Why Does God Allow The False Pre-trib Rapture Lie?

Cristo Rei · Oct 28, 2020

Backlit said:
There's a fourth not generally considered by any because of its source, but it's more biblical, has less holes, makes more sense, and offers a much happier end for all involved. My advice would be to disregard all those three and go back to the Bible.

Ye im not one to advocate for one or the other... On the balance of probability i might lean one way or the other but i can't say beyond reasonable doubt... If ur familiar with some law ul know what i mean...
Ignorance is bliss in many ways, im happy to just turn my hands to the sky and admit my ignorance to the Lord...
Cos how much do we really understand... How much are we capable of understanding... U know what I mean... Faith begins on the edges of understanding... If we understood it all we wouldn't need faith, true...

U know how Jesus says the Kingdom of God welcomes children... Well my understanding of advanced doctrines and theology is almost child like because i left when i was a teen and only fully returned 2 years back...

U know when u do your first confirmation? My parents are Catholic so im not sure if other churches do that, its a sacrament i think... A hand full of statements are made, and you publicly confirm them... Like, do u believe in God, i do... Do u reject Satan, i do... Well thats all i though Christianity was and in many ways still do... Just the fundamentals... Thats why u may notice im rarely on these topics batting for a side

Man always wants an answer to everything, in science as well... And in that eagerness to find the truth mixed with some pride and other things caused man to fall into false beliefs... Easily done, just look at the false beliefs in modern medicine, and thats despite the observable evidence we have...

Knowledge is power and understanding is even more powerful but faith, i think, is the most powerful

Davy · Oct 28, 2020

Cristo Rei said:
Ye im not one to advocate for one or the other... On the balance of probability i might lean one way or the other but i can't say beyond reasonable doubt... If ur familiar with some law ul know what i mean...
Ignorance is bliss in many ways, im happy to just turn my hands to the sky and admit my ignorance to the Lord...
Cos how much do we really understand... How much are we capable of understanding... U know what I mean... Faith begins on the edges of understanding... If we understood it all we wouldn't need faith, true...

U know how Jesus says the Kingdom of God welcomes children... Well my understanding of advanced doctrines and theology is almost child like because i left when i was a teen and only fully returned 2 years back...

U know when u do your first confirmation? My parents are Catholic so im not sure if other churches do that, its a sacrament i think... A hand full of statements are made, and you publicly confirm them... Like, do u believe in God, i do... Do u reject Satan, i do... Well thats all i though Christianity was and in many ways still do... Just the fundamentals... Thats why u may notice im rarely on these topics batting for a side

Man always wants an answer to everything, in science as well... And in that eagerness to find the truth mixed with some pride and other things caused man to fall into false beliefs... Easily done, just look at the false beliefs in modern medicine, and thats despite the observable evidence we have...

Knowledge is power and understanding is even more powerful but faith, i think, is the most powerful

That's strange, just how much common sense does it require to read and heed what Lord Jesus said about His coming to gather His faithful AFTER... the tribulation??

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Some go on and on as if nobody can know, which is willful ignorance, because the timing was clearly given by Jesus Himself.

Cristo Rei · Oct 28, 2020

Davy said:
That's strange, just how much common sense does it require to read and heed what Lord Jesus said about His coming to gather His faithful AFTER... the tribulation??

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Some go on and on as if nobody can know, which is willful ignorance, because the timing was clearly given by Jesus Himself.

What exactly is strange about my admission of ignorance?
Like i said earlier, scripture tennis aint my thing and scripture can be used to supported either view...
If it was common sense there wouldn't be such disagreements... LoL... Everyone would be in agreement, right?
Man has studied this for thousands of years and there is a split jury

Perhaps your used to people being solidly entrenched in one position or the other rather that be inconclusive like myself?

I personally find it strange to find people advocating for one over another, beyond any reasonable doubt...
If opposing views have supporting scriptura then that already is reasonable doubt... If u understand the criminal justice standard of evidence then u would understand what im saying... If u don't then u may be confused and want to take a brief look into that...

Bobby Jo · Oct 28, 2020

Cristo Rei said:
...If it was common sense there wouldn't be such disagreements ... Everyone would be in agreement, right? ...

NOPE, -- because churches use "blackmail" to keep the parishioners in the pews, including that "Jesus could come tonite and you could be left behind because you weren't in the mid-week service".

Did you think that the HIRELINGS had YOUR best interests at heart, and had no dishonest motives?
Bobby Jo

Bobby Jo · Oct 28, 2020

Davy said:
Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

... knowing that although Trump was born in NYC, and became PRESIDENT of the United States, -- there was some 70 years between those cited circumstances; and 1,000 years between verses 29-30, and verse 31 which is a Post Millennial Kingdom ascension to the New Jerusalem.

