Jesus Is A God Of Conditional Love, Not Unconditional Love.

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

ozell

New Member
Jun 6, 2010
46
3
0
yet you find the the Lord saying "MY WAYS"


1Kgs 3:14 And if thou wilt walk in my ways, to keep my statutes and my commandments, as thy father David did walk, then I will lengthen thy days.

1Kgs 11:33 Because that they have forsaken me, and have worshipped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Milcom the god of the children of Ammon, and have not walked in my ways, to do that which is right in mine eyes, and to keep my statutes and my judgments, as did David his father.

1Kgs 11:38 And it shall be, if thou wilt hearken unto all that I command thee, and wilt walk in my ways, and do that is right in my sight, to keep my statutes and my commandments, as David my servant did; that I will be with thee, and build thee a sure house, as I built for David, and will give Israel unto thee.

Job 31:4 Doth not he see my ways, and count all my steps?

Ps 39:1 I said, I will take heed to my ways, that I sin not with my tongue: I will keep my mouth with a bridle, while the wicked is before me.

Ps 81:13 Oh that my people had hearkened unto me, and Israel had walked in my ways!

Ps 95:10 Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:

Ps 119:5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!

Ps 119:26 I have declared my ways, and thou heardest me: teach me thy statutes.

Ps 119:59 I thought on my ways, and turned my feet unto thy testimonies.

Ps 119:168 I have kept thy precepts and thy testimonies: for all my ways are before thee.

Ps 139:3 Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways.

Prov 8:32 Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.

Prov 23:26 My son, give me thine heart, and let thine eyes observe my ways.

Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Isa 58:2 Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God.

Lam 3:9 He hath inclosed my ways with hewn stone, he hath made my paths crooked.

Lam 3:11 He hath turned aside my ways, and pulled me in pieces: he hath made me desolate.

Ezek 18:29 Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?

Zech 3:7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by.

Mal 2:9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ozell

gator347

New Member
May 7, 2008
76
3
0
64
God is an ALL loving God.

But he is also a just God.

Thus, we will be held accountable for everything we have done, are doing, and will do.

But if we are saved, ALL the penalties have already been paid for.

As for Evil, it is absence of God. As for Hell, it is to be separated from God. Thus, Hell is totally Evil.
 

[email protected]

Choir Loft
Apr 2, 2009
1,635
127
63
West Central Florida
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Jesus is a God of conditional Love, not unconditional love.

God's love requires us to keep his commandments.[/size]

No argument with this at all.

Unfortunately the notion does a complete fly over in our modern age of prideful decadence and debauchery.
How dare you say such a thing and spoil the mood of the party.
 

bling

New Member
May 5, 2009
135
5
0
But is hell a place void of God's love?

God created Hell out of Love for those that would accept His help. Hell lets those that will Love God know how bad sin is and thus be forgiven of much and love much.
Earth is a place where we can obtain Godly type Love, so even though God’s love is all around us we do not have to accept it, but can accept it by our choice. Heaven is one huge Love Feast. Hell is where God is not and the people there did not want Godly type love and would not be happy if that was all there was (they want a selfish type of Love that cannot dwell in heaven). God is Love so He does not dwell in hell, so there is nothing good in hell and nothing will last forever without God’s help.
 

jiggyfly

New Member
Nov 27, 2009
2,750
86
0
63
North Carolina
God created Hell out of Love for those that would accept His help. Hell lets those that will Love God know how bad sin is and thus be forgiven of much and love much.
Earth is a place where we can obtain Godly type Love, so even though God’s love is all around us we do not have to accept it, but can accept it by our choice. Heaven is one huge Love Feast. Hell is where God is not and the people there did not want Godly type love and would not be happy if that was all there was (they want a selfish type of Love that cannot dwell in heaven). God is Love so He does not dwell in hell, so there is nothing good in hell and nothing will last forever without God’s help.

So I assume by your post that you don't believe that God is omnipresent and it seems you disagree with Paul about God's love.
smile.gif
 

bling

New Member
May 5, 2009
135
5
0
So I assume by your post that you don't believe that God is omnipresent and it seems you disagree with Paul about God's love.
smile.gif

In what way am I in disagreement with Paul in defining Godlt ype Love?

I think God can go any where he wants , but does not have to be "omnipresent" like you are using it. God has chosen not to be in hell.

