Does ALL sins include "Past, Present and Future" sins?

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Randy Kluth

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Randy, John the Baptist received the Holy Spirit in the womb! Remember???

For sure. My point was that not all men and women in the OT period or under the Law were carnal people.

Those in the OT that trusted in the Messiah to come, their previous sins were overlooked. Romans 3:25. But because they still had their carnal natures, they struggled to keep the law.

No different from us today, under the NT--we all struggle to keep God's universal moral code for mankind. We also struggle, as Christians, doing what God specifically leads us to do every day. Anybody married knows this, if they have a Christian marriage, or even if they are married and not Christians. It's difficult to serve one another 24-7, to put the other one 1st!

This sounds like only Jews alive when the New Covenant came obtained eternal life. That's crazy. Again, Romans 3:25.

I don't know what you mean? I said that all men and women obtained eternal life only after the cross--only after the NT era was initiated. All those under God's Law were as lost as the rest of mankind, even though they were in covenant with God and blessed by their obedience.

All of mankind was locked up under the curse of death upon sin, and nobody could obtain eternal life until Christ came and died for their sins. And so, Paul talked about the struggle under the Law that men and women in all ages wage. However, under the Law, Israel was unable, in their struggle, to obtain eternal life. By contrast, those in the NT era are able, through Christ, to struggle against sin and obtain, for their efforts, eternal life.

By grace they have been saved. Christ provided the atonement, and we receive it. And in choosing to live in his righteousness we are born again, and no longer have the old works of the flesh counted against us.

So Jesus only came to take away the condemnation for our sins so we can sin freely? Again, that's crazy and obviously a doctrine of demons, and a slap in Jesus' face. John 8:34-36; 1 John 3:5.

No, that's not what I'm saying, and that's what Paul was accused of saying also. The notion of liberation from condemnation does not remove the sin nature from us. The difference is that our righteousness is now recognized by an atonement that leads to eternal life. In the OT era, righteousness counted for something, but had to wait until Christ came to be recognized.

The key word here is *righteousness.* We accept Christ's righteousness as a replacement for our carnal lifestyle. We still commit carnal works in our weakness, but we don't live in them. Having chosen Christ to live at the center of our being, he becomes our driving force in our lives. That's what makes us "born again," I believe.

In the OT period, the saints did similarly, making God their only God, and making His word the driving force for their lives. After all, Jesus mentioned "born again" in an OT context initially.

The difference is that in the NT our new birth results in eternal salvation, whereas in the OT for all Israel's righteousness they still remained under condemnation. They were not less righteous than us--they only had to await Christ's atonement.

The kings and prophets were the only OT people that were anointed with the Holy Spirit.

You are using "anointing" in a very specific way. But if you were to say that the Holy Spirit only used people unless they were leaders, that would be mistaken. All men were given the word of God in their consciences, and all were made to be "like God." This can't happen apart from a work of the Holy Spirit. One did not have to be called to be prophet or king to serve God.

No, you miss the point of the gospel completely. Look at Daniel 9:24, the prophecy of what the Messiah will do. Jesus is not granting eternal life to those who still sin, but those whose DESIRE AND WILL to sin was taken away 1 John 3:5, preventing them from eternal life, for the wages of sin is still death, whether you claim to be a Christian or not.

The "taking away" part has to do with the removal of the curse upon sin, which is death. No saint of God has ever been without sin. No Christian who chooses to live by the righteousness of God does so being outside of a body infected with sin. Even when we live in righteousness, our failures are in evidence. You should know this. We merely need to confess this to be cleansed of it.

Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

I agree with all that, of course. We are called to live in righteousness. We daily have to defeat sin in our lives. In choosing to be righteous, we are prevailing over our sin nature. But no--it does not *eradicate* our sin nature!
 

CharismaticLady

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Still you haven't figured it out yet.
God the Father required the Blood of Jesus, just as much as we do! Without the sacrificial shedding of His Son's blood, the Father would NEVER be able to live within us forever. Thats all He wants to do!!
Jesus is the Lamb OF God! He was God's sacrifice for us, as well as for Himself!!

