David Wilkerson - The Vision 1973

1 Thes. 4:16 and 17
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the call of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, all the Christians who have died will rise from their graves.Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever.


Seems Paul thought (so much so that he had it written down in this letter) he would be alive and on the earth at Christ's return, but he was mistaken. Was he a false prophet?

The subect of the chapter is where are the dead not rapture the church at Thess was a few weeks old they heard a rumor Christ had returned and wondered where the dead that raised first were. 2 thess is about our gathering to the Lord and when
I thess was an error/misunderstanding of the letter by the people of young chuch that was corrected in the 2nd letter.
When are we gathered after the man of sin Antichrist comes ..You are using anerror by the people at Thessolonia as proof ...

look it up for yourself 1 thess was an error in understanding the letter.....
If your trying to prove rapture a misunderstanding by a two week old chuch that was quickley corrected in the second letter isnt it.

most raputure belivers do use these two verses as their basis for rapture but the subject of these verses start at verse 13.

Christina said:

The subect of the chapter is where are the dead not rapture the church at Thess was a few weeks old they heard a rumor Christ had returned and wondered where the dead that raised first were. 2 thess is about our gathering to the Lord and when
I thess was an error/misunderstanding by the young chuch that was corrected in the 2nd letter.
When are we gather after the man of sin Antichrist comes ..You are using anerror by the Thessolonians as proof ... look it up for yourself 1 thess was an error..... If your trying to prove rapture a mistake by a two week old chuch that was quickley correct in the second letter isnt it.

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Nice try but it doesn't change what is written, don't need to look it up already have and it's there in my post in black and white. I couldn't care less about when the rapture takes place my point is that Paul thought he would be alive at Christ's return and he was mistaken. According to your earlier post that makes Paul a false prophet.


Sorry guess I didn't quote your post initially. Here's what I am addressing.
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God says a prophet is 100% right 100% of the time he never said he changed the nature of prophets God is the same yesterday today and tomarrow a sign of a prophet is the same today as was in biblical time.

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[color="#5D5D5D"][font="tahoma][size="2"]Your opinion here would make Paul a false prophet.[/size][/font]

jiggyfly said:

Nice try but it doesn't change what is written, don't need to look it up already have and it's there in my post in black and white. I couldn't care less about when the rapture takes place my point is that Paul thought he would be alive at Christ's return and he was mistaken. According to your earlier post that makes Paul a false prophet.


Sorry guess I didn't quote your post initially. Here's what I am addressing.
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[color="#5D5D5D"][font="tahoma][size="2"]Your opinion here would make Paul a false prophet.[/size][/font]

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What ?Your post doesnt even make sense? what your black and white says isnt what is said
And its God who says a prophet is right I have no idea what you are talking about a pointless post

perhaps you should read Hammerstones study on this it at the top of his page for easy accesss
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/444-the-rapture-lie-bible-study/

Christina said:

What ?Your post doesnt even make sense? what your black and white says isnt what is said
And its God who says a prophet is right I have no idea what you are talking about a pointless post

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No doubt you consider my post pointless, probably because it points out your errant thinking. There is a difference between old covenant prophets and new covenant prophets. If you can't see this than you have a serious need to be taught about the differences between old and new covenants.

By the way why not just post the scriptures where god says a prophet must be 100% right.

jiggyfly said:

No doubt you consider my post pointless, probably because it points out your errant thinking. There is a difference between old covenant prophets and new covenant prophets. If you can't see this than you have a serious need to be taught about the differences between old and new covenants.

By the way why not just post the scriptures where god says a prophet must be 100% right.

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provide scripture that say the prophets are differnt

God gave us example after example of prophets so we could no who were false prophets,
if his prophets were wrong they were not of him. Gos is the same he never changes either prove where he changed
or yours is just an opinon.

Christina said:

provide scripture that say the prophets are differnt

God gave us example after example of prophets so we could no who were false prophets,
if his prophets were wrong they were not of him. Gos is the same he never changes either prove where he changed
or yours is just an opinon.

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Ofcourse it is my opinion and it could be wrong, but then I am not the one who is in denial about opinions here.


Show me one scripture that states Balaam uttered a false prophecy.

Jiggyfly...................... I understand what your saying....... Paul said WE................

Now you can say that Paul meant WE as the collective Chruch, in Which case Paul Was correct.

Now if Paul meant HIM.......... Then Paul missed it. No supprise, Paul said "I have learned" Paul also got the slats knocked out from under him when that messenger of Satan showed up.

Christiana Does not understand The Holy Spirit, and she does not Operate in Tongues, or as far as I can tell any of the gifts.

So, she is not going to grasp this...........................

The NT Prophet steps out in faith and speaks in a known language directly from God. Now that takes faith to grab the words and speak them. I know, I have done it tons of times......... The thing is, we can get our own emotion and thoughts mixed up with this.

Having operated this gift many times, I am guilty of adding myself into something cool that was ment for someone else. I am getting better at not doing that.

Rom 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

If there is a portion of faith, there must be greater and lesser portions. I also know there are different levels of anointing. This is different than the OT Prophets, and someone today can miss it or get part of it correct.

In any case.........Christina is not going to understand any of this, so we might need to take it easy on her.

Jesus Is Lord.

Christina said:

provide scripture that say the prophets are differnt

God gave us example after example of prophets so we could no who were false prophets,
if his prophets were wrong they were not of him. Gos is the same he never changes either prove where he changed
or yours is just an opinon.

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For I am about to do a brand-new thing. See, I have already begun! Do you not see it? I will make a pathway through the wilderness for my people to come home. I will create rivers for them in the desert! Isaiah 43:19


Again you seem to sruggle differentiating between the old covenant and the new and better covenant and what each contains.


Christine, we can learn one thing by these "old" examples and that is we are completely incapable of making these judgments with scripture alone. Without HolySpirit's involvement and direction men are incapable of such judgments. Just look at how the people treated the true prophets in the old covenant, Jesus said they murdered them. When people try to operate with the scripture and without HolySpirit the same thing happens. The letter always kills, but the Spirit gives life. History has proven this true time and again. This is why there are numerous commands and encouragements in the new testament to be led by HolySpirit.


[font="'trebuchet ms"]One of the spiritual gifts is the discerning of spirits, revealing whether the spirit is God's, demonic, or human. [/font]

jiggyfly said:

Ofcourse it is my opinion and it could be wrong, but then I am not the one who is in denial about opinions here.


Show me one scripture that states Balaam uttered a false prophecy.

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Still waiting on that scripture(s) Christina.