Not faith alone?

brightfame52 · Oct 30, 2020

Jennifera198337 said:
We all were enemies. We all are still enemies in sin. Through belief we get accepted of God and Christ. To be reconcile is to connect thru God after that belief. Build a relationship with him and stuff. Connect with him. Go back to the father. Talk to him. Abide. Reconcile means to turn back to God, obedience doesn't stop after the belief. There's still are conditions after the belief. To believe is to just accept Christ.

You are not getting it. What condition were they in when they were reconciled to God? And How were they reconciled to God? According to Rom 5 10

Michiah-Imla · Oct 30, 2020

mailmandan said:
baptism is regularly associated with conversion and salvation, rather than absolutely required for salvation.

Baptism was commanded:

Acts 10:48 KJV
And [Peter] commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

It is connected to a believer’s death to sin.

Romans 6:1-3 KJV
[1] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? [2] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? [3] Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Jennifera198337 · Oct 30, 2020

brightfame52 said:
You are not getting it. What condition were they in when they were reconciled to God? And How were they reconciled to God? According to Rom 5 10

We are turned back to God thru the holy spirit and Jesus. When you have Jesus you have the father. Remember Jesus said when you see him you see the father. Just talk to God like you would the son that is if you believe Jesus is the son of God and God is the father. We are still in the same condition when receiving Christ. That's why we cry Abba Father. We are still sinners in need of a savior. We can now cast our cares on God. Because we believe and know he exist. God can cleanse us and stray us away from sin. Etc.

Jennifera198337 · Oct 30, 2020

Michiah-Imla said:
Baptism was commanded:

Acts 10:48 KJV
And [Peter] commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

It is connected to a believer’s death to sin.

Romans 6:1-3 KJV
[1] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? [2] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? [3] Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

That's baptism thru God's spirit only. We are the body of Christ. The holy spirit connects us all to Christ in one body. Etc. When we became believers we were on that cross with him since he died for us. It's like predestination.

brightfame52 · Oct 30, 2020

Jennifera198337 said:
We are turned back to God thru the holy spirit and Jesus. When you have Jesus you have the father. Remember Jesus said when you see him you see the father. Just talk to God like you would the son that is if you believe Jesus is the son of God and God is the father. We are still in the same condition when receiving Christ. That's why we cry Abba Father. We are still sinners in need of a savior. We can now cast our cares on God. Because we believe and know he exist. God can cleanse us and stray us away from sin. Etc.

Im sorry, you are not getting it.

Ferris Bueller · Oct 30, 2020

justbyfaith said:
Again, these are not works of the law...these are not doing what is in violation of the law.

Apparently, you've never read the law. You can thank the corrupted church for our ignorance of the law.

Ferris Bueller · Oct 30, 2020

justbyfaith said:
Not doing something, I would not count as a work.

If we bear the fruit of the Spirit, there is no law against such fruit.

But not violating the law in this instance does not count as a work but as fruit.

Like I say, you just don't know the law.

theefaith · Oct 30, 2020

Jennifera198337 said:
That just means not to give up on your faith. Because by faith all things are possible and thru God we do all things with faith even if it means going thru dire circumstances.

I thought suffer means pain, and virtue, patient suffering,
Luke 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Christ really carried His cross now we must participate in His sufferings, it is not finished

amadeus · Oct 30, 2020

kcnalp said:
I have no problem believing Jesus was sinless. The Bible clearly says so!

I have a problem with the self righteous folks who declare themselves to be sinless! Ain't Scripture!

It would usually be best if a person did not declare himself to be sinless, but simply keep his belief to himself. Similarly it may be best for any who doubt that a person is sinless to remain silent rather than pressing or accusing the person. If we are flawed, who are we to stand in judgment of another? I certainly am flawed so much of the time I find that silence really is golden! I wish at times I would learn to keep my own mouth shut.

"Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding." Prov 17:28

theefaith · Oct 30, 2020

mailmandan said:
Salvation through faith in Christ alone “apart from works” is not meaningless. It’s scripture. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) Not to be confused with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains “alone“ - “barren of works.” (James 2:14-17)

In regards to 1 Corinthians 13, Paul is using hyperbole about understanding ALL mysteries and ALL knowledge and having faith that can move mountains yet having NO love at all to express the importance of love. Faith works through love (Galatians 5:6) but we are saved through faith, not faith + love. Love is the greater quality of the three because God is love and it outlasts them all. Long after faith and hope are no longer necessary, love will still be the governing principle that controls all that God and his redeemed people are and do. We won't need faith and hope in heaven. In 1 Corinthians 13:13, Paul is not teaching that even if our faith is genuine that our faith cannot save us without producing "enough" love. Paul is stressing the importance of love, not teaching that faith is insufficient to save us without our best efforts to love.

Paul is stressing that love is the greater quality of the three because God is love and it outlasts them all. Long after the "evidence of things not seen" are now seen (Hebrews 11:1) once we are in the presence of the Lord and we are no longer looking for the "blessed hope" - (expectation of what is sure) and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ (Titus 2:13) because He has appeared and believers will be with Him forever, love will still be the principle that governs all that God and his saints are and do throughout eternity in the new heaven and new earth. So Paul is not teaching that we are saved by faith "plus acts of love/works." All genuine BELIEVERS love Christ. Why? Because we have received the love of God in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us (Romans 5:5) when we believed the gospel (Ephesians 1:13). We love Him because He first loved us (1 John 4:19).

Paul says I must love! It never says anywhere “faith alone” faith yes! Faith and hope and love! Faith and baptism! Mk 16:16 faith and patience (suffering)

1 Thessalonians 1:3
Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2 Thessalonians 1:4
So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience andfaith in all your persecutions andtribulations that ye endure:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
1 Timothy 6:11
But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patienceinherit the promises.

theefaith · Oct 30, 2020

mailmandan said:
No it's not and it's unbelievers who reject Him. You need to stop confusing salvation through faith which trusts in Christ alone for salvation (Ephesians 2:8,9) with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone - "barren of works." (James 2:14)

Acts 10:43 - All the prophets testify of Him, that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.

Romans 3:24 - being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

Excellent article on Acts 22:16 - WHAT IS TRUTH: Acts 22:16--Baptism Essential for Salvation?

In regards to Romans 6:3, "baptized into Christ Jesus" you assume means to be water baptized into the body of Christ, but this is erroneous. Believers are Spirit baptized (and not water baptized) into the body of Christ. (1 Corinthians 12:13) Just as 1 Corinthians 10:2 says that all (the Israelites) were "baptized into Moses" in the cloud and in the sea, but this does not mean that the Israelites were literally water baptized into the body of Moses, but in regards to "identification" and it's the same with water baptism. Before mentioning baptism in chapter 6, Paul had repeatedly emphasized that FAITH, not baptism is the instrumental cause of salvation/justification (Romans 1:16, 3:22-30; 4:4-6, 13; 5:1). That is when the old man was put to death and united in the likeness of His death, which water baptism symbolizes and pictures. Righteousness is "imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised up because of our justification" (Romans 4:24,25).

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. This is Spirit baptism, not water baptism.

Galatians 3:26 - For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus (Period.) *Not through faith and water baptism. Also read John 1:12 - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name. *Received Him, given the right to become children of God, through believing in His name, not through water baptism.

Galatians 3:27 - For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on/clothed yourself with Christ. The Greek word for "put on" is" enduo" and means to enclose oneself in, as when one "puts on" clothes or armor or some other item. Involved in this is the idea of "imitation" and "identification." Just as 1 Corinthians 10:2 says that all (the Israelites) were "baptized into Moses" in the cloud and in the sea, but this does not mean they were literally water baptized into the body of Moses, as I already explained to you.

"Let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light...put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof" (Romans 13:12,14). This exhortation is written to Christians (those already saved). Evidently then, baptism is not the only way to "put on" Christ. To "put on" Christ is to conform to Him, imitate Him. So it is in baptism; we "put on" Christ, conforming to Him in the ordinance that declares Him to be our Savior. So if "put on" Christ means saved through water baptism, apparently we are not saved yet. We must also "put on" Christ by making no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts in order to be saved as well (Romans 13:14). Right? NO. This exhortation is to those ALREADY SAVED.

