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Taken

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Tell 'em and Scripturally show 'em...
Not my job to understand it FOR them.
 

Butch5

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Homer Ga.
I said SOME did not understand...like you, who reads what I say, but do NOT understand....who reads OT Scripture and DOES NOT understand more NT Knowledge.



Yes I say the Same thing -and it is the Same according to Scripture.



How many Times have you Read Gen 7: 2 that says INTO his nostrils and you can not yet Comprehend ... What INTO means...and "his nostrils " is a part of the man's Formed Body of Dust?

Translation, when a passage from the OT fits what you believe the men knew and when it doesn't they didn't know, right? That's a logical fallacy known as Cherry Picking.

What did God breathe into the man? It wasn't a soul. It was His breath or spirit. Those two together BECAME a living soul

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.1 (Gen. 2:7 KJV)

The breath or spirit of life. He didn't breath a soul into man. Man BECAME a living soul. Dude, read the words on the page.

There is no such thing as spiritual death, so no need to go there.

That the Scriptures use soul concretely of a living being and abstractly as life is not an opinion. It is fact. Do some research.

3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.
5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. (Gen. 9:3-5 KJV)


Red = Nephesh, Soul
In this passage the word that is translated "life" is the word Nephesh, Soul. The passage says the soul is the blood. Would you suggest that the blood of man lives on after death? How is the soul immaterial when the blood is physical? Verse 5 says the blood of your nepesh. Does something immaterial have blood? Are we to expect some immaterial thing exists and we see blood flowing but can't see the thing the blood is flowing through? Of course not. The translators translated the word for soul, Nephesh as life as the passage indicates. Life is an abstract thing. You can't touch life, you can't see it or hear it, etc. Something that is concrete is tangible. a rock, a tree, a person, these are all concrete. They are tangible.

For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. (Lev. 17:11 KJV)

Here, the translators translated Nephesh with two different words. Each of the bolded words is Nephesh. Once they translated it life and the other two times they translated it soul. This is why people don't know what soul means. They use different words to translated it. They should have just translated it soul each time. However, again, notice the passage says the soul is in the blood. Would you submit that a living existence lives in blood?

And whatsoever man there be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, which hunteth and catcheth any beast or fowl that may be eaten; he shall even pour out the blood thereof, and cover it with dust.1
14 For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off. (Lev. 17:13-14 KJV)

Here again, the blood is the Nephesh, life, soul, of all flesh. For the Nephesh, Soul, of all flesh is the blood thereof. The soul is not some immortal thing that lives on after death. It is life. It is a living being. When one dies they no longer have life, they no longer are a living being. They are no longer a soul.

Souls can die.

And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea. (Rev. 16:3 KJV)

Jesus soul died.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. (Isa. 53:12 KJV)


God said that soul that sins shall die.

4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. (Ezek. 18:4 KJV)

This verse proves the idea of eternal torment is not Biblical. God said the soul that sins shall die, not suffer eternal torment.

Here, even the translators disagree with you. They call the body a soul.

13 Whosoever toucheth the dead body of any man that is dead, and purifieth not himself, defileth the tabernacle of the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from Israel: because the water of separation was not sprinkled upon him, he shall be unclean; his uncleanness is yet upon him. (Num. 19:13 KJV)

The word translated "body" is Nephesh, soul. So, even the translators know that the soul is the body.

The evidence that a soul requires a body is overwhelming. However, we need for you to establish your premise. Please tell us where the Bible teaches that there is a living soul put into a man and that this living soul continues on after death.

You haven't mentioned Greek Philosophy by name. However, the ideas you espouse come from Greek Philosophy, not Scripture. Dualism is the idea that man is more than a physical living being. That there is some part of man that lives on after death. These are the ideas you are espousing. The Greeks believed that man was a spirit trapped in a flesh body. They believed that the goal of man was to escape the body and ascend into the heavens to the ultimate God. Sound familiar? It's not what the Scriptures teach. They teach that man is dust, that he is animated by the breath or spirit of God and that when he dies that breath or spirit returns to God and the man returns to the dust. God told Adam, 'you are dust'

In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. (Gen. 3:19 KJV)

'For dust you are and to dust you shall return'. He didn't say for dust your body is. He said for dust you are. He didn't say Adam would ascend into the heavens when he died. He said Adam would return to dust.
 

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Taken

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Translation,

No.
You are not qualified to translate what I say.

Cherrypicking

Cherry picking according to man's understanding, is a negative connotation intended.

Doesn't matter if I am Approved, BY YOU!

I am not ashamed by your negative attempts, because I have studied beyond the OT, and shown myself Approved According To God, and KNOW the Flesh Body and Living Soul, are TWO Different things OF the Same ONE Man.

2 Tim 2:
[15] Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

What did God breathe into the man? It wasn't a soul. It was His breath or spirit. Those two together BECAME a living soul

Clearly, you question yourself...Saying:

His Breath OR Spirit

You do not Know the Difference.
Avoid the shame.
Study, and show yourself Approved to God.

There is no such thing as spiritual death, so no need to go there.

God is Spirit. Any man Separated from God, even if his mortal body IS Alive, that man: "IS Spiritually Dead."

Souls can die.

Souls CAN and DO experience Spiritual Death.
But then, you just proved, you do not KNOW the Difference Between a Physical Death and Spiritual Death.

Jesus soul died.

Eh....ERROR...
Jesus' Body Died.
Jesus' Soul Did NOT Die.
Jesus' Soul was Never Separated From God!

