Pre-Destined Elect - simplified.

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justbyfaith

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2Sa 12:21, Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread.
2Sa 12:2, And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?
2Sa 12:23, But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

Was David's eternal destination hell?
 

justbyfaith

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God only accepts Faith to save you.
So, your teaching that "believing" isn't the way that God accepts you, is : Galatians 1:8
"cursed".

Its heresy to teach that "All that call upon the name of the Lord, shall be saved", isn't the Gospel.
Its heresy to teach that "as many as Received Jesus, to them God gave the Power to become the Son's of God", isn't the Gospel.
Its heresy to teach that """"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost """ isn't the Gospel.

So, dont teach that being baptized in water, is how to be saved, as that is not the Gospel of the Grace of God.

Acts 2:38 happened at a Jewish Feast, Pentecost, and only Jews were saved.
Later, Paul was given the "Gospel" and taught it to the Body of Christ", as what we understand now as "The Gospel of the Grace of God"..."Justification BY faith" if offered to EVERYONE.
All of those things are indeed the gospel.

It remains that the Holy Ghost is promised to those who will fulfill the condition for the promise, in Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39.
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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"Candidus,
And God is no Respecter of persons. So are you consistent and say that infants are in Hell?
Those who wrote the 1689 confession of faith had a better grasp of biblical salvation than you express;

3._____ Elect infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit; who worketh when, and where, and how he pleases;
so also are all elect persons, who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.
( John 3:3, 5, 6; John 3:8 )

Biblical Calvinists have a better grasp of scripture and here offered the only correct teaching on this anywhere.
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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"Nancy,

Not only the fact that the TULIP's say that the fact that He chooses some for heaven and some for hell but they say that those that are destined to burn-no matter their love of The Lord,

What foolish comments. Who do you see in scripture that Love the biblical God but are "destined to burn"?

You and others make unbiblical comments that No Calvinist makes. Can you post Calvinists saying what you say? What unsaved people love the biblical God???

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters,
haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


I find it not only a doctrine that strips so many of hope but also a doctrine of demons.

How does the truth of God strip so many of hope? It is the only hope being offered.
Why would you call the teaching that comes from God, doctrines of demons???How twisted.


I have had my issues with Calvinists in real life and it is not pretty...

Expressing such unbiblical ideas, are you surprised?
 

Truther

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God only accepts Faith to save you.
So, your teaching that "believing" isn't the way that God accepts you, is : Galatians 1:8
"cursed".

Its heresy to teach that "All that call upon the name of the Lord, shall be saved", isn't the Gospel.
Its heresy to teach that "as many as Received Jesus, to them God gave the Power to become the Son's of God", isn't the Gospel.
Its heresy to teach that """"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost """ isn't the Gospel.

So, dont teach that being baptized in water, is how to be saved, as that is not the Gospel of the Grace of God.

Acts 2:38 happened at a Jewish Feast, Pentecost, and only Jews were saved.
Later, Paul was given the "Gospel" and taught it to the Body of Christ", as what we understand now as "The Gospel of the Grace of God"..."Justification BY faith" if offered to EVERYONE.


16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Both are needed, at least Jesus said so.
 

Truther

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Truther,

God knows what you are thinking, while you are reading what i just typed to you.
God know how many breaths you'll take today till midnight.
God knows what you'll be doing 35 mins from now.
God knows not only your Thoughts, but your MOTIVES.

So, yeah, God is Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnipresent.
He's "GOD"..
Its all easy for Him....
Excellent post.
 

Nancy

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I hear you.

How can a hyper calvinist face God with a smile when all their life they accused God of doing the Devil's work of "ordaining evil" in the world.
Honestly, these people have a extreme comeuppance coming to them..
These hyper religious deceivers seem to think that there is no Devil, as they give God all the credit due Satan, for Satan's deeds.

Yep, pretty much!
 

brightfame52

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Here is a simplified understanding.

God does not pre-destine us to be SAVED, while others are pre-destined to be Damned.
Bottomline.

