The Lie Of Religion

bigape · Jun 18, 2010

I have some relatives who are lost and on their way to hell, even though they are very religious and members of a Church.

I clearly understand why they are unsaved and have been asking the Lord to place a doubt in their minds, about there salvation, so that they would call me and ask me how my faith differs from their’s

Here is what I would say........
--------------------------------------------------
True salvation is based upon what the Bible says, and not what any religion or Church says.
And the way of salvation is repeated thousands of times in the Bible, because God knows just how important it is.

The main point, that the Bible teaches about salvation, is that “it is a gift”.......
Ephesians 2:8-9
V.8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
V.9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

God, is offering every human being in the world the “free gift” of salvation, and this is where 99% of the people that don’t get saved, miss the point.
(They can’t understand how good works, can not be part of the way of salvation.)

Well a person must look at “good works” and “salvation” as two completely different things.
(Salvation is getting right with God, by being born again

(Good works, is something that saved people are called to do!)

Until you are able to separate these two things, you will never be saved;
(And the Bible says, your Good works will not get you to heaven!)
“Not of works, lest any man should boast”
--------------------------------------------------
Now I understand how hard this may be for most people to do;
Especially if you have been raised in a particular religion and everyone you know belongs to it.

But this is the truth according to the Bible;
And Jesus himself, told us that this is the way it would be........
Matthew 7:13-14
V.13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
V.14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Most people, will not get saved.

This passage means what it says and says what it means:
Most people will die and go to hell, because most people will reject the truth.
--------------------------------------------------

This is an important subject, so therefore the Bible thoroughly covers it.
And I will be returning to this thread to continue using God’s Word to explain it.

But what I have already said, will be enough for some people;
And if your eyes have been opened to the truth about the way of salvation, than you can get saved right now.

(1) You know that you are a sinner, just like me....Romans 3:23
(2) And realize that your sin, will send you to hell.....Romans 6:23
(3) And you believe that Jesus has paid for your sin.....Romans 5:8
(4) So you are ready to get saved.....
Romans 10:13 “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Bow your head, and ask Jesus to save you right now, and immediately you will be born again!

brionne · Jun 18, 2010

To say that works will not save a person is true because salvation is by 'faith' in Jesus as Romans 3:26 tells us.
However, a person with faith would produce the 'fruits of faith', these are good works. They are a result of coming to know God, developing faith and living in harmony with the holy spirit.

James pointed out at James 2:14 that if we have faith, we will produce good fruits from that faith because it will motive us to live a Godly life. Faith that does not prompt us to do good works is not genuine and will not result in our salvation.

therefore, it is both 'faith AND works' that bring us salvation.

Jesus told Nicodemus that in order to enter the Kingdom of God (which is in heaven) a person must be “born again.” So if you happen to be of the 144,000 who are born again for heavenly life, then you also need faith and works but your faith will lead you to a heavenly hope.

Whereas, if you are of the great crowd mentioned at Revelation 7:9, or of the resurrected ones mentioned at John 5:28-29, then you do NOT need to be born again....The criminal who died beside jesus was not born again, yet Jesus told him 'You will be with me in paradise'... So being born again is not a pre-requisite for salvation.

To be saved you only faith that produces fruits in harmony with God and his spirit. Those fruits will identify you as having faith and therefore God will offer the free gift of salvation to such ones because they will prove what is in their hearts.

bigape · Jun 19, 2010

Hello Pegg

Nice to hear from you.

Your conclusion is a common misinterpretation of God’s Word.

Your statement......

“therefore, it is both 'faith AND works' that bring us salvation.”

.....totally over looks grace(unmerited favor).
--------------------------------------------------
The Bible gives us every detail of salvation:
Not only telling us how to attain it, but explaining to us, why it must be that way.

Salvation isn’t by “faith”, but by “grace through faith”:
We receive God’s grace, when we exercise faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ.
(This is a simultaneous event.) Being born again.

Then after we are born again, we have a victory over sin, and can produce good works.
--------------------------------------------------
Your reference to James 2:14, is part of the answer......
James 2:14
“What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?”

This is part of a discussion about “justification”:
But not justification before God, but justification before man.........
James 2:17
V.17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

The moment we get saved, we are justification before God;(Before having done any good works).
God sees our heart, and knows that we have been changed on the inside.

But this faith, is “dead” in the eyes of other people, if we don’t have any good works......
James 2:18
V.18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

So we are justification before man, by our good works.
--------------------------------------------------
The reason this distinction is so important, is because of Grace.
God’s grace, MUST be a “gift”: Therefore if we do ANYTHING to try and earn it, we nullify it.

brionne · Jun 19, 2010

bigape said:
Hello Pegg

Nice to hear from you.

Your conclusion is a common misinterpretation of God’s Word.

Your statement......

.....totally over looks grace(unmerited favor).
--------------------------------------------------
The Bible gives us every detail of salvation:
Not only telling us how to attain it, but explaining to us, why it must be that way.

Salvation isn’t by “faith”, but by “grace through faith”:
We receive God’s grace, when we exercise faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ.
(This is a simultaneous event.) Being born again.

