What wisdom is this?

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VictoryinJesus

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It's a spiritual war.
And the only thing we have is the Word.
And I see a conflict between Jesus and Paul.

I'm going over all the OT and comparing it with the NT.
And while some things in Paul's letters are consistant, some are not.
Particularly the law, and the ordinances of Baptism which Jesus imposed.
When you travel with Paul he is putting in his own ordinances,
how women should dress, or teach,

for instance, Paul says all the ordinances have been nailed to the cross and then implements his own:

1Co 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1Co 11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
1Co 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
1Co 11:6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
1Co 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

And so we have the Priesthood and the "judgement" of celibacy.. that is No where in the OT.

1Co 7:25 Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.
1Co 7:26 I suppose therefore that this is good for the present distress, I say, that it is good for a man so to be.

1Co 7:35 And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction.

But Paul it did become a snare.. A very nasty nasty snare.. and the ones hurt by this little instruction has destroyed
many childrens lives.

It's just the little things..


“It’s just the little things..”
Maybe not so little...but instead at the root of the matter where the bitterness towards Paul comes from. But what if the words have been twisted by ‘the unstable and unlearned unto their own destruction’...like they do will all the scriptures?
2 Peter 3:15-16 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; [16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
 

farouk

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my mistake. You are right.

I’ve been following along further down in the thread with your replies and do not deny you have some good points. Especially about
Genesis 49:27 Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil.

Yet: Hebrews 10:31-34 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. [32] But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; [33] Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used. [34] For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.

Proverbs 16:18-19 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall. [19] Better it is to be of an humble spirit with the lowly, than to divide the spoil with the proud.

Going to insert some thoughts or questions here: Acts 9:1-12 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest, (no denying this is before his conversion, yet again why would satan appear to ask to Saul why he persecuted him and not instead say ...continue what you are doing Saul, continue binding them and imprisonments until they pay every last mite)

2] And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem. [3] And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: [4] And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? [5] And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. (You made a good point about his not knowing Him, but does that make the one who appeared or that light Satan...or the one asking “who are you” the one in question. Interesting Saul fell to the earth.)

[6] And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do. [7] And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man. [8] And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus. [9] And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.
[10] And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord. (Do you think this was the Lord or Satan transforming himself into an angel of light?) if the Lord and not Satan transforming himself into an angel of light...then the Lord sent him to Saul. If Satan transforming himself into an angel of light ...does satan give sight to the blind?
John 10:19-21 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings. [20] And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him? [21] Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?

So then moving on Acts 9:11-18 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth, [12] And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight. [13] Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: [14] And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name. [15] But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: [16] For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. [17] And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Spirit [18] And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
@VictoryinJesus Humility is so important; Philippians 2 refers to it in relation to the Lord Jesus being obedient unto death, even the death of the Cross.
 
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farouk

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“It’s just the little things..”
Maybe not so little...but instead at the root of the matter where the bitterness towards Paul comes from. But what if the words have been twisted by ‘the unstable and unlearned unto their own destruction’...like they do will all the scriptures?
@VictoryinJesus Shows the great value of spending time prayerfully in the Word, right?
 
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friend of

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His father Jacob.

Gen 49:27 Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil.

Phl 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

I dont see how this pegs Paul as a wolf. You are reading things that aren't there
 

Ziggy

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If Satan transforming himself into an angel of light ...does satan give sight to the blind?

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

Job 41:15 His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.
Act 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Act 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