I also do not think "hell" is some eternal place or sinful man is eternal, but hell will burn everything up eventually.
 

gator347

New Member
May 7, 2008
76
3
0
64
In what way am I in disagreement with Paul in defining Godlt ype Love?

I think God can go any where he wants , but does not have to be "omnipresent" like you are using it. God has chosen not to be in hell.

I also do not think "hell" is some eternal place or sinful man is eternal, but hell will burn everything up eventually.


As for Evil, it is absence of God. As for Hell, it is to be separated from God. Thus, Hell is totally Evil
 

jiggyfly

New Member
Nov 27, 2009
2,750
86
0
63
North Carolina
In what way am I in disagreement with Paul in defining Godlt ype Love?

And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from his love. Death can't, and life can't. The angels can't, and the demons can't. Our fears for today, our worries about tomorrow, and even the powers of hell can't keep God's love away. Whether we are high above the sky or in the deepest ocean, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38&39
[font="'trebuchet ms"]
[/font]
[font="'trebuchet ms"]
I think God can go any where he wants , but does not have to be "omnipresent" like you are using it. God has chosen not to be in hell.

I also do not think "hell" is some eternal place or sinful man is eternal, but hell will burn everything up eventually.
[/font]
[font="'trebuchet ms"][font="Verdana][size="3"]
[/font]
[/size][/font]
[font="'trebuchet ms"][font="Verdana][size="3"]If I ascend up into heaven, thou [art] there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou [art there]. Psalms 139:8
[/font]
[/size][/font]
[font="'trebuchet ms"]
[/font]
[font="'trebuchet ms"]
[/font]





As for Evil, it is absence of God. As for Hell, it is to be separated from God. Thus, Hell is totally Evil

May I ask the source that you formed you opinion of hell?
smile.gif
 
  • Like
Reactions: bling

truthquest

Well-Known Member
May 23, 2010
846
780
93
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from his love. Death can't, and life can't. The angels can't, and the demons can't. Our fears for today, our worries about tomorrow, and even the powers of hell can't keep God's love away. Whether we are high above the sky or in the deepest ocean, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38&39


[font="Verdana] [/font][/size][/size][/font]That is one of my favorites, Jigglyfly, and I included it in some of my slide shows. :)
[sup]38[/sup]For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, [sup]39[/sup]neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
[font="trebuchet ms"][font="Verdana] [/font][/size][/size][/font]
[font="trebuchet ms"]

 

fivesense

New Member
Mar 7, 2010
636
24
0
WI
In what way am I in disagreement with Paul in defining Godlt ype Love?

I think God can go any where he wants , but does not have to be "omnipresent" like you are using it. God has chosen not to be in hell.

I also do not think "hell" is some eternal place or sinful man is eternal, but hell will burn everything up eventually.


I think what you meant to say is the lake of fire, the second death, is what will burn everything up eventually. Hell, or sheol, has no fire contained within it. Gehenna is mistranslated "hell," and that will be definitely burning in the age to come when the Lord reigns on earth for the thousand years. It will be quite a site I am sure. Certains sins that are unto death will find satisfaction there.

1C 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him;
and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.
Howbeit [there is] not in every man that knowledge:

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.

God did not create the universe out of nothing. It says that it was created out of Him,

Ro 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, [are] all things: to whom [be] glory for ever. Amen.

It is a moot point, whether God may come and go as He pleases, which He could do if he were a man. But He is not. He is Spirit.

Ac 17:28 for in Him we live, and move, and are; as also certain of your poets have said: For of Him also we are offspring.

That God has chosen not to be in "hell" is nonsensical. Hades is the unperceived, it is oblivion. Nothing is alive there, or lives there. Hence the God of the living has no interest in it. It is not a geographical location. Gehenna, which is not yet existing, will be a physical instrument of judgment during Christs earthly reign through Israel. I doubt that either Christ or His God and Father will spend much time there either. In any case, after dying in Gehenna's massive firepit, the soul departs to hades once more anyway, until the second resurrection to condemnation at the White Throne.
 

Adstar

New Member
Sep 17, 2009
286
6
0
Did Saul (Paul) come to Him?
smile.gif

When He got knocked off His horse He repented and submitted to Him.

