Is Jesus the WORD?

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ReChoired

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Those who believe in the Trinity
Those who continually whine about the false doctrine of the 'Trinity' (RC def), never address the texts that describe the Word as "God", or Jesus as "God", "JEHOVAH", etc. Instead, they continually set up a straw man and knock it down. Waste of time.
 

ReChoired

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Did not. I compared it to John 1:1 like 1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv) says to do as the biblical hermeneutic
Unitarianism, the other error, the same as the 'Trinity', as they are both the same at their root.

The "Word" is not the Father. Neither is the Holy Ghost, the Father, nor the Son.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Joh 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
Joh 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
Joh 1:8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
Joh 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Isa_48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

Gen_19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Gen 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.​

That's Three Persons.

Joh_16:16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

Eph_3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
1Jn 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
1Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.​

That's Two Persons.

Jesus came in the Father's name:

Joh_5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.​

The Holy Ghost comes in Jesus ' name:

Joh_14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Three Persons again. Two speaking on behalf of another.
 

ReChoired

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There is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4)
Indeed. One Holy Ghost/Spirit, let's read the context and not take a verse out of its context:

Joh_7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)​

The Holy Ghost is distinct from the Father and the Son:

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
1Co 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Co 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.​

1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.​

The Holy Spirit is distinct from "the body".

Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.​

That's Three Persons again.

and the Father is that Spirit (John 4:23-24).
No. You took two texts out of their context, and jumbled them together.

Notice, just as Jesus is not "the Father", but He is the "gift" of the Father:

Joh 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.​

The text does not say that "the Father is "the" "Spirit". The text says that the Father is "a" Spirit, which He is:

Heb_12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?​

The Holy Ghost is also that Spirit (John 7:39).
No. The Holy Ghost is "The Spirit "of" (possession) "the LORD"".

Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)​

That's two Persons, not one. Jesus was already given to them by the Father, see John 3:16. The Holy Ghost/Spirit was not yet given, until Pentecost (Psalms 133:1-3; Acts 2:1-4,33; Revelation 5:6; &c).

Again:

Isa_48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

1Co_6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.​

That's Three Persons.

Just as Gabriel is "a" spirit that belongs to God, a 'spirit of the Lord', the Holy Ghost, is the Third Person, whom the Father and the Son send, even as the Father and the Spirit sent the Son.

Joh_14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Joh_15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Joh_16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.​
 

ReChoired

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Of course the Holy Ghost proceeds from the Father (John 15:26) and is distinct from the Father in that He has lived a human life (see Luke 23:46).
No. See the previous passages, in that "the Word" was "made flesh", not the Holy Spirit, which was He which was over Mary, placing the "Seed":

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Luk 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
Luk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Luk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.​

The nature of the Holy Ghost/Spirit in the Bible is a mystery, never explained. We do know that He is a Person, not the Person of the Father, neither the Person of the Son, for He (the Holy Ghost) has His own "will", as already provided.

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
1Co 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Co 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.​

But they are in fact the same Spirit; for the Spirit that dwelt in Jesus Christ was indeed the Father (John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11).
That is again simply taking those verses out of the context in which they are written to Justify your own incorrect apriori.

Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Joh 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
Joh 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.​

That's Three Persons. Notice the words "also", "another", etc which the Unitarian must ignore at all costs to keep their error intact.

You kind of have to read the verses in question rather than reading it without the verses in order to get the full message.
Oh, I read them in context, as seen above in demonstration. All I saw from you, was ripping them from their context in an erroneous aprioric of text proofing by mere citation of Book, Chapter, Verse with your own personal commentary explaining your already held belief.
 
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BARNEY BRIGHT

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Those who continually whine about the false doctrine of the 'Trinity' (RC def), never address the texts that describe the Word as "God", or Jesus as "God", "JEHOVAH", etc. Instead, they continually set up a straw man and knock it down. Waste of time.

What's important to me for those who say Jesus is God is: I believe that the best way to learn the truth about Jesus is to examine what he said about himself.

Jesus said at John 6:38- “I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me.” Now, that statement is a bit puzzling to me if Jesus were God. Jesus said he did not come down from heaven to do his own will. He said that he came to do the will of the One who sent him. If Jesus is God, who sent him down from heaven? And why did Jesus yield to the will of that person?

