Not faith alone?

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mailmandan

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Good works come in obedience to Christ along with Salvation. The works talked about in Scripture were works of the law which grants Salvation to no one.
When it comes to the moral aspect of the law, you cannot dissect works of obedience/good works from the law and teach that we are saved by "these" works (works of obedience/good works) but just not "those" works (works of the law). In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "work of obedience" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses. (Leviticus 19:18)

In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. Now please explain to me which works of obedience/good works could a Christian accomplish which are "completely detached" from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18). *NOWHERE does the Bible teach we are saved by grace through faith "plus works of any kind." That is salvation by works no matter how much you try and sugar coat it.

The apostle Paul does not merely limit "works" only to specific works of the law, but includes works in general. In Titus 3:5, we read that it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.. and in 2 Timothy 1:9, we read that God saved us and called us with a holy calling not according to our works.. We are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works. (Ephesians 2:8-10)
 
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Taken

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Phil 1:29

For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

-A man Hearing is the Beginning.
-Faith is A Gift, From God.
-Increased Faith, IS an Increased Gift From God.
-A man WITH Faith, "receives" Other Gifts AND Blessings, a man WITHOUT Faith, "Does NOT Receive."

•Without Faith, there is no Suffering FOR Him.
•Without Faith, there Are NO Works you can Do TO Glorify God.
•Without Faith, there is NO Salvation of your soul.
•Without Faith, there is NO Quickening of your spirit.
•Without Faith, there is NO crucifixion of your body, with Jesus.
•Without Faith, there is NO Spirit, Seed, Truth OF God, IN you.
•Without Faith, there is NO Seal of God, UPON you.
•Without Faith, there is NO resurrection of your Body UNCORRUPTED.
•Without Faith, there is NO Redemption OF God Claiming You ARE His Inheritance.
•Without Faith...a man IS Without The Lord God.
•Without Faith...a man is WITHOUT assurance TO BE With God.


Everything Concerning a man's Relationship WITH God or WITHOUT God...
Solely Hinges, Rests ON that man's "FAITH" or Lack thereof.


Glory to God,
Taken
 

dev553344

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Faith that produces no works at all is not genuine faith, but an empty profession of faith/dead faith. (James 2:14)

Yes this is the problem that I've heard a lot of people have with Paul and his messages.

In James we learn: James 2:14-17

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

And then Jesus in Matthew 25:37-41 says:

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

And then Paul says something different in Ephesians 2:8-9 says:

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

And when in dispute I always turn to this passage directing us to listen to Jesus' words:

Luke 9:33-35

33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.

34 While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.

35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

A couple things I get from Luke 9:33-35, First is that they were in the habit of honoring Saints or Prophets with tabernacles, I find that practice to be very Catholic in spirit. Second that when it comes to Saints or Prophets and Jesus the Christ, God the Father would have us listen to Jesus the Christ.
 
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ChristisGod

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Never by faith alone. I reject that doctrine
Faith comes by Gods grace as per:
Ephesians 2:8. Faith alone means apart from works , not grace. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God

Philippians 1:29- "For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake."

John 1:13- children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Salvation is of the Lord. Its all His doing by His grace, even being granted by God the ability to believe. Our human decision to come to Christ comes from God, not by human decision but born of God.

God saves us and keeps us saved.

Jude 1:24-25
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Philippians 1:6-
And I am certain that God, who began the good work within you, will continue his work until it is finally finished on the day when Christ Jesus returns.NLT

1 Corinthians 1:8
He will sustain you to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

hope this helps !!!
 
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theefaith

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Faith to believe comes from God as a gift in that passage. Amen !

Salvation is of the Lord !
So your not called to suffer?
Luke 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
 

theefaith

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How does 2 Thessalonians 3:3 (kjv) apply to the verse in the OP?

2Th 3:3, But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.
Suffering for love of God is delight not evil
Luke 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
 

theefaith

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Man is saved through faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1; Ephesians 2:8,9; Galatians 2:16; Philippians 3:9 etc..)

Faith alone?
Christ alone?
Grace alone?
How many alone’s can there be and still be considered alone?
Mark 16:16 faith and baptism
 

theefaith

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No, never faith alone. It is through Grace alone by faith, but never alone

mid grace can make faith effective efficacious why can’t grace make works effective and efficacious?

Titus 3:14
 

theefaith

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The moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation we are saved. It’s by grace through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

really?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it ishigh time to awake out of sleep: for now isour salvation nearer than when we believed.
 