Paul wrote "put off the old man," and "put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness." (Ephesians 4:22,24) And, "put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil." (Ephesians 6:11) The allusion is to putting off old clothes and putting on new ones. One does not put on a uniform in order to become a soldier. Simply putting on a soldier's uniform does not make one become a soldier. Once one is made a soldier one is then able to put on and wear the uniform that distinguishes or marks them as a soldier. Putting on a judge's robe does not, in itself, make anyone become a "judge." But, one who has been made a judge is qualified to put on "judicial robes" and thus declare their qualifications.

So too with being water baptized, the new believer/Christian puts on robes for which they has previously been qualified to wear. The putting on of Christ is not what makes one become a Christian, but one which becomes a token of it, as in Romans 13:14. If one puts on the clothes of a Christian, in water baptism, without first becoming a Christian (child of God through faith), then one becomes an imposter, and is declaring, in baptism, to be what they are not.

There are a number of alleged prooftexts which are often cited to prove that the Bible makes baptism mandatory for salvation. Some of the most common such proof texts are Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, John 3:5, Acts 22:16; Romans 6:3-4, and 1 Peter 3:21. A careful examination of each of these texts in context will show that none of them prove that baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation, though they do prove that baptism was an assumed initiatory response to the gospel of salvation. In other words, these texts prove only that baptism is regularly associated with conversion and salvation, rather than absolutely required for salvation.

Not what Jesus said Mk 16:16 faith and baptism jn 3:5 water and the spirit and it’s what the church has taught for 2000 yrs
CYRIL OF JERUSALEM
“If any man does not receive baptism, he does not have salvation.

St. AUGUSTINE
“There are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptism, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance; yet God does not forgive sins except to the baptized” (Sermons to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15 [A.D. 395]).

theefaith · Oct 30, 2020

mailmandan said:
No it's not and it's unbelievers who reject Him. You need to stop confusing salvation through faith which trusts in Christ alone for salvation (Ephesians 2:8,9) with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone - "barren of works." (James 2:14)

Acts 10:43 - All the prophets testify of Him, that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.

Romans 3:24 - being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

Excellent article on Acts 22:16 - WHAT IS TRUTH: Acts 22:16--Baptism Essential for Salvation?

In regards to Romans 6:3, "baptized into Christ Jesus" you assume means to be water baptized into the body of Christ, but this is erroneous. Believers are Spirit baptized (and not water baptized) into the body of Christ. (1 Corinthians 12:13) Just as 1 Corinthians 10:2 says that all (the Israelites) were "baptized into Moses" in the cloud and in the sea, but this does not mean that the Israelites were literally water baptized into the body of Moses, but in regards to "identification" and it's the same with water baptism. Before mentioning baptism in chapter 6, Paul had repeatedly emphasized that FAITH, not baptism is the instrumental cause of salvation/justification (Romans 1:16, 3:22-30; 4:4-6, 13; 5:1). That is when the old man was put to death and united in the likeness of His death, which water baptism symbolizes and pictures. Righteousness is "imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised up because of our justification" (Romans 4:24,25).

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. This is Spirit baptism, not water baptism.

Galatians 3:26 - For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus (Period.) *Not through faith and water baptism. Also read John 1:12 - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name. *Received Him, given the right to become children of God, through believing in His name, not through water baptism.

Galatians 3:27 - For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on/clothed yourself with Christ. The Greek word for "put on" is" enduo" and means to enclose oneself in, as when one "puts on" clothes or armor or some other item. Involved in this is the idea of "imitation" and "identification." Just as 1 Corinthians 10:2 says that all (the Israelites) were "baptized into Moses" in the cloud and in the sea, but this does not mean they were literally water baptized into the body of Moses, as I already explained to you.

"Let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light...put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof" (Romans 13:12,14). This exhortation is written to Christians (those already saved). Evidently then, baptism is not the only way to "put on" Christ. To "put on" Christ is to conform to Him, imitate Him. So it is in baptism; we "put on" Christ, conforming to Him in the ordinance that declares Him to be our Savior. So if "put on" Christ means saved through water baptism, apparently we are not saved yet. We must also "put on" Christ by making no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts in order to be saved as well (Romans 13:14). Right? NO. This exhortation is to those ALREADY SAVED.

