Is baptimal regeneration biblical?

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theefaith

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Is baptismal regeneration biblical?
Is baptism required for salvation?



Baptism!

Old Testament pre-figures of baptism.

Psalm 36:9
For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light.

Song of Solomon 4:15
A fountain of gardens, a well of living waters, and streams from Lebanon.

Isaiah 41:18
I will open rivers in high places, and fountains in the midst of the valleys: I will make the wilderness a pool of water, and the dry land springs of water.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put withi n you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

New Testament

Matt 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

( Disciples by baptism not faith alone)

Mk 1:4
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Mark 16:16
he who believes and is baptized shall be saved!

Jn 1: 11
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (Baptism)

John 1:26
John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6
And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)

John3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

John 3:22
After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism)

John 4:4
When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

John 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Act 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.(Baptism)

Acts 8:36
And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rom 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Ephesians 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:5 
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Colossians 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Gal 4:19
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (baptism)

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 Peter 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: see Ez 36

1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark and the church there is no salvation!)
 

DaChaser

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Is baptismal regeneration biblical?
Is baptism required for salvation?



Baptism!

Old Testament pre-figures of baptism.

Psalm 36:9
For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light.

Song of Solomon 4:15
A fountain of gardens, a well of living waters, and streams from Lebanon.

Isaiah 41:18
I will open rivers in high places, and fountains in the midst of the valleys: I will make the wilderness a pool of water, and the dry land springs of water.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put withi n you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

New Testament

Matt 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

( Disciples by baptism not faith alone)

Mk 1:4
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Mark 16:16
he who believes and is baptized shall be saved!

Jn 1: 11
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (Baptism)

John 1:26
John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6
And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)

John3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

John 3:22
After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism)

John 4:4
When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

John 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Act 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.(Baptism)

Acts 8:36
And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rom 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Ephesians 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:5 
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Colossians 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Gal 4:19
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (baptism)

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 Peter 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: see Ez 36

1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark and the church there is no salvation!)
No to both questions!
 

theefaith

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Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put withi n you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them


Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (baptism)

regeneration = new birth Jn 3:5 = baptismal regeneration

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
 

DNB

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Your exegesis is absolutely pathetic! You can't tell the difference between symbolism, analogies, metaphors or figures of speech, as opposed to literalism and reality? And thus, the difference between exegesis and eisegesis?
 
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BreadOfLife

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Your exegesis is absolutely pathetic! You can't tell the difference between symbolism, analogies, metaphors, as opposed to literalism and reality? And thus, the difference between exegesis and eisegesis?
Ummmmm, talk about DENIAL . . .

Tell me - WHAT part of the following is "pathetic exegesis" regarding Baptism?
Titus 3:5

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.

Is it the part "washing of regeneration" - or the one about "renewing of the Holy Ghost"??
 

DNB

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Ummmmm, talk about DENIAL . . .

Tell me - WHAT part of the following is "pathetic exegesis" regarding Baptism?
Titus 3:5

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.

Is it the part "washing of regeneration" - or the one about "renewing of the Holy Ghost"??
The former is analogous, obviously. Are you convinced that taking a shower or a swim has purified anyone in God's eyes? What about standing in the rain?
You can't tell the difference between an analogy and literalism? Wisdom has taught you nothing?
 

Jane_Doe22

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Is baptismal regeneration biblical?
Is baptism required for salvation?
Better question: why should a person be baptized?

Once you talk about the why, then everything else comes second.
The two major camps here are:
1) Baptism is something done to you (including non-believers) as a mark of your parent's discipleship to mark a person and alleviate Original Sin.
2) Baptism is a celebration of a believer's acceptance of Christ and their rebirth as a new person in Christ.
 

BreadOfLife

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The former is analogous, obviously. Are you convinced that taking a shower or a swim has purified anyone in God's eyes? What about standing in the rain?
You can't tell the difference between an analogy and literalism? Wisdom has taught you nothing?
It's not the water that regenerates us.
It is THROUGH water that we are regenerated by the Holy Spirit. this is what Peter talks about in 1 Pet. 3:21. Water is the MEANS - not the ENDS.

When Jesus cured the Blind Man - he COULD have simply said, "Open your eyes!" - and he would have been healed.
WHY did He used mud and water to do it? SAME goes for the miracle at the Wedding at Cana.

God has ALWAYS used tangible means to communicate His grace with His people. He knows that we are physical beings and need physical reminders and processes.
 

DNB

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It's not the water that regenerates us.
It is THROUGH water that we are regenerated by the Holy Spirit. this is what Peter talks about in 1 Pet. 3:21. Water is the MEANS - not the ENDS.

When Jesus cured the Blind Man - he COULD have simply said, "Open your eyes!" - and he would have been healed.
WHY did He used mud and water to do it? SAME goes for the miracle at the Wedding at Cana.

God has ALWAYS used tangible means to communicate His grace with His people. He knows that we are physical beings and need physical reminders and processes.
No BOL, God has not always used tangible means to communicate his grace to us. For crying out loud, you cited maybe 4 examples, all the other miracles that were equivalent i.e. raising the dead (Jarius' daughter, Elijah & Elisha, Eutycus), healing the sick, leprous or blind, had nothing to do with water. Even the centurion's servant, Jesus was not even within a mile of the victim when the healing took place.
Quit being so mystical and nonsensicle.
 