Before this Saul was genuine in His belief that the message the followers of Jesus where giving was false. He persecuted the followers of Jesus out of a genuine conviction that He was doing Gods will. God knew this and decided to have mercy upon Him. So be it.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 

jiggyfly

New Member
Nov 27, 2009
2,750
86
0
63
North Carolina
When He got knocked off His horse He repented and submitted to Him.

Before this Saul was genuine in His belief that the message the followers of Jesus where giving was false. He persecuted the followers of Jesus out of a genuine conviction that He was doing Gods will. God knew this and decided to have mercy upon Him. So be it.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

But the truth of this event is that Paul did not come to God but rather God came to Paul.
smile.gif
 

fivesense

New Member
Mar 7, 2010
636
24
0
WI
When He got knocked off His horse He repented and submitted to Him.

Before this Saul was genuine in His belief that the message the followers of Jesus where giving was false. He persecuted the followers of Jesus out of a genuine conviction that He was doing Gods will. God knew this and decided to have mercy upon Him. So be it.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days


Adstar, you do well to reinstate the facts. I am excited for you in your retaining the truth. It forms the bond of cement between you and your God that some here would have you discard in favor of a nebulous and ethereal relationship based upon the unguided brain. He has spoken through His Word, the Scriptures, and is backing it up and illuminating it with Holy Spirit. If its not in the "Book", it is falsehood.

This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. 1Ti 1:15-16

Paul was speaking about his naughtiness towards God and the ecclesia. He was not looking for God, He was not anything less than a self-serving religious zealot, his interest in God was not according to truth, but tradition. He was not interested in repenting, He was not attempting to save himself from "hell", and he could have cared less about what people thought of Him.

This is the pattern that God has chosen for us.

Naughty people, self-serving people, unrepentant people. People steeped in sin and out of touch with reality.

These are the ones God has chosen to redeem, not the wise, not the strong, not the noble.

But the broken, blind, helpless idiots, who need to be raised up from the dirt and led by the hand in order to live unto God.

I do not trust the religious ones, the ones who seek to put God's people in a cage. May they join Saul in the crisis of defeat, that they may enter into faith and trust.

fivesense
 

jiggyfly

New Member
Nov 27, 2009
2,750
86
0
63
North Carolina
Adstar, you do well to reinstate the facts. I am excited for you in your retaining the truth. It forms the bond of cement between you and your God that some here would have you discard in favor of a nebulous and ethereal relationship based upon the unguided brain. He has spoken through His Word, the Scriptures, and is backing it up and illuminating it with Holy Spirit. If its not in the "Book", it is falsehood.

This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. 1Ti 1:15-16

Paul was speaking about his naughtiness towards God and the ecclesia. He was not looking for God, He was not anything less than a self-serving religious zealot, his interest in God was not according to truth, but tradition. He was not interested in repenting, He was not attempting to save himself from "hell", and he could have cared less about what people thought of Him.

This is the pattern that God has chosen for us.

Naughty people, self-serving people, unrepentant people. People steeped in sin and out of touch with reality.

These are the ones God has chosen to redeem, not the wise, not the strong, not the noble.

But the broken, blind, helpless idiots, who need to be raised up from the dirt and led by the hand in order to live unto God.

I do not trust the religious ones, the ones who seek to put God's people in a cage. May they join Saul in the crisis of defeat, that they may enter into faith and trust.

fivesense

Very good post Fivesense.
smile.gif
 

bling

New Member
May 5, 2009
135
5
0
And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from his love. Death can't, and life can't. The angels can't, and the demons can't. Our fears for today, our worries about tomorrow, and even the powers of hell can't keep God's love away. Whether we are high above the sky or in the deepest ocean, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38&39
[font="'trebuchet ms"]

Paul is addressing Christians “us” and not all people, in a very poetic way is saying nothing keeps God from Loving us, but we can keep from the acceptance of God’s Love. We still have free will.


[/font]
[font="'trebuchet ms"][/font]
[font="'trebuchet ms"][font="Verdana][size="3"]
[/font]
[/size][/font]
[font="'trebuchet ms"][font="Verdana][size="3"]If I ascend up into heaven, thou [art] there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou [art there]. Psalms 139:8
This is also a very poetic passage of David Hebrew, "Sheol." See the notes at Isaiah 14:9, where the word is fully explained. The word here refers to the under-world - the abodes of the dead; and, in the apprehension of the psalmist, corresponds in depth with the word "heaven" in height. The two represent all worlds, above and below; and the idea is, that in neither direction, above or below, could he go where God is not.