God's deepest desire is to save each of us from eternal death, which is upon every person! Unfortunately, many do not come to Him through faith in His Son's Finished work, but rather toss His Son aside, by throwing in the Father's face, their own form of sacrifice of attempting in their flesh to be sin-free (self righteous).

It's the same routine as the parable of the "Pharisee and the Publican". They may have started out with faith in Jesus, but now they love the Law more, making themselves to be their own savior, "having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof..." 2 Timothy 3:5

Actually you haven't figured out that it was SIN that separated Adam from God, and therefore us. And the wages of SIN is death. It isn't death that is the main issue, death is the result of SIN. THAT is what Jesus came to do - change our nature to be free from SIN, and that is the reason we can then have eternal life.

Look at the prophecy regarding the reason for the Messiah to come in Daniel 9:24. What is the issue? Death? or Sin?

To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
 

BloodBought 1953

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That's what these guys thought:

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

This is the way I live my Christianity, and I hope someday you come out from under that cloud of false understanding:

21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.


I don’t know what you “live” it SURE ain’t “ Christianity “ ....it sounds more like the popular Mongrel,religion of “Juda Anity” ......That would be Judaism with a little bit of Jesus sprinkled in to sound good.....
Notice that all of those guys that Jesus is about to damn all have one thing in common.....all they speak of is what “ they” did for God.....NO MENTION , NO GRATITUDE , not even an AWARENESS of what Jesus did for them....
They never Trusted in the Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4 to Save them.....That Gospel , the ONLY Gospel , is all about what a Merciful God Did for Wretched,Sinful Men .....NOT what Sinful men did for God...They were eager to be judged by their Works ! Like his Jewish Brothers That Paul knew we're headed for Hell .....they had a Zeal for the Things Of God , But WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE! They Trusted in their OWN Righteousness instead of the Righteousness Of God, which was Trusting in the Perfection Of His Son......Plus Nothing ...
Stand before your Maker some day....Trust in “ Your” pathetic Performance instead of thanking Him for His Perfect Performance On your behalf ,symbolized by the Precious Blood poured out on the Heavenly Mercy Seat and scratch your head in wonderment when you hear those Horrible Words....”Depart From me , I Never knew you!”.....you just never did “ get it” .
Now for old, “ Blood Bought”, He was Wretched from the day he was born until the day he died! Why, he even said that if he ever Met Paul , He would tell Paul to “step aside, there is a New Chief Of Sinners In town!” What In Heaven’s Name will that poor Sinner do when God asks him, “ Why should I let you enter My Kingdom?” Simple .I won’t say a word in my defense. I got nuthin’. What I “will” do is point to that Blood that is on that Heavenly Mercy Seat That I mentioned earlier—- no words are necessary, other than “ which way to the “Marriage Supper Of The Lamb” and “ what’s on the Menu?” Who knew that clinging to the Feet Of Jesus with tears of Thankfulness and Joy could cause one to work up such an appetite? Lol....pass the ketchup ! I hope many if you here join me in that Feast to end all Feasts! Remember how old BB got there , in spite of his rottenness ....He Believed a simple Song—-“ NOTHING But The Blood Of JESUS”..... Turned out it was the Truth! God bless.....

.
 

CharismaticLady

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For sure. My point was that not all men and women in the OT period or under the Law were carnal people.

And what kind of nature did they have? Who was born without sin, besides Jesus and possibly John the Baptist, (I'm not sure), who received the Spirit before they were born. Enoch walked with God. But he was a prophet, thus filled with the Spirit. But the average person without the anointing has a carnal nature.

Sorry, I just got out of bed, and have to go back now.
 

