Who wants to Judge a Man of God who lives i Health and Prosperity??

GISMYS_7 said:

God does not give His family evil gifts!!
Deuteronomy 8:17 And thou say in thine heart, My power and the might of mine hand hath gotten me this wealth.

Deuteronomy 8:18 But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

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To king David, God said and did . . .

2 Samuel 12:11 NLT - "This is what the LORD says: Because of what you have done, I will cause your own household to rebel against you. I will give your wives to another man before your very eyes, and he will go to bed with them in public view."

That doesn't sound like a gift to me. Ouch / Brutal.

Isaiah 45:7 KJV - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things]."

Just reporting what I see in the Bible.

2nd Timothy Group said:

To king David, God said and did . . .

2 Samuel 12:11 NLT - "This is what the LORD says: Because of what you have done, I will cause your own household to rebel against you. I will give your wives to another man before your very eyes, and he will go to bed with them in public view."

That doesn't sound like a gift to me. Ouch / Brutal.

Isaiah 45:7 KJV - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things]."

Just reporting what I see in the Bible.

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Indeed there are repercussions and consequences for our sins.

And the wealthiest man that ever lived said his wealth was vanity.

2nd Timothy Group said:

Oh man, not me. I've lived that way much of my life, wanting everyone to see me as perfect, and that led to incredible misery.

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The way I see it, my perfection in Christ (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 John 3:9) is a work of God's grace within me.

It is a righteousness apart from the law that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21), that it is righteousness indeed...

In that, I have received the Spirit by faith (Galatians 3:14)...

And also, because I have the Spirit, I bear the fruit of the Spirit. Against such there is no law (Galatians 5:22-23).

This means that the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in me if I walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4).

Yet it is not a righteousness that comes by the law; but it is the righteousness which is of God by faith (Philippians 3:9). It fulfills the law.

Again, I do not obtain this righteousness by attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts (Galatians 2:16-21). I obtain it through faith in Jesus Christ who sheds His love abroad in my heart (Romans 5:5).

This love is not impractical (1 John 3:17-18) and is the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within me (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4).

justbyfaith said:

The way I see it, my perfection in Christ (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 John 3:9) is a work of God's grace within me.

It is a righteousness apart from the law that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21), that it is righteousness indeed...

In that, I have received the Spirit by faith (Galatians 3:14)...

And also, because I have the Spirit, I bear the fruit of the Spirit. Against such there is no law (Galatians 5:22-23).

This means that the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in me if I walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4).

Yet it is not a righteousness that comes by the law; but it is the righteousness which is of God by faith (Philippians 3:9). It fulfills the law.

Again, I do not obtain this righteousness by attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts (Galatians 2:16-21). I obtain it through faith in Jesus Christ who sheds His love abroad in my heart (Romans 5:5).

This love is not impractical (1 John 3:17-18) and is the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within me (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4).

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Absolutely. This should help many people.

Ronald Nolette said:

Don't get me wrong! I find what this guy preaches repugnant and highly offensive. this kind of message has done great harm to the church in the world! They are wolves in sheeps clothing (many of them) BUT and I must add a BUT here: If they have trusted in teh death and physical resurrection of jesus for their sin debt before the Father, they are saved no matter how much heretical garbage has deceived them from that point. they are stunted, crippled believers but would be believers nonetheless. I won't fellowship with them, but I will not attempt to judge their eternal destiny either. That belongs to the Lord alone. If they say that wealth must accompany salvation or some silliness like that, then we have a leg to question their salvation as the Bible tells us to!

Yes this is a perverted teaching, but the church has had to endure legions of false teachings over the ages by those sheep who were deceived by angel of light false teachers. I stand vehemntly against what this prosperity gospel says, but cannot biblically condemn the indivivual, that is God to do!

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Understood, and very well said, ...but, Ron, I didn't go as far as to condemn him, did I? I merely attempted to expose his heretical and misguided views for what they were, and basically told him to take his garbage elsewhere, ...or rather, get rid of it altogether? I didn't go past that did I?

