Does ALL sins include "Past, Present and Future" sins?

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CharismaticLady

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This is another of those unscriptural false doctrines that I find in the modern church regarding sins of lawlessness. (Unintentional trespasses are another issue altogether, and are not covered in this post.)

Scripture is clear that when we come to Christ and He fills us with His Spirit He cleanses us of all unrighteousness. And Peter clarifies further that is only all unrighteousness up to that point when He first cleanses us. Don't you know what the rebirth is about? We are partakers of the divine nature of God that cannot sin. Another argument I've heard is that 1 John 3:9 means practice sins (meaning they will once in a while, just not as a habit), but the second half of the verse verifies it is even commit once. If you cannot sin, you can't do it even once.

1 John 3:9 "Whoever has been born of God does not (commit or practice?) sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. (What about cannot don't they understand?)

2 Peter 1:2-11
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
 

Michiah-Imla

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This is another of those unscriptural false doctrines that I find in the modern church regarding sins of lawlessness. (Unintentional trespasses are another issue altogether, and are not covered in this post.)

Scripture is clear that when we come to Christ and He fills us with His Spirit He cleanses us of all unrighteousness. And Peter clarifies further that is only all unrighteousness up to that point when He first cleanses us. Don't you know what the rebirth is about? We are partakers of the divine nature of God that cannot sin. Another argument I've heard is that 1 John 3:9 means practice sins (meaning they will once in a while, just not as a habit), but the second half of the verse verifies it is even commit once. If you cannot sin, you can't do it even once.

1 John 3:9 "Whoever has been born of God does not (commit or practice?) sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. (What about cannot don't they understand?)

2 Peter 1:2-11
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Very good post according to truth.

Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
 

Randy Kluth

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This is another of those unscriptural false doctrines that I find in the modern church regarding sins of lawlessness. (Unintentional trespasses are another issue altogether, and are not covered in this post.)

In my view "unintentional sins" is not the exact equivalent of "conscious and willful sins" but rather of "rebellious and defiant sin to the nth degree." In other words, "intentional sins" are a choice to reject not just God but also His atonement for sin. But we can deal with this elsewhere.

Scripture is clear that when we come to Christ and He fills us with His Spirit He cleanses us of all unrighteousness. And Peter clarifies further that is only all unrighteousness up to that point when He first cleanses us. Don't you know what the rebirth is about?

I believe that when Christ saves us, he forgives *the elect* past, present, and future. But when he embraces those who only partly accept Him, they are forgiven only for sins that they repent of, and cannot be forgiven for things they will do in the future and won't repent of. It's a little different from your position.

We are partakers of the divine nature of God that cannot sin. Another argument I've heard is that 1 John 3:9 means practice sins (meaning they will once in a while, just not as a habit), but the second half of the verse verifies it is even commit once. If you cannot sin, you can't do it even once.

1 John 3:9 "Whoever has been born of God does not (commit or practice?) sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. (What about cannot don't they understand?

That is indeed the whole argument. I was thrown off by this years ago when I actually memorized 1 John--I had to wonder how this takes place, that Christians don't sin at all?

Well obviously, Christians do sin. And earlier in the same letter John makes it clear that *all* Christians have sin in them and do sin at times. They have the sin nature, and even in the midst of their righteousness they need cleansing.

So I do think that John is showing that genuine Christians make a habit of preferring righteousness to their own sin nature. They not only prefer it, but the propensity is to do righteousness regularly. Otherwise, John is contradicting himself.

2 Peter 1:2-11
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

For me, "stumbling" is here describing a complete falling away from Christ. It doesn't have to do with Christians sinning at times, and nothing to do with the fact they need cleansing of their contaminated fleshly natures. The objective of Christianity is to remain with God forever, and to never fall away. This doesn't address the idea of Christian imperfection.
 

Michiah-Imla

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Well obviously, Christians do sin.

Not according to scripture:

1 John 3:9-10
Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin... and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil

Furthermore this is how one can determine if they are children of God or children of the devil according to the word of God.
 

CharismaticLady

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In my view "unintentional sins" is not the exact equivalent of "conscious and willful sins" but rather of "rebellious and defiant sin to the nth degree." In other words, "intentional sins" are a choice to reject not just God but also His atonement for sin. But we can deal with this elsewhere.

