The Rapture Lie

The even listed here.

Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

This even occurs in Rev 14. It is at the End of the Tribulation.

Jesus describes the Rapture even next in Matt 24. They are different events as Noah was spared from the destruction of the Earth before the rain fell........

Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

In this event
Jesus describes how those escape before destruction. One is taken, and one is left.

The end of the Tribulation Event Jesus said this.

Immediately after the tribulation, the sun Goes dark, the powers of Heaven shall be shaken. The Jesus comes with the Angels and sickle. We know exactly when that event occurs, and when Jesus comes.

In the Noah escape event............Jesus said.........

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Two separate events, one after the tribulation, the other before Tribulation.


I assume Christina will be Taken after the Tribulation as she wants to be an elect, that is if she survives...........Me, I am with Christ and the Church. I'll be gone before the trouble starts.

All right there folks, easy to understand.

Jesus is Lord.

[quote name='Martin W.' date='01 June 2010 - 09:46 PM' timestamp='1275446783' post='83472']
We Christians are a difficult bunch. One of our problems is we tend to think the whole bible is about us and for us. Period.

In summary God always refers to 3 groups of people :
1. His chosen people Israel.
2. Saved gentiles
3. Unsaved gentiles

With that in mind:
1. The Old testament is about Israel with a rare mention of the gentile
2. The new testament focuses heavily on the saved Jew and the saved gentile.
3. Revelation appears to focus back on Israel again.


I for one, am extremely thankful to have the opportunity to be part of the gentile branch grafted to the olive tree of Israel.

I hope I never become so arrogant to try to eliminate end time Israel from God's final plans.
[/quote]

It's always been about Israel and He always had provisions for those who would JOIN THEMSELVES to Israel ... "stranger that sojourns among you/one law for the native and for the sojourner among you" etc.

Don't forget, even as they left Egypt, they had people follow along joining themselves.

He calls Israel a peculiar people set apart for His purposes ... so yes, it is arrogant for replacement theology to teach all the 1 hour a week believers to hop in a pew, nod off during the sermon, drop a fiver in the plate and rush home before Nascar starts that it is now the church who are His holy, set-apart nation.

Rom 11:21 (KJV)
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.






[quote name='Brother Mike' date='02 June 2010 - 12:51 AM' timestamp='1275457883'
Me, I am with Christ and the Church. I'll be gone before the trouble starts.

All right there folks, easy to understand.
[/quote]


Only saying it one last time, then your blood is on your own head.

The tares are burned first.

So if your SO DEAD-SET on REMOVING YOURSELF, then quit yer squawking and get outta the way, people have work to do while it is still light.

All right there folks, easy to understand.

Jarbreaker..................

Only saying it one last time, then your blood is on your own head.

The tares are burned first.

So if your SO DEAD-SET on REMOVING YOURSELF, then quit yer squawking and get outta the way, people have work to do while it is still light.

All right there folks, easy to understand.

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Thank you for you gracious input!!!!!

You are very correct in writing that the tares are removed first.............. Anyone that has planted a garden does not take out all the tomato, cucumber, and carrot plants just to get them out of the way for the Weed pulling. No, I have walked many Gardens, going down each row, and grabbing those weeds from away the good plants.

As I pointed out, this even occurs at the End of the Tribulation. Jesus comes with the Angels. I gave you the scripture.

There is another Even that is different, It is the one where the Church is taken, We do not know day or hour when this even occurs. Jesus said so, but Jesus did tell us when the Angels come with the sickles............. He said "Immediately" after the Tribulation. He told of two different events in the same Chapter of Matt 24..........

If your unable to understand that, then I fully apologize if I have gone to deep in the Word for you. I would be more than happy to help you grasp this. Just let me know.

God Bless you.

Jesus Is Lord.

best post in this entire thread right on Jar you absoulty right ... I call this fast food religion
quick give me a few feel good verse's and get me home .. I have important things to do computer games , T.V. whatever
They want an easy fast way out of here so much easier to believe your flying away

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No christiana, it is lots more work to put together some convoluted theory, counting trumpets (One is the trump of God, the other from the seven angels) and completely miss tangle and mess up the scriptures. All you have to do is read, and keep it simple.