CharismaticLady

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I don’t know what you “live” it SURE ain’t “ Christianity “ ....it sounds more like the popular Mongrel,religion of “Juda Anity” ......That would be Judaism with a little bit of Jesus sprinkled in to sound good.....
Notice that all of those guys that Jesus is about to damn all have one thing in common.....all they speak of is what “ they” did for God.....NO MENTION , NO GRATITUDE , not even an AWARENESS of what Jesus did for them....
They never Trusted in the Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4 to Save them.....That Gospel , the ONLY Gospel , is all about what a Merciful God Did for Wretched,Sinful Men .....NOT what Sinful men did for God...They were eager to be judged by their Works ! Like his Jewish Brothers That Paul knew we're headed for Hell .....they had a Zeal for the Things Of God , But WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE! They Trusted in their OWN Righteousness instead of the Righteousness Of God, which was Trusting in the Perfection Of His Son......Plus Nothing ...
Stand before your Maker some day....Trust in “ Your” pathetic Performance instead of thanking Him for His Perfect Performance On your behalf ,symbolized by the Precious Blood poured out on the Heavenly Mercy Seat and scratch your head in wonderment when you hear those Horrible Words....”Depart From me , I Never knew you!”.....you just never did “ get it” .
Now for old, “ Blood Bought”, He was Wretched from the day he was born until the day he died! Why, he even said that if he ever Met Paul , He would tell Paul to “step aside, there is a New Chief Of Sinners In town!” What In Heaven’s Name will that poor Sinner do when God asks him, “ Why should I let you enter My Kingdom?” Simple .I won’t say a word in my defense. I got nuthin’. What I “will” do is point to that Blood that is on that Heavenly Mercy Seat That I mentioned earlier—- no words are necessary, other than “ which way to the “Marriage Supper Of The Lamb” and “ what’s on the Menu?” Who knew that clinging to the Feet Of Jesus with tears of Thankfulness and Joy could cause one to work up such an appetite? Lol....pass the ketchup ! I hope many if you here join me in that Feast to end all Feasts! Remember how old BB got there , in spite of his rottenness ....He Believed a simple Song—-“ NOTHING But The Blood Of JESUS”..... Turned out it was the Truth! God bless.....

.

You have no idea what it means to be born again of the Spirit and have the laws of the New Covenant written on our hearts. I'm a Christian, and so, naturally, I act like one. If I was a sinner, then that is what I would act like. We do what comes naturally, and my new nature lets me naturally abide in Him. It is Jesus inside me that acts through me. He abides in me, and I abide in Him. In fact, it is the ONLY way we belong to Christ. There is nothing I can do without Him in me. Am I grateful? Of course, and He knows it. I tell him often enough. If you don't hear me, well, I'm not talking to you.
 
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Taken

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Completely Unbiblical.....

Not completely!

IF you be a Jew, Faithful to God, and Not Jesus Christ, you would still be Under the Law, and Under the Law, there are plenty of Sins a man can commit AND Forgive.

However, I speak for myself, as a Converted person.
Regarding;
Precepts, Statutes, Laws


Precepts- Still apply.
Gods direction for behaviors among/between men.

Statutes- Still Apply-with Jesus' interjection;
Gods written Commands.
You may know them by The 1O Commandments God Wrote;

EX 31:
[18] And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

I know them BY:

MATT 22:
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.
[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

^ Those are Accomplished IN me, BY, Through, Because Of The Lord God Spirit / Power IN me.

1 John 4:
[4] Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Law- No longer Applies;
Because; On my part, BY and Through Christ Jesus...the Law IS Fulfilled.

Rom 13:
[8] Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

So yes, as a Converted man IN Christ;
That which Applies to a Converted man IS Absolutely Biblical.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Truther

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That's false. Everyone Christ died for had remission of sins Matt 26:28

For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
They all received remission of sins BEFORE he died?

Why else did he die, then?
 

CharismaticLady

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Unbiblical Hog-Wash.....I will ask you again—- why does Paul talk so much about God’s Chastisement for “ HIS CHILDREN” if those “ Children” never sin? God sure would be Unkind if he went about Punishing His Children for no good reason, wouldn't you agree?

You contradict your own beliefs. Why would God chastise His Children is He doesn't see their sin? You believe our sins are all covered up by the blood of Jesus, and the Father doesn't see. And people with that faulty reasoning go on sinning, so is it any wonder that a God that demands holiness from his ignorant children wouldn't chastise them to get them to open their closed hearts?
 