[/font]
[/size][/font]
[font="'trebuchet ms"]
[/font]
[font="'trebuchet ms"]
[/font]







smile.gif
 

fivesense

New Member
Mar 7, 2010
636
24
0
WI
Bling says,
" Paul is addressing Christians “us” and not all people, in a very poetic way is saying nothing keeps God from Loving us, but we can keep from the acceptance of God’s Love. We still have free will."


What shall we then say to these things? If God [be] for us, who [can be] against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? [It is] God that justifieth. Who [is] he that condemneth? [It is] Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. 8:31-8:39

It is fanciful to state that these passages are "poetic". They are statements of hard, cold facts. Trying to romanticize them is a disservice to God and and intellectual misstep at the very least. The matter of God justifying sinners on the basis of faith in Christ is serious and tremendous in its magnitude. Saying Paul was waxing poetic is nuts.

Free will is nowhere mentioned in these passages, so why even bring it up? What is your agenda, Bling? And where in all these references does it say, "nothing keeps God from loving us"? Where did you read that? Is it because you wished it said that, so you say it, thinking it is? Because it is not there. Read it again.


This is also a very poetic passage of David Hebrew, "Sheol." See the notes at Isaiah 14:9, where the word is fully explained. The word here refers to the under-world - the abodes of the dead; and, in the apprehension of the psalmist, corresponds in depth with the word "heaven" in height. The two represent all worlds, above and below; and the idea is, that in neither direction, above or below, could he go where God is not.

[/size][/size][/font][/size][/size][/font]

Sheol beneath hath been troubled at thee, To meet thy coming in, It is waking up for thee Rephaim, All chiefs ones of earth, It hath raised up from their thrones All kings of nations. YLT Isa 14:9

There are no "notes" in Isaiah 14, I looked. Neither does this passage explain the word sheol "fully".

I also could not find the word "underworld" in the Scriptures. You must have heard that somewhere and tried to get me to believe it's in the Bible. It is not. It is more like a myth or fable of some sort from the Greeks or Egyptians.

And where does it say that heaven and sheol (hell) are called "worlds" ? I can't find it in the Bible. Are you aware you are making things up, and trying to pawn them off as genuine truths? I don't think you are, at least I hope not.

fivesense
 

jiggyfly

New Member
Nov 27, 2009
2,750
86
0
63
North Carolina
Paul is addressing Christians “us” and not all people, in a very poetic way is saying nothing keeps God from Loving us, but we can keep from the acceptance of God’s Love. We still have free will.



[font="tahoma][color="#5D5D5D"]Actually Paul was addressing the believers in Rome in 57AD (approx.).[/color][/font]
[font="tahoma][color="#5D5D5D"]
[/color][/font]
[font="tahoma][color="#5D5D5D"]So do you believe that God does not love everyone? Do you believe that if someone chooses to ignore God that He stops loving them?[/color][/font]
[font="tahoma][color="#5D5D5D"]
[/color][/font]
[font="tahoma][color="#5D5D5D"]What do you think of this scripture?[/color][/font]
[font="tahoma][color="#5D5D5D"]For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect?[/color][/font]
 

bling

New Member
May 5, 2009
135
5
0



[font="tahoma][color="#5D5D5D"]Actually Paul was addressing the believers in Rome in 57AD (approx.).[/color][/font]
[font="tahoma][color="#5D5D5D"]
[/color][/font]
[font="tahoma][color="#5D5D5D"]So do you believe that God does not love everyone? Do you believe that if someone chooses to ignore God that He stops loving them?[/color][/font]
[font="tahoma][color="#5D5D5D"]
[/color][/font]
[font="tahoma][color="#5D5D5D"]What do you think of this scripture?[/color][/font]
[font="tahoma][color="#5D5D5D"]For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect?[/color][/font]

It is good to be specific and say 57 Ad Romans.

We are told to that our Love for our parents and family is a hatred in comparison to our Love for God. It is not so much how we feel but how strong God's Love is for us that makes the relationship so powerful. God Loves those that have gone to Hell, but the Loving relationship between God and believers is huge in comparison to the one way relationship between God and rejecters of His Love. There is really no relationship if someone rejects God's Love because God is Love, so they are on their own.

