Do you know the real Jesus ?

ChristisGod · Nov 8, 2020

Jane_Doe22 said:
Would you mind if I ask you a different question?
To what degree do you believe that a person's imperfect academic understanding of Christ invalidates that person's salvation?
If you want a tactile example, see my modulist one earlier in this thread.

its not so much the academic side as it is in the real Jesus and discerning Him from a false christ and teachings. we can believe in our heart something is true when its not. there are many sincere people caught up in cults who believe in their hearts they are serving God when in reality they are serving false gods/christs. so these discussion allow us to discuss the truth concerning Jesus from the scriptures which is the standard for truth.

hope this helps !!!

ChristisGod · Nov 8, 2020

Jennifera198337 said:
If you believe Jesus is God then you believe in a false Christ. Jesus is not God. He's the son and that's where many of you got it wrong and how I know you don't know God. The one we suppose to be reconcile to and have a relationship with. Jesus only said if you have seen me you seen the father to only mean that "if I exist you know my father exist". Jesus was never God. He was always the son like we were always God's children. It's like going to McDonald's and asking just for a burger when you know that got fries there already. Lol that's what Jesus meant..if you see him then his father must exist. There's only one God and it's not Jesus. It's the father. I'm sure Jesus is sonly enough to screw up and be corrected by his father just like us if he did indeed needed correction. That's why the bible says we shall be as he is when we see him cause he is just like us when we become legitimate children of God.

If you deny Jesus is God then you are dead in your sins. John 8:24

Isaiah 44:6
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
'I am the first and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me.

Isaiah 48:12
"Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called;
I am He, I am the first, I am also the last.

John 8:24
I told you that you would die in your sins. Yes, if you don't believe that I AM(YHWH), you will die in your sins."

John 8:58
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I Am.(YHWH)"

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 20:28
Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

Romans 9:5
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ who is God over all forever praised! Amen.

Titus 2:13
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Christ Jesus

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Hebrews 1:8
But of the Son He says,
"YOUR THRONE O GOD IS FOREVER AND EVER

Hebrews 1:10
He also says,
"In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.

2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ
To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours

2 Peter 1:11
for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

1 John 5:20
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true even in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

These passages in Revelation make it clear that Jesus is God. Remember it is Jesus in the NT who is Coming back to earth that every eye will see. It was Jesus who was pierced on the cross for our sins. John is clearly once again calling Jesus God!!!!!!! The Coming and the coming in the clouds never refers to the Father in the NT but always to Jesus.

Revelation 1:7-8
7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
8 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

We know from Revelation 1:8 that Alpha and Omega is the Almighty. So we can see that Christ is the Almighty

Revelation 1:17
17And when I saw Him, I fell at his feet as dead. And He laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I Am the first and the last:

We know from Revelation 1:17-18 that the first and the last is He that liveth, was dead, but is alive forevermore is Christ.

Revelation 22:12-13
12 "Behold, I Am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. 13 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

We know from Revelation 22:13 that the first and the last is the Alpha and Omega.

Revelation 22:16,20
16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."
20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I Am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

Conclusion: So we can see that the One who comes/is coming in the NT always refers to Jesus the Son of Man and NEVER refers to the Father. Therefore we can conclude it is Jesus who is coming whom John calls God the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last.. This is sound biblical exegesis based on the context of the passage as well as the principle established in both Testaments on the One who is Coming in/with the Clouds- The Son of Man not the Father !!!!!!

Will you confess Jesus is your God, if not then you are not saved. No man can say Jesus is Lord(YHWH) except by the Spirit !

hope this helps !!!

Jennifera198337 · Nov 8, 2020

Christophany said:
If you deny Jesus is God then you are dead in your sins. John 8:24

Isaiah 44:6
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
'I am the first and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me.

Isaiah 48:12
"Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called;
I am He, I am the first, I am also the last.

John 8:24
I told you that you would die in your sins. Yes, if you don't believe that I AM(YHWH), you will die in your sins."

John 8:58
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I Am.(YHWH)"

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 20:28
Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

Romans 9:5
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ who is God over all forever praised! Amen.

Titus 2:13
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Christ Jesus

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Hebrews 1:8
But of the Son He says,
"YOUR THRONE O GOD IS FOREVER AND EVER

Hebrews 1:10
He also says,
"In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.

2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ
To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours

2 Peter 1:11
for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

1 John 5:20
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true even in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

These passages in Revelation make it clear that Jesus is God. Remember it is Jesus in the NT who is Coming back to earth that every eye will see. It was Jesus who was pierced on the cross for our sins. John is clearly once again calling Jesus God!!!!!!! The Coming and the coming in the clouds never refers to the Father in the NT but always to Jesus.