BreadOfLife

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No BOL, God has not always used tangible means to communicate his grace to us. For crying out loud, you cited maybe 4 examples, all the other miracles that were equivalent i.e. raising the dead (Jarius' daughter, Elijah & Elisha, Eutycus), healing the sick, leprous or blind, had nothing to do with water. Even the centurion's servant, Jesus was not even within a mile of the victim when the healing took place.
Quit being so mystical and nonsensicle.
- The Tree of Knowledge
- The Flood
- The Parting of the Sea
- The Ark of the Covenant.
- The Bronze Serpent
- Manna
- The Water of Baptism
- The Eucharist
- Anointing with Oil


Shall I go on??
 

DNB

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- The Tree of Knowledge
- The Flood
- The Parting of the Sea
- The Ark of the Covenant.
- The Bronze Serpent
- Manna
- The Water of Baptism
- The Eucharist
- Anointing with Oil


Shall I go on??
non-sequitur!
 

BreadOfLife

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non-sequitur!
How is Biblical evidence against your claims a "non sequitur"??

That's the cop-out of the year - but I fully understand since your position is so indefensible . . .
 

DNB

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How is Biblical evidence against your claims a "non sequitur"??

That's the cop-out of the year - but I fully understand since your position is so indefensible . . .
You were trying to make an equation with water, that all signs of grace had thus allusion, in order to justify water baptism. I merely demonstrated that not all gifts of the spirit intimated the significance of water. Point being, such a superficial act has no meritorious or efficacious properties, it can only be symbolic, and thus, not incumbent upon the Church. Not to mention, an act of works is not requisite for salvation, it is antithetical to grace.
 

theefaith

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Your exegesis is absolutely pathetic! You can't tell the difference between symbolism, analogies, metaphors or figures of speech, as opposed to literalism and reality? And thus, the difference between exegesis and eisegesis?
So you need all these things to get Protestantism from the Bible?
 

BreadOfLife

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You were trying to make an equation with water, that all signs of grace had thus allusion, in order to justify water baptism. I merely demonstrated that not all gifts of the spirit intimated the significance of water. Point being, such a superficial act has no meritorious or efficacious properties, it can only be symbolic, and thus, not incumbent upon the Church. Not to mention, an act of works is not requisite for salvation, it is antithetical to grace.
WRONG again.

First of all - I never said that "ALL" gifts of the Spirit involved water. That's a LIE of your own invention.
I said that God has always used TANGIBLE means to convey grace to His people - and gave you a short list of examples. I also said that these tangible means were simply that - the MEANS and not the ENDS.

Finally - being Baptized with water IS necessary because JESUS said so (Matt. 28:19, John 3:5, Mark 16:16) - as did His disciples (Acts 21:38, 1 Pet. 3:21, Acts 10:48, Acts 22:16, Rom. 6: 3-4).
This required OUR cooperation with God's grace.


 

DNB

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So you need all these things to get Protestantism from the Bible?
No, we need all these things on order to rightly divide God's Word. It's called hermeneutics - recognizing the multiplicity of literary devices that have been used throughout Scriptures, ....irrespective of one's denomination.
 

DNB

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WRONG again.

First of all - I never said that "ALL" gifts of the Spirit involved water. That's a LIE of your own invention.
I said that God has always used TANGIBLE means to convey grace to His people - and gave you a short list of examples. I also said that these tangible means were simply that - the MEANS and not the ENDS.

Finally - being Baptized with water IS necessary because JESUS said so (Matt. 28:19, John 3:5, Mark 16:16) - as did His disciples (Acts 21:38, 1 Pet. 3:21, Acts 10:48, Acts 22:16, Rom. 6: 3-4).
This required OUR cooperation with God's grace.
No cooperation required outside of faith. Like I said, such a superficial couldn't possibly have any meritorious efficacy, even ask a 12 year old, for even they can tell the difference. Water does not purify a heart, God does not want clean clothes or skin in heaven, but sanctified hearts and minds.
 

Jane_Doe22

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No cooperation required outside of faith. Like I said, such a superficial couldn't possibly have any meritorious efficacy, even ask a 12 year old, for even they can tell the difference. Water does not purify a heart, God does not want clean clothes or skin in heaven, but sanctified hearts and minds.
Hi @DNB, could I ask your take on the purpose of baptism?

Yes, I am admittedly being lazy and asking you rather than reading what you previously wrote on this thread.
 

DNB

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Hi @DNB, could I ask your take on the purpose of baptism?

Yes, I am admittedly being lazy and asking you rather than reading what you previously wrote on this thread.
...understood, I don't think that i actually expounded on it anyhow, just an attempt to refute the compulsory aspect of it.
There are several baptisms referred to in the Bible. Baptism into the faith, baptism of the spirit, baptism with water. Thus, not every mention of baptism implies water related (sprinkling, submersion, dunking). The only two New Testament that are explicit, is Philip and the Ethiopian (the proselyte), and Cornelius and his household (1st Gentile conversion). Thus, even the day of Pentecost where 3,000 were saved, mentions that they were baptized, but do we actually believe that after being convicted in their hearts, there was a necessity to get 3,000 men into a river in order to solidify their salvation - no, they were baptized into the name of Christ Jesus.
Paul travelled throughout Asia Minor and Europe, and saved many on the spur of the moment, does one believe that there was any strategy to stay close to a body or source of water? Or, after the fact, to consider the logistics of getting so many people, in so many different environments and conditions, to an area where all can go through such a ritual - for what?

I believe that the significance of John's baptism, in such an distinct an overt manner, was because the tangible and source of faith had not arrived. There had to be a physical sign to emphasize such a novel era that was just around the corner - it added to the weight and symbolism to his message.

Yes, Christ was baptized, and water baptism continued even after Jesus started his ministry (his own disciples baptized people). But, due to the lack of emphasis on it once the Spirit arrived (as I explained above), plus the strictly superficial nature of the act, I'm extremely hesitant to see it as an obligatory requirement towards salvation.