... and we're only some 12 months until Verses 29-30.
Bobby Jo

marksman · Oct 29, 2020

Davy said:
You are blaspheming God, not me, when you throw such a title at me in mocking. I'm sure in time He will make you understand to not do that, not even in mocking someone.

None of what you say gives any support at all within God's written Word.

As for who recognizes the "times and the seasons" leading up to Christ's return, there are many, because those stay in God's Word instead of playing lolly-pops with men's traditions outside His Word like you do.

Are you saying that I cannot book a ticket and sit on your doorstep? By the way it sounds like your God is too small.

marksman · Oct 29, 2020

Davy said:
You are not going to change our Lord Jesus' command to watch involving the Signs of the end He gave, no matter how much you want to follow the foolish doctrines of men. You need to heed what He said about His coming to gather His servants AFTER... the tribulation per Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, and quit playing around with men's traditions that are designed to deceive.

Your word is my command, oh wise and knowable servant.

marksman · Oct 29, 2020

Davy said:
Such a rebellious comment that you 'think' you are directing at me, but you are actually mocking our Lord Jesus' command for His servants to 'watch', which it is His Message in His written Word that I spoke, and not my own.

Yes, I always rebel against know it alls. A habit of mine.

Cristo Rei · Oct 29, 2020

Bobby Jo said:
NOPE, -- because churches use "blackmail" to keep the parishioners in the pews, including that "Jesus could come tonite and you could be left behind because you weren't in the mid-week service".

Did you think that the HIRELINGS had YOUR best interests at heart, and had no dishonest motives?
Bobby Jo

I dunno... You've lost me there

Brakelite · Oct 29, 2020

Davy said:
Could be you don't really understand what the resurrection in 1 Thessalonians 4 and 1 Corinthians 15 is about?

Could be I understand far more than you. You are not infallible, although you speak like you are. You'd make a great pope.

Davy said:
On earth is where He and His faithful will reign for the "thousand years" of Rev.20.

Well, good luck with that. You are welcome to remain on earth if that is your wish. After the last plagues you realise the earth and everything on it will be toast right? Broken, corrupted, filled with nuclear waste and toxic chemicals, millions of unburied bodies all stinking and decaying. The tectonic plates and continents no where where they once were, no animal or human life, the cities and everything in them destroyed and uninhabitable. I could go on but I think you get the picture.

Davy said:
May God rebuke you too for such mocking.

I would far prefer His rebuke than your pontificating.

Davy · Oct 29, 2020

Cristo Rei said:
What exactly is strange about my admission of ignorance?

James 1:5-8
5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
KJV

Davy · Oct 29, 2020

Bobby Jo said:
... knowing that although Trump was born in NYC, and became PRESIDENT of the United States, -- there was some 70 years between those cited circumstances; and 1,000 years between verses 29-30, and verse 31 which is a Post Millennial Kingdom ascension to the New Jerusalem.

... and we're only some 12 months until Verses 29-30.
Bobby Jo

Nothing there in those Matt.24:29-31 verses about a thousand years in between those events. Nor is there any evidence of such an idea anywhere else in God's written Word.

Davy · Oct 29, 2020

marksman said:
Yes, I always rebel against know it alls. A habit of mine.

But you're not rebelling against me, you are rebelling against yourself, you just don't know it yet, you rebel without a cause.

Davy · Oct 29, 2020

Backlit said:
Could be I understand far more than you. You are not infallible, although you speak like you are. You'd make a great pope.

Well, good luck with that. You are welcome to remain on earth if that is your wish. After the last plagues you realise the earth and everything on it will be toast right? Broken, corrupted, filled with nuclear waste and toxic chemicals, millions of unburied bodies all stinking and decaying. The tectonic plates and continents no where where they once were, no animal or human life, the cities and everything in them destroyed and uninhabitable. I could go on but I think you get the picture.

I would far prefer His rebuke than your pontificating.

God's Word is infallible, I'm not, I never claimed to be, so I don't know why you've gone off in la-la land instead of keeping to the subject of Bible Scripture.

marksman · Oct 31, 2020

Davy said:
But you're not rebelling against me, you are rebelling against yourself, you just don't know it yet, you rebel without a cause.

Yeah. I was a fan of James Dean.

Enoch111 · Oct 31, 2020

Davy said:
Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

The "elect" mentioned here should not be confused with the Church, nor should this event be confused with the Resurrection/Rapture.