He made a similar statement in the next chapter of John:
At John 7:16 Jesus said: "What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me." So did Jesus teach his own ideas? No, he said that his teachings belong to the One who sent him. I have to wonder: ‘Who sent Jesus? And who gave him the truths he taught?’ Wouldn’t that One be greater than Jesus? After all, the sender is superior to the one who is sent.

Consider, too, Jesus’ words at John 14:28: “You heard that I said to you, I am going away and I am coming back to you. If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am.” Based on that verse, how would you say Jesus viewed himself in relation to the Father? Jesus viewed God as his superior. Another example, notice what Jesus told his disciples as recorded at Matthew 28:18. That verse says: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.” So did Jesus say that he always had all authority? God has always had all authority. So why did Jesus say all authority in heaven and on Earth has been given to him when the True God has always had all authority in heaven and on Earth? Since people say Jesus is God but the scriptures show that Jesus was given more authority who gave him more authority? God, but people say Jesus is God.

Here’s something else to consider: We’ve read that Jesus spoke of God as his heavenly Father. And when Jesus was baptized, a voice from heaven referred to Jesus as His Son. In fact, Jesus specifically called himself God’s Son. Now, if you wanted to teach me that two people are equal, what sort of family relationship might you use to illustrate the point? Two brothers? Perhaps identical twins? But Jesus referred to God as the Father and to himself as the Son. So, what message do you suppose Jesus is conveying? It seems to me Jesus is describing one individual as being older and as having more authority than the other.

Think about this: If a person came up with such a fitting illustration of equality, that of brothers or twins. If Jesus really were God, don’t you think that Jesus, as the Great Teacher, would have thought of the same comparison—or an even clearer example of equality if that was what Jesus was teaching? But, instead, he used the terms “Father” and “Son” to describe his relationship with God, not one of equality.


If Jesus truly is God, wouldn’t you expect that Jesus’ disciples would have plainly said so?

Yet, nowhere in the Scriptures do we read of their teaching that. On the contrary, notice what one of Jesus’ early followers, the apostle Paul, wrote. At Philippians 2:9, he describes what God did after Jesus’ death and resurrection: “God exalted him [Jesus] to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name.” According to this verse, what did God do for Jesus? Doesn't the scriptures say God exalted him to a superior position?

But if Jesus were equal to God before he died and God later exalted him to a higher position, wouldn’t that put Jesus above God? How could anyone be superior to God?
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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The New World Translation was created in the early 20th, late 19th century...by teachers who wanted to deny the Trinity. That was their purpose for creating it. Salvation did not come to the church at that time in history; it came in the first century A.D. when Jesus died upon the Cross.

You have been told that if you continue to deny the Deity of Christ, you will die in your sins. I don't know what else I can do for you other than that. If you won't heed the warning then maybe the Lord wants me to dust off my feet and bring the gospel to others.

As a matter of fact, I believe that you have been given a first and second warning. But since these things have not been official as concerning the present moments, I give you my first admonition now. If you do not repent of your denial of the truth of this doctrine, you will be rejected as a heretic. Don't worry....the penalty for such things is not as severe today as it was in the old days...however, just know that you will have a mark on your name hereafter if you continue to reject the faithful doctrine of Christ's Deity. I do this in obedience to Titus 3:10-11.

I've told you I will continue to believe what Jesus says about himself in scripture. Scriptures which you deny because you will either interpret them to be completely opposite of what God's Holy Spirit had men write down or you will ignore them or twist them, take them out of context.
By not believing what Jesus himself said about himself, you call him a liar and his Father a liar whose Holy Spirit inspired men to write down what Jesus said about himself. I will always believe Jesus over you and anyone like you.
 

DNB

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In verse 14 it says that "The Word became flesh..."
Yes...Jesus is God.
And his name "Emmanuel" which means "God with us" is also another big clue.
No, the Word cannot both be God, and be with God, that type of logic is called nonsense. The literary convention that John is using here is called antanaclasis. That should've been recognizable right away, as any other option just causes derangement in anyone who accepts it.