Paul wrote "put off the old man," and "put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness." (Ephesians 4:22,24) And, "put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil." (Ephesians 6:11) The allusion is to putting off old clothes and putting on new ones. One does not put on a uniform in order to become a soldier. Simply putting on a soldier's uniform does not make one become a soldier. Once one is made a soldier one is then able to put on and wear the uniform that distinguishes or marks them as a soldier. Putting on a judge's robe does not, in itself, make anyone become a "judge." But, one who has been made a judge is qualified to put on "judicial robes" and thus declare their qualifications.

So too with being water baptized, the new believer/Christian puts on robes for which they has previously been qualified to wear. The putting on of Christ is not what makes one become a Christian, but one which becomes a token of it, as in Romans 13:14. If one puts on the clothes of a Christian, in water baptism, without first becoming a Christian (child of God through faith), then one becomes an imposter, and is declaring, in baptism, to be what they are not.

There are a number of alleged prooftexts which are often cited to prove that the Bible makes baptism mandatory for salvation. Some of the most common such proof texts are Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, John 3:5, Acts 22:16; Romans 6:3-4, and 1 Peter 3:21. A careful examination of each of these texts in context will show that none of them prove that baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation, though they do prove that baptism was an assumed initiatory response to the gospel of salvation. In other words, these texts prove only that baptism is regularly associated with conversion and salvation, rather than absolutely required for salvation.

mailmandan said:
No it's not and it's unbelievers who reject Him. You need to stop confusing salvation through faith which trusts in Christ alone for salvation (Ephesians 2:8,9) with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone - "barren of works." (James 2:14)

Acts 10:43 - All the prophets testify of Him, that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.

Romans 3:24 - being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

Excellent article on Acts 22:16 - WHAT IS TRUTH: Acts 22:16--Baptism Essential for Salvation?

In regards to Romans 6:3, "baptized into Christ Jesus" you assume means to be water baptized into the body of Christ, but this is erroneous. Believers are Spirit baptized (and not water baptized) into the body of Christ. (1

There are a number of alleged prooftexts which are often cited to prove that the Bible makes baptism mandatory for salvation. Some of the most common such proof texts are Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, John 3:5, Acts 22:16; Romans 6:3-4, and 1 Peter 3:21. A careful examination of each of these texts in context will show that none of them prove that baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation, though they do prove that baptism was an assumed initiatory response to the gospel of salvation. In other words, these texts prove only that baptism is regularly associated with conversion and salvation, rather than absolutely required for salvation.

How can you become a disciple by faith alone?

Matt 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

John 4:4 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,

Michiah-Imla · Oct 30, 2020

amadeus said:
It would usually be best if a person did not declare himself to be sinless,

As soon as you quote 1 John 3:6, or 1 John 3:9, or 1 John 5:18 to some folks, instead of standing convicted by the word, they dote about the question, “do you sin?” What is the big deal with sinlessness? The Bible is a condemnation against sinners with very detailed accounts of the consequences of sin.

Christ came to take sin away! Not to provide a vehicle for it!

Look, Jesus told at least two people point blank, sin no more (John 5:14, John 8:11).

And the scripture is clear what we should think of those who would teach contrary to what Jesus taught:

1 Timothy 6:3-5 KJV
[3] If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; [4] He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, [5] Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

justbyfaith · Oct 30, 2020

kcnalp said:
Then why don't you obey it?

No one keeps the law (Galatians 6:13).

The law is given as a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24), showing mankind that he is a sinner in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20); thus converting his soul (Psalms 19:7 (kjv)).

kcnalp said:
So it's ok for YOU to "quote half a verse"?

What half verse did I quote?

kcnalp said:
Why don't you quote the Scriptures?

My specific style of ministry is not to quote the holy scriptures but to reference them for the most part. In this way I am concealing knowledge (Proverbs 12:23) while also dispersing it (Proverbs 15:7).

brightfame52 said:
You certainly have not understood Rom 5:19 according to Rom 5 19 how were they made righteous?

My interpreatation (utilizing Galatians 2:20) is not invalid.

Have you never read of the biblical hermeneutic that is given to us in 1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv)?

mailmandan said:
Believers are Spirit baptized (and not water baptized) into the body of Christ.

The first mention of baptism in holy scripture has John the Baptist baptizing people in the river Jordan (in water!).