This is a reference to the gathering of the believing remnant of Israel to the land of Israel AFTER the Second Coming of Christ.

But at the Second Coming , Christ comes WITH His saints and angels. These saints are the Church, the Body of Christ.

...and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. (Zech 14:5)

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Jude 1:14,15)

Behold, he cometh with clouds [OF SAINTS AND ANGELS]; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (Rev 1:7)

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. (Rev 19:14)

Michiah-Imla · Oct 31, 2020

Enoch111 said:
The "elect" mentioned here should not be confused with the Church, nor should this event be confused with the Resurrection/Rapture.

The elect here is in fact the “church”.

Confusion only comes when you stray from the scriptures.

It is simple.

We are waiting for Christ’s coming (Colossians 3:4; 1 Thessalonians 1:10; 1 Corinthians 1:7).

After the tribulation Christ comes (Matthew 24:30) to destroy that man of sin (2 Thessalonians 2:8; Revelation 19:20) and at this time the saints are caught up to be with Christ (1 Thessalonians 4:17) and will reign with him on earth 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4).

Seek no further. Man will lead you into error.

Reggie Belafonte · Oct 31, 2020

You reap what you sow. that's why God allows.

From what I have found is that people who are wanting the 2ed coming are looking for a flogging, because they lack faith in Christ Jesus. they do not know Jesus is the Christ in fact, they are waiting for him. they do not serve him in fact.

Taken · Oct 31, 2020

Davy said:
That's strange, just how much common sense does it require to read and heed what Lord Jesus said about His coming to gather His faithful AFTER... the tribulation??

Simple Observation-

Davy-
You seriously MISS the Big Picture.
You seriously MISS WHY it is so easy to NOT consider what you teach/preach.

You teach, preach, accuse, object, deny,
ALL from a Minds, Logical, common sense Perspective.

Scriptural Teaching HANGS ON The Very Specific True Thoughts OF THE "Spiritual" HEART!
(NOT a natural man's Mindful, logical, common sense Carnal Mind).

Until you can become resigned to the Fact...
The Mind is not The Avenue to Understanding Spiritual Things, you will repeatedly be in disagreement with men (and they with you), regarding Spiritual things.

And BTW- A man MADE WHOLE IN Christ IS a Spiritual Event for THAT man.
And THAT man, MADE WHOLE, will experience Other Spiritual Events (that Does NOT Apply TO other men who are NOT MADE WHOLE.)

Glory to God,
Taken

Taken · Oct 31, 2020

Reggie Belafonte said:
You reap what you sow. that's why God allows.

From what I have found is that people who are wanting the 2ed coming are looking for a flogging, because they lack faith in Christ Jesus. they do not know Jesus is the Christ in fact, they are waiting for him. they do not serve him in fact.

People have reduced the Big Picture to:
Jesus came.
Jesus saved.
Jesus left.
Jesus is coming back to collect the Saved.

The "Specific" Details and Order and WAY have Become but an "insignificant blur" in the Big Picture... of "no need to know."

Observe this OP for Example.
Started BY Davy.

* Pre-Trib Rapture Lie Claim.
* A Supposed Lie... Supposedly Proved ...
BY Jesus returning To Earth
BY Jesus ON Earth ...Gathering Saints After the Trib.

Here is the Utter Ignorance of that Claim-

The Catching UP (Rapture)
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Lord in Heaven (NOT Son of Man in Heaven)
Lord descends From Heaven
Lord descends To Clouds. (NOT Earth)
Lord SHOUTS
Voice of Archangel
Trump of God sounded (NOT LAST Trump)
Dead (Body's) IN Christ Rise Up from Earth TO Clouds. (NOT calling Saints)
ALIVE Living Body's IN Christ Rise UP TO Clouds. (NOT calling Saints)
WE...IN Christ, (dead Body's/Living Body's ) RISE UP to Meet the "Lord"...Who IS IN the Clouds.

The Fact IS the OP-
Completely changes the Entire Event- Scenario- Place- Who- What- When...
And the calls it a Lie!

It is Son of Man that came to Earth, Left Earth Returned to Heaven, sits IN Heaven and Shall Return "To Earth."

Matt 18:
[11] For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

John 6:
[62] What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

John 3:
[13] And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that [/B] came down [/B] from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Matt 16:
[27] For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

When a man has to Completely Change the FACTS...to preach a False narrative...His preaching...(not Scripture)...should immediately Be Suspect.

Glory to God,
Taken

Why Does God Allow The False Pre-trib Rapture Lie?

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