The way you have worded this it seems you believe unintentional sins are "rebellious and defiant sin to the nth degree." Did I understand you correctly? To me, an unintentional sin would be like to hurt someone unintentionally, like forgetting your anniversary. It can break communion with your spouse, and it needs to be reconciled. Other trespasses can be completely unknown, and you never know that someone was hurt by a perceived slight. And Matthew tells us that the way these trespasses are forgiven is to be willing to forgive those who we perceive trespass against us. Holding grudges is not of God. Our forgiving others is a command.

Leviticus 5:15
“If anyone sins by unintentionally defiling what is holy, then he shall bring a ram without defect, worth whatever fine you charge against him, as his guilt offering to the Lord.

To bring it home, there are scriptures that are very clear and reflect the holiness of God. And there are Christians on these forums that mock the people who believe them, breaking communion with brethren. Understandably this cannot be helped, as we are all passionate as to what we believe, and it is not against God, but each other. These differences of opinion can turn into trespasses. I am not the only one at fault. But I must forgive others, so these trespasses that I've committed will be forgiven.

I believe that when Christ saves us, he forgives *the elect* past, present, and future. But when he embraces those who only partly accept Him, they are forgiven only for sins that they repent of, and cannot be forgiven for things they will do in the future and won't repent of. It's a little different from your position.

What you are describing are those in Matthew 7:21-23.

That is indeed the whole argument. I was thrown off by this years ago when I actually memorized 1 John--I had to wonder how this takes place, that Christians don't sin at all?

Well obviously, Christians do sin. And earlier in the same letter John makes it clear that *all* Christians have sin in them and do sin at times. They have the sin nature, and even in the midst of their righteousness they need cleansing.

So I do think that John is showing that genuine Christians make a habit of preferring righteousness to their own sin nature. They not only prefer it, but the propensity is to do righteousness regularly. Otherwise, John is contradicting himself.

How do they choose righteousness with a sin nature intact. Doesn't the struggle of Romans 7:14-23 show us that we of ourselves cannot always choose righteousness? It is against our nature.

Warning: this is a trick question. ;)

For me, "stumbling" is here describing a complete falling away from Christ. It doesn't have to do with Christians sinning at times, and nothing to do with the fact they need cleansing of their contaminated fleshly natures. The objective of Christianity is to remain with God forever, and to never fall away. This doesn't address the idea of Christian imperfection.

Because verse 9 is after 5-7, I believe the stumbling has to do with both sin and failure to grow in the fruit of the Spirit.
 

Randy Kluth

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The way you have worded this it seems you believe unintentional sins are "rebellious and defiant sin to the nth degree." Did I understand you correctly? To me, an unintentional sin would be like to hurt someone unintentionally, like forgetting your anniversary. It can break communion with your spouse, and it needs to be reconciled. Other trespasses can be completely unknown, and you never know that someone was hurt by a perceived slight. And Matthew tells us that the way these trespasses are forgiven is to be willing to forgive those who we perceive trespass against us. Holding grudges is not of God. Our forgiving others is a command.

Leviticus 5:15
“If anyone sins by unintentionally defiling what is holy, then he shall bring a ram without defect, worth whatever fine you charge against him, as his guilt offering to the Lord.

To bring it home, there are scriptures that are very clear and reflect the holiness of God. And there are Christians on these forums that mock the people who believe them, breaking communion with brethren. Understandably this cannot be helped, as we are all passionate as to what we believe, and it is not against God, but each other. These differences of opinion can turn into trespasses. I am not the only one at fault. But I must forgive others, so these trespasses that I've committed will be forgiven.

Of course we are forgiven when we repent, confess our sins, and determine to go in the right direction! That's the whole point, that intentional sins do not refer to conscious sins, which we *all* do!

So my thought is that the Scriptures are referring to those who actually consciously deny God's plan for atoning for sin. They do not repent. If they offer sacrifices at all, it is not enough if those sacrifices are not even being met with genuine repentance. Therefore, witting sin actually refers to the conscious sense of rejecting true repentance and rejecting the true meaning of atonement, which involves repentance. That cannot be forgiven because the basis for forgiveness--the atonement, is itself being rejected.

What you are describing are those in Matthew 7:21-23.

Yes.

How do they choose righteousness with a sin nature intact. Doesn't the struggle of Romans 7:14-23 show us that we of ourselves cannot always choose righteousness? It is against our nature.

We have 2 natures, the righteous nature that has been created within us by the word of God, and the Sin Nature, which is in our carnal being, ie in our independent living. Certainly we can act, by the coercion of our Sin Nature, to act opposite to our good nature created in Christ. We will always do it, at least in small ways, as long as we are in these mortal bodies. But we can choose to walk a path of righteousness. We can choose to "overcome."

Warning: this is a trick question. ;)
Because verse 9 is after 5-7, I believe the stumbling has to do with both sin and failure to grow in the fruit of the Spirit.

Peter himself had backslidden. He had "stumbled." So clearly, he was not saying that Christians could not backslide. He was warning about the kind of "stumbling" in which one completely walks away, and never returns. Clearly, Christians can fall. But they can also rise again.
 
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Randy Kluth

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Not according to scripture:

1 John 3:9-10
Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin... and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil

Furthermore this is how one can determine if they are children of God or children of the devil according to the word of God.

The same guy who wrote that you're a liar if you claim you're without sin wrote that we have a nature that doesn't sin. The fact is, our new nature never wants to sin. But we don't always walk by that nature because we still live in carnal bodies, infected with sin. We cannot avoid some sin even as we walk in righteousness. That's also what John said.
 

CharismaticLady

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Of course we are forgiven when we repent, confess our sins, and determine to go in the right direction! That's the whole point, that intentional sins do not refer to conscious sins, which we *all* do!

So my thought is that the Scriptures are referring to those who actually consciously deny God's plan for atoning for sin. They do not repent. If they offer sacrifices at all, it is not enough if those sacrifices are not even being met with genuine repentance. Therefore, witting sin actually refers to the conscious sense of rejecting true repentance and rejecting the true meaning of atonement, which involves repentance. That cannot be forgiven because the basis for forgiveness--the atonement, is itself being rejected.

I was talking about those professing to being Christians.

Peter himself had backslidden. He had "stumbled." So clearly, he was not saying that Christians could not backslide. He was warning about the kind of "stumbling" in which one completely walks away, and never returns. Clearly, Christians can fall. But they can also rise again.

When had Peter backslid after Pentecost? Before, yes; he didn't have the indwelling Holy Spirit.
 

Nancy

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Of course we are forgiven when we repent, confess our sins, and determine to go in the right direction! That's the whole point, that intentional sins do not refer to conscious sins, which we *all* do!

So my thought is that the Scriptures are referring to those who actually consciously deny God's plan for atoning for sin. They do not repent. If they offer sacrifices at all, it is not enough if those sacrifices are not even being met with genuine repentance. Therefore, witting sin actually refers to the conscious sense of rejecting true repentance and rejecting the true meaning of atonement, which involves repentance. That cannot be forgiven because the basis for forgiveness--the atonement, is itself being rejected.



Yes.



We have 2 natures, the righteous nature that has been created within us by the word of God, and the Sin Nature, which is in our carnal being, ie in our independent living. Certainly we can act, by the coercion of our Sin Nature, to act opposite to our good nature created in Christ. We will always do it, at least in small ways, as long as we are in these mortal bodies. But we can choose to walk a path of righteousness. We can choose to "overcome."



Peter himself had backslidden. He had "stumbled." So clearly, he was not saying that Christians could not backslide. He was warning about the kind of "stumbling" in which one completely walks away, and never returns. Clearly, Christians can fall. But they can also rise again.

"16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief."
Proverbs 24:16-18
 

justbyfaith

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In regards to and in agreement with the OP:

Rom 3:25, Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
 
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justbyfaith

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A man receives new life when he repents; even when he turns away from his wickedness.

Eze 33:11, Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Eze 33:12, Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
Eze 33:13, When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
Eze 33:14, Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
Eze 33:15, If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Eze 33:16, None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.
Eze 33:17, Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal.
Eze 33:18, When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.
Eze 33:19, But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.
Eze 33:20, Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. O ye house of Israel, I will judge you every one after his ways.
 

BloodBought 1953

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A man receives new life when he repents; even when he turns away from his wickedness.

Eze 33:11, Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Eze 33:12, Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
Eze 33:13, When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
Eze 33:14, Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
Eze 33:15, If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Eze 33:16, None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.
Eze 33:17, Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal.
Eze 33:18, When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.
Eze 33:19, But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.
Eze 33:20, Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. O ye house of Israel, I will judge you every one after his ways.