Let me bring this "pre-destined elect" Theology home to you reader.......
Do you have a mother, do you have a child, children? What if God pre-determined that you get to go to Heaven, while He pre-destined your mother and your children to burn in the lake of fire, and there is nothing they can do about it. They CAN'T BE SAVED because GOD WON'T LET THEM.
So, do you see the "crazy" in this Hyper-Calvinism Theology?
Welcome to "pre-destined elect", "elect" "elect" "elect" "elect" "elect" heresy.
I think this one is the worst of them all, regarding totally rejecting the New Testament.
Imagine a "gospel" that accuses God of ordaining all the "evil" in the world.
Imagine a "gospel" that teaches as its core theological principle that God chooses some for Heaven and chooses to burn others, and you are BORN to this "pre-destiny"
and you have no CHOICE.
This is as crazy as it gets.. theologically.
This horrible theology teaches that some people are born to go to hell. They have No choice to be saved. No way to be saved. No option to be saved. No free-will.. This hellish theology literally teaches that some of you are born to BURN in the Lake of Fire and God chose you to go.
The incredibly deceived who teach this damnable hellish cultish theological poison will tell you that all the evil in the world...... Rape, murder, incest, child porn, the sex industry, the porn industry, all Wars, all of man's inhumanity to man is "ordained by God and is caused to BE, by God".
Their theology and belief functions, as if there is no Devil.

Listen, anyone with an IQ, or a recognition that the Same Beautiful and Loving God who came here to die as... "For God so loved the WORLD< that HE GAVE".. understands that God as Christ on a Cross dying for the "sin of the world", is not a God who later.... saves some and burns others.

The reality is... all this "pre-destined elect" stuff resists Spiritual LOGIC< when we understand that "GOD IS LOVE"....and its certainly in direct opposition to the reality of Free Will... as well as denying a plethora of NT Verses that all say..>"as MANY as will come"..." ALL that call on ME shall be saved"...

See, this is the thing about deception....its very powerful. And Satan blinds the mind so that reason, logic, discernment, common sense, are GONE, and all that is left is God denying illogical carnal nonsense that deceived people will claim is "truth".
And this is true of all theological heresies and the people that own them and rant them.

The ELECT,....
These are those who are Pre-destined, or pre-determined to end up ONLY as conformed into "the image of Christ".
You are "elected" by FAITH, you are the elect: by FAITH.
Faith elects the elect.

Being conformed into the Image of Christ is what is pre-determined, (pre-destined) as the final outcome for all who are born again. (Elect).
No one is "chosen by God to burn", and "others are chosen by God to go to Heaven".
WE, the born again, are ELECTED to become, "the image of Christ, by our FAITH that causes God to give us the New Birth.
Faith Elects.
God Saves.

The Foreknowledge of God, knows, regarding each of us who are born again, .....long before we were, that our end result is to become just like Jesus. (conformed into the image of Christ). This is the final result of Faith. This is the destiny of the Elect.
God also knows before you are born, if you are not going to ever Trust in Christ... But He is not choosing this for anyone....>He only knows what each of us will do with Christ.
God's KNOWING is not God CHOOSING......its just God KNOWING before it happens. = "foreknowledge"....or knowledge be-FORE it happens...."Fore-Knowledge".

WE are a SON of GOD , already.. but the final "pre-destined" revealing will be when we are in heaven, and have the new body and are finally and totally conformed into the image of Christ. This is the "pre destined" outcome that is the end result of our Faith.
This is pre-determined (pre-destined) to occur to everyone who is born again.
That is your pre-destination.
You are Elected by your FAITH to have a final determined outcome....>"conformed into the Image of Christ". = elect.
I believe that the scriptures do teach that God predestined some to heaven and some to hell They are called the vessels of Mercy and the Vessels of Wrath in Rom 9!
 
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atpollard

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I hear you.