Therefore when the Bible speaks of baptism, it is most often speaking of water baptism.

And also, in Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39, we are Spirit baptized as the direct result of water baptism...the Holy Ghost is promised under the condition that you repent and are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

mailmandan said:
Galatians 3:27 - For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on/clothed yourself with Christ. The Greek word for "put on" is" enduo" and means to enclose oneself in, as when one "puts on" clothes or armor or some other item. Involved in this is the idea of "imitation" and "identification." Just as 1 Corinthians 10:2 says that all (the Israelites) were "baptized into Moses" in the cloud and in the sea, but this does not mean they were literally water baptized into the body of Moses, as I already explained to you.

Going through every scripture that relates to baptism and then decimating its message to you, impaho, is merely an attempt to deny a basic teaching of holy scripture. You can do that with just about any scriptural teaching...read the verse, and then think of biblical arguments why that verse is not true or doesn't apply to you.

I think that this is why Paul, in 2 Corinthians 10:3-4, spoke of the fact that arguments, imaginations, ans every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, are all strongholds that are decimated by the weapons pf our warfare which are not carnal but mighty in God for the pulling down of strongholds.

This is not to say that we decimate the message of scripture with such things as prayer. It is to say that such things as prayer can decimate the arguments that people utilize against the message of holy scripture.

Jennifera198337 said:
We are still sinners in need of a savior.

We are still sinners in the sense that we all have indwelling sin (1 John 1:8).

However, we are not sinners any longer in that we don't any longer make a practice of sinning (1 John 3:9, 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17).

The element of sin has been rendered dead within us (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say or authority over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).

Ferris Bueller said:
Apparently, you've never read the law. You can thank the corrupted church for our ignorance of the law.

Ferris Bueller said:
Like I say, you just don't know the law.

While I don't make it a point to read through the OT very often...(I read through it more slowly than the NT...about twice every three years), I have read the OT enough to know what the law is and to know the law.

I also consider that Jesus gave His moral teaching on the true meaning of the law in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:1-8:4) and the Sermon on the Plain (Luke 6:20-49). And I read those sermons almost every day.

Jennifera198337 · Oct 30, 2020

brightfame52 said:
Im sorry, you are not getting it.

Yes I do. Like I said we are all sinners until made perfect and holy

Jennifera198337 · Oct 30, 2020

Being holy is a gift. It's what gets us in heaven. Holiness is not just purity. It's a symbol of righteousness and obedience

Jennifera198337 · Oct 30, 2020

justbyfaith said:
No one keeps the law (Galatians 6:13).

The law is given as a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24), showing mankind that he is a sinner in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20); thus converting his soul (Psalms 19:7 (kjv)).

What half verse did I quote?

My specific style of ministry is not to quote the holy scriptures but to reference them for the most part. In this way I am concealing knowledge (Proverbs 12:23) while also dispersing it (Proverbs 15:7).

My interpreatation (utilizing Galatians 2:20) is not invalid.

Have you never read of the biblical hermeneutic that is given to us in 1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv)?

The first mention of baptism in holy scripture has John the Baptist baptizing people in the river Jordan (in water!).

Therefore when the Bible speaks of baptism, it is most often speaking of water baptism.

And also, in Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39, we are Spirit baptized as the direct result of water baptism...the Holy Ghost is promised under the condition that you repent and are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

Going through every scripture that relates to baptism and then decimating its message to you, impaho, is merely an attempt to deny a basic teaching of holy scripture. You can do that with just about any scriptural teaching...read the verse, and then think of biblical arguments why that verse is not true or doesn't apply to you.

I think that this is why Paul, in 2 Corinthians 10:3-4, spoke of the fact that arguments, imaginations, ans every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, are all strongholds that are decimated by the weapons pf our warfare which are not carnal but mighty in God for the pulling down of strongholds.

This is not to say that we decimate the message of scripture with such things as prayer. It is to say that such things as prayer can decimate the arguments that people utilize against the message of holy scripture.

We are still sinners in the sense that we all have indwelling sin (1 John 1:8).

However, we are not sinners any longer in that we don't any longer make a practice of sinning (1 John 3:9, 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17).

The element of sin has been rendered dead within us (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say or authority over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).