Bling says,
" Paul is addressing Christians “us” and not all people, in a very poetic way is saying nothing keeps God from Loving us, but we can keep from the acceptance of God’s Love. We still have free will."


What shall we then say to these things? If God [be] for us, who [can be] against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? [It is] God that justifieth. Who [is] he that condemneth? [It is] Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. 8:31-8:39

It is fanciful to state that these passages are "poetic". They are statements of hard, cold facts. Trying to romanticize them is a disservice to God and and intellectual misstep at the very least. The matter of God justifying sinners on the basis of faith in Christ is serious and tremendous in its magnitude. Saying Paul was waxing poetic is nuts.

Free will is nowhere mentioned in these passages, so why even bring it up? What is your agenda, Bling? And where in all these references does it say, "nothing keeps God from loving us"? Where did you read that? Is it because you wished it said that, so you say it, thinking it is? Because it is not there. Read it again.




Sheol beneath hath been troubled at thee, To meet thy coming in, It is waking up for thee Rephaim, All chiefs ones of earth, It hath raised up from their thrones All kings of nations. YLT Isa 14:9

There are no "notes" in Isaiah 14, I looked. Neither does this passage explain the word sheol "fully".

I also could not find the word "underworld" in the Scriptures. You must have heard that somewhere and tried to get me to believe it's in the Bible. It is not. It is more like a myth or fable of some sort from the Greeks or Egyptians.

And where does it say that heaven and sheol (hell) are called "worlds" ? I can't find it in the Bible. Are you aware you are making things up, and trying to pawn them off as genuine truths? I don't think you are, at least I hope not.

fivesense

We are trying to define hebrew words the way early Hebrews would have understood them. That I leave to scholars and read some of what they have written. Are you an expert in first century Hebrew literature?

As far as Paul's writing and how to interprete his words: I have been taught the 4 main principles to interpreting are context, context, context and context. Paul is not addressing nonbelievers.




[[font="tahoma][color="#5D5D5D"]For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect?[/color][/font]

Did not address this. God's faithfulness is not dependent on Humans in any way.
 

fivesense

New Member
Mar 7, 2010
636
24
0
WI
It is good to be specific and say 57 Ad Romans.

We are told to that our Love for our parents and family is a hatred in comparison to our Love for God. It is not so much how we feel but how strong God's Love is for us that makes the relationship so powerful. God Loves those that have gone to Hell, but the Loving relationship between God and believers is huge in comparison to the one way relationship between God and rejecters of His Love. There is really no relationship if someone rejects God's Love because God is Love, so they are on their own.
We are trying to define hebrew words the way early Hebrews would have understood them. That I leave to scholars and read some of what they have written. Are you an expert in first century Hebrew literature?
As far as Paul's writing and how to interprete his words: I have been taught the 4 main principles to interpreting are context, context, context and context. Paul is not addressing nonbelievers.

Did not address this. God's faithfulness is not dependent on Humans in any way.

I see.
fivesense
 

Grat

New Member
Feb 18, 2008
58
2
0
62
Sydney, Australia
As usual, great posts from all. It’s wonderful to see the depth and breadth of people in these forums.
All I can speak from is my understanding and experience. The God I have met is infinitely loving. His love and dedication knows no bounds.
The two biggest problems I have with God’s love being conditional is that firstly it’s unscriptural and secondly it removes all hope from all of us.
I don’t know what kind of supermen/women you lot are, but I have found that I cannot completely, 100% follow the Law (in any of the 1000 flavours you would like to present it in). I am human, mortal, limited and in a fallen world – it ‘aint gonna happen. My heart, my mind my flesh will betray me.
My joy, however, is in that I am fully accepted by God, not because of me but because of my lovely saviour, Jesus. Because of Jesus I now have full access to God and full acceptance. I don’t do what God wants out of duty or fear, but out of Love and respect. I am not bound by law, but lost in Love.
I don’t walk some jagged mountain top, fearful of toppling over into “sin” at any moment, but lie safe in my father’s arms.
From God’s heartfelt cry in the garden “Adam, where are you?”, through Job’s cry “Oh that there was a mediator between God and Man” to Jesus’ “It is finished” paints for us a portrait of a God who would not be separated from us – who literally moved heaven and earth to be with us.
It is we who try to manipulate by withholding our love, not God. I know this will offend some, but I cannot find another way of saying it. People mold their God in their own likeness and then find reasons to support it. But God will be God.