The Eternal Security Heresy: A Comprehensive Refutation of OSAS

Heyzeus · Oct 15, 2020

Taken said:
You are the one "CLAIMING" things are made up...and When you are Scripturally Shown they are NOT made up...
You simply DENY the Scriptural Facts.

I am confidant The Lord is Pleased with Paul's Works, whether or not you are.

Scripture says "Paul went to Arabia" - poster says " Paul was Training under Jesus for 3 years while in Arabia"

Sorry - this is made up nonsense - and pointing this out denies nothing in Scripture- because the poster's utterance is not in Scripture.

You are the one in denial of this - and other Scriptural facts. Would you like a list ?

Is the Lord also pleased with the people who wrote a bunch of stuff - and then put Paul's name to it ? - Is the Lord a big fan of Pious Fraud ?

Sola Fide is a man made doctrine which contradicts the word of Jesus .. so don't think we can fully pin that one on Paul but, Is the Lord Pleased with those who contradict God's Word ?

And is the Lord Pleased with your denial of this Scriptural fact should you prove that Paul preached Sola Fide.

Renniks · Oct 15, 2020

Heyzeus said:
Someone else mentioned the 3 years .. the post you responded to was me responding to that. "Trained by Jesus for 3 years in Arabia".

You also said Paul didn't know Jesus. I disagree.

Renniks · Oct 15, 2020

Ferris Bueller said:
.....and so that means we don't have to keep the set of laws! Since we are not made righteous by laws (justified by law), that means we don't have to obey them! Hallelujah, praise the Lord! That's where the church's thinking is today. But all that will get them is a fast exit to the left to the lake of fire when Jesus comes back. Many will have no works to save them from the lake of fire when Jesus comes back, but they sure will be confessing Christ with their mouth, lol! "But I have faith in you. I was active in my church!", they will say. If you really had faith in Jesus you wouldn't be standing there with no works to show for it.

So, this begs the question: What are "works" to you? Are works being active in sharing the gospel or helping others or are works abiding by a set of rules like not buying gas on Sunday and maybe not wearing certain clothes? When you propose that there's a set of laws we must follow, the logical question is: what laws and where are the listed?

Heyzeus · Oct 15, 2020

Renniks said:
You also said Paul didn't know Jesus. I disagree.

Not only did Paul not know Jesus - spending his time persecuting Christians while Jesus was alive - Paul does not know much about the teachings of Jesus.

How many times does Paul say "Jesus said" - referring to one of the teachings of our Lord ?

This does not mean that some of Paul's words were not inspired But - if I come into conflict in scripture "Paul said this - Jesus said that" and the two don't jive .. 100% I am defaulting to Jesus.

Heyzeus · Oct 15, 2020

Renniks said:
So, this begs the question: What are "works" to you? Are works being active in sharing the gospel or helping others or are works abiding by a set of rules like not buying gas on Sunday and maybe not wearing certain clothes? When you propose that there's a set of laws we must follow, the logical question is: what laws and where are the listed?

Jesus answers this question in his most famous Sermon on the Mount. "Not all that call lord lord will enter heaven - only the one that does the Will of the Father" Matt 7:21.

The "Will of the Father" is what Jesus talks about in his sermon. The 10 Commands - and the Golden Rule - which he restates in numerous ways .. Judge not .. Take log out of own eye .. love neighbor as self .. and so on..

Matt 7:12 Do unto others "This rule Sums up the Law and the Prophets"

..

Taken · Oct 15, 2020

Heyzeus said:
Scripture says "Paul went to Arabia" -

poster says " Paul was Training under Jesus for 3 years while in Arabia"

Click to expand...

Poster says? Where did a poster say what you said?

Sorry - this is made up nonsense -

Click to expand...

Only your words appear and your claim it is made up nonsense.

Taken · Oct 15, 2020

Heyzeus said:
Not only did Paul not know Jesus-

You are in conflict with Jesus' own words.

John 10:
[14] I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

BY your interpretation...the Lord Jesus can only be "KNOWN" by a man who has Met Jesus face to face.

