Not faith alone?

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justbyfaith

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Suffering for love of God is delight not evil
Luke 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
If someone smites you on the right cheek because of your faith, that is not evil?
 

justbyfaith

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We do not keep ourselves saved that is salvation by works.

Then it appears that there is a contradiction in the Bible; because 1) we are not saved by works (Ephesians 2:9) and, 2) we do keep ourselves (1 John 5:18).

not salvation but the redemption accomplished by Christ lest any man boast, we have to have works even faith is a work you must choose as an act of the will to believe

Salvation is redemption and redemption is salvation.

And if salvation is by works and faith is a work, it is a work that can alone save you (John 6:28-29)....all that is needed is faith in Jesus Christ...and to add to this is to not trust wholly in what Jesus did for you on the Cross; and to perhaps forfeit your salvation.

(now I believe that water baptism in Jesus' Name is an initiation into the faith by which one appropriates that shed blood).
 

ChristisGod

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Then it appears that there is a contradiction in the Bible; because 1) we are not saved by works (Ephesians 2:9) and, 2) we do keep ourselves (1 John 5:18).



Salvation is redemption and redemption is salvation.

And if salvation is by works and faith is a work, it is a work that can alone save you (John 6:28-29)....all that is needed is faith in Jesus Christ...and to add to this is to not trust wholly in what Jesus did for you on the Cross; and to perhaps forfeit your salvation.

(now I believe that water baptism in Jesus' Name is an initiation into the faith by which one appropriates that shed blood).
There are no contradictions in faith and works. One saves and the other is a by product or result of real faith. Faith without works is dead which agrees with Ephesians 2:8-10. No contradiction at all. The only contradictions are made up by man.

hope this helps !!!
 
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justbyfaith

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and we do not return evil for evil but as Jesus said we are to turn the other cheek.
The point being that it is an evil when we suffer for Jesus' sake.

Now, read 2 Thessalonians 3:3 (kjv); and consider that there are seasons in life and that this is how we reconcile the contrast between that verse and Philippians 1:29.
 

justbyfaith

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There are no contradictions in faith and works. One saves and the other is a by product or result of real faith. Faith without works is dead which agrees with Ephesians 2:8-10. No contradiction at all. The only contradictions are made up by man.

hope this helps !!!
So we keep ourselves in salvation and this is not salvation but the result of salvation.

Okay...
 

ChristisGod

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The point being that it is an evil when we suffer for Jesus' sake.

Now, read 2 Thessalonians 3:3 (kjv); and consider that there are seasons in life and that this is how we reconcile the contrast between that verse and Philippians 1:29.
what man intended for evil God intends for good and allows it to happen. Genesis 50:20
 

theefaith

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Hello @theefaith,

I do not believe that faith is a 'work'. For faith comes by 'hearing' and hearing by, 'the word of God' (Romans 10:17). It is the action upon the heart and mind by the word of God concerning God's Son the Lord Jesus Christ that produces faith. The seed of faith is implanted within, and grows with each successive entrance of yet more of the word of God. The word of God is the Holy Spirit's sword, and so the work is His. It is He that produces faith within us by the entrance of His Word. 'The entrance of Thy words giveth light'(Psalm 119:130).

His Workmanship! Yes indeed!

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Jn 3:16 whosoever believes, you have to choose to believe and remain in a state of believing until death matt 24:13
 
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theefaith

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If someone smites you on the right cheek because of your faith, that is not evil?

Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is lacking of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

What’s lacking? Our participation
 

theefaith

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Then it appears that there is a contradiction in the Bible; because 1) we are not saved by works (Ephesians 2:9) and, 2) we do keep ourselves (1 John 5:18).



Salvation is redemption and redemption is salvation.

And if salvation is by works and faith is a work, it is a work that can alone save you (John 6:28-29)....all that is needed is faith in Jesus Christ...and to add to this is to not trust wholly in what Jesus did for you on the Cross; and to perhaps forfeit your salvation.