Jeremiah 32:6-25
And Jeremiah said, The word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Behold, Hanameel the son of Shallum thine uncle shall come unto thee, saying, Buy thee my field that is in Anathoth: for the right of redemption is thine to buy it.
So Hanameel mine uncle's son came to me in the court of the prison according to the word of the LORD, and said unto me, Buy my field, I pray thee, that is in Anathoth, which is in the country of Benjamin: for the right of inheritance is thine, and the redemption is thine; buy it for thyself. Then I knew that this was the word of the LORD.
And I bought the field of Hanameel my uncle's son, that was in Anathoth, and weighed him the money, even seventeen shekels of silver.
And I subscribed the evidence, and sealed it, and took witnesses, and weighed him the money in the balances.
So I took the evidence of the purchase, both that which was sealed according to the law and custom, and that which was open:
And I gave the evidence of the purchase unto Baruch the son of Neriah, the son of Maaseiah, in the sight of Hanameel mine uncle's son, and in the presence of the witnesses that subscribed the book of the purchase, before all the Jews that sat in the court of the prison.
And I charged Baruch before them, saying,
Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Take these evidences, this evidence of the purchase, both which is sealed, and this evidence which is open; and put them in an earthen vessel, that they may continue many days.
For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Houses and fields and vineyards shall be possessed again in this land.
Now when I had delivered the evidence of the purchase unto Baruch the son of Neriah, I prayed unto the LORD, saying,
Ah Lord GOD! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee:
Thou shewest lovingkindness unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them: the Great, the Mighty God, the LORD of hosts, is his name,
Great in counsel, and mighty in work: for thine eyes are open upon all the ways of the sons of men: to give every one according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings:
Which hast set signs and wonders in the land of Egypt, even unto this day, and in Israel, and among other men; and hast made thee a name, as at this day;
And hast brought forth thy people Israel out of the land of Egypt with signs, and with wonders, and with a strong hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with great terror;
And hast given them this land, which thou didst swear to their fathers to give them, a land flowing with milk and honey;
And they came in, and possessed it; but they obeyed not thy voice, neither walked in thy law; they have done nothing of all that thou commandedst them to do: therefore thou hast caused all this evil to come upon them:
Behold the mounts
, they are come unto the city to take it; and the city is given into the hand of the Chaldeans, that fight against it, because of the sword, and of the famine, and of the pestilence: and what thou hast spoken is come to pass; and, behold, thou seest it.
And thou hast said unto me, O Lord GOD, Buy thee the field for money, and take witnesses; for the city is given into the hand of the Chaldeans.

Hanameel = "God is gracious"
Shallum = "retribution"
Anathoth = "answers to prayer"
Benjamin = "son of the right hand"
Baruch = "blessed"
Neriah = "lamp of Jehovah"
Maaseiah = "Jehovah is a shelter"
Mounts: mound
a military mound, i.e. rampart of besiegers:—bank, mount.
Chaldeans: those persons considered the wisest in the land (by extension)
a Chaldaean (as if so descended); also an astrologer (as if proverbial of that people:—Chaldeans, Chaldees, inhabitants of Chaldea).

Daniel chapter 11:21-45
 

VictoryinJesus

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“It’s just the little things..”
Maybe not so little...but instead at the root of the matter where the bitterness towards Paul comes from. But what if the words have been twisted by ‘the unstable and unlearned unto their own destruction’...like they do will all the scriptures?

just to clarify I meant no disrespect to you. Only suggested the above because I have been offended by some of those things you mentioned from Paul. But not Paul only, but even by things Jesus said. People would tell me how much Jesus did for women and I just couldn’t see it. Even when Jesus would say “woman” to his mother I heard a demeaning tone. It took me some time to even see love in some of his words. But places where I was offended I would ask God. it might be months later before I would be reading His word and He would answer ...and those verses or passages which were offensive became some of my favorites. I’m not saying this is what is going on with you and Paul but only ask you to consider it. Some of the treasures to be seen (imo) is in not avoiding what we find offensive but in seeking out why it is offensive. Just a thought.

I’m going to keep what you shared in my mind and ask God if there is something I need to see differently there with Paul.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Job 41:15 His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.
Act 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

yeah noticed that too.

Job 41:24 His heart is as firm as a stone; yea, as hard as a piece of the nether millstone.


Yet still do not see how that makes the light he saw satan. If God can remove the stone surely He can remove the scales also. Again, do not see satan removing any scales from eyes but instead preferring they stay there.
2 Corinthians 11:12-20 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. [13] For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. [14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. [15] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. [16] I say again, Let no man think me a fool; if otherwise, yet as a fool receive me, that I may boast myself a little. [17] That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting. [18] Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also. [19] For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise. [20] For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face.

2 Corinthians 6:7-10 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, [8] By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true; [9] As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed; [10] As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.
 