I had to assert that he was causing more damage than good in espousing such shallow, and antithetical to edification and living by the Spirit, principles, that he was. And, in the past, others have defended him claiming that he does preach salvation through Christ, for example. So, I thought that I did differentiate between calling himself an apostate or heretic, as opposed to his views, ...which the latter should be vehemently denounced and desisted.

DNB said:

Understood, and very well said, ...but, Ron, I didn't go as far as to condemn him, did I? I merely attempted to expose his heretical and misguided views for what they were, and basically told him to take his garbage elsewhere, ...or rather, get rid of it altogether? I didn't go past that did I?

I had to assert that he was causing more damage than good in espousing such shallow, and antithetical to edification and living by the Spirit, principles, that he was. And, in the past, others have defended him claiming that he does preach salvation through Christ, for example. So, I thought that I did differentiate between calling himself an apostate or heretic, as opposed to his views, ...which the latter should be vehemently denounced and desisted.

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Every heresy does harm. but remember we are all heretics to some measure because we are all imperfect and we tend to see teh eroors in others easier than the ones in ourselves.

I agree this prosperity gospel is blasphemous! We must fight against it with all we have like all other garbage that others seek to add to SCripture! My advice, if He professes to be a believer- attack the doctrines while doing all you can to not attack the person. I say that from failed experience as well as successful experience. This can be hard because we get invovled in dialogue and forget that it is the trash we sought to expose and hopefully recover a fellow believer from error.

Ronald Nolette said:

Every heresy does harm. but remember we are all heretics to some measure because we are all imperfect and we tend to see teh eroors in others easier than the ones in ourselves.

I agree this prosperity gospel is blasphemous! We must fight against it with all we have like all other garbage that others seek to add to SCripture! My advice, if He professes to be a believer- attack the doctrines while doing all you can to not attack the person. I say that from failed experience as well as successful experience. This can be hard because we get invovled in dialogue and forget that it is the trash we sought to expose and hopefully recover a fellow believer from error.

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I see, your point is that I went as far as to call him shallow and misguided, and that this is where I crossed the line from condemning the act, as opposed to the person.

Ok, then I go back to my original defense, he deserves it because he's old enough to know better. If Paul called men lazy beasts, avaricious and whoremongers, and Jesus called Jewish leaders white-wash tombs and devil's children, then there is a time and place for such criticism.
You are generalizing by saying that there never is an appropriate time for the rhetoric that I used against GIMYS, I think that there is.

DNB said:

I see, your point is that I went as far as to call him shallow and misguided, and that this is where I crossed the line from condemning the act, as opposed to the person.

Ok, then I go back to my original defense, he deserves it because he's old enough to know better. If Paul called men lazy beasts, avaricious and whoremongers, and Jesus called Jewish leaders white-wash tombs and devil's children, then there is a time and place for such criticism.
You are generalizing by saying that there never is an appropriate time for the rhetoric that I used against GIMYS, I think that there is.

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Just remember if God gave us what we deserve.......? It doesn't matter what we think a person may or may not deserve, How does the word say we should respond! there is a time or righteous indignation and being all fire and brimstone- but that should come after we with patience and humility try to teach one the truth so they may recover themselves from the snare of the devil. Remember we are not wrestling against flesh and blood.

This person is being held captive by false doctrine and lies- even if they fully believe them and promote them. There is an old saying< I don't know if you know it. There but for the grace of God go I". If we know the truth, it is to teh glory of God and not because we are smarter, study more or anything! I should know I have a very high IQ, study daily been through Bible College and licensed as a counselor for going through 2 years of an intensive training course by AACC. I have been told I only need to take one class and submit $10K and a 50,000 word doctoral thesis to get a THD! But all that is useless if I am not doing all in obedience to Him who is the source of our wisdom!