Now address my point about the two events Jesus Mentions.

Let me remind you that we have all agreed that we will be protected. I gave you the How.

Hammerstone:

That's what I try to point out to all rapture believers. God certainly does not have to remove you from the scene to protect you. As I've said before, remember Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. God didn't remove them from the fire. Instead, He was right there with them!

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Jesus said like the Days of Noah.............. one is taken, the other left in the field............. Were are we taken to Christiana? This is before destruction.

I gave you what Hammerstone said, and I posted what Jesus said.............. Now if you want to disagree with Jesus, that is fine with me. You run on about this, and that, but your terrible on defending your error.............. you really need to learn how to express yourself in the Word more.

Jesus Is Lord.

Brother Mike said:

Glory to God fivesense: Yes we have disagreed strongly before. At no time have you not taken the time to use scriptures and explain your position.
The simple understanding of the Word, not obscure things, not things that we must stretch to make true. Though I not agree always, not one time was it not clear in Word why you have taken a different position. I did not have to suspend my belief system to understand.

That is not the case with some in this thread, but when asking to explain, just scriptures are thrown out to pick though, or some video about a Rock under a chair is given. That is if those explaining are being nice. Most the time I picture my arms being ripped off and beaten with them being called stupid over and over.


1Ti 1:4 Nor to give importance to or occupy themselves with legends (fables, myths) and endless genealogies, which foster and promote useless speculations and questionings rather than acceptance in faith of God's administration and the divine training that is in faith ([1] in that leaning of the entire human personality on God in absolute trust and confidence)--

Jesus Is Lord.

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The arm thing is a bit much, kinda gross..........I uphold you in prayer and speed.
fivesense

The arm thing is a bit much, kinda gross..........I uphold you in prayer and speed.

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Oh, your right Fivesense, a little over the top. I was trying to express on how I felt, and that came to mind first...............bothersome......

Thank you for your prays and all the wonderful truth you have shared here.

Jesus Is Lord.

Thank you forgiven................ I assume you uphold our scripturally correct position, and are appalled just as we are at the personal attacks...........

Jesus Is Lord.

forgivenWretch said:

For Heavens sakes, STOP making everything personal.
STOP the personal attacks...
address the post and not the poster.
GROW up and act like the Christians you claim to be.​

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You need to switch to decaf.

EDIT: In case someone isn't aware, I was just having some harmless fun. Sorry if anyone thought I was trying to pick a fight.

ummm.... As funny as that was Robster............ Some take things very serious, and ForgivenWretch I believe is being serious. That person may have a real concern made up or not made up, that is affecting them personaly.

The Rapture topic is a fire topic on many forums, and some may not have that comprehension.

So, it may suit you to edit your post, and consider what that person may be thinking.

I don't mind responding to name calling with humor, and in a lite way, but when I see someone being serious, then I take them serious, and consider where they are coming from, and what they are feeling.

God bless.

Jesus is Lord.

You need to switch to decaf.

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Thanks but I don't drink coffee! Both sides need to take a good hard look at them selves and quit acting the way they are. I am thinking seriously about quitting this site, because of all the childish and un-Christ like behavior. Too many blinders on that need to be removed!

forgivenWretch:

I ask you to consider where the children are playing. It's on this thread, (The Rapture Lie) and several people disagreed with Christina, and it's not even Christina's Study.

She felt that she was being ganged up on. She us to be Site adminastrator here, and is use to Her way and Doctrine. Hammerstone always backed her up.

So, we have this one thread that upsets her, and in response she blast the shout box and starts another thread about how she was mistreated, when in reality she started the name calling and getting offended.

So, we joke back with her.

As far as I can tell, the issue is limited to this one thread, and Christina wanting everyone to know that she is mistreated because someone does not agree with her.

It is not as bad as it looks. read the other threads, and you will see love, and normal forum talk.

Jesus is Lord.

Brother Mike said:

ummm.... As funny as that was Robster............ Some take things very serious, and ForgivenWretch I believe is being serious. That person may have a real concern made up or not made up, that is affecting them personaly.