While I don't make it a point to read through the OT very often...(I read through it more slowly than the NT...about twice every three years), I have read the OT enough to know what the law is and to know the law.

I also consider that Jesus gave His moral teaching on the true meaning of the law in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:1-8:4) and the Sermon on the Plain (Luke 6:20-49). And I read those sermons almost every day.

Same thing. You mean we aren't under any control of the law. We don't let the law control us. It's a way of thinking and how we think towards God and obedience. Like I said if we love God we will try to obey God as much as possible.

Jennifera198337 · Oct 30, 2020

justbyfaith said:
No one keeps the law (Galatians 6:13).

The law is given as a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24), showing mankind that he is a sinner in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20); thus converting his soul (Psalms 19:7 (kjv)).

What half verse did I quote?

My specific style of ministry is not to quote the holy scriptures but to reference them for the most part. In this way I am concealing knowledge (Proverbs 12:23) while also dispersing it (Proverbs 15:7).

My interpreatation (utilizing Galatians 2:20) is not invalid.

Have you never read of the biblical hermeneutic that is given to us in 1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv)?

The first mention of baptism in holy scripture has John the Baptist baptizing people in the river Jordan (in water!).

Therefore when the Bible speaks of baptism, it is most often speaking of water baptism.

And also, in Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39, we are Spirit baptized as the direct result of water baptism...the Holy Ghost is promised under the condition that you repent and are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

Going through every scripture that relates to baptism and then decimating its message to you, impaho, is merely an attempt to deny a basic teaching of holy scripture. You can do that with just about any scriptural teaching...read the verse, and then think of biblical arguments why that verse is not true or doesn't apply to you.

I think that this is why Paul, in 2 Corinthians 10:3-4, spoke of the fact that arguments, imaginations, ans every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, are all strongholds that are decimated by the weapons pf our warfare which are not carnal but mighty in God for the pulling down of strongholds.

This is not to say that we decimate the message of scripture with such things as prayer. It is to say that such things as prayer can decimate the arguments that people utilize against the message of holy scripture.

We are still sinners in the sense that we all have indwelling sin (1 John 1:8).

However, we are not sinners any longer in that we don't any longer make a practice of sinning (1 John 3:9, 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17).

The element of sin has been rendered dead within us (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say or authority over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).

While I don't make it a point to read through the OT very often...(I read through it more slowly than the NT...about twice every three years), I have read the OT enough to know what the law is and to know the law.

I also consider that Jesus gave His moral teaching on the true meaning of the law in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:1-8:4) and the Sermon on the Plain (Luke 6:20-49). And I read those sermons almost every day.

Same thing. You mean we aren't under any control of the law. We don't let the law control us. It's a way of thinking and how we think towards God and obedience. Like I said if we love God we will try to obey God as much as possible. Because God hates sin and wrong doing. It goes against his character. God is holy. God can only be around holiness..

justbyfaith · Oct 30, 2020

Hi @Jennifera198337,

It should not escape your notice as an avid Bible student that we are not justified through law-keeping (Romans 3:20, Galatians 2:16) .

However, it is also true, to cut to the chase, that if we walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh, the righteousness of the law shall be fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).

Our salvation (our receiving of the Holy Spirit) comes solely through our faith in Jesus Christ (Galatians 3:14, Ephesians 1:13-14).

We then have the love of the Lord shed abroad in our hearts (Romans 5:5); which love is not impractical (1 John 3:17-18); and which love is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4).

My point being that we do not want to put the cart before the horse.

We do not obtain righteousness through keeping the law (Romans 9:30-10:4).

It is not by seeking to obey a set of do's and don'ts that we obtain this righteousness.

We obtain it by believing in Jesus, receiving the Spirit through that faith (Galatians 3:14); and then because we have the Spirit we bear the fruit of the Spirit; against which there is no law (Galatians 5:22-23).

Thus, we have a righteousness of God apart from the law (Romans 3:21) that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21) that it is righteousness indeed.

brightfame52 · Oct 30, 2020

jbf

My interpreatation (utilizing Galatians 2:20) is not invalid.

No. However, lets consider what you said. According to Rom 5:19 how were they made righteous and Christ lived in them ? What was the cause ?

Not faith alone?

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