Right, so faith comes before recieving Gods mercy....its just as Jesus said it would be, "all those exercising faith in me will have everlasting life"

bigape said:
Then after we are born again, we have a victory over sin, and can produce good works.
--------------------------------------------------
Your reference to James 2:14, is part of the answer......
James 2:14
“What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?”

This is part of a discussion about “justification”:
But not justification before God, but justification before man.........
James 2:17
V.17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

The moment we get saved, we are justification before God;(Before having done any good works).
God sees our heart, and knows that we have been changed on the inside.

No one is justified unless they have 'endured till the end' It is wrong to think that once saved always saved ( that is also a common misconception) Matthew 10:22
If a born again christian fails to remain loyal to God and turns aside from the way, he will not continue to be justified in any way shape or form. Hebrews 6:4,5,6

bigape said:
But this faith, is “dead” in the eyes of other people, if we don’t have any good works......
James 2:18
V.18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

So we are justification before man, by our good works.
--------------------------------------------------
The reason this distinction is so important, is because of Grace.
God’s grace, MUST be a “gift”: Therefore if we do ANYTHING to try and earn it, we nullify it.

performing good works does not nullify the free gift. James is simply stating that a person who has true faith will have good works because they are living by their faith. Jesus had works of faith and he told people that if they didnt beleive his words, they should believe his works. John 5:36 "But I have the witness greater than that of John, for the very works that my Father assigned me to accomplish, the works themselves that I am doing, bear witness about me that the Father dispatched me."

Would you say that Jesus works nullified Gods grace in any way? I doubt it. Jesus said that his works proved who he was and so it is with us, if we have works that show our faith, then Gods grace will be upon us.

But I can understand what you are saying about works on their own. So, what we should be asking is does God's grace save those who willfully sin? Im asking this because the grace/mercy of God is freely available to everyone, except for those who willfully sin. According to Hebrews 10:26-27 “If we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left..."

This means there are 'conditions' on receiving Gods mercy. Yes it is a gift, but no, we wont recieve the gift if we do not have true faith that produce in us good fruits.

mjrhealth · Jun 19, 2010

Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Our works count for nought for they are all of the flesh, Jesus did nothing bur what was asked of Him ,His Fathers will, and so it is with us, the woers we do are supposed to be the works that GOd requires of us, If isee a man in need and I provide i have done Gods will, but if I run across to the othe rside of the world to help the poor because a church told me to then its the flesh. Its hard to understand the difference, but it is God that sends not men.

In HIs LOve

dab11999 · Jun 20, 2010

Faith comes from love. Like the child learning to walk who holds out it's hands to it's parents in faith. It believes it's parents will catch it because of faith from love. This is the kind of faith God wants. We are all judged each according to the measure of our works, but by faith we are justified; our sins forgiven. It is credited to us as righteousness. Christ has been granted the power to grant us this righteousness. He didn't come to judge sinners, but to grant salvation to those he judges as righteous. God gave us this hope because he loves us.
In the beginning man committed the sin of not having faith in God. They listened instead to the lies of Satan. It is by faith we must return to God.

Templar81 · Jun 20, 2010

May I ask what your relatives are actually doing wrong?

bigape · Jun 20, 2010

Hi Templar81

You asked..........

“May I ask what your relatives are actually doing wrong?”

That is an interesting question. And Jesus gave us the answer........
John 3:18
“He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”

Every one of us are condemned to hell, because we are all sinners.
But, God sent His Son, to die on the Cross and pay for our sins, so that we won’t have to go to hell.

And if anyone(by faith), accepts the payment that Jesus made on our behalf, by asking Jesus to save them, than they are saved from hell.

The Bible also teaches, that if anyone tries to pay any of their sin debt themselves, than they are rejecting God’s payment.
--------------------------------------------------
My relatives, being talked about in this thread, are being taught by their religion, to help Jesus pay their sin debt and as a consequence, they are rejecting God’s free gift of salvation.

They can’t understand, how it can be wrong to do religious things: And it’s not.
But it is wrong, to do ANY GOOD WORK, in order to gain salvation.

brionne · Jun 20, 2010

bigape said:
My relatives, being talked about in this thread, are being taught by their religion, to help Jesus pay their sin debt and as a consequence, they are rejecting God’s free gift of salvation.

They can’t understand, how it can be wrong to do religious things: And it’s not.
But it is wrong, to do ANY GOOD WORK, in order to gain salvation.

how do you know that they are not simply acting in accord with their faith? A person who has come to know Jesus should be 'following his steps closely' 1 Peter 2:21

Jesus lead a life of self sacrifice, he helped the needy, he gave of himself, he fed the hungry, healed the sick....these were all works motivated by faith. It the sort of life a person who has true faith should demonstrate as a normal everyday part of their lives. These works are also a 'sacrifice' to God, so what is so wrong with your relatives for wanting to live the way Jesus lived by giving of themeselves in one way or another?

I think a worse thing for a christian is to be sitting in a seat of judgement over others. That is certainly not something that Jesus gave any of us the authority to do....in fact he told us not to do it.

bigape · Jun 20, 2010

Hello Pegg

You asked......