The Rapture topic is a fire topic on many forums, and some may not have that comprehension.

So, it may suit you to edit your post, and consider what that person may be thinking.

I don't mind responding to name calling with humor, and in a lite way, but when I see someone being serious, then I take them serious, and consider where they are coming from, and what they are feeling.

God bless.

Jesus is Lord.

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Good Idea Brother Mike.

The Adversary is marvelously intelligent. He was formed by God for the express purpose of opposition to Him. It is contrast, the means by which we obtain truth while seeking God and His loving Son. If all was merely given to us, and we never were to recognize our insufficiencies, we would be nothing more than spoiled children, useless for the inheritance to come

Those who are staunch in their spirits and close to the Redeemer will sometimes come into conflict with those who claim faith, but in actuality are carnal. Advancements in the Kingdom are meant to be opposed. It is God's desire for us to operate in love and grace across the board, especially when we are being opposed.

If the fire is too hot, the conflicts too unbearable, then why remain in the battle? I say this to those who would prevent God from unveiling His sons and daughters, the ones who are seriously pursuing truth at all cost to themselves. Martin Luther was despised by his own for uncovering truth, and to this day, the ones to whom God is enlightening in hidden and neglected truths of the Word will come under the attacks of their own.

It goes with the turf. It waxes the candle's fibre. As iron sharpens iron, so saint against saint it sometimes goes. Humility and obedience do not come about by being subservient and cowering, speaking in rosey overtures with artificial kisses. It comes by being tested and found wanting by the ones who God appoints, and having to humbly seek the truth where we might be in error.
fivesense

I pray that our hearts be broadened and opened to each one, and the Image we are seeking to come quickly.

Brother Mike said:

Jesus said like the Days of Noah.............. one is taken, the other left in the field............. Were are we taken to Christiana? This is before destruction.

I gave you what Hammerstone said, and I posted what Jesus said..............

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You did anything but!

what you did was your most blatant "prop up my pet doctrine with scriptures that dont actually support it" yet (and if that "counting trumps" thing was about me, re-read all ive posted)

He said as in the days of Noah, people will be marrying and giving in marriage ... this is only referncing the fact that things will be going on BUSINESS AS USUAL ... and the tragedy will strike them UNAWARES ... kinda like how some people today are la-de-da'ing their way through what people say and still stick to their comfort zone.

AS IN the days of Noah .... this is meaning that in the days BEFORE His return, things will be just as wicked as in the days just precceeding the destruction by flood.

forgivenWretch said:

For Heavens sakes, STOP making everything personal.
STOP the personal attacks...
​

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Just make a few more pat-on-the-back-thanks-for-being-reasonable-and-seeing-things-the-same-way-I-do posts and even things out.

Brother Mike said:

Thank you forgiven................ I assume you uphold our scripturally correct position

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Oh look! you can join in right here.

Jarbreaker:

You are so correct, it will be business as usual. people marry, and take not a thought about the Lord or the things of God. Just like in the days of Noah.

Also in the days of Noah, they continued to do these things because there was no tragic things taking place such as the tribulation period. Then if you continue to read, Jesus said just like the days of Noah, the flood came, the destruction of the whole earth.

Unlike the days of Noah where a boat was used, Jesus said one will be in the field and one taken. This is how we escape the tribulation event or the final destruction. It won't be by boat this time, Jesus comes, and removes the Church, we have no idea when this will take place, at least the day or hour. I believe we will know the season.

Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This first event tells us it will be before the time of trouble, we will be delivered of those written in the book, Michael the archangel will be there, and a resserection event will occur during this time.

Paul's letters were to the Chruch, and concerning only the Chruch.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Our gathering unto him.......... that is the Church.


2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Jesus said when the Gospel is preached all over the World, then the End comes.............The Gospel will have reached every ear that can be reached, something occurs that causes many to fall away. What this could be is anyones guess, proof that we were created by a alien race and they are really the creator? who knows.............. but many will start to leave the truth for some reason.