[
QUOTE] word translated "body" is Nephesh, soul. So, even the translators know that the soul is the body. [/QUOTE]

•I am confidant A Child could read;

1 Thes 5:
[23] ...your whole spirit and soul and body. [/B]

And comprehend the WHOLE "OF" ONE Man, is Three DIFFERENT Things, called:
Body
and
Soul
and
Spirit

The evidence that a soul requires a body is overwhelming.

You giving A False TRUTH keeps you From the Factual Scriptural Truth.

•A Soul does NOT require a Body.
•A Soul That IS Living, requires Gods Breath in the Soul.
• It is the BODY, that requires A Living soul, for the Body to Begin ITS Blood LIFE.

There is a Reason Scripture teaches...to Study Scripture, AS a Child, be freshly Filled with the Word of God... rather than with what Fallacies of men's interpretations you have filled yourself with.

You preach AS IF your Bible Ended at the OT, and you Discovered Nothing in Addition to what OT men knew.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Butch5

Butch5
Oct 24, 2009
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No.
You are not qualified to translate what I say.



Cherry picking according to man's understanding, is a negative connotation intended.

Doesn't matter if I am Approved, BY YOU!

I am not ashamed by your negative attempts, because I have studied beyond the OT, and shown myself Approved According To God, and KNOW the Flesh Body and Living Soul, are TWO Different things OF the Same ONE Man.

2 Tim 2:
[15] Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Well, you're clearly not rightly dividing the word, because the word says the man, which you agreed was the body, became a living soul.
"Cherry picking according to man's understanding"? Dude, your understanding is man's understanding. You, like everyone else, reads the Scriptures and interprets them. That means your understanding is man's understanding.

Again, the Scriptures are clear that the body and the soul are the same. No body, no soul. I mean, I gave you Scripture that explicitly states the soul is the blood. Blood is a physical thing. It's not some immaterial thing.



Clearly, you question yourself...Saying:



You do not Know the Difference.
Avoid the shame.
Study, and show yourself Approved to God.

No, I don't question myself. I'm simply giving additional information. The English words breath and spirit are translated from the same Greek and Hebrew word. In Gen 2:7 the word is Neshemah and it is translated both breath and spirit. If you stopped arguing with me and investigated what I say you'd see that.

What you see in English is translators making a determination of what the writers meant rather than translating the word the same so people can see what they really mean.



God is Spirit. Any man Separated from God, even if his mortal body IS Alive, that man: "IS Spiritually Dead."

There is no such thing as spiritual death. You won't find that phrase anywhere in Scripture.



Souls CAN and DO experience Spiritual Death.
But then, you just proved, you do not KNOW the Difference Between a Physical Death and Spiritual Death.

Again, there is no such thing as spiritual death.


Eh....ERROR...
Jesus' Body Died.
Jesus' Soul Did NOT Die.
Jesus' Soul was Never Separated From God!

It's not me that is in error. I gave you Scripture but I can only assume you don't believe it. Isaiah states it plainly.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. (Isa. 53:11-12 KJV)

How can you say you rightly divide the word when you refuse to acknowledge that Christ poured out His soul unto death? Clearly His soul died.




•I am confidant A Child could read;

1 Thes 5:
[23] ...your whole spirit and soul and body. [/B]

And comprehend the WHOLE "OF" ONE Man, is Three DIFFERENT Things, called:
Body
and
Soul
and
Spirit


But, you just ignored what I posted. Do you only accept certain passages of Scripture?

I'm sure they could read it. However, reading it and understanding it are two different things. The phrase does describe the whole of a man, his body, the spirit of life, and his life. If you take notice this passage is just like Gen 2:7, the body (man), the breath or spirit of life (of God), and the soul, (the living being).



You giving A False TRUTH keeps you From the Factual Scriptural Truth.

False TRUTH? I think it's pretty clear that what I've posted is stated plainly in Scripture. If anyone has a false truth I would think it's you. You said souls can't die. I showed you from Scripture that they can. You said Jesus' soul didn't die. I showed you from Scripture that it did. You said souls don't require a body. I showed you Scripture that ties the soul directly to the body. You said aion means forever, I showed it doesn't.

If you'd open your mind and let the Scriptures speak instead of trying to make them fit with what you believe you'd begin to see what the Bible actually teaches.

•A Soul does NOT require a Body.
•A Soul That IS Living, requires Gods Breath in the Soul.
• It is the BODY, that requires A Living soul, for the Body to Begin ITS Blood LIFE.

Again, Read Gen 2:7. It says a body is a soul. Again, the body requires God's breath or spirit to BECOME a living soul


There is a Reason Scripture teaches...to Study Scripture, AS a Child, be freshly Filled with the Word of God... rather than with what Fallacies of men's interpretations you have filled yourself with.
I would suggest the same to you. It's pretty clear that the Bible isn't saying what you claim. I've given you passage after passage that shows that what I've said is the case. Winning the debate is not important, correctly understanding the word of God is.

You preach AS IF your Bible Ended at the OT, and you Discovered Nothing in Addition to what OT men knew.

Glory to God,
Taken

No, but I haven't dismissed it as many do. Please, show me where the NT differs from the OT. It doesn't.
 

Taken

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Well, you're clearly not rightly dividing the word, because the word says the man, which you agreed was the body, became a living soul.

Again, the Scriptures are clear that the body and the soul are the same. No body, no soul. I mean, I gave you Scripture that explicitly states the soul is the blood. Blood is a physical thing. It's not some immaterial thing.