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Ziggy

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Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Hos 8:8 Israel is swallowed up: now shall they be among the Gentiles as a vessel wherein is no pleasure.

Luk 8:16 No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light.

Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

[8] And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus. [9] And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.

Act 13:5 And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews: and they had also John to their minister.
Act 13:6 And when they had gone through the isle unto Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew, whose name was Barjesus:

Barjesus = "son of Jesus"

Act 13:7 Which was with the deputy of the country, Sergius Paulus, a prudent man; who called for Barnabas and Saul, and desired to hear the word of God.
Act 13:8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation ) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith.
Act 13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,
Act 13:10And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?
Act 13:11And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand.

Sergius = "earth-born: born a wonder"
Paul or Paulus = "small or little"

Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Dan 8:9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
Dan 8:10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
Dan 8:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
Dan 8:12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

Rom 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
Rom 11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Rom 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
Rom 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
Rom 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Eze 8:1 And it came to pass in the sixth year, in the sixth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I sat in mine house, and the elders of Judah sat before me, that the hand of the Lord GOD fell there upon me.
Eze 8:2 Then I beheld, and lo a likeness as the appearance of fire: from the appearance of his loins even downward, fire; and from his loins even upward, as the appearance of brightness, as the colour of amber.
Eze 8:3 And he put forth the form of an hand, and took me by a lock of mine head; and the spirit lifted me up between the earth and the heaven, and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the inner gate that looketh toward the north; where was the seat of the image of jealousy, which provoketh to jealousy.
Eze 8:4 And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel was there, according to the vision that I saw in the plain.
Eze 8:5 Then said he unto me, Son of man, lift up thine eyes now the way toward the north. So I lifted up mine eyes the way toward the north, and behold northward at the gate of the altar this image of jealousy in the entry.
Eze 8:6 He said furthermore unto me, Son of man, seest thou what they do? even the great abominations that the house of Israel committeth here, that I should go far off from my sanctuary? but turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations.
 

Ziggy

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2Ki 19:3 And they said unto him, Thus saith Hezekiah, This day is a day of trouble, and of rebuke, and blasphemy: for the children are come to the birth, and there is not strength to bring forth.

Isa 37:3 And they said unto him, Thus saith Hezekiah, This day is a day of trouble, and of rebuke, and of blasphemy: for the children are come to the birth, and there is not strength to bring forth.

Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Mat 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Rev 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Act 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
Act 8:2 And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him.
Act 8:3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.
 

VictoryinJesus

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Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened,

the eyes of both of them were opened...yes but could they see if the first thing they did was cover themselves?

Acts 9:8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.
 
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Ziggy

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the eyes of both of them were opened...yes but could they see if the first thing they did was cover themselves?

Acts 9:8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.



Eze 28:11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
Eze 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
Gal 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Gal 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

Jhn 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Rom 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?


 

VictoryinJesus

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2Ki 19:3 And they said unto him, Thus saith Hezekiah, This day is a day of trouble, and of rebuke, and blasphemy: for the children are come to the birth, and there is not strength to bring forth.

Isa 37:3 And they said unto him, Thus saith Hezekiah, This day is a day of trouble, and of rebuke, and of blasphemy: for the children are come to the birth, and there is not strength to bring forth.

Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Mat 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Rev 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Act 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
Act 8:2 And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him.
Act 8:3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.

clearly you have given this much thought. All the post, it would only let me quote one. If you are correct then I do not know where that leaves me, except having to start over again. A lot of good passages to consider. Thank you.
 
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Ziggy

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clearly you have given this much thought. All the post, it would only let me quote one. If you are correct then I do not know where that leaves me, except having to start over again. A lot of good passages to consider. Thank you.
I'm not thinking..
I hear, look here, go there... and I copy paste.
It just is what it is..