Guard your heart my brother! This man may be spewing real spiritual vomit, but don't let it cause unrighteous anger in your heart which will fester to bitterness. Speak the truth to him, if they don't listen, shake the dust off your feet when it is time, and leave them to the Lord! Remember we must always seek to reconcile one to Jesus, not just trash them for believing stupid stuff!

Ronald Nolette said:

Just remember if God gave us what we deserve.......? It doesn't matter what we think a person may or may not deserve, How does the word say we should respond! there is a time or righteous indignation and being all fire and brimstone- but that should come after we with patience and humility try to teach one the truth so they may recover themselves from the snare of the devil. Remember we are not wrestling against flesh and blood.

This person is being held captive by false doctrine and lies- even if they fully believe them and promote them. There is an old saying< I don't know if you know it. There but for the grace of God go I". If we know the truth, it is to teh glory of God and not because we are smarter, study more or anything! I should know I have a very high IQ, study daily been through Bible College and licensed as a counselor for going through 2 years of an intensive training course by AACC. I have been told I only need to take one class and submit $10K and a 50,000 word doctoral thesis to get a THD! But all that is useless if I am not doing all in obedience to Him who is the source of our wisdom!

Guard your heart my brother! This man may be spewing real spiritual vomit, but don't let it cause unrighteous anger in your heart which will fester to bitterness. Speak the truth to him, if they don't listen, shake the dust off your feet when it is time, and leave them to the Lord! Remember we must always seek to reconcile one to Jesus, not just trash them for believing stupid stuff!

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Ron, I don't mean to be continuously defiant or contentious here, but there are reasons to believe that this guys deserves admonishing.
He has deliberately chosen to omit all the passages that denounce wealth, avarice, the world system, and coveting temporal things. He has not acknowledged a single person's contention on the this thread so far, and there has been many, some as vehement as mine.

He's not sincere, Ron, the evidence is right before us. Maybe you're assuming that I always come off heavy handed to all doctrine or precepts that I disagree with, but not at all. For, I am convinced that kind and gentle words will have absolutely no impact on this guy, in order to make him appreciate the folly and subversive ways of his views. So that, if my perception is correct about his lack of desire to do what's right, but just wants to justify his perverted ways, then all that I can say Ron, is that your remedy will be entirely impotent with him. In other words, my denunciation is largely for others to read, also.

@DNB,

If @GISMYS_7 has placed his trust in Christ and what He did for him on the Cross, then having wealth in his life is not going to take away his salvation...and justifying the fact that he has wealth in his life is not going to take away his salvation.

Would you exclude people from the kingdom because they are wealthy?

Here is what Jesus said:

Jhn 6:37, All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

justbyfaith said:

@DNB,

If @GISMYS_7 has placed his trust in Christ and what He did for him on the Cross, then having wealth in his life is not going to take away his salvation...and justifying the fact that he has wealth in his life is not going to take away his salvation.

Would you exclude people from the kingdom because they are wealthy?

Here is what Jesus said:

Jhn 6:37, All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

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I'm not rebuking his wealth, JBF, I'm rebuking his sentiments, and his promotion of it.

DNB said:

I'm not rebuking his wealth, JBF, I'm rebuking his sentiments, and his promotion of it.

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I covered that...read my statements again.

There is one benefit to prosperity doctrine that I can see...and that is that those who are wealthy by it can realize that they are not excluded from the kingdom because they are wealthy.

Because certain scriptures do give the impression that wealth excludes a man from the kingdom of heaven.

Wealthy people need to know that the door to inherit salvation is open to them.

'nuff said!

justbyfaith said:

I covered that...read my statements again.

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You read mine again.

DNB said:

You read mine again.

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Never mind, if you don't want to cooperate then just be yourself.

I wish Christians would get along. After all, getting along proves that we're Christians.

justbyfaith said:

Never mind, if you don't want to cooperate then just be yourself.

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No, you be yourself.

DNB said:

No, you be yourself.

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I am myself; always have been, and always will be.