The Body and Soul are Not the Same Thing.
The Body And Soul are the Same One Man!
And if Continue Learning the Truth...
You should discover ;
The body, The soul, The spirit Are the Same ONE MAN...
Went over this already, and Specifically told you:
Regardless of Where the Body, soul, spirit OF a man is...Each is identified By The One man's NAME.


There is no such thing as spiritual death.
Again, there is no such thing as spiritual death.

Ya there is:
Death is Separation.
Physical Death is the Body separated From Life.
Spiritual Death is Separation From God.

Not a mystery. It was First revealed IN the Garden of Eden.

Adam was with God, in Gods Garden.
Adam warned not to eat OF the T of G&E...or what? In the Day Adam should eat OF that tree he would die.
And? Adam ate. And his body did not die....
Whoopie. God Lied Eh? No. Adam became separated from God! Booted out of Gods Garden. Spiritually Dead.

Body's, souls, spirits OF MEN Not With God, ARE Spiritually Dead, without God!

What do you think Reconcillation is About and For? It getting one man's WHOLE "body,soul,spirit" BACK WITH God! Spiritually ALIVE.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. (Isa. 53:11-12 KJV)

Every Living soul is poured out- leaves/ departs the dead body!

That is not the highlight of that passage.
Men already Knew the Living Soul Departs out of a Dead Body.
It is Gods Life (Breath) in a soul.
No, Gods Life does not remain in Dead rotting corpse'!

How can you say you rightly divide the word when you refuse to acknowledge that Christ poured out His soul unto death? Clearly His soul died.

Because I already know a single Born man, has a body, Living soul, spirit- where each comes from, when, why, and where each thing Goes at BODILY Death, and why.

Again, Read Gen 2:7. It says a body is a soul.

Nope!
(The Form, The Man)
(The Form and Living soul), IS the Man.


Gen 2:
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
 

Butch5

Butch5
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Homer Ga.
The Body and Soul are Not the Same Thing.
The Body And Soul are the Same One Man!
And if Continue Learning the Truth...
You should discover ;
The body, The soul, The spirit Are the Same ONE MAN...
Went over this already, and Specifically told you:
Regardless of Where the Body, soul, spirit OF a man is...Each is identified By The One man's NAME.

Yeah, you keep saying it, but what you say doesn't align with Scripture. The body became a living soul. Are you going to believe the Scripture or not. That body, made of dust, became a living soul. You can believe whatever you want to believe but that isn't going to change what the Scriptures say. That body became a living soul. It couldn't get an clearer.




Ya there is:
Death is Separation.
Physical Death is the Body separated From Life.
Spiritual Death is Separation From God.

Not a mystery. It was First revealed IN the Garden of Eden.

Adam was with God, in Gods Garden.
Adam warned not to eat OF the T of G&E...or what? In the Day Adam should eat OF that tree he would die.
And? Adam ate. And his body did not die....
Whoopie. God Lied Eh? No. Adam became separated from God! Booted out of Gods Garden. Spiritually Dead.

Body's, souls, spirits OF MEN Not With God, ARE Spiritually Dead, without God!

What do you think Reconcillation is About and For? It getting one man's WHOLE "body,soul,spirit" BACK WITH God! Spiritually ALIVE.

Sorry, but you can't make it up as you go. Death is the cessation of life. It's not separation from God. That this is the case is shown in the fact that you didn't post anything that spoke of spiritual death. Instead, you gave an explanation of "Your" interpretation of what happened to Adam as an example of what you call spiritual death. However, your understanding of that is incorrect. Adam did die in the day he ate from the tree. David said,

For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.1 (Ps. 90:4 KJV)

Peter alluded to this passage when questioned about the delay in the Lord's return.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (2 Pet. 3:8 KJV)

Adam lived 930 years, just short of one prophetic day. This is both the ancient Jewish and early Christian understanding of the passage.

Jewish: Book of Jubilees.

29. And at the close of the nineteenth jubilee, in the seventh week in the sixth year thereof, Adam died, and all
his sons buried him in the land of his creation, 8 and he was the first to be buried 9 in the earth. 30. And he lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: "On the day that ye eat thereof ye will die."

Early Christian: Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book 5, Chapter 23,

2. Thus, then, in the day that they did eat, in the same did they die, and became death’s debtors, since it was one day of the creation. For it is said, “There was made in the evening, and there was made in the morning, one day.” Now in this same day that they did eat, in that also did they die. But according to the cycle and progress of the days, after which one is termed first, another second, and another third, if anybody seeks diligently to learn upon what day out of the seven it was that Adam died, he will find it by examining the dispensation of the Lord. For by summing up in Himself the whole human race from the beginning to the end, He has also summed up its death. From this it is clear that the Lord suffered death, in obedience to His Father, upon that day on which Adam died while he disobeyed God. Now he died on the same day in which he did eat. For God said, “In that day on which ye shall eat of it, ye shall die by death.” The Lord, therefore, recapitulating in Himself this day, underwent His sufferings upon the day preceding the Sabbath, that is, the sixth day of the creation, on which day man was created; thus granting him a second creation by means of His passion, which is that [creation] out of death. And there are some, again, who relegate the death of Adam to the thousandth year; for since “a day of the Lord is as a thousand years,” he did not overstep the thousand years, but died within them, thus bearing out the sentence of his sin. Whether, therefore, with respect to disobedience, which is death; whether [we consider] that, on account of that, they were delivered over to death, and made debtors to it; whether with respect to [the fact that on] one and the same day on which they ate they also died (for it is one day of the creation); whether [we regard this point], that, with respect to this cycle of days, they died on the day in which they did also eat, that is, the day of the preparation, which is termed “the pure supper,” that is, the sixth day of the feast, which the Lord also exhibited when He suffered on that day; or whether [we reflect] that he (Adam) did not overstep the thousand years, but died within their limit, — it follows that, in regard to all these significations, God is indeed true. For they died who tasted of the tree; and the serpent is proved a liar and a murderer, as the Lord said of him: “For he is a murderer from the beginning, and the truth is not in him.”