And, Immanuel is use the of theophory, which is employed throughout the Bible. Countless characters had theophoric names. And, not to mention, after God's abandonment of His people since 722BC, and the constant lament '...God is not with us as before..' or '...where is the fulfillment of the Davidic promise...', you cannot find a more competent and rationale correlate? That is, with these two undeniable, and over-arching, principles of the Old Covenant, do you really believe that Immanuel means that the transcendent, immutable and omnipresent God, came down to earth to get slaughtered by His own creation?

Daniel: "God is my judge" or "justice from God"
Elijah: "my God is YHWH"
Elisha: "my God is salvation"
Elizabeth: "my God is an oath" or "my God is abundance"
Immanuel: "God is with us"
Ezekiel: "God will strengthen"
Gabriel: "God is my strength"
Ishmael: "God listens"
Israel: "who struggles with God"
Michael: "Who is like God?"
Nathaniel: "God-given" or "gift of God"
Raphael: "God heals/God is great"
Samuel: "God heard"
Uriel: "God is my light"
 

ReChoired

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No, the Word cannot both be God, and be with God, that type of logic is called nonsense.
It's because you do not know how the word "theos" ("God") is used. It is not referring to Person, but to Nature. And two Persons can be of the same Nature (Deity) just fine, even as the two of us can be both man-kind but not the same person. Therefore, "God" (the Word, John 1:1c) can be "with" "God" (The Ancient of Days, the Father; John 1:1b), even as "man" can be with "man".
 

ReChoired

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...Michael: "Who is like God?" ...
A clear Reference to the Son, see:

AWHN%20-%20Bible%20-%20Michael%20Wikipedia.jpg


Michael The Archangel [00A] – The Table Of Contents (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [00B] – The Introduction (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [01] – Locating The Main Texts (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [02] – The Basic Definitions (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [03] – The Word Angel As Defined And Used (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [04] – Archangels In The KJB And In The SoP-ToJ (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [05] – Michael The Great Prince Of Daniel (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [06] – The Two Princes (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [07] – Revelation 12, An Unbreakable Chiastic Structure (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [08] – The Great Controversy; Michael Vs Dragon (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [09] – The Comparisons Of The Angel Of The LORD Throughout The KJB (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [10] – Questions And Answers About Michael Archangel Jesus Texts (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [11] – Messengers Of The LORD & The Reformation & Etc (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [12] – The Plan Of Redemption Who Is Like Unto God Daniel 11:40-45, 12:1-3 (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [X1] – Appendix 1 – The Epistles Of Peter & Jude Compared (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [X2] – Appendix 2 – The Short Historical List Of Those Who Taught Jesus Is Michael (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [X3] – Appendix 3 – The Many Names And Titles Of The Son Of The Father – Jesus (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [X4] – Appendix 4 – The Son Of The Father, Jesus, Who Is JEHOVAH Emmanuel, The Eternal And Great I AM, God Manifest In The Flesh (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [X5] – Appendix 5 – The Cross Throughout The Bible And In The Sanctuary (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [X6] – Appendix 6 – Daniel & The Revelation Compared, 7 Branch Candlestick (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [X7] – Appendix 7 – Daniel 11.1 20 KJB, 3 Angels Messages, A Work In Progress (PDF)
 

ReChoired

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...Immanuel: "God is with us" ...
You erred in translation. Immanuel is not "God is with us", but "God with us".

Mat_1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.​

Matthew, inspired of the Third Person, the Holy Ghost, shows clearly that Jesus is JEHOVAH the Son.

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.​

Jesus, literally translated to "JEHOVAH Saves", which is found in the OT. JEHOVAH the Son came down personally, even as He had with Abraham and with Moses, but this time something much greater was to occur. The Son was to take on our fallen flesh nature.

Gen 18:1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

Gen 18:22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.

Gen 18:33 And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.

Exo 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.​

What do you make of these texts and others which speak of Jesus JEHOVAH [H3444 H3068]?