You ever hear Of a thing called” The Cross?” Ever hear of the NEW Covenant Of Grace ? Ever hear if the “ Age Of Grace” in which we now live ? It would appear not.I am not interested in your religion of “ Juda-Anity” , the Mongrel Religion which consists of keeping one foot in Grace and the other foot in Law......Law cancels the Grace That Saves you....You need to stop stressing it....The Age Of The Law is over....that would be a good thing because Jesus said It was “ weak and useless”..... it was so “ powerless to Save”, He threw it out and replaced it with something better....The Gospel. Discover it in 1Cor15:1-4 ....Christians are “ DEAD to the Law”...... Are you in favor of seeing Sin INCREASE ? Of course not ! So shut up about it please , and start preaching God's Cure for Sin——- Grace....the total forgiveness of ALL sins.....it's the impetus for actually LIVING a Godly life.....
 
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CharismaticLady

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.it's the impetus for actually LIVING a Godly life.....

And how is that? Not by your definition of grace it isn't! The true definition of grace, yes, but not by your definition of lawlessness. And I'm not talking about the Law of Moses. We are not under that.

Have you ever hear of the righteous requirements of the Law? That is what we are under. Guess how we fulfill them.
 
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brightfame52

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Does ALL sins include "Past, Present and Future" sins?

Yes indeed. Those who Christ died for have been forgiven of all their sins, past present and future! They will never have sin imputed to them.
 

CharismaticLady

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Yes indeed. Those who Christ died for have been forgiven of all their sins, past present and future! They will never have sin imputed to them.

And how is that not a license to sin? Can you not see that diabolical belief plays right into the devils hand? It is a false doctrine. NO WHERE in scripture do you see anything but the cleansing of ALL your past sins. 2 Peter 1:9. You've sought out teachers who play to what you want to hear, but not the truth of holiness. For without holiness, no man shall see God. Hebrews 12:14.

But the true gospel of Christ makes it easy to be holy. If you ever want to go to heaven, ask me what Christ provides for us to be holy.
 
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justbyfaith

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You ever hear Of a thing called” The Cross?” Ever hear of the NEW Covenant Of Grace ? Ever hear if the “ Age Of Grace” in which we now live ? It would appear not.I am not interested in your religion of “ Juda-Anity” , the Mongrel Religion which consists of keeping one foot in Grace and the other foot in Law......Law cancels the Grace That Saves you....You need to stop stressing it....The Age Of The Law is over....that would be a good thing because Jesus said It was “ weak and useless”..... it was so “ powerless to Save”, He threw it out and replaced it with something better....The Gospel. Discover it in 1Cor15:1-4 ....Christians are “ DEAD to the Law”...... Are you in favor of seeing Sin INCREASE ? Of course not ! So shut up about it please , and start preaching God's Cure for Sin——- Grace....the total forgiveness of ALL sins.....it's the impetus for actually LIVING a Godly life.....

When Jesus came, He came full of grace and truth (John 1:14).

And even He said,

Mat 5:20, For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
 

justbyfaith

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What happened at the Cross? Jesus shed his blood.

Jesus' blood does not only justify (as per Romans 5:9)...it also sanctifies (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29) and cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:7).

Now what is your belief about the blood, @Blood Bought 1953?

Answer me this:

Can the blood, when it is applied, do one thing (justify) and also not do the other (sanctify and cleanse)?

Will not the blood of Jesus perform every function that it has whenever it is applied to us?
 

brightfame52

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And how is that not a license to sin? Can you not see that diabolical belief plays right into the devils hand? It is a false doctrine. NO WHERE in scripture do you see anything but the cleansing of ALL your past sins. 2 Peter 1:9. You've sought out teachers who play to what you want to hear, but not the truth of holiness. For without holiness, no man shall see God. Hebrews 12:14.

But the true gospel of Christ makes it easy to be holy. If you ever want to go to heaven, ask me what Christ provides for us to be holy.
A license to sin. Men are sinners naturally. You don't need a license to do what comes naturally. God justified the ungodly by grace. The point is what God has done through Christ. He forgave all sins and cleanses from all sin.Col 2:13

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

And for the forgiven God does not imputed sin Ron 4:7-8

Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
 
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