How can a hyper calvinist face God with a smile when all their life they accused God of doing the Devil's work of "ordaining evil" in the world.
Honestly, these people have a extreme comeuppance coming to them..
These hyper religious deceivers seem to think that there is no Devil, as they give God all the credit due Satan, for Satan's deeds.
The infamous THEIR sins and misunderstandings are BIG, but MY sins and misunderstandings are SMALL, so God will forgive my small sins (like passing judgement on those that Christ for) but will surely punish their great sins (like overestimating the Sovereignty of God). Wasn’t there some verse of scripture about a mote and a log in people’s eyes?
 

ChristisGod

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Here is a simplified understanding.

God does not pre-destine us to be SAVED, while others are pre-destined to be Damned.
Bottomline.

Let me bring this "pre-destined elect" Theology home to you reader.......
Do you have a mother, do you have a child, children? What if God pre-determined that you get to go to Heaven, while He pre-destined your mother and your children to burn in the lake of fire, and there is nothing they can do about it. They CAN'T BE SAVED because GOD WON'T LET THEM.
So, do you see the "crazy" in this Hyper-Calvinism Theology?
Welcome to "pre-destined elect", "elect" "elect" "elect" "elect" "elect" heresy.
I think this one is the worst of them all, regarding totally rejecting the New Testament.
Imagine a "gospel" that accuses God of ordaining all the "evil" in the world.
Imagine a "gospel" that teaches as its core theological principle that God chooses some for Heaven and chooses to burn others, and you are BORN to this "pre-destiny"
and you have no CHOICE.
This is as crazy as it gets.. theologically.
This horrible theology teaches that some people are born to go to hell. They have No choice to be saved. No way to be saved. No option to be saved. No free-will.. This hellish theology literally teaches that some of you are born to BURN in the Lake of Fire and God chose you to go.
The incredibly deceived who teach this damnable hellish cultish theological poison will tell you that all the evil in the world...... Rape, murder, incest, child porn, the sex industry, the porn industry, all Wars, all of man's inhumanity to man is "ordained by God and is caused to BE, by God".
Their theology and belief functions, as if there is no Devil.

Listen, anyone with an IQ, or a recognition that the Same Beautiful and Loving God who came here to die as... "For God so loved the WORLD< that HE GAVE".. understands that God as Christ on a Cross dying for the "sin of the world", is not a God who later.... saves some and burns others.

The reality is... all this "pre-destined elect" stuff resists Spiritual LOGIC< when we understand that "GOD IS LOVE"....and its certainly in direct opposition to the reality of Free Will... as well as denying a plethora of NT Verses that all say..>"as MANY as will come"..." ALL that call on ME shall be saved"...

See, this is the thing about deception....its very powerful. And Satan blinds the mind so that reason, logic, discernment, common sense, are GONE, and all that is left is God denying illogical carnal nonsense that deceived people will claim is "truth".
And this is true of all theological heresies and the people that own them and rant them.

The ELECT,....
These are those who are Pre-destined, or pre-determined to end up ONLY as conformed into "the image of Christ".
You are "elected" by FAITH, you are the elect: by FAITH.
Faith elects the elect.

Being conformed into the Image of Christ is what is pre-determined, (pre-destined) as the final outcome for all who are born again. (Elect).
No one is "chosen by God to burn", and "others are chosen by God to go to Heaven".
WE, the born again, are ELECTED to become, "the image of Christ, by our FAITH that causes God to give us the New Birth.
Faith Elects.
God Saves.

The Foreknowledge of God, knows, regarding each of us who are born again, .....long before we were, that our end result is to become just like Jesus. (conformed into the image of Christ). This is the final result of Faith. This is the destiny of the Elect.
God also knows before you are born, if you are not going to ever Trust in Christ... But He is not choosing this for anyone....>He only knows what each of us will do with Christ.
God's KNOWING is not God CHOOSING......its just God KNOWING before it happens. = "foreknowledge"....or knowledge be-FORE it happens...."Fore-Knowledge".

WE are a SON of GOD , already.. but the final "pre-destined" revealing will be when we are in heaven, and have the new body and are finally and totally conformed into the image of Christ. This is the "pre destined" outcome that is the end result of our Faith.
This is pre-determined (pre-destined) to occur to everyone who is born again.
That is your pre-destination.
You are Elected by your FAITH to have a final determined outcome....>"conformed into the Image of Christ". = elect.
This is typical an of you with an OP void of scripture and nothing but personal opinions, human philosophy and reasoning.

