If Baptism could save then there is no need for the shed Blood of Jesus.
- Thread starter GISMYS_7
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
I find it interesting that the same people who will tell you that you can be saved apart from water baptism, are the people who will tell you that committing sin is inevitable even as a believer in Christ.
I wonder if they do not believe in deliverance from sin because they only think that they are saved?
Because if they were saved, they would be saved from their sins (Matthew 1:21, 1 John 3:9, 1 John 3:6).
But these, who have not been baptized in Jesus' Name, have also not received the remission of sins and have not received the Holy Ghost, who gives us the power to have victory over sin.
If they had been baptized in Jesus' Name then they would have had remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost and would not be purporting that sinning is inevitable in the Christian's life. Because they, personally, would have victory over sin and therefore they would know that sinning is not inevitable but that a man can walk in freedom from (John 8:31-36) and victory over (1 Corinthians 15:57) sin.
I wonder if they do not believe in deliverance from sin because they only think that they are saved?
Because if they were saved, they would be saved from their sins (Matthew 1:21, 1 John 3:9, 1 John 3:6).
But these, who have not been baptized in Jesus' Name, have also not received the remission of sins and have not received the Holy Ghost, who gives us the power to have victory over sin.
If they had been baptized in Jesus' Name then they would have had remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost and would not be purporting that sinning is inevitable in the Christian's life. Because they, personally, would have victory over sin and therefore they would know that sinning is not inevitable but that a man can walk in freedom from (John 8:31-36) and victory over (1 Corinthians 15:57) sin.
ALL mankind sin and fall short of the glory of God ==so confess and repent and God will forgive and wash you clean.
It is my understanding that water baptism represents dying to self, aka ongoing sanctification or following Jesus to the cross, the grave, and to glory. Shalom.
1Co_15:1-4 Paul did not make water baptism a part of his gospel message and went so far as to say that Christ did not send him to baptize but only to spread the gospel message. 1Co_1:17 This would seem to be a major oversight if water baptism were indeed necessary as no one would have been saved.
Scripture has numerous texts that say forgiveness of sins is by faith alone Joh_1:12; Joh_3:16; Joh_3:36; Joh_6:47; Rom_10:9; Eph_1:13; Eph_2:8-9 to list just a few. Peter also gave us some of the clearest verses in this regard later in Acts Act_5:31; Act_10:43; Act_13:38-39; Act_16:31; Act_26:18. The weight of scripture points to faith being the only requirement for salvation. If you still insist that baptism is a requirement then how do you account for the experience of the gentiles in Act 10:44-48?
1 Peter 3:21 clearly makes the point that baptism does not save us. Notice the apostle Peter refers to baptism and then says, “not the removal of dirt from the flesh.” He is not referring to water baptism. Baptism has a symbolic meaning of repentance—”good conscience.”
Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you — not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience — through the resurrection of Jesus Christ . . . 1 Peter 3:21 (NASB)
The message of the verse is that forgiveness of sins is through Jesus Christ and not water baptism—”not the removal of dirt from the flesh.”
Romans 6:4-7 gives us the symbolic meaning of baptism.
Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin. Romans 6:4-7 (NASB)
Baptism symbolizes our death and burial with Christ and then being resurrected to new life in Christ. Baptism symbolizes a person dying to sin and living unto righteousness (Romans 6:7, 18).
It would be impossible to include every doctrine in every passage because there is limited space to bring forth every doctrine. Therefore an argument from silence is invalid.
While baptism does not remove the filth of the flesh, it does wash away sins (Acts of the Apostles 22:16).
And that 1 Peter 3:21 is speaking of water baptism is evident in the previous verse which says that Noah and his family were "saved by water" and in the verse itself that says that this is a symbol of baptism.
None of those posts say we are saved by faith alone. As I'm sure you already know the only scripture that connects faith to alone is where James says we are NOT saved by faith alone (James 2:24)
Last edited:
Peter very clearly says that baptism saves us.
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (KJV)
Baptism, which corresponds to this now saves you (RSV)
baptism, which this prefigured, now saves you (NRSV)
This prefigured baptism, which saves you now.(NAB)
And this water symbolises baptism that now saves you (NIV)
also to which an antitype doth now save us—baptism (YLT)
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you (HCSB)
which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism (ASV)
Baptism, which is like that water, now saves you (GWT)
There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (NKJV)
That was a type of the baptism that now saves you (CCB)
Baptism, which is symbolized by that water, now saves you also (ISVNT)
The rest of 1Pet 3:21 explains in what way baptism saves us. To deny that baptism saves us is a clear denial of scripture.
Yes baptism is symbolic. It symbolises what Jesus is doing for us. But what he does for us happens in baptism.
When we come to Jesus in baptism he forgives our sins, we are renewed by the Holy Spirit, we come into the New Covenant and members Christ's body, the Church. We are dying to our old life and rising to a new one.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
For by grace we "have been" (past tense with ongoing present results) saved through faith.. (Ephesians 2:8) Believers are saved now and have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification) and will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)
Romans 3:25 - (AMPC) Whom God put forward [before the eyes of all] as a mercy seat and propitiation by His blood [the cleansing and life-giving sacrifice of atonement and reconciliation, to be received] through faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in His divine forbearance He had passed over and ignored former sins without punishment. The AMP Bible reads - ..because in His forbearance [His deliberate restraint] He passed over the sins previously committed [before Jesus’ crucifixion]. So forgiveness of sins is not merely limited to past sins, but future sins as well. Acts 13:39 - and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses. 1 John 1:7 - But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
I don't argue with the scriptures, but only with people who twist the scriptures.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
I could have quoted numerous scriptures, but Romans 3:24-28 was sufficient to make my point. Acts 2:38 is obviously your pet verse from Acts, as it typically is with Campbellites and Roman Catholics, but you are missing the big picture.
Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.
Acts 4:4 - However, many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand.
Acts 5:14 - And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women.
Acts 10:43 - To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.
Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?” 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life.”
Acts 13:39 - and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Acts 15:7 - And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Acts 16:30 - And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.
So much for salvation by the work of water baptism. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..)
@mailmandan Important verses there! and Hebrews 11, which keeps saying 'by faith, 'by faith', 'by faith', over and over, doesn't mention baptism, either...and nor does John 3.16...
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Amen! There are numerous verses in scripture that clearly teach man is saved through believing/faith in Christ "apart from additions or modifications." (Luke 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 15:9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5-6; 5:1; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; 3:6-9, 26; Ephesians 2:8.9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:39; 1 John 5:13 etc..). Those who teach salvation by water baptism/salvation by works just cannot seem to grasp this and there is a reason for that.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
There are numerous passages of scripture that teach man is saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." See post #58. *Now you don't need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in each of these passages of scripture above in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Do these many passages of scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus works? NO. So then it's belief/faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE.
In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.
When James says faith "alone" he is talking about an empty profession of faith/dead faith (James 2:14) which remains alone - "barren of works." Not to be confused with faith that trusts in Christ alone for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)
Last edited:
Similar threads
