have no bad feelings about sinners doomed to hell, just to call them to Jesus and repentance.

God bless you

FollowHim · Oct 14, 2020

APAK said:
Stooping pretty low here FH. I didn't know you had it in you. I was fooled. I thought you were genuine when you preached love for others. I guess this person you have singled out here does not deserve this love. Just lip service then? You should be ashamed of yourself by using another sincere believer to puff yourself up and debase him as you apparently have contempt for him.

Furthermore, you have so far shown much ignorance of your knowledge of scripture. Just look at your OP? You are embarrassing yourself here. I don't need a response on this. It is your show here.

I do believe you need to apologize to this brother, in love. Why don't you try presenting your views in kindness and love and not with pride and disgust for this person, and others like him. I believe I would be included in this class.

Although, If they were my words used here, I would not care about any apology from you, as I know you already. You have shown your true colors. I would just confront you, head-on, with energy, assertiveness, scripture, in truth and and yes in love, the kind that you seem to be lacking here.

Bless you,

APAK

I am stooping low?
I have been told my faith in Jesus dooms me to judgement. Emotionally this is a direct attack on Jesus and who He is, and my faith in Him.

In eternal significance there is no more important issue than this. It is my life and my walk. I am like an ant someone desires to crush and destroy. This is the context. My response is the light of Jesus and His word, blessing and love to those with this intent. In the darkness of people's hearts these words mean nothing, cause no empathy or understanding, because I have faced this many times before. Believers have died through the centuries facing this and praising God.

And our response as the body of Christ will always be the same, because He is Lord, Messiah, King over all, Praise His glorious name, Amen

FollowHim · Oct 14, 2020

101G said:
where is that scripture at in the bible? that someone is "actually" seated next to "JESUS" on the throne? please post book chapter and verse.

thanks in advance.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

56 "Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."
Acts 7:56

1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God.
Col 3:1

19 That power is like the working of his mighty strength,
20 which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms,
Eph 1:19-20

69 But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God."
Luke 22:69

6 Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.
7 He came and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne.
8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints
Rev 5:6-8

"To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"
Rev 5:13

15 And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore, "they are before the throne of God and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will spread his tent over them.
Rev 7:15

17 For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; he will lead them to springs of living water. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.
Rev 7:17

There are two themes above, Jesus at the right hand of God, and the Lamb on the throne, both God and separate from God the Father.
The right hand is a symbol of favour and power from the one who sits on the throne. John in revelation adds the trinity aspect that Jesus is also God, so on the throne with His Father, except Jesus is not the same as the Father though they are one. If Jesus was identical in all aspects as the Father, He would be the Father, so to be distinct, with limitations, He must be different.

This dilemma is something if one tries to resolve too definitively, one ends up rejecting who Jesus is. We want black and white answers to everything like the child always asking "why", but there is a point of acceptance by love, trust and faith. I trust my house will keep me safe each day, I do not investigate it constantly and want proof that it is still ok, what I have is enough. Jesus rising from the dead in the context He set is enough for me to declare Him to be God. God bless you

justbyfaith · Oct 14, 2020

God is a Spirit (John 4:24).

Jesus is God (the same Spirit, Ephesians 4:4) in the flesh.

101G · Oct 14, 2020

justbyfaith said:
Mark 16:19.

first thanks for the reply, second, ERROR on your Part. There is only one THRONE... listen, Revelation 4:2 "And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne."

understand, sit down on the RIGHT HAND, is symbolic for in power. scripture, Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool." so the Lord is sitting, which means not to rest because he is tired, no, but a sitting priest as he is "finish" from his priestly duties. now watch this in Psalms 110, but at verse 5. Psalms 110:5 "The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath." (HOLD IT, how is the Lord goung to strike through kings in the day of his wrath if he is sitting?), listen back to verse 2, Psalms 110:2 "The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies."
the rod is his POWER, and his rule is his wisdom, who is God's power and wisdom? lets check the record, 1 Corinthians 1:24 "But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God." BINGO. this is what Revelation chapter 5 is showing us.

Now justbyfaith, one other thing, there is no throne big enough for God almighty to sit. #1. he's a Spirit, listen to God, Jeremiah 23:23 "Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off?"
Jeremiah 23:24 "Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD."

now if he fills both heaven and earth how is he going to sit?, it's symbolic and metaphoric, listen, Isaiah 66:1 "Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?"

now think justbyfaith, if heaven is his throne and he fills heaven, so where is the Lord Jesus going to squezee his Lazy boy seat in at? just think for a minuite. God fills HEAVEN and Earth. are you getting this.

see as High priest he's at rest, "sitting" finish from his work. but he also stands in his work as King, scripture, Acts 7:54 "When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth."
Acts 7:55 "But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God," (STOP and THINK, 2 thing, a. God is a Spirit, unseen. b. if Standing, then our Lord Is in disobedience, because Psalms 110:1 said, sit until his enemies is made his footstool. now, has all of the Lord Jesus enemies.. at Acts 7:55 been made his footstool? no, because there are some here right now today. so if he was "ACTUAL" standing then he would bein violation of scripture that said he was to sit until his enemies is made his footstool. see your error now?).
Acts 7:56 "And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God."
NOTICE it is the Son of Man who he sees, and NOT the Son of God. but remember, the Son of Man is spirit, yes, but the Son of Man have a body... (smile). this is good.

so sitting down is not "Literal", just as he, God, JESUS, rested from his "CREATIVE" WORK, now he Maintains it. we suggest you look up term, "God's Right Hand...