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ChristisGod

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So your not called to suffer?
Luke 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
of course but what does that have to do with the price of tea in china ?

Salvation is of the Lord and He keeps us saved. We do not keep ourselves saved that is salvation by works. We are saved by GRACE through FAITH not by works. Ephesians 2:8-10. Works are a result of salvation not the means to salvation. Genuine Faith produced good works as per the above passage. A good tree will produce good fruit just like saving faith(the good tree) produces good works(good fruit).

hope this helps !!!
 
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theefaith

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What about "through faith apart from works"?

Romans 4:5-6,

Titus 3:5 (kjv),

Romans 11:5-6 (kjv),

Ephesians 2:8-9.

refers to the redemption accomplished by Christ then we believe are baptized and grace makes all are acts efficacious faith and works
 
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theefaith

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Do you understand what believers mean by salvation through faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone?

really?

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
 
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theefaith

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Nevertheless we are saved "not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:9 (kjv))

not salvation but the redemption accomplished by Christ lest any man boast, we have to have works even faith is a work you must choose as an act of the will to believe
 
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theefaith

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Works come as a result of salvation.

no one has works then cos no one has salvation in this life. Matt 24:13

By works (John 5:28-29; Rom 2:6, 7; James 2:24)?
By grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8)?
By his blood (Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22)?
 
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theefaith

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Good works come in obedience to Christ along with Salvation. The works talked about in Scripture were works of the law which grants Salvation to no one.


By works (John 5:28-29; Rom 2:6, 7; James 2:24)?
By grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8)?
By his blood (Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22)?
 
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theefaith

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Apparently you don't understand. Saying that we are saved by faith in Christ alone does not exclude God's Grace. Grace is God's part and faith is man's part. It simply means that we are saved the moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation apart from works. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ!
Galatians 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...

Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved.

Sanctification: the life of grace, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love!
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
 
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theefaith

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of course but what does that have to do with the price of tea in china ?

Salvation is of the Lord and He keeps us saved. We do not keep ourselves saved that is salvation by works. We are saved by GRACE through FAITH not by works. Ephesians 2:8-10. Works are a result of salvation not the means to salvation. Genuine Faith produced good works as per the above passage. A good tree will produce good fruit just like saving faith(the good tree) produces good works(good fruit).

hope this helps !!!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ!
Galatians 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...

Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved.

Sanctification: the life of grace, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love!
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
 
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charity

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not salvation but the redemption accomplished by Christ lest any man boast, we have to have works even faith is a work you must choose as an act of the will to believe
Hello @theefaith,

I do not believe that faith is a 'work'. For faith comes by 'hearing' and hearing by, 'the word of God' (Romans 10:17). It is the action upon the heart and mind by the word of God concerning God's Son the Lord Jesus Christ that produces faith. The seed of faith is implanted within, and grows with each successive entrance of yet more of the word of God. The word of God is the Holy Spirit's sword, and so the work is His. It is He that produces faith within us by the entrance of His Word. 'The entrance of Thy words giveth light'(Psalm 119:130).

His Workmanship! Yes indeed!

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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ChristisGod

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But, what is the evidence of faith? Is it merely a proclamation? "I believe Jesus died for my sins." What if someone worries about how they will pay their bills after they retire, so they hoard money to protect against this fear of not having enough money - is that evidence of faith? If we engage in such behavior, does that prove we do not have faith and are therefore not saved? Why do so many proclaim they have faith, but act as if they do not trust in God? Are those people saved? Can we trust in God that we will be saved, but not trust in God that He will provide for our future? Is being a practical human, one who prepares for the future, evidence that we have chosen the ways of "this world" and abandoned the ways of Jesus?
As the saying goes this world is not our home we are just passing through !

Are we storing up our treasures here on earth ?

Is our trust and reliance on Jesus to meet all of our needs, not wants or are we trusting in ourselves ?

Where is our faith placed ? in Jesus or ourselves

We are commanded by Jesus to deny ourselves, take up our cross( be wiling to die ) and follow Him. The disciples and early church did and they suffered much , beatings, imprisonment and finally death.

Romans 12:2
Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. This world is in opposition to the kingdom of God and its values, principles and security. Its all an illusion and deception from the enemy of our souls.

Hebrews 13:14
For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the city that is to come.

James 4:4
You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

Philippians 3:20
But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,

John 18:36
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”

1 John 2:15-17
Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions—is not from the Father but is from the world. And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever.

1 Peter 2:11-12
Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul. Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable, so that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation.

Hebrews 11:16
But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.

Revelation 21:1-27
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
 
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