Get back to me when you can support your "personal" beliefs with the BIBLE.

hope this helps !!!
 

ChristisGod

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I can't learn it for you, Randy.
My Job is to offer it.

So, my Thread is clear.
There are those who teach that God chooses some to go to heaven and chooses others to burn in the lake of fire.
This theology is of the Devil.
If this simple teaching i posted seems difficult for you to grasp, then, i would not be surprised.
Man has no choice in the matter since Salvation is of the Lord,not man. Psalm 3:8 John 1:13

And mans condition below makes that perfectly clear since man hates God and loves sin, cannot understand anything spiritual(salvation is spiritual- born again of the Spirit) is a slave to sin, sin is their master and they are dead in their sins.

1)man has a heart that is deceitful (Jeremiah 17:9)
2)man is full of evil (Mark 7:21-23)
3)man loves darkness (John 3:19),
4)man does not seek for God (Romans 3:10-12),
5)man is ungodly (Romans 5:6),
6)man is a sinner (Romans 5:12)
7)man is dead in his sins (Ephesians 2:1),
8)man by nature a child of wrath (Ephesians 2:3),
9)man cannot understand spiritual things (1 Corinthians 2:14),
10)man is a slave of sin (Romans 6:16-20)
11)man is sinful in the womb (Psalms 51:5)
12)man is conceived in sin(Psalms 51:5)
13)man cannot do good(Romans 3:10)
14) man hates God (Romans 8:7)
15)man loves sin (1 John 3:19)
16)man heart is corrupt and his thoughts are and evil continually (Genesis 6:5)

hope this helps !!!
 

ChristisGod

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Here is a simplified understanding.

God does not pre-destine us to be SAVED, while others are pre-destined to be Damned.
Bottomline.

Let me bring this "pre-destined elect" Theology home to you reader.......
Scripture below which contradicts your premise.

Matthew 11:27
“All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son, except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father, except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.” (Matthew 11:27).


John 1:13
13
children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

John 6:37-39
All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.”

John 6:64-65
“But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me, unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

John 15:16
You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you

Acts 13:48
And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed (Acts 13:48).

Romans 8:29-30
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Romans 9:11-17
Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad — in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls — she was told, "The older will serve the younger." 13 Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,
"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.

Ephesians 1:5
In love 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—

Ephesians 1:11
In him we were also chosen, having been predestined
according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,

Jude 1:4
"For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ." -

1 Peter 2:8
"and 'A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.' They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do." -

Romans 11:5-7
"So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace. What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened" -

hope this helps !!!
 
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Behold

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This is typical an of you with an OP void of scripture and nothing but personal opinions, human philosophy and reasoning.

Get back to me when you can support your "personal" beliefs with the BIBLE.

hope this helps !!!

Thank you for your opinion.

Here is the reality of the hyper-calvinist. = He or She has been deceived.
Its just a matter of what extent and to what depth.
ARe they simply a "Free will does not exist", newbie regarding Hyper Calvinism?
or, are they completely lost in it, and will teach that God is in charge of Evil, and causes all the Evil in the world, and that some are born to burn in the lake of fire, and have no option to believe on Jesus.

So, if you are that one, you have some real issues, and the only way you can get out of that cess-pool theology, is to actually leave it behind.
To do this, you'd have to play the man, grow a backbone, and be willing to deal with what they will say about you.
But here is the good news......God would be well pleased.

The choice is yours.
 
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Behold

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Man has no choice in the matter since Salvation is of the Lord,not man. Psalm 3:8 John 1:13

Why would you call Jesus a Liar?
See, when Jesus says that all that will come to him by Faith, will receive eternal life........He is telling the Truth.
I hope you are able to comprehend that Paul's Gospel, came from Jesus.