CharismaticLady

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Martin Luther proclaimed , “ though I rape and kill a thousand times a day— God's Grace still covers my sins”. ( paraphrased)
If course , this is hyperbole on Luther’s part.....and it takes somebody whose intelligence is not limited to actually “ get it”.......,
If I am a Believer in Jesus Christ, I am “ already Forgiven” and can “ NEVER Come under Condemnation .” I can commit Adultery and Murder my wife anytime I “WANT” to and here is the Clincher—— I don’t “ WANT” to! All Believers are in- dwelt with God’s Holy Spirit .The total amount of Born Again , Holy Spirit Indwelt , Believers that murder their wives is probably equal to the amount of unregenerate , Serial Killers out there that sell everything they own and give it to the poor....it ain’t likely to happen.....
With the hopes of making you happy.....here is what will happen .....
David committed Adultery and Murder, yet he is a Saved man ....
Because of his terrible sins, God Chastised Him here on Earth—- MOST SEVERELY ! A Child Of God can Sin up a Storm if he wants to be a Fool, but REST ASSURED—— that “ Child Of God” GETS AWAY WITH NOTHING! ( feel better now?).....After David’s Sin was called out, His life was a total wreck...his baby died, all of his sons turned against him, one of his sons raped one of David daughters, he+spent most of his time on the run, fearing for his life and one of his sons was forever trying to take over David’s Throne.
David was STILL “ a man after God’s Own Heart” and was still counted as a “ Hero Of Faith”. His life was meant to serve as an example to all.It ain’t complicated....sin terribly if you are stupid enough to think that you can “ sin and get away with it”. David didn’t and you Won’t either. If you are a man of Faith , your Faith will save you —- you will probably be one of those that Paul described as “ making it to Heaven “, But getting there like a man who had just barely escaped a house fire .
Getting that “ clear conscience” is a matter of the Holy Spirit convicting you Heart that you have indeed sinned against God and HIM ONLY! You need to “ confess your sin “ before Him which entails you agreeing with Him that it WAS Sin , and you Committed The Sin —— and in most cases , if not all, it was completely “ WILLFULL”......David knew exactly what he was doing, while he was doing it , and did it ANYWAY! Just like the rest of us.....
In the New Covenant Of Grace, when we sin, we need to do the same thing with our Sins that God does with them—— Put them on the Cross ! .....Then, LEAVE THEM THERE! God has “ Forgotten” our sins ....why do you want to drag them down back off of that Cross , or dive to the “ deepest depths of the Sea” to retrieves what God has Banished from His Sight? Thank God for His Amazing Grace and the fact that these Sins have no bearing on your Salvation ( That was an irrevocable GIFT , remember?) Yes , you are still Saved, like ALL that Rest and put their TOTAL FAITH in the Gospel Of Grace Plus Nothing Found In 1Cor15:1-4.....Don’t start whining when God metes out your Chastisement —- If David received it —- you are going to receive it too.....That is the lesson to be taken from David’s life—— Act like a Fool...give into your sinful lusts ...
Disobey God....Do evil....never forget that “ your sin will find you out”.....pay a terrible price for what you have done to keep yourself and others from doing it again , but realize that God still Loves you and because of what Jesus did FOR you on the Cross ...we STILL have our Advocate in Heaven and can come with CONFIDENCE to the “Throne Of Grace” where the Blood, ( if you have Faith in that Blood) as always, WASHES AWAY your sins...
If you are a Believer in Jesus , it has been God’s Responsibility all along to get you to your Destination, ( I will Complete the Work That I started) , it is up to Jesus to “ Present us before His Father as “ Blameless” .....
Yep.....Two Things Save us—- #1 Christ’s Blood...... #2 Our Faith in #1........ God’s Amazing Grace will get us to Heaven. How many welts are on your Rear-End when you arrive there is entirely up to you.... God Bless

Martin Luther was wrong, and that statement of "even if we commit murder and adultery 1000 times a day it will not separate us from God," is an embarrassment to Lutherans.
 

brightfame52

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They all received remission of sins BEFORE he died?

Why else did he die, then?
Your question is illogical, everyone Christ died for, His Sheep, because of His death have remission of their sins. They did not have to do anything!
 