Heyzeus · Oct 15, 2020

Taken said:
You are in conflict with Jesus' own words.

John 10:
[14] I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

BY your interpretation...the Lord Jesus can only be "KNOWN" by a man who has Met Jesus face to face.

Where in the passage above does it say that Paul was one of Jesus's Sheep ? No where.... once again you are making up nonsense.

Further .. this passage does not say anything about the Sheep hearing Jesus words while he was living .. only that Jesus knows who his sheep are.

So a complete fail on both counts. I would like to say "nice try" but I can not .. because it was a horrible attempt at support of claim.

Heyzeus · Oct 15, 2020

Renniks said:
You also said Paul didn't know Jesus. I disagree.

Not while alive he didn't - and Paul tells us almost nothing about the life of Jesus - despite half of the NT being attributed to him.

On what basis do you think that Paul had known Jesus while he was alive ?

Taken · Oct 15, 2020

Heyzeus said:
Where in the passage above does it say that Paul was one of Jesus's Sheep ? No where.... once again you are making up nonsense.

Further .. this passage does not say anything about the Sheep hearing Jesus words while he was living .. only that Jesus knows who his sheep are.

So a complete fail on both counts. I would like to say "nice try" but I can not .. because it was a horrible attempt at support of claim.

Guess you are unfamiliar with Scripture, of WHO ARE Jesus' Sheep.
Paul is an EXAMPLE of one of Jesus' Sheep.

Matt 25:
[32b] a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats...

Acts 11:
[2] As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
[3] And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.
[4] So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.

[9] Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,

You should spend more time verifying, than wrongfully accusing.

Taken · Oct 15, 2020

Heyzeus said:
Not while alive he didn't - and Paul tells us almost nothing about the life of Jesus - despite half of the NT being attributed to him.

On what basis do you think that Paul had known Jesus while he was alive ?

While Jesus "WAS" ALIVE?
Jesus "IS" alive!

Ferris Bueller · Oct 15, 2020

Renniks said:
So, this begs the question: What are "works" to you? Are works being active in sharing the gospel or helping others or are works abiding by a set of rules like not buying gas on Sunday and maybe not wearing certain clothes? When you propose that there's a set of laws we must follow, the logical question is: what laws and where are the listed?

First of all it doesn't mean your service to the Lord. Witnessing, working in your gifts, etc. By themselves they will benefit you nothing as far as being proof you love and have faith in God (Matthew 7:22). We're talking about our personal life of obedience here. Personal holiness. Jesus talks about it in Matthew 5:17 through Matthew 7:27. Read it in it's entirety to see what the works of holiness/righteousness are, and what happens to those who do not do possess this righteousness of life. It's a narrow road that few find. And those who don't find it will be cast away as workers of iniquity. Paul expands on the works of righteousness in Ephesians 4:1-32 through Ephesians 6:9. Also in Colossians 3:5-25 through Colossians 4:1.

For you too, @Taken. You asked a similar question.

Heyzeus · Oct 15, 2020

Taken said:
Guess you are unfamiliar with Scripture, of WHO ARE Jesus' Sheep.
Paul is an EXAMPLE of one of Jesus' Sheep.

Matt 25:
[32b] a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats...

Acts 11:
[2] As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
[3] And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.
[4] So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.

[9] Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,

You should spend more time verifying, than wrongfully accusing.

The passage from Matt does not mention Paul - and I did not claim that Jesus did not know Paul . so why did you post this.
The passage from is not Jesus speaking .. so why did you post this.

Nether passage shows that Paul knew Jesus ?? another complete fail.

Heyzeus · Oct 15, 2020

Taken said:
While Jesus "WAS" ALIVE?
Jesus "IS" alive!

Holy carp - does one need to spell everything out to you like we are in kindergarten ? While he was on Earth in the Flesh ..