HUGS
 

Heart2Soul

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I'm having a battle with Paul. I've asked Peter to come and work this out with me.
I've had this battle before but have not found a resolution.
In truth, I see Paul as the wolf who comes in and scatters the sheep.
Leading them towards the gentiles rather then leading the gentiles to God.
I am supposed to take the word of a man, that Jesus showed himself to him,
and no one with him could verify this. He has no witnesses.
John was a witness, the works that Jesus did was a witness. The words he spoke and the walk he walked are all found in the scriptures.
Paul aka Saul, began under the teaching of one Gamaliel. Who had perfect knowledge of the law. He was a "doctor" of the law. He doctored the law. I hear Jesus saying it is written in your law.. etc.. who was writing their law? Aye Gamaliel, the one Paul was learned by.
He claims to be a Jew and then a Roman, then an Israelite of the tribe of Benjamin.
He set out on a mission to destroy this new body which Jesus himself had begun.
He had letters from the High Priest and those who sat at the council meetings,
no doubt the same stock that had Jesus killed.
And I'm supposed to trust this Pharisee because he said, Jesus said...

I like what Paul says, it sounds sweet. It sounds easy. Just do this and you'll be fine.
I don't trust him. Plain and simple.
Whether you agree or disagree, right now doesn't matter.
He knows the law. He knows the prophets. I just feel he twists them.
All of a sudden what was tithing once every 3 years has now become a weekly collection.
It's a money thing... tv evangelists.. just send money to sow some seed..
a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

The one sign God gave Isreal to show that they followed the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the seventh day Sabbath.
Rome comes in, and mind you Paul claims to be a Roman, and changes the Sabbath to
Sun worship day. We know this. We've read this. it's documented. It's a fact.
And the reason they did so was because they hated the Jews.
IDOLATRY...
#1 cause for Israel backsliding.. every time.

Peter says the unstable and the unlearned wrest with Paul and his epistles.
That his words are hard to be understood. And I find myself hearing:
God is not the author of confusion.

From here forward I am the lunatick son.
I will most likely be falling into the water (grace) and into the fire (judgement) .
Any one who feels inclined to add to the discussion is welcome,
However, let me make this clear, My battle is not with you, it is with Paul
and being led away from God into a world of Idolatry.

Let the battle begin:
The battle belongs to the Lord and the victory is already won.
Why seek man's wisdom concerning His Word? You have the Spirit of Truth, aka the Holy Spirit to teach you.
“But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.”
— 1 John 2:27 (KJV)
There is only one Truth....His Truth.

Now on a personal note...I am surprised at some of your statements. One particular one is to suggest it was Satan speaking to Saul claiming to be Jesus....the Pharisees accused Jesus of performing miracles by the power of Baal....smh.
Simple faith of a child...this would be a good way to see His Word.
I didn't see you as one still on the milk....I now consider maybe you are still growing and on the milk.
In any case, the Holy Spirit will reveal His Word to you as you seek for Truth.
God Bless
 
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Truther

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where can I find this?
Thank You
Did you know in his latter years, Peter was living with and as the gentiles were?....

14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?


Did you know that the Apostles continued to teach the Law is perfect but only for sinners to ....condemn them?...


9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;



Did you know that the Apostles taught those that tried to put the gentiles under the Law were considered witches?...


3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
 

Ziggy

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Did you know in his latter years, Peter was living with and as the gentiles were?....

14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?


Did you know that the Apostles continued to teach the Law is perfect but only for sinners to ....condemn them?...


9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;



Did you know that the Apostles taught those that tried to put the gentiles under the Law were considered witches?...


3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
So your quoting Paul to beat up on Peter?

What's that saying...
steal from Peter to pay Paul..
sounds about right..

Hugs
 

Ziggy

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Paul kept Pentecost. He kept the feast of weeks.
He preached about stealing, committing adultery, fornication, in Timothy he discusses how to honor ones parents and parents how they aught to raise their children. what else? I'm sure all 10 are in there.
I have a problem with the eating at jezebels tables and not worrying about it just because you know it isn't anything.
But not to offend someone who does... that's a problem.

I will say there is a good ending to all this. But you just have to watch the battle because you won't see it otherwise.
Jesus already won. But the world today continues on as it did then. The same bias, the same conflicts are all around us.
People cry inequality, it's not fair.. when Jesus comes back...
Jesus already won... but you won't see it until the battle is played out.

So I'm gonna keep on fighting that good fight.
and if it offends anyone, I'm sorry.. I really am trying to be "careful" and show you all the battle I have with Paul.
As I stated in the very first post... this is my battle.
You want to join in the fray your welcome to,
otherwise you can just watch and be patient for the end.