Early Church Fathers - – Ante-Nicene Fathers: The Writings of the Fathers Down To A.D. 325.

As you can see, it was understood that it was the 1000 year prophetic day that God meant. It wasn't some unbiblical concept of spiritual death, that is found nowhere in Scripture, that God was referring to. Also, we know that it was physical death because God said it was.

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;1
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. (Gen. 3:17-19 KJV)

Adams punishment for eating from the tree was to return to dust. It's not some mystical thing. It was to die, to return to dust.




Every Living soul is poured out- leaves/ departs the dead body!

That is not the highlight of that passage.
Men already Knew the Living Soul Departs out of a Dead Body.
It is Gods Life (Breath) in a soul.
No, Gods Life does not remain in Dead rotting corpse'!

Dude, the passage says He poured out His soul to death. His soul died. It can't be any simpler.



Because I already know a single Born man, has a body, Living soul, spirit- where each comes from, when, why, and where each thing Goes at BODILY Death, and why.

Apparently you don't. You think a man has a living soul as opposed to being a living soul.



Nope!
(The Form, The Man)
(The Form and Living soul), IS the Man.


Gen 2:
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

That's not what the passage says. Why do you refuse to acknowledge it. There's no problem being wrong. Willfully staying there is. The Man consists of the dust of the earth. It's right there, 'God formed man from the dust of the earth'. According to the passage the man existed before God breathed the breath of life and before the soul came into being. God breathed into that man and that man became a living soul.
 

kcnalp

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Hell will be filled with those who don't believe in Hell.
Revelation 20:15 (NKJV)
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
 

Taken

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The body became a living soul.
That body, made of dust, became a living soul.
That body became a living soul.

Sorry, but you can't make it up as you go.

Death is the cessation of life.
It's not separation from God.

Instead, you gave an explanation of "Your" interpretation of what happened to Adam as an example of what you call spiritual death.

Gen 2:
[16] And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
[17] But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Gen 3:
[12] And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

Gen 3
[23] Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
[24] So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden ...

Adam With God in Gods Garden.
Adam Without God outside of Gods Garden.

However, your understanding of that is incorrect.

Adam did die in the day he ate from the tree.

Gen 5
[5] And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

BY your interpretation...
Adam lived 930 years in the Garden of Eden.

No he did not.
I'll stick with Scripture.


David said,
For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.1 (Ps. 90:4 KJV)

Peter alluded to this passage ...

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (2 Pet. 3:8 KJV)

Adam lived 930 years, just short of one prophetic day. This is both the ancient Jewish and early Christian understanding of the passage.

Jewish: Book of Jubilees...

You think a man has a living soul as opposed to being a living soul.

Nope.
Not "HAS" OR "IS"...
"HAS" AND "IS".



•Well aware- God is Infinate.
God is NOT constrained BY "Time".
•Well aware- Man IS Constrained BY "Time".
•Well aware- God established Time Constraints...For Mankind!
Days, Months, Years, Hours, Seasons, -


God breathed into that man and that man became a living soul.

The body became a living soul.
That body, made of dust, became a living soul.
That body became a living soul

Make up your mind- ^^

The fact is The man, had a Body. A man still has a Body...with or without a Living Soul.
A man has a Living soul...with or without a body.

Body's Blood LIFE Dies.
Gods Life (His Breath Never Dies)
Gods Life blown INTO a Body...
Comes Back Out (departs) of A Dead Body.

A man's "Dead" Body of Dust RETURNS To Dust.
A man's Living Soul, GOES TO where God Sends it.

A Departed Living Soul- Sent to Hell- Is Spiritually Dead....DUH...."Separated FROM God! "WITHOUT" God.

A Departed Living Soul- Carried by Gods Holy Angels To Heaven...DUH...Are "WITH" God.

Seriously? You do not Know the purpose for the Umpteen Scriptures About SAVING ones Soul?
Do you think that means, a man's "Body" will not Suffer Dying?

The Body OF one man...Is not the same thing as the Soul OF one man.

Do you think the following Scripture is IN Error?

1 Thes 5:
[23] And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Should that instead read...

your whole spirit and soul AND body soul
?

should Your be Your ...struck out, because you argue you ONLY ARE a Soul...
And DO NOT HAVE a soul?

But fail to comprehend YOU also...
"Have" a spirit, Have a Soul, Have a body...?

All Body's Are sentenced TO Death.
A man's Body Born ALIVE -
Is Bodily ALIVE and Spiritually Dead!
(Less you think yourself some kind of Miracle Born baby...naturally born...Believing IN God)!!!

• Do you NOT KNOW- it is WHILE a man IS Dead (Spiritually Separated from God)...that a MAN Becomes Spiritually Alive? Saved and Born Again?

•You think that is talking About A Physically Dead BODY?--->

Col 2
[13] And you, being dead in you sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

How do you NOT Comprehend...
Souls are Blown INTO a Body.
Body's Die.
Souls Depart The Body.
A Soul Returned to the Body,
The Body returns to Living.
???