Truther

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Your question is illogical, everyone Christ died for, His Sheep, because of His death have remission of their sins. They did not have to do anything!
You quoted Jesus' words as if he were already dead and remission started with John etc.

Fact is, remission was first introduced as effective in the N.T. per Acts 2:38.
 

CharismaticLady

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No different from us today, under the NT--we all struggle to keep God's universal moral code for mankind. We also struggle, as Christians, doing what God specifically leads us to do every day. Anybody married knows this, if they have a Christian marriage, or even if they are married and not Christians. It's difficult to serve one another 24-7, to put the other one 1st!

Good morning Randy,
Why do you believe Christians struggle under the New Covenant? It was only under the Old Covenant that they struggled because of their sin nature?

I don't know what you mean? I said that all men and women obtained eternal life only after the cross--only after the NT era was initiated. All those under God's Law were as lost as the rest of mankind, even though they were in covenant with God and blessed by their obedience.

They went to Abraham's bosom when they died, but with Christ's resurrection, they rose too and were seen walking around Jerusalem. They wouldn't have died again; they are probably in heaven and Abraham's bosom is now empty.

By contrast, those in the NT era are able, through Christ, to struggle against sin and obtain, for their efforts, eternal life.

To struggle by their own efforts??? That is not the gospel. We can do nothing without Christ inside us, and in Him there is NO struggle. His yoke is easy, and His burden is light. The laws are written on our new nature to do naturally, instinctively. So, what struggle? Unfortunately, there are many Christians in the church who have yet to fully surrender to Christ and be filled with His Spirit. It is not automatic by accepting Jesus as Savior, but not Lord.

By grace they have been saved. Christ provided the atonement, and we receive it. And in choosing to live in his righteousness we are born again, and no longer have the old works of the flesh counted against us.

You still believe it is us choosing to live in His righteousness to be born again. That is works. NO! It is when we acknowledge our inability to live in God's righteousness by our own efforts, that we cry out to Jesus and tell Him of our failure, but desire to be cleansed, that Jesus steps up and gives us His Holy Spirit to empower us to easily and naturally do righteousness by the laws suddenly written on our hearts.

No, that's not what I'm saying, and that's what Paul was accused of saying also. The notion of liberation from condemnation does not remove the sin nature from us. The difference is that our righteousness is now recognized by an atonement that leads to eternal life. In the OT era, righteousness counted for something, but had to wait until Christ came to be recognized.

Above...

The key word here is *righteousness.* We accept Christ's righteousness as a replacement for our carnal lifestyle. We still commit carnal works in our weakness, but we don't live in them. Having chosen Christ to live at the center of our being, he becomes our driving force in our lives. That's what makes us "born again," I believe.

You are still giving your own efforts too much credit. Our new nature is so much more powerful than the old nature that died on the cross, it is easy to not resurrect the old nature by your free will, especially after experiencing the joy and authorities we enjoy and the freedom from falling into temptation.

In the OT period, the saints did similarly, making God their only God, and making His word the driving force for their lives. After all, Jesus mentioned "born again" in an OT context initially.

Yes, Jeremiah spoke of the New Covenant that would come.

The difference is that in the NT our new birth results in eternal salvation, whereas in the OT for all Israel's righteousness they still remained under condemnation. They were not less righteous than us--they only had to await Christ's atonement.

Those who are actually Spirit-filled and Spirit-driven are much more successful than those in the OT who had to struggle. That is why their sins were previously overlooked. Romans 3:25.


You are using "anointing" in a very specific way. But if you were to say that the Holy Spirit only used people unless they were leaders, that would be mistaken. All men were given the word of God in their consciences, and all were made to be "like God." This can't happen apart from a work of the Holy Spirit. One did not have to be called to be prophet or king to serve God.

That was Adam BEFORE he willfully sinned. But no one in the OT have what we have. Otherwise, there would be no reason for Christ to send the Holy Spirit to all of us, not just the few.