Because NO MATTER WHAT
GOD WINS IN THE END
AMEN
 

Ziggy

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Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

NLT: Just as the gathering of vultures shows there is a carcass nearby, so these signs indicate that the end is near.

Behold he is in the desert, go not forth..

Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
Gal 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Gal 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

Arabia = "desert or barren"

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Exo 6:5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant.

Exo 13:3 And Moses said unto the people, Remember this day, in which ye came out from Egypt, out of the house of bondage; for by strength of hand the LORD brought you out from this place: there shall no leavened bread be eaten.

Deu 5:6 I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

Ezr 9:8 And now for a little space grace hath been shewed from the LORD our God, to leave us a remnant to escape, and to give us a nail in his holy place, that our God may lighten our eyes, and give us a little reviving in our bondage.

Jhn 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Jhn 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Jhn 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Jhn 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Jhn 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Jhn 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Gal 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.




2Pe 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Col 4:18 The salutation by the hand of me Paul. Remember my bonds. Grace be with you. Amen.
Heb 10:34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
Phl 1:14 And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear.
Eph 6:20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Act 28:17 And it came to pass, that after three days Paul called the chief of the Jews together: and when they were come together, he said unto them, Men and brethren, though I have committed nothing against the people, or customs of our fathers, yet was I delivered prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans.
Act 28:18 Who, when they had examined me, would have let me go, because there was no cause of death in me.
Act 28:19 But when the Jews spake against it, I was constrained to appeal unto Caesar; not that I had ought to accuse my nation of.
Act 28:20 For this cause therefore have I called for you, to see you, and to speak with you: because that for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
 

Ziggy

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For the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.

Psa 33:18 Behold, the eye of the LORD is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy;

Psa 78:1 [[Maschil of Asaph.]] Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth.
Psa 78:2 I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:
Psa 78:3 Which we have heard and known, and our fathers have told us.
Psa 78:4 We will not hide them from their children, shewing to the generation to come the praises of the LORD, and his strength, and his wonderful works that he hath done.
Psa 78:5 For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children:
Psa 78:6 That the generation to come might know them, even the children which should be born; who should arise and declare them to their children:
Psa 78:7 That they might set their hope in God, and not forget the works of God, but keep his commandments:
Psa 78:8 And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with God.
Psa 78:9 The children of Ephraim, being armed, and carrying bows, turned back in the day of battle.
Psa 78:10 They kept not the covenant of God, and refused to walk in his law;
Psa 78:11 And forgat his works, and his wonders that he had shewed them.
Psa 78:12 Marvellous things did he in the sight of their fathers, in the land of Egypt, in the field of Zoan.

Egypt = "land of the Copts"
Egyptians = "double straits"
Zoan = "place of departure"

Isa 19:11 Surely the princes of Zoan are fools, the counsel of the wise counsellors of Pharaoh is become brutish: how say ye unto Pharaoh, I am the son of the wise, the son of ancient kings?

Isa 19:13 The princes of Zoan are become fools, the princes of Noph are deceived; they have also seduced Egypt, even they that are the stay of the tribes thereof.
Noph = "presentability"

Jer 46:14 Declare ye in Egypt, and publish in Migdol, and publish in Noph and in Tahpanhes: say ye, Stand fast, and prepare thee; for the sword shall devour round about thee.
Jer 46:19 O thou daughter dwelling in Egypt, furnish thyself to go into captivity: for Noph shall be waste and desolate without an inhabitant.
Eze 30:13 Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will also destroy the idols, and I will cause their images to cease out of Noph; and there shall be no more a prince of the land of Egypt: and I will put a fear in the land of Egypt.
Eze 30:16 And I will set fire in Egypt: Sin shall have great pain, and No shall be rent asunder, and Noph H5297 shall have distresses daily.

Psa 119:81 CAPH. My soul fainteth for thy salvation: but I hope in thy word.

Psa 119:114 Thou art my hiding place and my shield: I hope in thy word.

Psa 130:7 Let Israel hope in the LORD: for with the LORD there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption.