Nancy
Well-Known Member
Lol...good to knowIt isn't actually off topic from the title, because one of those church ages, Sardis, is where the false doctrine regarding "cover" started!
The False Doctrine with key word "COVER"
- Thread starter CharismaticLady
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Hope you have a chance to find it for me.
'Now we know that what things soever the law saith,
it saith to them who are under the law:
that every mouth may be stopped,
and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight :
for by the law is the knowledge of sin.'
(Romans 3:19-20)
Hello @justbyfaith,
Verse 19 (above) tells us to whom the law speaks. The chapters preceding this also differentiate between those who are under the law and those who have never been so. Heading up to the fact declared in Romans 3:21-24, that ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
* I believe a reading of Romans 2:12-29 will reveal who was under the law, and who was not, among Paul's readers in the assembly in Rome.
* Gentiles were not under the law given by God to Israel as part of the Old Covenant: but they had, like all men, the law of conscience, by which they governed their actions:-
'(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law,
these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts,
their conscience also bearing witness,
and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another )'
(Romans 2:13-15)
* No, it is clear from Romans 2:23 that ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
* Romans 3:10-18 I agree does not refer to the believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. The believer in Christ is indeed a new creature.
Praise God!
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
it saith to them who are under the law:
that every mouth may be stopped,
and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight :
for by the law is the knowledge of sin.'
(Romans 3:19-20)
Hello @justbyfaith,
Verse 19 (above) tells us to whom the law speaks. The chapters preceding this also differentiate between those who are under the law and those who have never been so. Heading up to the fact declared in Romans 3:21-24, that ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
* Gentiles were not under the law given by God to Israel as part of the Old Covenant: but they had, like all men, the law of conscience, by which they governed their actions:-
'(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law,
these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts,
their conscience also bearing witness,
and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another )'
(Romans 2:13-15)
* Romans 3:10-18 I agree does not refer to the believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. The believer in Christ is indeed a new creature.
Praise God!
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Last edited:
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Dont make excuse for you failures . Get up and do something about it .
SEE that is the PROBLEM with this generation . INSTEAD Of repenting of thier evil or lack of doing good , THEY Just
make excuse and accuse others who would warn them and remind them .
Now let me leave us with even pauls words . THOSE who name the name of JESUS , DEPART from inquity .
Or in another letter, LET IT NOT be once named among you . That was pauls appraoch to sin and error .
I DONT SEE IT TODAY . YOu are failing the people big time and you WILL be HELD accountable ON the DAY of the LORD .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Nancy
Well-Known Member
"He had sent (John 6:29). Only unbelief could draw forth such a condemnation."
Hi Chris,
I enjoyed your post.
How would you compare these 2 verses:
"Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men."
Matthew 12:31
"16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death."
1 John 5:16-17
In Him,
Nancy
✝'But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly,
his faith is counted (ie., imputed) for righteousness.
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man,
unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.'
(Romans 4:5-8)
'He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
And being fully persuaded that, what He had promised, He was able also to perform.
And therefore it was imputed to Him for righteousness.
Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on Him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.'
(Romans 4:20-25)
'Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law,
shall not his uncircumcision be counted (ie., imputed) for circumcision?
(Romans 2:26)
'For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God,
and it was counted (ie., imputed) unto him for righteousness.'
'That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:
but the children of the promise are counted (ie., imputed) for the seed.'
(Romans 9:8)
* I forgot to include the word, 'counted' along with to 'reckon' or to 'attribute' as a meaning for the word, 'impute' or 'imputed,' in my earlier post.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
his faith is counted (ie., imputed) for righteousness.
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man,
unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.'
(Romans 4:5-8)
'He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
And being fully persuaded that, what He had promised, He was able also to perform.
And therefore it was imputed to Him for righteousness.
Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on Him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.'
(Romans 4:20-25)
'Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law,
shall not his uncircumcision be counted (ie., imputed) for circumcision?
(Romans 2:26)
'For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God,
and it was counted (ie., imputed) unto him for righteousness.'
'That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:
but the children of the promise are counted (ie., imputed) for the seed.'
(Romans 9:8)
* I forgot to include the word, 'counted' along with to 'reckon' or to 'attribute' as a meaning for the word, 'impute' or 'imputed,' in my earlier post.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Do you agree that Romans 3:10-18 does refer also to the Gentile?
If it does, then the Gentile is also under the law, although, I will agree with you, he was not give the law as a specific requirement.
(Because it is those who are under the law that Romans 3:10-18 applies (verse 19)).
Nevertheless the law defines sin for all of us (Romans 3:20, 1 John 3:4).
And therefore all, whether Jew or Gentile, will be judged by the law as to whether or not they sinned (of course we know that all have sinned and come short of the glory of the Lord; but the law will be the plumb line by which specific sins will be judged as having been sinful).
We do indeed have righteousness imputed to us.
To this I would only bring your attention to Ezekiel 33:13...
Eze 33:13, When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
re #789.
@charity.
To this I would only bring your attention to Ezekiel 33:13...
Eze 33:13, When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
re #789.
@charity.
Hi Nancy,"He had sent (John 6:29). Only unbelief could draw forth such a condemnation."
Hi Chris,
I enjoyed your post.
How would you compare these 2 verses:
"Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men."
Matthew 12:31
"16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death."
1 John 5:16-17
In Him,
Nancy
You ask me to compare Matthew 12:31 & 1 John 5:16-17. Yes, I agree that these are difficult passages.
'Wherefore I say unto you,
All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men:
but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.'
(Mat 12:31 & Luke 12:8-10)
All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men:
but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.'
(Mat 12:31 & Luke 12:8-10)
* The Pharisees were guilty of this sin, in verse 24, when they said of our Lord, 'This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.' Thereby attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to a demon called 'Baalzebub' (mentioned in 2 kings 1:2) it is described as the prince of idols and idolatry, the worst and chief of all wickedness - how horrible that is, especially when attributed to the Holy Spirit of God.
* This subject of the unforgiveable sin is dealt with in Matthew 12:30-32 and Luke 12:8-10: I do not believe that it is possible for anyone, other than those who heard the Lord Jesus Christ and who saw what He did, to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit in the way described in Matthew 12 or Luke 12. I do not believe that the privileged situation they were in, as witnesses to the works of God by the hand of the Son of God has ever been repeated. So I do not believe it is possible for anyone to commit the unforgivable sin today.
'If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death,
he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death.
There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.'
(1 John 5:16-17)
he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death.
There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.'
(1 John 5:16-17)
* John writes of two types of sin; once which led to death and the other which did not. He encouraged his readers to pray for those who committed the latter, but discouraged them praying for those who committed the former.
* What was this sin, or these sins, which led to death? Is the situation the same today?
* John shared in the ministry of Peter (1 Peter 1:1) and James (James 1:1) described in (Galatians 2:7-9) to the circumcision.
* During the book of Acts we read of those like Ananias and Sapphira who died as a consequence of lying to the Holy Spirit(Acts 5:1-10), in 1 Corinthians 11:27-30 warning is given not to eat of the Lord's supper unworthily as illustrated in v.21, for sickness and death could be the result, this was written in the Jewish section of the epistle, which makes sense because they were the ones to whom the New Covenant was promised (1 Corinthians 11:25 and Jeremiah 31:31-34). For Jewish Christians to abuse the cup which symbolized the blood of this new covenant was serious.
* During the Acts period the Jew was still subject to the law of Moses, even those who had come to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (see Acts 21:20-26, esp.v.20), 'And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:' In the law blessing accompanied obedience and judgment for disobedience (see Deuteronomy 28:1-2, 15, 22). Ananias and Sapphira were both Jewish Christians. Elymas the sorcerer was a Jew, and he was struck with blindness.
*There is no record in the New Testament of believing Gentiles suffering direct judgment from the hand of God because of sins they may have committed. Such judgments fell upon the Jews as part of the promises of Deuteronomy 28.
* Once Israel as a nation lost their primary place and special privileges at the end of the Acts period, promises such as those of blessings and judgments ceased. The Gentiles came to the fore as the salvation of God was sent to them (Acts 28:26-28).
* The age in which we now live is the age of grace, which commenced at the end of Acts. Grace has always been seen on earth, from Adam's time onwards. However, grace had not characterized an age before as there had often been judgments, some monumental like the flood. God has not directly judged anyone on earth throughout this time. So, there is no 'sin that leads to death' in this dispensation.
* Many Christians commit sins and suffer nothing physically from doing so. However, such behaviour has a detrimental effect on their Christian lives and grieves the Holy Spirit of God with whom they are sealed (Ephesians 4:30). We may not be subject to direct judgment for our sins in this age of grace in which we live, but this does not mean that they are any less serious in the sight of God. To use grace as an excuse for sinning is just not possible, as Paul makes clear in Romans 6:1-2.
* When we believed in the Lord Jesus we were given a new nature. We were identified with Christ in His death, in His burial and in his resurrection, and we were sealed with the Holy Spirit. Our responsibility as believers is to endeavor to live in a way appropriate to all that God has done for us in Christ and to the position in which God has placed us in Christ. We should behave in a way that is worthy of our calling.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
* Ref made to: '40 Problem Passages' by Michael Penny (The Open Bible Trust)
Last edited:
It would be unpardonable to attribute the convicting and drawing work of the Holy Ghost to the devil.
In doing so, one would be permanently rejecting the work that the Holy Spirit was trying to do in bringing them to Christ in order that they might be saved.
Thus, the unpardonable sin is to permanently reject Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord.
In doing so, one would be permanently rejecting the work that the Holy Spirit was trying to do in bringing them to Christ in order that they might be saved.
Thus, the unpardonable sin is to permanently reject Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord.
18 But it is good to be zealous in a good thing always, and not only when I am present with you.
This reminds me of what pleases God.
I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.
Do you know what these mean?
Hello @justbyfaith,
You ask me if I agree that Romans 3:10-18 refers also to the Gentile?
**This is a quotation taken from several parts of the Old Testament, which in itself indicates to which People this was directed. All refer to the same subject, which is the power and righteousness of God revealed. This section, Romans 3:1-26, makes the case for the Jew in this argument of Paul. He had already proved that both Jews and Gentiles were all under sin (v.9). Romans 3:10-18 refer to both Jew and Gentile alike. Now let's look at v.19:-
Now we know that what things soever the law saith,
it saith to them who are under the law:
that every mouth may be stopped,
and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight:
for by the law is the knowledge of sin.'
(Rom 3:19)
* Those under law were of the nation of Israel; for to them it was given.
* In this early part of Romans, every mouth is stopped: the unbelieving Gentile because they had the witness of the works of God in creation, which reflected His eternal power and Godhead, so that they were without excuse (Romans 1:19-20). The Jew, because they had the very oracles of God, the Holy Scriptures which should have made them wise unto salvation, and they had the promises of God, all within the law and the prophets, so they also were guilty before God if they had evil hearts of unbelief. So, by the deeds of the law could no flesh be justified in His sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. It only served to prove them to be guilty before God.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
** These quotations are very revealing:-
Romans 3:10-12 (quoted from) - [Ecclesiastes 7:20; Psalms 14:2-3; Psalms 53:2-4]
Romans 3:13-18 (quoted from) - [Psalms 5:9-10; Psalms 140:3; Psalms 10:7; Isaiah 59:7-8]
Last edited:
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Hi Chris,
" I do not believe that it is possible for anyone, other than those who heard the Lord Jesus Christ..."
This is something I have never thought of. And, I believe you are correct. It was situational, during a certain time period dealing with the hard hearted Pharisees.
I can only imagine if this were not the age of grace, how many would fall dead.
"We may not be subject to direct judgment for our sins in this age of grace in which we live, but this does not mean that they are any less serious in the sight of God. To use grace as an excuse for sinning is just not possible, as Paul makes clear in Romans 6:1-2."
It is so hard to imagine anyone calling themselves by the Name of Christ could even think of abusing His grace...but it does happen, thanks to a slew of erroneous "teachers", with Satan spurring them on.
Thank you for the new thoughts to mull over
your just a tad BIT OFF on your Bible we will sin we will need 1john 1:9 to be honest your just about the same as promoting eternal security. only they teach you are to repent
{jesus gives you His powerful sinless Spirit to change your desires. That is what becoming born again is all about. He makes you partakers of the divine nature. } have you ever got angry have you ever got angry to the point of bad thoughts? have you ever said a word that is not nice out of anger? be ye angry and sin not
In Romans 3:19, it is clear that Paul is saying that those whom Paul was speaking of in Romans 3:10-18 are those who are under the law.
Therefore, if Romans 3:10-18 applies to the Gentile as well as the Jew, it should be evident that Gentiles also, are under the law.
For they will be accounted as guilty before the Lord because of the law (Romans 3:19-20).
Because sin is defined by the law (Romans 3:20, 1 John 3:4).
Similar threads