Good grief you are desperate

BarneyFife · Oct 15, 2020

Blood Bought 1953 said:
Remember Balaam’s Ass? I thought so.If God can speak out of a donkey , surely He can Speak out of the mouth of a man that he talked personally to on the road to Damascus and set Straight.Peter said that Paul’s writings were to be considered Scripture.......and ALL Scripture is “God Breathed” and “ adequate for Doctrine , Correction, etc.”
Either you don’t know your Bible, or you don’t Believe your Bible......Newbies—- Jesus said that Paul was “ The Deliverer Of the Good News to the Gentiles”.....After the Ascension Of Jesus, His Work being “ Finished” , he handed over the “ Teaching Reins” to Paul......Paul raised a man from the dead....that is enough to prove that he was a man approved by God.....Study hard, Rightly Divide God's Word and show yourself to be a good student of God's Word, so as God warns—- you won’t have to “Stand Ashamed”. Many that post in here should be thoroughly Ashamed , trying to make the case that Paul, “God’s CHOSEN Vessel , should be placed in a corner somewhere.
Nobody is confusing Paul with Jesus —— Jesus PERFORMED “ALL” the necessary Work Of Salvation, Paul was a wicked man, saved purely by the Grace Of God. Jesus “ DID” the Task laid out for Him by His Father.All that Paul Did was EXPLAIN it......God Bless .....

Theological Hobby Horsemanship

You've got some nerve; I'll give you that--declaring that people you don't even know couldn't know their Bible or believe it. Your smug, dismissive attitude betrays the spirit which actuates you. Keep on a' trollin'.

Taken · Oct 15, 2020

Ferris Bueller said:
First of all it doesn't mean your service to the Lord. Witnessing, working in your gifts, etc. By themselves they will benefit you nothing as far as being proof you love and have faith in God (Matthew 7:22). We're talking about our personal life of obedience here. Personal holiness. Jesus talks about it in Matthew 5:17 through Matthew 7:27. Read it in it's entirety to see what the works of holiness/righteousness are, and what happens to those who do not do possess this righteousness of life. It's a narrow road that few find. And those who don't find it will be cast away as workers of iniquity. Paul expands on the works of righteousness in Ephesians 4:1-32 through Ephesians 6:9. Also in Colossians 3:5-25 through Colossians 4:1.

For you too, @Taken. You asked a similar question.

Salvation is NOT obtained BY works.

Works that Glorify God are NOT accomplished, without having Obtained Salvation.

Works that do NOT Glorify God, are burned.

Enough said.

BarneyFife · Oct 15, 2020

Ferris Bueller said:
But it's only because of these crazy teachings that the church has invented.

Blaming it on "the church" is kind of a cop-out, don't you think?

Ferris Bueller said:
If we'd just let Christianity be what it is in the Bible we wouldn't be in this mess.

According to whom, though? There are spiritual psychologies at work in the Bible. Hiding wisdom from the wise, spiritual discernment, etc.

Ferris Bueller said:
Seems like the church got afraid of works and invented all these not so simple theologies to rationalize dead faith.

Unfortunately, pendulums swing to extremes.

Ferris Bueller said:
You don't need a degree to understand the Bible.

Amen to the third power

Ferris Bueller said:
You need a degree to understand man's interpretation of the Bible.

I like you.

BarneyFife · Oct 15, 2020

Taken said:
Salvation is NOT obtained BY works.

Works that Glorify God are NOT accomplished, without having Obtained Salvation.

Works that do NOT Glorify God, are burned.

Enough said.

Then we shouldn't be hearing any more condescending comments from you? Promise?

Taken · Oct 15, 2020

Heyzeus said:
Nether passage shows that Paul knew Jesus ?? another complete fail.

Are you completely ignorant ?
Paul had no need to Know Jesus face to face as a man...anymore that I do.
A person's Relationship with the Lord IS
Spiritual!!!

WHO do you think Paul was conferring WITH in the spirit, in Arabia, for 3 years?

A person without the Holy Spirit....DUH
Can not have a Spiritual relationship with the Lord Gods Spirit!

Sheesh

BarneyFife · Oct 15, 2020

Isn't it telling that there are roughly 750,000 words in the (English) Bible? This is why I find canned theologies suspect.

The Eternal Security Heresy: A Comprehensive Refutation of OSAS

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