1 Kings 17:
[17] And it came to pass after these things, that the son of the woman, the mistress of the house, fell sick; and his sickness was so sore, that there was no breath left in him.
[18] And she said unto Elijah, What have I to do with thee, O thou man of God? art thou come unto me to call my sin to remembrance, and to slay my son?
[19] And he said unto her, Give me thy son. And he took him out of her bosom, and carried him up into a loft, where he abode, and laid him upon his own bed.
[20] And he cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, hast thou also brought evil upon the widow with whom I sojourn, by slaying her son?
[21] And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.
[22] And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.
[23] And Elijah took the child, and brought him down out of the chamber into the house, and delivered him unto his mother: and Elijah said, See, thy son liveth.

The NT reveals MORE KNOWLEDGE About THE WHOLE, body, soul, spirit "OF" A MAN...
If that is of no interest to YOU...<---THAT
and your personal accusations against me...
Affect me, my Assured Salvation, OF my body, AND OF my soul, AND OF my spirit...
NOT ONE IOTA!

Assured IN Christ the Lord God,
Taken
 

Butch5

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It's pretty clear that you don't hold the Scriptures as the ultimate authority. Thus there is really no basis for debate. The Scriptures plainly state that the man "became a living soul". The man is the body of dust. You deny that. The Scriptures state plainly that Jesus poured out His soul unto death. You claim souls cannot die. Again, you deny Scripture. At this point there really is no basis for discussion. If the Scripture aren't the final word then anyone can say whatever they want.
 

kcnalp

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It's pretty clear that you don't hold the Scriptures as the ultimate authority. Thus there is really no basis for debate. The Scriptures plainly state that the man "became a living soul". The man is the body of dust. You deny that. The Scriptures state plainly that Jesus poured out His soul unto death. You claim souls cannot die. Again, you deny Scripture. At this point there really is no basis for discussion. If the Scripture aren't the final word then anyone can say whatever they want.
Rev 20 They will be tormented day and night FOREVER and ever.
 

Taken

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It's pretty clear that you don't hold the Scriptures as the ultimate authority.

Just the Opposite.

Thus there is really no basis for debate.

True.
One debating with Carnal undersatanding and One debating with Spiritual Understanding will not end in Agreement.

The Scriptures plainly state that the man "became a living soul".

True.
And continued teaching teaches...
A man HAS A - Name.
A man HAS A - body.
A man HAS A - soul.
A man HAS A - spirit.

All bodies of men, separated from God, are dead, though they are living.

All Living souls of men, separated from God, are dead,
though they are living.

All natural spirits of men, separated from God, are dead, though they are living.

All bodies of men, IN Christ, physically alive or physically dead, ARE ALIVE IN Christ, and WITH, the Lord God.

All SAVED Living souls of men, IN Christ, in body OR out of body, ARE Not Separated From the Lord.

All SAVED Living souls of men, Faithful to God, (before Christ), Out of Body, ARE Not Separated From God. (After Christ), Are With God.

All QUICKENED spirits of man, in body, IN Christ, in Body or out of Body, are With God.

The man is the body of dust. You deny that.

Yes the MAN'S BODY, Came from Dust...
(No, I have NEVER denied that!)
And RETURNS TO DUST.
(No, I have NEVER denied THAT!)

The Scriptures state plainly that Jesus poured out His soul unto death.

BINGO!
Jesus- A man
Jesus- Has A BODY
Jesus- Has A Living Soul
*
Jesus'- BODY Died- before witnesses, ON a Cross. Jesus' DEAD BODY, was removed From the Cross, Jesus' DEAD BODY, was BURIED IN a Cave.
* Jesus' "BLOOD was poured OUT" spilled ON the Ground. (Departed His DEAD BODY),
* Jesus' "Living Soul was DEPARTED OUT" of His Body and WENT "TO PARADISE", and Preached TO the Living souls IN PARADISE!
** There ARE NO Body's OF men IN PARADISE!
** PARADISE - IS Where SAVED Living Souls, (Departed OUT of Physically Dead Bodies)...
GO. (And THE Dead Body Is Buried!)

* When a man's BODY Dies- the Body's Life-
(Which IS BLOOD)
IS Poured OUT of the BODY.
• The Living Soul of a man's dead Body-
Is Departed OUT of His Body.
• A Saved Living Soul GOES TO the Comforts of PARADISE..,
With God!
• An UN-Saved Living Soul GOES To the Torments of HELL...
Without God!


YOUR UNDERSTANDING- is resting ON Carnal Understanding...(when it is Spiritual UNDERSTANDING, that parallels Gods Understanding, Who Himself IS Spirit)

You claim souls cannot die.

Death- Carnally IS- Physical.
Death- Spiritually IS- "Separation FROM God" (whether or not, a Thing; body, soul, spirit...
IS Physically ALIVE or Physically Dead.)

Your Claim "Half Truth Accusatory Claim IS FALSE."
Living Souls "Separated From God, ARE Spiritually Dead"
Living Souls "IN Body or OUT of Body", with God, OR Without God...ARE still Living Souls.

Again, you deny Scripture.

No, ^ THAT IS FALSE.
TO BE Clear:
What I DENY and REJECT...is YOUR Carnal Understanding of Scripture.

At this point there really is no basis for discussion.

True.
A discussion OF Spiritual Things, between One with Carnal Understanding and One with
Spiritual Understanding...will end IN a Disagreement...
"Less" the One with Carnal Understanding...
Should GO and Read and SEEK Spiritual Understanding OF THE TOPIC FOR Himself.

You hang ON TO...man was BECAME a Living Soul. (YOU MAKE Man's "BODY" A Living Soul)
God CREATED a BODY.
God Didn't Change The BODY.
THE Body OF Man, IS Still The BODY "OF" man.

God Changed "the Condition OF the BODY"...
From NOT ALIVE, TO LIVING.
The "Man" IS Therefore:
...A BODY OF DUST.
AND
...A LIVING SOUL.

You are trying TO Argue...
Man IS:
...A BODY of DUST
OR
...A LIVING SOUL

The fact: A Naturally ALIVE Born man;
IS BOTH, A BODY AND LIVING SOUL, NOT ONE OR the Other.

The fact is: A Naturally ALIVE Born "MAN"
HAS
...A BODY
...A LIVING SOUL
...A SPIRIT

"Your" IS Possessive, OF WHAT A man "HAS", "NOT" IN Regard TO WHAT A MAN "IS"!

"Your"; house, car, family, children, money, disease, rest, knowledge, understanding...
as Well as "YOUR" BODY, "YOUR" SOUL, "YOUR" SPIRIT, "ARE" specific things "YOU, A man" HAS !

Scripture TEACHES...specifically, and I quoted Scripture FOR YOU, TO read and SEE...
Yet you failed to comprehend ...
And continued to ONLY understand...
Early OT kNOWLEDGE...
And NOT NT revealed KNOWLEDGE...

1 Thes 5:
[23] And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Gal 6:
[18] Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen.

James:
[21] Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

Matt 6:
[25] Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

BODY, SOUL, SPIRIT....ARE NOT THE SAME ... THINGS.
BODY, SOUL, SPIRIT...ARE THE SAME THINGS...EVERY Natually Born Alive MAN..."HAS".

If the Scripture aren't the final word then anyone can say whatever they want.

Yes. And to Comprened the "Finality"...THE WHOLE TRUTH, requires one to ADVANCE, from what was KEPT SECRET From Early (BABE) Man...TO What Was Revealed TO LATER (MATURE) Man!

Matt 13:
[35] ...I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

When that which WAS Secret...IS Revealed...
It is No Longer Secret! It is A TRUTH.

A MAN...
has a body of dust From dust,
has a Living soul of Gods breath, from God.
has a natural spirit of truth, from man's truth.

God OFFERS...3 WAYS TO "MAKE" the 3 THINGS (body, soul, spirit) "OF" A MAN...
ALIVE "WITH" the Lord God Almighty...
"FOREVER".

Gods OFFERING-
Kill the Body- Raise the Body Uncorrupted
Restore the Soul- from corrupt, To Very Good.
Quicken the spirit- Rebirth the spirit, with Gods Seed.
Feed the Quickened spirit- Gods Truth.

It is A MANS Choice-
TO Accept Gods Offering... OR NOT.

It is man's Responsibility- To Learn WHAT God OFFERS...and FOR WHAT...and WHAT the man IS ACCEPTING or REJECTING.

If you do NOT KNOW the OFFERING is Specifically Regarding...
A man's body,
A man's soul,
A man's spirit...

How do you KNOW what specifically YOU (the man, IS ACCEPTING or Rejecting Regarding EACH Thing "of " a Man?)
BY your limited understanding...
You have changed the Body "of a Man" INTO the Soul "of a Man."

• You are TRYING to MAKE, the man's Living Soul Physically Dead, When and Because the Man's BODY is Physically Dead...

^ That IS False!
There ARE Multitudes...Living Souls "of men" still Living...Departed OUT OF the "SAME" Physically DEAD Body's "OF" those same men.

Glory IN Gods Truth and Spiritual Understanding, rather than in man's truth and understanding!!"

Taken
 
Last edited:

Butch5

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Just the Opposite.



True.
One debating with Carnal undersatanding and One debating with Spiritual Understanding will not end in Agreement.



True.
And continued teaching teaches...
A man HAS A - Name.
A man HAS A - body.
A man HAS A - soul.
A man HAS A - spirit.

All bodies of men, separated from God, are dead, though they are living.

All Living souls of men, separated from God, are dead,
though they are living.

All natural spirits of men, separated from God, are dead, though they are living.

All bodies of men, IN Christ, physically alive or physically dead, ARE ALIVE IN Christ, and WITH, the Lord God.

All SAVED Living souls of men, IN Christ, in body OR out of body, ARE Not Separated From the Lord.

All SAVED Living souls of men, Faithful to God, (before Christ), Out of Body, ARE Not Separated From God. (After Christ), Are With God.

All QUICKENED spirits of man, in body, IN Christ, in Body or out of Body, are With God.



Yes the MAN'S BODY, Came from Dust...
(No, I have NEVER denied that!)
And RETURNS TO DUST.
(No, I have NEVER denied THAT!)



BINGO!
Jesus- A man
Jesus- Has A BODY
Jesus- Has A Living Soul
*
Jesus'- BODY Died- before witnesses, ON a Cross. Jesus' DEAD BODY, was removed From the Cross, Jesus' DEAD BODY, was BURIED IN a Cave.
* Jesus' "BLOOD was poured OUT" spilled ON the Ground. (Departed His DEAD BODY),
* Jesus' "Living Soul was DEPARTED OUT" of His Body and WENT "TO PARADISE", and Preached TO the Living souls IN PARADISE!
** There ARE NO Body's OF men IN PARADISE!
** PARADISE - IS Where SAVED Living Souls, (Departed OUT of Physically Dead Bodies)...
GO. (And THE Dead Body Is Buried!)

* When a man's BODY Dies- the Body's Life-
(Which IS BLOOD)
IS Poured OUT of the BODY.
• The Living Soul of a man's dead Body-
Is Departed OUT of His Body.
• A Saved Living Soul GOES TO the Comforts of PARADISE..,
With God!
• An UN-Saved Living Soul GOES To the Torments of HELL...
Without God!


YOUR UNDERSTANDING- is resting ON Carnal Understanding...(when it is Spiritual UNDERSTANDING, that parallels Gods Understanding, Who Himself IS Spirit)



Death- Carnally IS- Physical.
Death- Spiritually IS- "Separation FROM God" (whether or not, a Thing; body, soul, spirit...
IS Physically ALIVE or Physically Dead.)

Your Claim "Half Truth Accusatory Claim IS FALSE."
Living Souls "Separated From God, ARE Spiritually Dead"
Living Souls "IN Body or OUT of Body", with God, OR Without God...ARE still Living Souls.



No, ^ THAT IS FALSE.
TO BE Clear:
What I DENY and REJECT...is YOUR Carnal Understanding of Scripture.



True.
A discussion OF Spiritual Things, between One with Carnal Understanding and One with
Spiritual Understanding...will end IN a Disagreement...
"Less" the One with Carnal Understanding...
Should GO and Read and SEEK Spiritual Understanding OF THE TOPIC FOR Himself.

You hang ON TO...man was BECAME a Living Soul. (YOU MAKE Man's "BODY" A Living Soul)
God CREATED a BODY.
God Didn't Change The BODY.
THE Body OF Man, IS Still The BODY "OF" man.

God Changed "the Condition OF the BODY"...
From NOT ALIVE, TO LIVING.
The "Man" IS Therefore:
...A BODY OF DUST.
AND
...A LIVING SOUL.

You are trying TO Argue...
Man IS:
...A BODY of DUST
OR
...A LIVING SOUL

The fact: A Naturally ALIVE Born man;
IS BOTH, A BODY AND LIVING SOUL, NOT ONE OR the Other.

The fact is: A Naturally ALIVE Born "MAN"
HAS
...A BODY
...A LIVING SOUL
...A SPIRIT

"Your" IS Possessive, OF WHAT A man "HAS", "NOT" IN Regard TO WHAT A MAN "IS"!

"Your"; house, car, family, children, money, disease, rest, knowledge, understanding...
as Well as "YOUR" BODY, "YOUR" SOUL, "YOUR" SPIRIT, "ARE" specific things "YOU, A man" HAS !

Scripture TEACHES...specifically, and I quoted Scripture FOR YOU, TO read and SEE...
Yet you failed to comprehend ...
And continued to ONLY understand...
Early OT kNOWLEDGE...
And NOT NT revealed KNOWLEDGE...

1 Thes 5:
[23] And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Gal 6:
[18] Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen.

James:
[21] Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

Matt 6:
[25] Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

BODY, SOUL, SPIRIT....ARE NOT THE SAME ... THINGS.
BODY, SOUL, SPIRIT...ARE THE SAME THINGS...EVERY Natually Born Alive MAN..."HAS".



Yes. And to Comprened the "Finality"...THE WHOLE TRUTH, requires one to ADVANCE, from what was KEPT SECRET From Early (BABE) Man...TO What Was Revealed TO LATER (MATURE) Man!

Matt 13:
[35] ...I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

When that which WAS Secret...IS Revealed...
It is No Longer Secret! It is A TRUTH.

A MAN...
has a body of dust From dust,
has a Living soul of Gods breath, from God.
has a natural spirit of truth, from man's truth.

God OFFERS...3 WAYS TO "MAKE" the 3 THINGS (body, soul, spirit) "OF" A MAN...
ALIVE "WITH" the Lord God Almighty...
"FOREVER".

Gods OFFERING-
Kill the Body- Raise the Body Uncorrupted
Restore the Soul- from corrupt, To Very Good.
Quicken the spirit- Rebirth the spirit, with Gods Seed.
Feed the Quickened spirit- Gods Truth.

It is A MANS Choice-
TO Accept Gods Offering... OR NOT.

It is man's Responsibility- To Learn WHAT God OFFERS...and FOR WHAT...and WHAT the man IS ACCEPTING or REJECTING.

If you do NOT KNOW the OFFERING is Specifically Regarding...
A man's body,
A man's soul,
A man's spirit...

How do you KNOW what specifically YOU (the man, IS ACCEPTING or Rejecting Regarding EACH Thing "of " a Man?)
BY your limited understanding...
You have changed the Body "of a Man" INTO the Soul "of a Man."

• You are TRYING to MAKE, the man's Living Soul Physically Dead, When and Because the Man's BODY is Physically Dead...

^ That IS False!
There ARE Multitudes...Living Souls "of men" still Living...Departed OUT OF the "SAME" Physically DEAD Body's "OF" those same men.

Glory IN Gods Truth and Spiritual Understanding, rather than in man's truth and understanding!!"

Taken
You just make it up as you go. The Bible said man is a living soul. That means the body is a living soul. It's not something like a ghost that live apart from the body.

You can go on and on repeating the same things but that doesn't change what the passage says. There is nothing of man that lives on after death. That's just you trying to force your belief in Dualism on the Scriptures.

Also, nowhere do the Scriptures define death as separation from God. That's just something else that's made up.

You said,

"God Changed "the Condition OF the BODY"...
From NOT ALIVE, TO LIVING.
The "Man" IS Therefore:
...A BODY OF DUST.
AND
...A LIVING SOUL.

You are trying TO Argue...
Man IS:
...A BODY of DUST
OR
...A LIVING SOUL

The fact: A Naturally ALIVE Born man;
IS BOTH, A BODY AND LIVING SOUL, NOT ONE OR the Other.

The fact is: A Naturally ALIVE Born "MAN"
HAS
...A BODY
...A LIVING SOUL
...A SPIRIT"

This shows me that you're not even following my argument. My argument is not that man is one or the other. My argument is that man is a living soul. He doesnt have a living soul and a body. The body is the living soul.
 

kcnalp

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I've already shown you that aion doesnt mean forever. But, if you don't believe Jesus that's your prerogative.
Then why does the NT say it over and over, everlasting, eternal, forever? I just hope you're not accountable on Judgment Day for people burning in Hell.
Matthew 25:41-46 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
 

Taken

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You just make it up as you go.

Hypocrisy!

... the body is a living soul.

Gen 2:
[7] ... man became a living soul.

1 Thes 5:
[23] ...soul AND body...

It's not something like a ghost that live apart from the body.

Gen 35:
[18] ... as her soul was in departing, (for she died) ...

1 Kings 17:
[22] .. the soul OF the child came INTO him again...

Luke 16:
[22] ...the rich man. ...died, and was buried;
[23] And in hell ...
[24] said, ...

... There is nothing OF man that lives on after death.

My argument is that man ...doesn't have a living soul and a body. The body is the living soul.

1 Thes 5:
[23] ...soul AND body...

Again Scripture is correct, and you are not.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Butch5

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Hypocrisy!



Gen 2:
[7] ... man became a living soul.

1 Thes 5:
[23] ...soul AND body...



Gen 35:
[18] ... as her soul was in departing, (for she died) ...

1 Kings 17:
[22] .. the soul OF the child came INTO him again...

Luke 16:
[22] ...the rich man. ...died, and was buried;
[23] And in hell ...
[24] said, ...





1 Thes 5:
[23] ...soul AND body...

Again Scripture is correct, and you are not.

Glory to God,
Taken
What this shows is that you don't understand the passages you quoted. I've already shown that the word soul is used two ways in Scripture. Concretely it means a living being. Abstractly it means life.

1 thes 5. Your life and body.

Gen 35:18. Her life was departing.

1 Kings 17:22. The life of the child came into him again.

Luke 16 doesn't mention soul. And, it's a parable.

1 Thess 5. Life and body.

I've given you numerous Scriptures that connect the soul with the body. One passage said the soul is the blood. What does that mean? Even today we have a saying, the life blood. Blood is life. Without blood one has no life, thus the soul is the blood or the life is the blood.

You're trying to force the Greek concept of Dualism onto the Scriptures. The Scriptures don't support that. What you're doing is finding passages that you can impose Dualism onto. However, when those passages are understood correctly they don't support that idea. That's why we don't it in the creation of man. In the creation accoint the body became a living soul. It doesnt say that God put a living soul in man, it says man became a living soul.
 

Butch5

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Then why does the NT say it over and over, everlasting, eternal, forever? I just hope you're not accountable on Judgment Day for people burning in Hell.
Matthew 25:41-46 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
It's called translator bias. If you researched it you'd see that. Long before anyone becomes a translator they become a Christian. They're "told" what the Bible teaches. So, their beliefs are formed long before they ever translate. It's obvious that they arent going to translate something they believe is wrong. So they translate it to fit with what the believe to be true. But, what if they're wrong? What if some of their beliefs are wrong? They think they're translating it correctly but they're not. I've already shown ample evidence that aion doesn't mean forever. Jesus said it would end. The apostles spoke of the end of the aion. Jesus spoke of this aion and the one to come. If aion means eternity, how can there be this one and the one to come? You can't have this eternity and one to come. Aion is the Greek translation olam. In the OT parts of the Mosaic Law were said to be olam or aion. Yet those things ended. The priesthood of Aaron was said to be olam or aion. In Hebrews Paul said that the Priesthood was changed. So, either olam and aion are wrongly translated or Jesus and the apostles were wrong. I think it's pretty clear that Jesus and the apostles weren't wrong. They were there.
 

kcnalp

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It's called translator bias. If you researched it you'd see that. Long before anyone becomes a translator they become a Christian. They're "told" what the Bible teaches. So, their beliefs are formed long before they ever translate. It's obvious that they arent going to translate something they believe is wrong. So they translate it to fit with what the believe to be true. But, what if they're wrong? What if some of their beliefs are wrong? They think they're translating it correctly but they're not. I've already shown ample evidence that aion doesn't mean forever. Jesus said it would end. The apostles spoke of the end of the aion. Jesus spoke of this aion and the one to come. If aion means eternity, how can there be this one and the one to come? You can't have this eternity and one to come. Aion is the Greek translation olam. In the OT parts of the Mosaic Law were said to be olam or aion. Yet those things ended. The priesthood of Aaron was said to be olam or aion. In Hebrews Paul said that the Priesthood was changed. So, either olam and aion are wrongly translated or Jesus and the apostles were wrong. I think it's pretty clear that Jesus and the apostles weren't wrong. They were there.
So it's your opinion VS the Bible.
 

Taken

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Luke 16 doesn't mention soul.

So?
What is Talking?
A Dead and Buried Body of two men or Living souls of two men?


And, it's a parable.

So?


It doesnt say that God put a living soul in man,

1 Kings 17:
[21] ...let this child's soul come INTO HIM AGAIN...

You should study before making a flawed point.