The Eternal Security Heresy: A Comprehensive Refutation of OSAS

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ChristisGod

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Scripture says "Paul went to Arabia" - poster says " Paul was Training under Jesus for 3 years while in Arabia"

Sorry - this is made up nonsense - and pointing this out denies nothing in Scripture- because the poster's utterance is not in Scripture.

You are the one in denial of this - and other Scriptural facts. Would you like a list ?

Is the Lord also pleased with the people who wrote a bunch of stuff - and then put Paul's name to it ? - Is the Lord a big fan of Pious Fraud ?

Sola Fide is a man made doctrine which contradicts the word of Jesus .. so don't think we can fully pin that one on Paul but, Is the Lord Pleased with those who contradict God's Word ?

And is the Lord Pleased with your denial of this Scriptural fact should you prove that Paul preached Sola Fide.

“I did not consult any man, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus” (vv. 16–17).

- Galatians 1:11–24
Paul begins Galatians by saying that he was sent by Christ and the Father, and that the other church leaders agreed with him. In Galatians 1:11–2:10, he expands on these two points.

He begins in verses 11 and 12 by saying that the Gospel he preached was not devised by human wisdom, nor had he received it from the other apostles; rather, he was taught it directly by Jesus Christ Himself. He continues by reminding them that he had been trained in and was fanatically devoted to the erroneous traditions of Judaism. When God called Paul on the Damascus road, he was commissioned to preach the Gospel of Christ.

Paul said that when Christ called him, he did not go to Jerusalem to receive instruction from the apostles. Rather, he retired into Arabia for a time and not until three years later did he go to Jerusalem. Even then, the only apostle he met was Peter, and the only other leader he met was James, the presiding elder of the Jerusalem church. It has often been remarked that Paul clearly implied that he spent three years being taught by Jesus Himself (1:12), either directly or (perhaps more likely) through the study of the Word. Thus, like the other apostles, Paul studied with Christ for three years before beginning his ministry (compare Acts 1:21).

Thus, Paul established for the Galatians that he received the Gospel by the same means as the other apostles —directly from Jesus. Fourteen years after his conversion, he had occasion to go to Jerusalem and there he met privately with the leaders, including the apostles Peter and John (2:1–10). He reports to the Galatians that they compared notes and found that there was absolutely no difference between what he had been teaching for eleven years in Antioch and what the apostles had been teaching in Jerusalem, Judea, and Samaria. There never had been a problem, nor was there one currently, between Paul’s message and the teaching of the Jerusalem church.

The point Paul is making to the Galatians is that there has never been any question about the content of the Gospel. The same Christ taught Peter and Paul, and both men were in complete agreement.liogeneer.org

hope this helps !!!
 

Heyzeus

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Are you completely ignorant ?
Paul had no need to Know Jesus face to face as a man...anymore that I do.
A person's Relationship with the Lord IS
Spiritual!!!

WHO do you think Paul was conferring WITH in the spirit, in Arabia, for 3 years?

A person without the Holy Spirit....DUH
Can not have a Spiritual relationship with the Lord Gods Spirit!

Sheesh :eek:

Sure Paul can have a spiritual relationship with Jesus - Just as you and I. This does not mean that we were present with Jesus when he was wandering around the earth in the Flesh..

Further - nowhere in scripture does it say or suggest that Paul was personally tutored by Jesus for 3 years .. and good thing too as
having to spend 3 years educating Paul does not speak well of the mental capacity of Paul -- nor the ability of Jesus as a teacher.

Use that brain that God gave you .. it is not for nothing that you have one.
 

Heyzeus

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“I did not consult any man, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus” (vv. 16–17).

- Galatians 1:11–24
Paul begins Galatians by saying that he was sent by Christ and the Father, and that the other church leaders agreed with him. In Galatians 1:11–2:10, he expands on these two points.

He begins in verses 11 and 12 by saying that the Gospel he preached was not devised by human wisdom, nor had he received it from the other apostles; rather, he was taught it directly by Jesus Christ Himself. He continues by reminding them that he had been trained in and was fanatically devoted to the erroneous traditions of Judaism. When God called Paul on the Damascus road, he was commissioned to preach the Gospel of Christ.

Paul said that when Christ called him, he did not go to Jerusalem to receive instruction from the apostles. Rather, he retired into Arabia for a time and not until three years later did he go to Jerusalem. Even then, the only apostle he met was Peter, and the only other leader he met was James, the presiding elder of the Jerusalem church. It has often been remarked that Paul clearly implied that he spent three years being taught by Jesus Himself (1:12), either directly or (perhaps more likely) through the study of the Word. Thus, like the other apostles, Paul studied with Christ for three years before beginning his ministry (compare Acts 1:21).

Thus, Paul established for the Galatians that he received the Gospel by the same means as the other apostles —directly from Jesus. Fourteen years after his conversion, he had occasion to go to Jerusalem and there he met privately with the leaders, including the apostles Peter and John (2:1–10). He reports to the Galatians that they compared notes and found that there was absolutely no difference between what he had been teaching for eleven years in Antioch and what the apostles had been teaching in Jerusalem, Judea, and Samaria. There never had been a problem, nor was there one currently, between Paul’s message and the teaching of the Jerusalem church.

The point Paul is making to the Galatians is that there has never been any question about the content of the Gospel. The same Christ taught Peter and Paul, and both men were in complete agreement.liogeneer.org

hope this helps !!!

Doesn't help at all mate .. Nowhere in anything you posted is it suggested that Jesus spend 3 years tutoring Paul in Arabia.
 

Taken

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Isn't it telling that there are roughly 750,000 words in the (English) Bible? This is why I find canned theologies suspect.

Theology-
-the study of the nature of God and religious belief.

Study about God, yea!
Study about religious beliefs...sounds more like Pyschologists analyzing Philosophers...that Change with every generation.
 
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ChristisGod

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Doesn't help at all mate .. Nowhere in anything you posted is it suggested that Jesus spend 3 years tutoring Paul in Arabia.
are you denying that Paul was directly taught by Jesus regardless of it being a day, week, month or years ?
 

farouk

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Good verses:

"Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake." (1 Thessalonians 1.4-5)
 
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Taken

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Sure Paul can have a spiritual relationship with Jesus - Just as you and I. This does not mean that we were present with Jesus when he was wandering around the earth in the Flesh..

Further - nowhere in scripture does it say or suggest that Paul was personally tutored by Jesus for 3 years .. and good thing too as
having to spend 3 years educating Paul does not speak well of the mental capacity of Paul -- nor the ability of Jesus as a teacher.

Use that brain that God gave you .. it is not for nothing that you have one.

Your suggestion to understand Scripture according HOW you do, with your Brain...
Is in Complete Opposition TO Scripture, and WHY it is so easy for me to disagree with You.

Rom 8:
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God:
 

Heyzeus

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are you denying that Paul was directly taught by Jesus regardless of it being a day, week, month or years ?

Paul had a vision - how much teaching he got from this vision we don't know .. but it was clearly not much as Paul does not know about the teachings of Jesus ..

We have no sayings from Paul "Jesus said this - Jesus said that" .. surely if Paul was tutored for 3 years by Jesus he would no something about the teachings of Jesus .. but he knows very little.

The claim that Paul was tutored directly by Jesus for 3 years makes no sense in light of what Paul wrote. Not that Paul needed to state directly "Jesus taught me for 3 years" but at minimum he would need to how some of the fruits of this teaching .. and we have almost none of this from Paul.

When we go to the disciples -- Mark - being from Peter .. Matt using all of Mark but also adding some things which may have been from Matt - we have all kinds of information on Jesus .. what he did .. what he said .. his teachings and so on.

So in the case where the teachings of Paul are at odds with the teachings of Jesus .. I will default to the teachings of Jesus - unlike so many who seem to want to run from the teachings of Jesus any time there is a conflict with the teachings of Paul
 

Heyzeus

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Your suggestion to understand Scripture according HOW you do, with your Brain...
Is in Complete Opposition TO Scripture, and WHY it is so easy for me to disagree with You.

Rom 8:
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God:

What a pile of nonsensical gibberish coupled with a veiled accusation.

This however explains why you are so unable to comprehend the teachings of Jesus .. This is what one would expect from someone that refuses to use their brain.
 

Renniks

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Not only did Paul not know Jesus - spending his time persecuting Christians while Jesus was alive - Paul does not know much about the teachings of Jesus.

How many times does Paul say "Jesus said" - referring to one of the teachings of our Lord ?

This does not mean that some of Paul's words were not inspired But - if I come into conflict in scripture "Paul said this - Jesus said that" and the two don't jive .. 100% I am defaulting to Jesus.
So, only some scripture is inspired? Only the portions you agree with perhaps?
 

Taken

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What a pile of nonsensical gibberish coupled with a veiled accusation.

This however explains why you are so unable to comprehend the teachings of Jesus .. This is what one would expect from someone that refuses to use their brain.

Still can't quote me Denying Scripture...
Still making false accusations.

Tsk Tsk
 

Renniks

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Jesus answers this question in his most famous Sermon on the Mount. "Not all that call lord lord will enter heaven - only the one that does the Will of the Father" Matt 7:21.

The "Will of the Father" is what Jesus talks about in his sermon. The 10 Commands - and the Golden Rule - which he restates in numerous ways .. Judge not .. Take log out of own eye .. love neighbor as self .. and so on..

Matt 7:12 Do unto others "This rule Sums up the Law and the Prophets"

..
So you believe it's possible to be perfect, just like Jesus? Or did Jesus say you must be perfect in order to show us that we can not reach heaven by merely doing the right things?
 

Heyzeus

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Still can't quote me Denying Scripture...
Still making false accusations.

Tsk Tsk

You have been stumping for sola fide

"Saved Once and Forever- by Gods Power- Expressly Sufficient for me"

Then when corrected via my posting of the teachings of Jesus .. you state "my position has not changed"

So disingenuous and full of deception you are.
 

ChristisGod

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Paul had a vision - how much teaching he got from this vision we don't know .. but it was clearly not much as Paul does not know about the teachings of Jesus ..

We have no sayings from Paul "Jesus said this - Jesus said that" .. surely if Paul was tutored for 3 years by Jesus he would no something about the teachings of Jesus .. but he knows very little.

The claim that Paul was tutored directly by Jesus for 3 years makes no sense in light of what Paul wrote. Not that Paul needed to state directly "Jesus taught me for 3 years" but at minimum he would need to how some of the fruits of this teaching .. and we have almost none of this from Paul.

When we go to the disciples -- Mark - being from Peter .. Matt using all of Mark but also adding some things which may have been from Matt - we have all kinds of information on Jesus .. what he did .. what he said .. his teachings and so on.

So in the case where the teachings of Paul are at odds with the teachings of Jesus .. I will default to the teachings of Jesus - unlike so many who seem to want to run from the teachings of Jesus any time there is a conflict with the teachings of Paul
Nothing Paul said or taught is at "odds" with Jesus or the rest of the Apostles.

you made that up since nothing in Scripture states otherwise.
 

Renniks

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Not while alive he didn't - and Paul tells us almost nothing about the life of Jesus - despite half of the NT being attributed to him.

On what basis do you think that Paul had known Jesus while he was alive ?
I said nothing about him physically meeting Jesus. If that's the only way to know Jesus, we are all doomed.
 

Heyzeus

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So, only some scripture is inspired? Only the portions you agree with perhaps?

The majority of Christianity does not believe that every word in Scripture is the Literal word of God - and for good reason :)

I view the teachings of Jesus as inspired .. the teachings of those which conflict with the teachings of Jesus .. not so much.

How about you ?
 

Heyzeus

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Nothing Paul said or taught is at "odds" with Jesus or the rest of the Apostles.

you made that up since nothing in Scripture states otherwise.

Of course Sola Fide is at odds with the teachings of Jesus .. hence why the majority of Christianity rejects this doctrine.
Further .. I have stated previously that this may not show that Paul was on conflict with the teachings of Jesus but a misinterpretation of Gods word by folks such as yourself.

Paul himself conflicts with Sola Fide.

What does this have to do with Paul supposedly being tutored in the desert for 3 years .. or did you forget what we were discussing ?

Why does Paul know almost nothing of the words of Jesus .. why does not regularly say .. Jesus said this .. Jesus said that .. if he was tutored for 3 years..

Or do you think that Paul was just a terrible student ?
 

Renniks

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First of all it doesn't mean your service to the Lord. Witnessing, working in your gifts, etc. By themselves they will benefit you nothing as far as being proof you love and have faith in God (Matthew 7:22). We're talking about our personal life of obedience here. Personal holiness. Jesus talks about it in Matthew 5:17 through Matthew 7:27. Read it in it's entirety to see what the works of holiness/righteousness are, and what happens to those who do not do possess this righteousness of life. It's a narrow road that few find. And those who don't find it will be cast away as workers of iniquity. Paul expands on the works of righteousness in Ephesians 4:1-32 through Ephesians 6:9. Also in Colossians 3:5-25 through Colossians 4:1.

For you too, @Taken. You asked a similar question.
All of these deeds are summed up in Jesus saying love your neighbor. But no one does that perfectly. I know. I've been to " holiness" churches a lot.
 
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Taken

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The majority of Christianity does not believe that every word in Scripture is the Literal word of God - and for good reason :)

That's funny.
The Scriptures are FULL of people speaking "THEIR OWN words"...
 
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