The Trinity definition
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No, you're correlating passages that first, don't belong, and when they do, you fail to see how each individual context demands a variance in interpretation. You are assuming that your hermeneutics are viable, they are not.
You apparently don't understand what I'm saying.
Jesus, though being God, came to earth to live as a man. Not as a man with God's powers, but just as a man. He nonetheless knew Who He is, and knowing this never wavered from Who He is. It makes no sense to you, maybe, but it makes wonderful sense to me.
Because as Jesus lived His life here as a man, and overcame this world, I, a man, can overcome this world. Never, never on my own! But in Him. No man has ever overcome this world on their own, except Jesus, and this is the difference. He is the Lord of Heaven, come into the world to begin a new humanity in Him. So as we are immersed into Him, we not only share in His righteous life, we also partake of His divine nature, through - what? Through His great and precious promises. Promises!
Knowing who we are, a new creation, who is dead to sin. We life according to our faith in what God has done, that is, in the knowledge of who we are, His children. And in this we live victorious, not in our own power, Just as Jesus, Who did nothing of Himself. As He lived, we can live, but no man lived that way, only Jesus.
He wasn't trying to not be God, or to pretend He wasn't God. He put aside the advantage of being God, and submitted Himself. Perfectly. Fulfilled all righteousness, all the time, perfectly, from a perfect heart.
Much love!
Yes, APAK, agreed, that was very insightful on @jaybird 's part. A very critical point that, in the most bizarre manner, is used by god-man theorists to justify Christ's deity. And yet, as jaybird clarified, it fundamentally declares Jesus' unadulterated humanity.
101G
Well-Known Member
Correct, because he did not raise "HIMSELF" from the dead, he "RAISE" his temple/ body from the dead. for the First death is of the Body, and not the spirit. scripture, James 2:26 "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."
not the spirt without the body is DEAD, no, the BODY, the BODY, without the spirit is dead. BINGO.
so you're on point Matt M, "God has made foolish the wisdom of this world."
people need to understand the "FIRST" death, vs the second death.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
But, touché marks, you do not understand what I am saying. All you did was delineate a logistic, that you claim is perfectly comprehensible to you, ...but, is it meaningful? Personally, I don't believe that for one second that you understand this, on the level that it should be understood. God did not come to earth as a man, and hold back his divine attributes, because a man was needed to appease His wrath. But also, because God was needed to appease His wrath, because allegedly, man's sin against God was so egregious, that only God could rectify the offense directed at Him.
Are you anywhere close to appreciating the ludicrousness of your premise, and the mockery that you make of God by ascribing such nonsense to Him?
Not in this manner, He didn't! You are confusing two very distinct principles. Paul was declaring that the wise of the world do not comprehend God's wisdom, but the spiritually wise do, including himself. In this context, he never once said that God's ways are beyond figuring out, but that God's wisdom separates the sheep from the goats - some do actually understand it and praise God accordingly.
You used the wrong verse to support your case. Everything that God did throughout the Bible, made sense and brought Him glory because of it, either in retrospect or contemporaneously. The trinity has elucidated nothing fathomable to man, and has only caused its proponents to capitulate into expressing it as an inexplicable mystery - no glory anywhere for God.
...because it is unteachable, Mattathias. It invariably raises more questions than it can possibly answer, leaving its proponents as nothing more than a bunch of bewildered lemmings following man's explanation, rather than humbly trying to discern the mystery of the suffering Messiah - the pre-eminent creature that God loved so much, that he handed over to him the keys of the universe.
I can say unequivocally that I understand the Trinity.
Have you read my explanation of it in the thread that I provided for you?
(posts #1-#6):
True Trinity.
It is a non-sequitur because, your context and comprehension is incorrect
(re-post)
You are confusing two very distinct principles. Paul was declaring that the wise of the world do not comprehend God's wisdom, but the spiritually wise do, including himself. In this context, he never once said that God's ways are beyond figuring out, but that God's wisdom separates the sheep from the goats - some do actually understand it and praise God accordingly.
You used the wrong verse to support your case. Everything that God did throughout the Bible, made sense and brought Him glory because of it, either in retrospect or contemporaneously. The trinity has elucidated nothing fathomable to man, and has only caused its proponents to capitulate into expressing it as an inexplicable mystery - no glory anywhere for God.
You appear to have an inaccurate understanding of my view.
I believe that humanity died from Adam's sin. That our lives are lived in a living death, and will end with physical death, and no hope of life and fellowship with God, as a part of Adam's humanity. In Christ's death, we can join Him in death, and through that death, exit from dead humanity.
We are no longer children of Adam, but we become children of God. Jesus is the Son of God, and in Him, we share what He has, we become sons of God, born of Him united with God, immersed into Jesus - united with God, being immersed into Jesus.
Much love!
Isaiah 59:1-17
1) Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
2) But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
3) For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness.
4) None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.
5) They hatch cockatrice' eggs, and weave the spider's web: he that eateth of their eggs dieth, and that which is crushed breaketh out into a viper.
6) Their webs shall not become garments, neither shall they cover themselves with their works: their works are works of iniquity, and the act of violence is in their hands.
7) Their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent blood: their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity; wasting and destruction are in their paths.
8) The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace.
9) Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth justice overtake us: we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness, but we walk in darkness.
10) We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes: we stumble at noonday as in the night; we are in desolate places as dead men.
11) We roar all like bears, and mourn sore like doves: we look for judgment, but there is none; for salvation, but it is far off from us.
12) For our transgressions are multiplied before thee, and our sins testify against us: for our transgressions are with us; and as for our iniquities, we know them;
13) In transgressing and lying against the LORD, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood.
14) And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.
15) Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.
16) And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.
17) For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke.
I hope you don't find this superfluous.
Much love!
I am sorry, I have anything but a low opinion of you, marks. I should have reworded my expressions so that they were directed at trinitarian thought, not any one specific person. Is it possible that you may not have a conventional understanding of the trinity, so that my contentions are not having the impact that I would expect from a reasonable person?
The understanding, to a trinitarian, that Jesus had to be both God and man in order to obey God, and to be an uber-perfect sacrifice because disobeying God caused a cosmological and metaphysical cataclysm in the universe (yes, sarcasm for emphasis).
This is the traditional argument for the necessity of God dying for our sins - yes, I can barely even say it.
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