(now I believe that water baptism in Jesus' Name is an initiation into the faith by which one appropriates that shed blood).
Then it appears that there is a contradiction in the Bible; because 1) we are not saved by works (Ephesians 2:9) and, 2) we do keep ourselves (1 John 5:18).



Salvation is redemption and redemption is salvation.

And if salvation is by works and faith is a work, it is a work that can alone save you (John 6:28-29)....all that is needed is faith in Jesus Christ...and to add to this is to not trust wholly in what Jesus did for you on the Cross; and to perhaps forfeit your salvation.

(now I believe that water baptism in Jesus' Name is an initiation into the faith by which one appropriates that shed blood).


Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ!
Galatians 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...

Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved.

Sanctification: the life of grace, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love!
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
 
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Heart2Soul

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But, what is the evidence of faith? Is it merely a proclamation? "I believe Jesus died for my sins." What if someone worries about how they will pay their bills after they retire, so they hoard money to protect against this fear of not having enough money - is that evidence of faith? If we engage in such behavior, does that prove we do not have faith and are therefore not saved? Why do so many proclaim they have faith, but act as if they do not trust in God? Are those people saved? Can we trust in God that we will be saved, but not trust in God that He will provide for our future? Is being a practical human, one who prepares for the future, evidence that we have chosen the ways of "this world" and abandoned the ways of Jesus?
Faith is the substance of things hoped for.....the evidence of things not yet seen...and there is a whole chapter in Hebrews that gives many examples of faith...
Hebrews 11
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.

22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.

23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.

24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.

31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:

33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
 
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theefaith

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Faith is the substance of things hoped for.....the evidence of things not yet seen...and there is a whole chapter in Hebrews that gives many examples of faith...
Hebrews 11
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.

22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.

23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.

24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.

31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:

33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

still an act of the will choose to believe
You have to choose to corespond to Gods Grace Jn 15:1
 

Enoch111

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Man is saved through faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone.
Correct. Salvation (justification) is solely by grace through faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption. Too many Christians have never grasped what justification is.

The verse quoted from Philippians 1:29 states that those who believe will also be subjected to suffering for the sake of Christ. This alludes to the persecution of Christians which has continued since the first century.
 
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theefaith

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The point being that it is an evil when we suffer for Jesus' sake.

Now, read 2 Thessalonians 3:3 (kjv); and consider that there are seasons in life and that this is how we reconcile the contrast between that verse and Philippians 1:29.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall loseit: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Revelation 12:11
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death
 
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historyb

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mid grace can make faith effective efficacious why can’t grace make works effective and efficacious?

Titus 3:14

Exactly. To some evangelicals and Protestants though they think along one line anything else they shun. As St. Paul said "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" not assume as some evangelicals do that one is automatically in
 

Heart2Soul

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still an act of the will choose to believe
You have to choose to corespond to Gods Grace Jn 15:1
God's Grace is what follows as a result of our faith to believe on Him and that Jesus is His son. His Grace is sufficient to cover our sins.
It is His Love and Mercy that moves Him to desire all be saved and that none should perish.
I think too many confuse and interchange mercy with grace....total different meanings.
Their is no effort on our part to correspond to His Grace....it is a gift.
 

Prayer Warrior

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God's Grace is what follows as a result of our faith to believe on Him and that Jesus is His son. His Grace is sufficient to cover our sins.
It is His Love and Mercy that moves Him to desire all be saved and that none should perish.
I think too many confuse and interchange mercy with grace....total different meanings.
Their is no effort on our part to correspond to His Grace....it is a gift.
Years ago during a very tough trial, God showed me that His grace is His saving and sustaining power.

We are saved by grace (His saving power) and we are sustained by grace so that we can live the Christian life--walk by His Spirit.
 

theefaith

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God's Grace is what follows as a result of our faith to believe on Him and that Jesus is His son. His Grace is sufficient to cover our sins.
It is His Love and Mercy that moves Him to desire all be saved and that none should perish.
I think too many confuse and interchange mercy with grace....total different meanings.
Their is no effort on our part to correspond to His Grace....it is a gift.

then all are saved?