Revelation 1:7-8
7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
8 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

We know from Revelation 1:8 that Alpha and Omega is the Almighty. So we can see that Christ is the Almighty

Revelation 1:17
17And when I saw Him, I fell at his feet as dead. And He laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I Am the first and the last:

We know from Revelation 1:17-18 that the first and the last is He that liveth, was dead, but is alive forevermore is Christ.

Revelation 22:12-13
12 "Behold, I Am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. 13 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

We know from Revelation 22:13 that the first and the last is the Alpha and Omega.

Revelation 22:16,20
16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."
20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I Am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

Conclusion: So we can see that the One who comes/is coming in the NT always refers to Jesus the Son of Man and NEVER refers to the Father. Therefore we can conclude it is Jesus who is coming whom John calls God the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last.. This is sound biblical exegesis based on the context of the passage as well as the principle established in both Testaments on the One who is Coming in/with the Clouds- The Son of Man not the Father !!!!!!

Will you confess Jesus is your God, if not then you are not saved. No man can say Jesus is Lord(YHWH) except by the Spirit !

hope this helps !!!

He was talking about himself as the Messiah. The only time Jesus was God is when God was speaking thru him. That's why he said the power of God has come upon you. He was talking about the holy spirit and when the holy spirit speaks you hear the truth. The real truth from God. It's like the kingdom coming to you but only in the power of God. No that's God the father speaking in Isaiah 44. He was the king of Isreal when he led the israelites out of egypt etc. God is Lord over all even Jesus. Jesus is only Lord over us.

Brakelite · Nov 8, 2020

Christophany said:
Below we see there are false christs, another jesus, antichrists, false prophets with false christs etc......

How do we know we have the right Jesus ?

What do you use to determine that you believe in the real Jesus ?

Can belief in a false christ save you ?

Matthew 24:24
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible.

Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

2 Corinthians 11:4
For if someone comes and proclaims a Jesus other than the One we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit than the One you received, or a different gospel than the one you accepted, you put up with it way too easily.

You happily put up with whatever anyone tells you, even if they preach a different Jesus than the one we preach, or a different kind of Spirit than the one you received, or a different kind of gospel than the one you believed. NLT

1 John 2:18
Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour.

hope this helps !!!

Good questions.

07-07-07 · Nov 8, 2020

Believing in a false Christ that one can sin their way into Heaven is surely the road to damnation.

John 8
[31] Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
[32] And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
[33] They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
[34] Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
[35] And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
[36] If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Jane_Doe22 · Nov 8, 2020

Christophany said:
its not so much the academic side as it is in the real Jesus and discerning Him from a false christ and teachings. we can believe in our heart something is true when its not. there are many sincere people caught up in cults who believe in their hearts they are serving God when in reality they are serving false gods/christs. so these discussion allow us to discuss the truth concerning Jesus from the scriptures which is the standard for truth.

hope this helps !!!

Would you care to address my modulist example?

ChristisGod · Nov 8, 2020

Jennifera198337 said:
He was talking about himself as the Messiah. The only time Jesus was God is when God was speaking thru him. That's why he said the power of God has come upon you. He was talking about the holy spirit and when the holy spirit speaks you hear the truth. The real truth from God. It's like the kingdom coming to you but only in the power of God. No that's God the father speaking in Isaiah 44. He was the king of Isreal when he led the israelites out of egypt etc. God is Lord over all even Jesus. Jesus is only Lord over us.

Actually the bible declares Jesus is the ONLY SOVEREIGN and LORD. Jude 1:4

Paul declares one must confess Jesus is YHWH(LORD) to be saved.

Joel 2:32
32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Will be delivered;

Here we see Paul quote this OT passage about YHWH and apply it to Jesus who is the one and only Lord according to the N.T.

Rom 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

So a person must confess Jesus is YHWH(Lord) to be saved. Confess means to agree with so the person confessing Jesus is Lord is in agreement that He is YHWH. Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord ( YHWH) will be saved.

If you deny He is LORD(YHWH) you are not saved.

hope this helps !!!

ChristisGod · Nov 8, 2020

Jane_Doe22 said:
Would you care to address my modulist example?

for what purpose ?

ChristisGod · Nov 8, 2020

07-07-07 said:
Believing in a false Christ that one can sin their way into Heaven is surely the road to damnation.

John 8
[31] Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
[32] And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
[33] They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
[34] Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
[35] And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
[36] If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

I'm not aware of anyone teaching that , are you ?

Care to address the OP and who Jesus is ?

Is He God Incarnate ?

Is He still God Incarnate ?

Is He still fully God and fully man, a human with a real tangible body ?

hope this helps !!!

Jane_Doe22 · Nov 8, 2020

Christophany said:
for what purpose ?

I am trying to understand your view here.

07-07-07 · Nov 8, 2020

Christophany said:
I'm not aware of anyone teaching that , are you ?

Care to address the OP and who Jesus is ?

Is He God Incarnate ?

Is He still God Incarnate ?

Is He still fully God and fully man, a human with a real tangible body ?

hope this helps !!!

OP: Do you know the real Jesus ?

The real Jesus is found in the Scripture provided. Jesus came to set the captives free, to go and sin no more. They have a new love, Jesus, and no longer are servants to sin, but to the living God. The Son has set them free indeed.

ChristisGod · Nov 8, 2020

07-07-07 said:
OP: Do you know the real Jesus ?

The real Jesus is found in the Scripture provided. Jesus came to set the captives free, to go and sin no more. They have a new love, Jesus, and no longer are servants to sin, but to the living God. The Son has set them free indeed.

Of course He did.

Is He God Incarnate ?

Is He still God Incarnate ?

Is He still fully God and fully man, a human with a real tangible body ?

hope this helps !!!

ChristisGod · Nov 8, 2020

Jane_Doe22 said:
I am trying to understand your view here.

The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Father, the Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son. Jesus and the Apostles make this clear in numerous passages.

Oneness, Sabellianism, Monarchianism, Modalism are false and condemned in the early church counsels.

hope this helps !!!

Jane_Doe22 · Nov 8, 2020

Christophany said:
The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Father, the Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son. Jesus and the Apostles make this clear in numerous passages.

hope this helps !!!

That wasn’t my question. My question is: do you believe a modulist is not saved because of their flawed academic understanding of Christ?

ChristisGod · Nov 8, 2020

Jane_Doe22 said:
That wasn’t my question. My question is: do you believe a modulist is not saved because of their flawed academic understanding of Christ?

I don't know how many time I would need to say this but I will once again.

A false god or a false christ cannot save a person no more than trusting in a false gospel can save a person.

hope this helps !!!

Jane_Doe22 · Nov 8, 2020

Christophany said:
I don't know how many time I would need to say this but I will once again.

A false god or a false christ cannot save a person no more than trusting in a false gospel can save a person.

hope this helps !!!

Ok. To me: I see a modulist confess thier love of Christ, striving to follow Him, etc. I do indeed acknowledge the fact that they are Christians, albeit with major flaws in thier academic theology. But salvation isn’t dependent on man’s ability to pass a theology test. And I do passionately disagree with camps that try to make it thus.

ChristisGod · Nov 8, 2020

Jane_Doe22 said:
Ok. To me: I see a modulist confess thier love of Christ, striving to follow Him, etc. I do indeed acknowledge the fact that they are Christians, albeit with major flaws in thier academic theology. But salvation isn’t dependent on man’s ability to pass a theology test. And I do passionately disagree with camps that try to make it thus.

so do mormons and JW's they sincerely follow who they believe Jesus to be according to their teachings. the same is true with modalists.

Jane_Doe22 · Nov 8, 2020

Christophany said:
so do mormons and JW's they sincerely follow who they believe Jesus to be according to their teachings. the same is true with modalists.

+ Athanasians + Calvinists + Catholics + a million others.

And ALL of those people are CHRISTIANS fully capable of having SAVING relationships with Christ.

Salvation is first and foremost about embracing Christ. Not a person's ability to pass some scantron theology test.

ChristisGod · Nov 8, 2020

Jane_Doe22 said:
And ALL of those people are CHRISTIANS fully capable of having SAVING relationships with Christ.

Salvation is first and foremost about embracing Christ. Not a person's ability to pass some scantron theology test.

so all the mormons and JW's are saved correct ?

Jane_Doe22 · Nov 8, 2020

Christophany said:
so all the mormons and JW's are saved correct ?

Same as Athanasians + Calvinists + Catholics + "anti-cultists" + a million others: all can embrace Christ as have a saving relationship with Him.

Note: I'm not saying all because that would imply sitting on a pew equates to salvation- it does not. And their are folks in each group that really are just being bench warmers.

Do you know the real Jesus ?

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