Genesis 49:18 HOT - לישׁועתך קויתי יהוה׃
Genesis 49:18 HOT Translit. - liyshûät'khä qiûiytiy y'hwäh

Exodus 14:13 HOT - ויאמר משׁה אל־העם אל־תיראו התיצבו וראו את־ישׁועת יהוה אשׁר־יעשׂה לכם היום כי אשׁר ראיתם את־מצרים היום לא תספו לראתם עוד עד־עולם׃
Exodus 14:13 HOT Translit. - waYomer mosheh el-hääm al-Tiyräû hit'yatz'vû ûr'û et-y'shûat y'hwäh ásher-yaáseh läkhem haYôm Kiy ásher r'iytem et-mitz'rayim haYôm lo tošiyfû lir'otäm ôd ad-ôläm​

The "et" or "את" is the Alpeh Tau, the Alpha Omega of Hebrew, the First and Last letter, the Author and Finisher.


2 Chronicles 20:17 HOT - לא לכם להלחם בזאת התיצבו עמדו וראו את־ישׁועת יהוה עמכם יהודה וירושׁלם אל־תיראו ואל־תחתו מחר צאו לפניהם ויהוה עמכם׃
2 Chronicles 20:17 HOT Translit. - lo läkhem l'hiLächëm Bäzot hit'yaTZ'vû im'dû ûr'û et-y'shûat y'hwäh iMäkhem y'hûdäh wiyrûshälaim al-Tiyr'û w'al-TëchaTû mächär tz'û lif'nëyhem wayhwäh iMäkhem

Jonah 2:9 (2:10) HOT - ואני בקול תודה אזבחה־לך אשׁר נדרתי אשׁלמה ישׁועתה ליהוה׃
Jonah 2:9 HOT Translit. - waániy B'qôl Tôdäh ez'B'chäh-Läkh' ásher nädar'Tiy áshaLëmäh y'shûätäh layhwäh š

Psalms 119:174 HOT - תאבתי לישׁועתך יהוה ותורתך שׁעשׁעי׃
Psalms 119:174 HOT Translit. - Täav'Tiy liyshûät'khä y'hwäh w'tôrät'khä shaáshuäy​

What then do you think of the following?

Scripture [KJB] from Genesis 1:1 :

Genesis 1:1 reads in Hebrew - בראשׁית ברא אלהים את השׁמים ואת הארץ׃
Genesis 2:4 reads in Hebrew - אלה תולדות השׁמים והארץ בהבראם ביום עשׂות יהוה אלהים ארץ ושׁמים׃​
 

ReChoired

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do you really believe that Immanuel means that the transcendent, immutable and omnipresent God, came down to earth
Yes. That is what scripture teaches.

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.​

You have several misunderstandings, though. God is omnipresent through His omniscience (see Psalms 139). God is not the god of Pantheism/Panentheism. God's Omnipresence does not equate to God actually being in the tree, rock, sinner.
 

ReChoired

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... Daniel: "God is my judge" or "justice from God"
Elijah: "my God is YHWH"
Elisha: "my God is salvation"
Elizabeth: "my God is an oath" or "my God is abundance"
...
Ezekiel: "God will strengthen"
Gabriel: "God is my strength"
Ishmael: "God listens"
Israel: "who struggles with God"
...
Nathaniel: "God-given" or "gift of God"
Raphael: "God heals/God is great"
Samuel: "God heard"
Uriel: "God is my light"
Context dictates who those persons are, and what their nature is. I have already discussed Michael and Immanuel in brief.

The others are merely human, or merely angelic-being (Gabriel). (No such person/being as "Raphael" in scripture (KJB), though such exists in the apocryphal, non-canonical sources).

There is one more exception, and that is "Israel", for though the Hebrew man Jacob (son of Isaac, grandson of Abraham) was later called Israel, he got that name from the real Israel - The Son of God who existed eternally before him:

Jesus is the true Israel (Matthew 2:13-15,19-21; Hosea 11:1; his children are his disciples; Hebrews 2:13; Isaiah 8:16,18; John 13:33), the true "overcomer" (John 16:33; Revelation 3:21), the real "Prince" with God (Isaiah 9:6; Daniel 8:11,25, 9:25, 10:13,21, 11:22, 12:1; Acts 3:15, 5:31; Revelation 1:5), being Lord over His own house, whose house are we (Psalms 98:3; Hebrews 3:6; Jeremiah 31:33), who himself is the "elect" (Isaiah 42:1; Matthew 12:18; 1 Peter 2:6) of the Father, in whom all the promises of God find their realization (2 Corinthians 1:20). The promises made by God were all based upon condition (Exodus 19).