The "taking away" part has to do with the removal of the curse upon sin, which is death. No saint of God has ever been without sin. No Christian who chooses to live by the righteousness of God does so being outside of a body infected with sin. Even when we live in righteousness, our failures are in evidence. You should know this. We merely need to confess this to be cleansed of it.

The taking away has to do with the sin NATURE. This is the fundamental flaw in the humanistic doctrines that developed after the apostles died.

I agree with all that, of course. We are called to live in righteousness. We daily have to defeat sin in our lives. In choosing to be righteous, we are prevailing over our sin nature. But no--it does not *eradicate* our sin nature!

Again, you own efforts. Works. That is OT, not New.
 

Truther

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I stated clearly what I posted.
Do you think remission of sins via water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ was first introduced as N.T. church doctrine in Acts 2:38(at Pentecost) ?
 

CharismaticLady

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I don’t know what you “live” it SURE ain’t “ Christianity “ ....it sounds more like the popular Mongrel,religion of “Juda Anity” ......That would be Judaism with a little bit of Jesus sprinkled in to sound good.....
Notice that all of those guys that Jesus is about to damn all have one thing in common.....all they speak of is what “ they” did for God.....NO MENTION , NO GRATITUDE , not even an AWARENESS of what Jesus did for them....
They never Trusted in the Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4 to Save them.....That Gospel , the ONLY Gospel , is all about what a Merciful God Did for Wretched,Sinful Men .....NOT what Sinful men did for God...They were eager to be judged by their Works ! Like his Jewish Brothers That Paul knew we're headed for Hell .....they had a Zeal for the Things Of God , But WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE! They Trusted in their OWN Righteousness instead of the Righteousness Of God, which was Trusting in the Perfection Of His Son......Plus Nothing ...
Stand before your Maker some day....Trust in “ Your” pathetic Performance instead of thanking Him for His Perfect Performance On your behalf ,symbolized by the Precious Blood poured out on the Heavenly Mercy Seat and scratch your head in wonderment when you hear those Horrible Words....”Depart From me , I Never knew you!”.....you just never did “ get it” .
Now for old, “ Blood Bought”, He was Wretched from the day he was born until the day he died! Why, he even said that if he ever Met Paul , He would tell Paul to “step aside, there is a New Chief Of Sinners In town!” What In Heaven’s Name will that poor Sinner do when God asks him, “ Why should I let you enter My Kingdom?” Simple .I won’t say a word in my defense. I got nuthin’. What I “will” do is point to that Blood that is on that Heavenly Mercy Seat That I mentioned earlier—- no words are necessary, other than “ which way to the “Marriage Supper Of The Lamb” and “ what’s on the Menu?” Who knew that clinging to the Feet Of Jesus with tears of Thankfulness and Joy could cause one to work up such an appetite? Lol....pass the ketchup ! I hope many if you here join me in that Feast to end all Feasts! Remember how old BB got there , in spite of his rottenness ....He Believed a simple Song—-“ NOTHING But The Blood Of JESUS”..... Turned out it was the Truth! God bless.....

.

It seems all you want is a repeat of the milk of the gospel, and are not ready for the meat.
 

Truther

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Good morning Randy,
Why do you believe Christians struggle under the New Covenant? It was only under the Old Covenant that they struggled because of their sin nature?



They went to Abraham's bosom when they died, but with Christ's resurrection, they rose too and were seen walking around Jerusalem. They wouldn't have died again; they are probably in heaven and Abraham's bosom is now empty.



To struggle by their own efforts??? That is not the gospel. We can do nothing without Christ inside us, and in Him there is NO struggle. His yoke is easy, and His burden is light. The laws are written on our new nature to do naturally, instinctively. So, what struggle? Unfortunately, there are many Christians in the church who have yet to fully surrender to Christ and be filled with His Spirit. It is not automatic by accepting Jesus as Savior, but not Lord.



You still believe it is us choosing to live in His righteousness to be born again. That is works. NO! It is when we acknowledge our inability to live in God's righteousness by our own efforts, that we cry out to Jesus and tell Him of our failure, but desire to be cleansed, that Jesus steps up and gives us His Holy Spirit to empower us to easily and naturally do righteousness by the laws suddenly written on our hearts.