So, when a Hyper Calvinist like you contradicts Jesus's words, you are actually blaspheming the "Word" of God, which puts you in the position of being an "enemy of the Cross".

If i were you, i'd wake up, and turn from that position.
Really.
 

justbyfaith

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and that some are born to burn in the lake of fire, and have no option to believe on Jesus.
Those who are born to burn in the lake of fire (Jude 1:3-4) will be given the opportunity to receive Jesus but God knows from eternity past (and eternity future; and everything in between) what choice they will make.

Iow, predestination (whether to heaven or hell) is according to foreknowledge (Romans 8:29, 1 Peter 1:2).
 
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ChristisGod

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Thank you for your opinion.

Here is the reality of the hyper-calvinist. = He or She has been deceived.
Its just a matter of what extent and to what depth.
ARe they simply a "Free will does not exist", newbie regarding Hyper Calvanism?
or, are they completely lost in it, and will teach that God is in charge of Evil, and causes all the Evil in the world, and that some are born to burn in the lake of fire, and have no option to believe on Jesus.

So, if you are that one, you have some real issues, and the only way you can get out of that cess-pool theology, is to actually leave it behind.
To do this, you'd have to play the man, grow a backbone, and be willing to deal with what they will say about you.
But here is the good news......God would be well pleased.

The choice is yours.
I do not seek the approval of man.

But to those who think the dead are alive well that is just the opposite of what Gods word declares regarding mankind's fallen state. The bible says man is dead in sin, a slave of sin, sin is their master, they cannot know spiritual things, they hate God, love sin and cannot do good, are unrighteous and are filthy rags.

But hey believe what you want its your CHOICE :)

hope this helps !!!
 

Behold

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I do not seek the approval of man.

But to those who think the dead are alive well that is just the opposite of what Gods word declares regarding mankind's fallen state. The bible says man is dead in sin, a slave of sin, sin is their master, they cannot know spiritual things, they hate God, love sin and cannot do good, are unrighteous and are filthy rags.

But hey believe what you want its your CHOICE :)

hope this helps !!!

Let me give you something to think about that will help, and that is my hope.
Its this.
Do not be found inside a cult mentality denonimatin, demonic, that gives God Credit for the Devil's deeds.

I hope you can hear me., as if you are there, you are living in theology that is God accusing blasphemy.
See, to state that God causes the Evil in the world, is to credit God with the Devil's work.
That is NO DIFFERENT, then saying to Jesus...>"you do those miracles by the power of the devil
You dont want to be that "hypercalvinist" obsessed person.

hope this helps...
 

ChristisGod

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Let me give you something to think about that will help, and that is my hope.
Its this.
Do not be found inside a cult mentality denonimatin, demonic, that gives God Credit for the Devil's deeds.

I hope you can hear me., as if you are there, you are living in theology that is God accusing blasphemy.
See, to state that God causes the Evil in the world, is to credit God with the Devil's work.
That is NO DIFFERENT, then saying to Jesus...>"you do those miracles by the power of the devil
You dont want to be that "hypercalvinist" obsessed person.

hope this helps...
Genesis 50:20
As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.

Acts 2
Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Romans 9
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

hope this helps !!!
 
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brightfame52

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Why would you call Jesus a Liar?
See, when Jesus says that all that will come to him by Faith, will receive eternal life........He is telling the Truth.
I hope you are able to comprehend that Paul's Gospel, came from Jesus.

So, when a Hyper Calvinist like you contradicts Jesus's words, you are actually blaspheming the "Word" of God, which puts you in the position of being an "enemy of the Cross".

If i were you, i'd wake up, and turn from that position.
Really.
You have to have been born again to have faith. Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5 22
 
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brightfame52

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Oct 16, 2020
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Those who are born to burn in the lake of fire (Jude 1:3-4) will be given the opportunity to receive Jesus but God knows from eternity past (and eternity future; and everything in between) what choice they will make.

Iow, predestination (whether to heaven or hell) is according to foreknowledge (Romans 8:29, 1 Peter 1:2).
False statement. There's no such thing as being given a opportunity to receive Christ. That is man made doctrine!
 
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