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

101G · Oct 14, 2020

justbyfaith said:
God is a Spirit (John 4:24).

Jesus is God (the same Spirit, Ephesians 4:4) in the flesh.

Correct, 100%. now the question, is how is Jesus God, who according to Phil 2:6 is equal with God. NOTICE, it did not say, "equal TO, TO, TO, God, but "WITH" God. that's the crust of the matter.

we at Diversified Oneness say JESUS is the EQUAL "Share" of God, meaning the "ANOTHER" of himself in Flesh as G243 allos points out.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

101G · Oct 14, 2020

FollowHim said:
56 "Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."
Acts 7:56

we suggest you read Post #17

QUOTE="FollowHim, post: 857171, member: 8343"]There are two themes above, Jesus at the right hand of God, and the Lamb on the throne, both God and separate from God the Father.
The right hand is a symbol of favour and power from the one who sits on the throne. John in revelation adds the trinity aspect that Jesus is also God, so on the throne with His Father, except Jesus is not the same as the Father though they are one. If Jesus was identical in all aspects as the Father, He would be the Father, so to be distinct, with limitations, He must be different.

This dilemma is something if one tries to resolve too definitively, one ends up rejecting who Jesus is. We want black and white answers to everything like the child always asking "why", but there is a point of acceptance by love, trust and faith. I trust my house will keep me safe each day, I do not investigate it constantly and want proof that it is still ok, what I have is enough. Jesus rising from the dead in the context He set is enough for me to declare Him to be God. God bless you[/QUOTE]

excellent question, MEN, or most don't ask these question... "WHY". #1. Jesus is not sitting next to anyone, let us let you in on a seceret... He is Sitting IN, and not ON, but in "POWER, LISTEN and HEAR your ANSWER. scripture, Revelation 3:21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."
BINGO, did you see it? IN Power. not on a chair... but in Power. I know I'm getting ahead of myself, but this is in revealing the millennium year return of the Christ and us ruling with him.... supportive scripture, Luke 19:11 "And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear."Luke 19:12 "He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return."Luke 19:13 "And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come."Luke 19:14 "But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us."Luke 19:15 "And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading."Luke 19:16 "Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds."Luke 19:17 "And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities."Luke 19:18 "And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds."Luke 19:19 "And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities."

I hope you fellas know what the parable is about. but hence the answer, Jesus is in power, and the answer is in what he said, Matthew 28:18 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"Matthew 28:20 "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."

(smile),

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

FollowHim · Oct 14, 2020

101G said:
we suggest you read Post #17

QUOTE="FollowHim, post: 857171, member: 8343"]There are two themes above, Jesus at the right hand of God, and the Lamb on the throne, both God and separate from God the Father.
The right hand is a symbol of favour and power from the one who sits on the throne. John in revelation adds the trinity aspect that Jesus is also God, so on the throne with His Father, except Jesus is not the same as the Father though they are one. If Jesus was identical in all aspects as the Father, He would be the Father, so to be distinct, with limitations, He must be different.

This dilemma is something if one tries to resolve too definitively, one ends up rejecting who Jesus is. We want black and white answers to everything like the child always asking "why", but there is a point of acceptance by love, trust and faith. I trust my house will keep me safe each day, I do not investigate it constantly and want proof that it is still ok, what I have is enough. Jesus rising from the dead in the context He set is enough for me to declare Him to be God. God bless you

excellent question, MEN, or most don't ask these question... "WHY". #1. Jesus is not sitting next to anyone, let us let you in on a seceret... He is Sitting IN, and not ON, but in "POWER, LISTEN and HEAR your ANSWER. scripture, Revelation 3:21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."
BINGO, did you see it? IN Power. not on a chair... but in Power. I know I'm getting ahead of myself, but this is in revealing the millennium year return of the Christ and us ruling with him.... supportive scripture, Luke 19:11 "And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear."Luke 19:12 "He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return."Luke 19:13 "And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come."Luke 19:14 "But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us."Luke 19:15 "And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading."Luke 19:16 "Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds."Luke 19:17 "And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities."Luke 19:18 "And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds."Luke 19:19 "And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities."

I hope you fellas know what the parable is about. but hence the answer, Jesus is in power, and the answer is in what he said, Matthew 28:18 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"Matthew 28:20 "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."

(smile),

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"[/QUOTE]

I am not sure we are disagreeing. A throne is just a chair which symbolises rule and authority.
God is not just spirit, ie everywhere, but has a distinct presence in some locations and not others.

At the end of the book of revelation on the new earth God will dwell with man, which He is not doing at the moment.
The temple of God is His seat or residence. God himself says we will die if we see His face, not just His form.
It is therefore dangerous to say Gods form is irrelevant because He is Spirit, and having a temple and a throne limits Him.

Jesus as a man had to demonstrate Himself to God, even though He was God. It is a weird idea that the eternal has to show its eternal nature to confirm itself, but this shows that the eternal is not founded on being God alone, but on how this effects behaviour. The risk was in terms of creations view, God limiting Himself to human form would prove righteousness was impossible. Jesus admits that this is almost true for man, but God has found a way.

Underlying this there is a perception that all men are born equal with the same motivations and drives. But this is clearly not true, from the insecure and easily upset, to the rule breakers who live for the adrenaline rush. Our view of innocence and guilt is very distorted, and our excuses for hard hearts and not listening are like Adam's in the garden, if they had not done x I would not have done y, so its their fault. Though the effect is from circumstance guilt remains, and the relationship is broken.

Jesus never broke the relationship but rather it grew stronger as He learnt more.

Logos

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