Above...



You are still giving your own efforts too much credit. Our new nature is so much more powerful than the old nature that died on the cross, it is easy to not resurrect the old nature by your free will, especially after experiencing the joy and authorities we enjoy and the freedom from falling into temptation.



Yes, Jeremiah spoke of the New Covenant that would come.



Those who are actually Spirit-filled and Spirit-driven are much more successful than those in the OT who had to struggle. That is why their sins were previously overlooked. Romans 3:25.




That was Adam BEFORE he willfully sinned. But no one in the OT have what we have. Otherwise, there would be no reason for Christ to send the Holy Spirit to all of us, not just the few.




The taking away has to do with the sin NATURE. This is the fundamental flaw in the humanistic doctrines that developed after the apostles died.



Again, you own efforts. Works. That is OT, not New.
Is repentance a work?

Can we be saved without repentance?

Does God repent us or do we repent ourselves?
 

CharismaticLady

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Is repentance a work?

Can we be saved without repentance?

Does God repent us or do we repent ourselves?

In order to become a Christian we must repent, Truther. That is an element of the milk of the gospel. Acts 2:38. But if someone truly repents, then Jesus gives them the Holy Spirit to super-sensitize their conscience where suddenly the laws of God are written and they become your nature. So if you keep those laws on your heart, what further repentance must you make. It is only trespasses that we must ask forgiveness of, AS we forgive others. So there are really two easy things we must do as Christians:

1. Obey your own conscience. 1 John 3:21-24
2. Forgive others their trespasses. Matthew 6:14-15
 

marks

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That's what these guys thought:

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

For one thing, how would you know that? This was a teaching from Jesus, and Jesus did not declare this of these He spoke of. So do you put words into the mouth of Jesus?

Jesus' answer to them had nothing to do with their works, whether real or imagined. Jesus doesn't, in His teaching, even give an assessment of their works at all. The entire point was that they didn't have a relationship. He never knew them! They thought they were OK with God because they approved of their own works.

They assumed that because they had these works that they knew God. But they were wrong.

This has nothing to do with what God tells us in Romans 4 and 5, that by faith we know Him, and by faith we stand in His grace. Grace in giving us Christ. We stand in His grace, not ignoring His gift, Christ in you. Which is what I was talking about. Not that we can think all our works are good, but miss out on knowing Jesus.

So I teach sanctification through faith in the efficacy of Jesus' death to our justification. That by accepting as accomplished fact our sins are forgiven unleashes our faith to live in God's presence and love, and your response is essentially that I'm just relying on works and don't really know Jesus?

Am I missing something here?

Much love!
 

Randy Kluth

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And what kind of nature did they have? Who was born without sin, besides Jesus and possibly John the Baptist, (I'm not sure), who received the Spirit before they were born. Enoch walked with God. But he was a prophet, thus filled with the Spirit. But the average person without the anointing has a carnal nature.

Sorry, I just got out of bed, and have to go back now.

No problem. Get back to me when you're fully awake. Your assumption is that those anointed with the Spirit and someone called before birth are sinless? John the Baptist clearly admitted his 2nd class status next to Jesus--his lack of worthiness. The sin nature is universal to all of mankind. We inherit the sin nature--every one of us.

Having a spiritual anointing, or calling to a specific leadership position in God's Kingdom, has never made one sinless. There is absolutely no example of this in the Bible--no insinuation that this is true. On the contrary, the Law universally applied sin sacrifices for all Israel, regardless of any one's spiritual position.

Living a life of righteousness in Christ is an "overcoming" life, and not a sinless life. We still have a sin nature, but we are able to overcome it by choosing to live a righteous life. Our flaws can be covered by the blood of Jesus when we determine to continue living in the righteousness of Christ. Our flaws do not stop us from living a righteous life. We simply have to expose and get rid of the issues when they arise.

It was the exact same thing under the Law in the OT era. The only difference is that their struggle against sin, though able to overcome sin, could not achieve eternal life. They could only do what was necessary to prepare for Christ's atonement, which now renders them eligible.
 
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