2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

The anointed body of the Lord Jesus is what Paul is refering to. The Chruch is withholding this Event.

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

The HE is the Holy Spirit, The Holy Spirit is also refered to as him or he in other scriptures. The purpose of the Holy Spirit is to reprove the Word of sin. The Antichrist can not operate if the Holy Spirit is in the way. The Church and the Holy Spirit are keeping sin in check, and where there is sin, grace abounds more. This has to be removed.

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

After we are removed, then the wicked on shall be revealed.............. Why, because we preached the Gospel all over the World, and they recieved not the love of the Truth.

The revolt has already started. As we have two major denominations allow for Gay Pastors now.............. That is what falling away means, deflection from the truth. If aliens get thrown in the Mix, who knows.

I hope I have made this easy to understand........... I never said anything about you and trumpets.

Jesus Is Lord.

Brother Mike said:

Jarbreaker:

You are so correct, it will be business as usual. people marry, and take not a thought about the Lord or the things of God. Just like in the days of Noah.

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Jesus Is Lord.

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Hi Brother Mike, not going to try to gang up on you or nothin', but 2 Thes2:7 does not contain the Greek article assigning gender to anyone, it says "the one detaining, or literally "the one-down-having". There is no he, she, or him there." He" has been added by the translators according to interpretation, not according to rule.

I am of the opinion, and of course I see it as such, that it is speaking of the Body of Christ as that which detains. As with all ambassadors, the declaration of war between two countries is proven and assumed by the removal of the visiting representatives of each country. The removal of the Body would also entail the removal of God's Holy Spirit, as that is where it resides at this time. His removal of the ecclesia of Christ would signify the beginning of the war to take control out of the hands of man. So, I do not see God administering wrath and judgement when this vehicle of His operation is still present. It would be contradictory and without propriety.
fivesense

Fivesense:

Hi Brother Mike, not going to try to gang up on you or nothin', but 2 Thes2:7 does not contain the Greek article assigning gender to anyone, it says "the one detaining, or literally "the one-down-having". There is no he, she, or him there." He" has been added by the translators according to interpretation, not according to rule.

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I know your not ganging up on me

This "HE" has been the subject of debate.

There is no doubt Paul is speaking of the Chruch here. He starts off talking about the Church as a whole being with the Lord.

2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

We are the What in that verse, and we are in the way. The anointed Church must be removed for Satan it operate, and the deception to be what it is going to be. I have cast a devil out of someone, and I had someone scream at me saying you can't cast me out, over and over then run away from me. (Ya, it was a strange day)

The Power of the Holy Spirit is so brilliant and awesome that the AntiChrist.......... (Anti anointing) for devils refuse to confess that the anointing of God himself could be inside flesh. (Christ come in the flesh) Can not be present for the end time events to take place.

So, I am with you on the Church................

Now our way of interpretation is different............ I am far more simple, which could be bad or good. That is why I am learning.
I also use the KJV........

So, in my thinking, the Holy Spirit must be removed, or removed from people, or the anointed Church. We do that by removing the anointed people.

The one that keeps sin in check and reproves the world of sin is the Holy Spirit. Satan can't operate if the Holy spirit is still functioning as He is today. Satan would never be able to overcome the power of the Holy Spirit.

Now our scripture.

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity (Sin)doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Whatever is holding back this mass apostasy (Falling away from truth) is removed. The anointed church? The Holy Spirit?

So, I took the term He. From here.


Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

If "HE" is the Holy Spirit then He will be taken away. Also righteousness and judgment will be removed, which will be necessary for Satan to operate.

That is where I got it. I compared scriptures. The Holy Spirit can't leave earth, there will be some that still make it, but I think we revert to the time before the Church, and the Spirit of God functioning as He did during the OT.

After this removing occurs then this occurs.

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

So Fivesense, I am not saying who's right or anything, but I am showing you How I came to the conclusion. It is argued even in my Circles. They say Chruch, Some don't, I say the one that gives the Chruch it's ability is the 'HE" and the HE must be removed before the events of the tribulation can occur.

That is just my thinking.

Jesus Is Lord