Mat 2:13-15,19-21; Hos 11:1; Jer 31:33; Rom 9:6-8; Heb 2:13; Isa 8:16,18; Jhn 13:33, 16:33, 17:12, 18:9, 21:5; 1 Cor 15:46; 2 Cor 1:20; Gal 6:16; Heb 3:6, 8:8,10; Rev 3:21​

'Israel' after the flesh, as a 'nation', is left desolate (Matthew 23:38; Luke 13:35), to bear no more fruit ever again (Matthew 21:19), cursed, withered away (Mark 11:21), dried up from the roots (Mark 11:20), "twice dead" (Jude 1:12), and the axe already laid at their root (Matthew 3:10; Luke 3:9), cut down and to be thrown into the fire.

The Son of the Father, is the real "Prince" (or Ruler) "with" "God" (His Father), as they both share the Eternal Throne, as the Son sits at the right hand of His Father.
 

ReChoired

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If Jesus truly is God, wouldn’t you expect that Jesus’ disciples would have plainly said so?
Oh, yeah, -- that thing that John wrote:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.​
 
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ChristisGod

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If Jesus truly is God, wouldn’t you expect that Jesus’ disciples would have plainly said so?

Yet, nowhere in the Scriptures do we read of their teaching that.
I'm so glad you asked as:

Thomas calls Him God


John 20:28
Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

And His disciples worshipped Him

Luke 24:52
And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:

Peter calls Him God

2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:

And the exact same construction below as Peter calls Him Lord and Savior.

2 Peter 1:11
and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Paul calls Him God and its the exact same construction in the Greek as 2 Peter 1:1

Titus 2:13
while we wait for the blessed hope--the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

Hebrews 1:8

But of the Son He says,
"YOUR THRONE O GOD IS FOREVER AND EVER

Hebrews 1:10

He also says,
"In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.


And John calls Him God below

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God

1 John 5:20
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

hope this helps !!!
 
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101G

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John 1:1 speaks of two Persons, [1] The Word (Jesus, John 1:14,17) who is "God" (John 1:1c; Genesis 1:7), but the "Word" is not "God" (John 1:1b) the Person of the Father (Genesis 1:6). In effect, "God" (The Word, Person of the Son) was "with" "God" (The Ancient of Days; The Person of the Father).
GINOLJC, to all
First thanks for the reply, second, it's one person diversified.
YOU SAID: "[1] The Word (Jesus, John 1:14,17) who is "God" AND THEN SAID, "but the "Word" is not "God" (John 1:1b)". THAT RIGHT THERE IS CONTRADICTORY IN ITSELF.

But, lets break down what you said.
#1. John 1:1 speaks of two Persons, [1] The Word (Jesus, John 1:14,17) who is "God".
Jesus, the Word, and you gave, John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." and John 1:17 "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."

Jesus is God, but you claim a separate person, correct. well lets see,
Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."
here clearly "ME" is a person, agree. now this,

Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?" (remember God's "OWN: ARM in Isaiah 63:5. well that same ARM is now going to be REVEALED as to "WHO" he is.), listen,

Isaiah 53:2 "For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him." (did you see that ReChoired? God's OWN ARM is he ... himself). BINGO. read that again.

Isaiah 53:3 "He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not."

Isaiah 53:4 "Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted."

now the ARM of God is the Lord Jesus the ordinal LAST, meaning this is God in "diversity". the Lord Jesus is God's own ARM. the SAME ONE PERSON. this is what many a christian do not understand. JESUS is GOD, and his OWN ARM CAME in FLESH.

YOU CAN FORGIT THAT JEHOVAH AND JESUS AS SEPARATE NAME, NO, THERE IS ONLY ONE NAME FOR GOD, AND THAT'S "JESUS", ENGLISH, AND "YESHUA" HEBREW.

these verse expose the false doctrine of any three person Godhead, or any two person Godhead.... and Get this any "ONENESS" or ONE person Godhead, with out "diversity".... :eek: YIKES!.

Now if any christian is seeking truth, thern start here and acknowledge the TRUTH, God is his own ARM in Flesh.

so, John 1:1 is CORRECT from the beginning of the Verse, unto the END of the Verse, in the KJV.

NEXT, your "The Ancient of Days" to be reproved.

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

justbyfaith

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First of all, let me just mention that I do not deny the distinctness between the members of the Godhead...


The text does not say that "the Father is "the" "Spirit". The text says that the Father is "a" Spirit, which He is:

There is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4)

in that "the Word" was "made flesh", not the Holy Spirit,

See Luke 1:35.

Oh, I read them in context, as seen above in demonstration. All I saw from you, was ripping them from their context in an erroneous aprioric of text proofing by mere citation of Book, Chapter, Verse with your own personal commentary explaining your already held belief.

I can feel the hatred just oozing out of your bones here.
 

ChristisGod

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First of all, let me just mention that I do not deny the distinctness between the members of the Godhead...




There is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4)



See Luke 1:35.



I can feel the hatred just oozing out of your bones here.
hmm I don't see any hate as he is just challenging your doctrine. hate would be how your friend cl treats me, that is hatred.
 

justbyfaith

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At Philippians 2:9, he describes what God did after Jesus’ death and resurrection: “God exalted him [Jesus] to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name.”
Is the name of Jesus Christ above the name Jehovah? How is it that the Son has a superior name to the Father, with more glory attached to it, and this is to the glory of the Father? I thought that God was a jealous God.

I do not have the time nor the patience to answer your other contentions here. Suffice it to say that they are answered in posts #1-#6 in my thread on the True Trinity (may post a link shortly; or maybe I will make you work to find it).

Here:

True Trinity.
 

DNB

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It's because you do not know how the word "theos" ("God") is used. It is not referring to Person, but to Nature. And two Persons can be of the same Nature (Deity) just fine, even as the two of us can be both man-kind but not the same person. Therefore, "God" (the Word, John 1:1c) can be "with" "God" (The Ancient of Days, the Father; John 1:1b), even as "man" can be with "man".
Great, you're a polytheist then. That's fine, as long as you identify yourself as such, so people have clarity as to what you are professing.
 

DNB

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A clear Reference to the Son, see:

AWHN%20-%20Bible%20-%20Michael%20Wikipedia.jpg


Michael The Archangel [00A] – The Table Of Contents (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [00B] – The Introduction (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [01] – Locating The Main Texts (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [02] – The Basic Definitions (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [03] – The Word Angel As Defined And Used (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [04] – Archangels In The KJB And In The SoP-ToJ (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [05] – Michael The Great Prince Of Daniel (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [06] – The Two Princes (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [07] – Revelation 12, An Unbreakable Chiastic Structure (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [08] – The Great Controversy; Michael Vs Dragon (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [09] – The Comparisons Of The Angel Of The LORD Throughout The KJB (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [10] – Questions And Answers About Michael Archangel Jesus Texts (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [11] – Messengers Of The LORD & The Reformation & Etc (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [12] – The Plan Of Redemption Who Is Like Unto God Daniel 11:40-45, 12:1-3 (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [X1] – Appendix 1 – The Epistles Of Peter & Jude Compared (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [X2] – Appendix 2 – The Short Historical List Of Those Who Taught Jesus Is Michael (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [X3] – Appendix 3 – The Many Names And Titles Of The Son Of The Father – Jesus (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [X4] – Appendix 4 – The Son Of The Father, Jesus, Who Is JEHOVAH Emmanuel, The Eternal And Great I AM, God Manifest In The Flesh (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [X5] – Appendix 5 – The Cross Throughout The Bible And In The Sanctuary (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [X6] – Appendix 6 – Daniel & The Revelation Compared, 7 Branch Candlestick (PDF)

Michael The Archangel [X7] – Appendix 7 – Daniel 11.1 20 KJB, 3 Angels Messages, A Work In Progress (PDF)
....you are asserting that Michael, the archangel, was Christ?
You know that you are sounding absurd right now, eh?