“how do you know that they are not simply acting in accord with their faith?”

Well, they are acting in accordance with their faith; But their faith is a lie.
(Because it is contrary to the Word of God!)

I noticed your “Personal Statement of Faith” is, “I have studied the bible for 15 years and believe that it is the only source of truth provided to us by God Jehovah.”

So you should see the importance of following “the only source of truth provided to us by God Jehovah”.
--------------------------------------------------
You also said.......

“Jesus lead a life of self sacrifice, he helped the needy, he gave of himself, he fed the hungry, healed the sick....these were all works motivated by faith. It the sort of life a person who has true faith should demonstrate as a normal everyday part of their lives.”

But what if a person puts their trust in a “false faith”?
If a person doesn’t have Salvation right, nothing else matters in their life.

Our good works will not pay our sin debt, no matter what our motivation is.
--------------------------------------------------
You also said......

“I think a worse thing for a christian is to be sitting in a seat of judgement over others. That is certainly not something that Jesus gave any of us the authority to do....in fact he told us not to do it.”

You must have missed it. Jesus said.......
Matthew 7:15-16
V.15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
V.16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

We are to judge people by their fruit.
Now this is not talking about “the amount of fruit”, as to many good works they do.
But “the king of fruit”, as to the kind of fruit they produce.
(Do they preach the right Gospel or a false gospel?)

And anyone who teaches that we are saved by good works, is teaching a false gospel!

brionne · Jun 21, 2010

bigape said:
Hello Pegg
Well, they are acting in accordance with their faith; But their faith is a lie.
(Because it is contrary to the Word of God!)

I noticed your “Personal Statement of Faith” is, “I have studied the bible for 15 years and believe that it is the only source of truth provided to us by God Jehovah.”

So you should see the importance of following “the only source of truth provided to us by God Jehovah”.

I certainly do see the need to get to the truth of the bible, but the problem is that there are so many different denomiinations out there that it is very difficult to find the one that preaches in accord with the word. If you believe your denomination is teaching in accord with the bible, then you should be able to prove that using your bible. the best thing you could do for your relatives is to show them from the bible why their faith is wrong....but we should never condemn someone for the good that they strive to do because goodness is a godly quality and never would we condemn God for his goodness, would we?

bigape said:
But what if a person puts their trust in a “false faith”?
If a person doesn’t have Salvation right, nothing else matters in their life.

Our good works will not pay our sin debt, no matter what our motivation is.

thats true. This is why the best thing you can do for your relatives is show them the truth from the bible...if you think that you really have it.

bigape said:
Matthew 7:15-16
V.15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
V.16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

We are to judge people by their fruit.
Now this is not talking about “the amount of fruit”, as to many good works they do.
But “the king of fruit”, as to the kind of fruit they produce.
(Do they preach the right Gospel or a false gospel?)

And anyone who teaches that we are saved by good works, is teaching a false gospel!

I agree. We are not saved by good works, we are saved thru Faith in Jesus sacrifice. That is a very basic bible teaching.

However, you must also be balanced in this regard because faith is an active thing. If a person has faith, then they will also have works as a result of that faith. Their faith will motivate them to perform the works of God...things such as kindness, generosity, caring for the needy, helping the less fortunate, showing love, being self sacrificing.

We must acknowledge that faith and works go hand in hand....the fruits (works) we produce in ourselves are a result of our faith.

judd · Jun 21, 2010

(3) And you believe that Jesus has paid for your sin.....Romans 5:8
(4) So you are ready to get saved.....
Romans 10:13 “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Bow your head, and ask Jesus to save you right now, and immediately you will be born again!
[/quote]

Does God truly love us? He is the power of powers, right? why does He allow us to go through all these pains of salvation? Does he not have the power or word to speak and save us? Remember, we did not create ourselves. I guess you and I did not ask God Almighty to create us at the very beginning. Sometimes, i feel like God does not love us because He has all power yet He sent Jesus Christ to die for us. He has all powers yet we choose our own ways why He watches. Look at me now, the life i lead now, i know it will lead me to regrets except Almighty God comes to my rescue!

Do you know the meaning of love? Am sorry maybe i have taken this topic to another level but, I feel like pour my heart out!

Why should evil last when it will be destroyed at the end? Sometimes, i see humans as toys used for experiments by Almighty God. I ask for forgiveness from my Creator cause i am feeling guilty now, but God knows my heart!

TallMan · Jun 21, 2010

bigape said:
...
True salvation is based upon what the Bible says, and not what any religion or Church says.
And the way of salvation is repeated thousands of times in the Bible, because God knows just how important it is.

The main point, that the Bible teaches about salvation, is that “it is a gift”.......
Ephesians 2:8-9...

Hi bigape,
you are right that salvation is by grace, not any works but Paul also commented:
"since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:" (Col.1:16)

Many who talk about the grace of God, havn't actually received it, they just think that because they have a belief in Jesus and are not under the law of Moses that they must be under grace - wrong - you are still "in the flesh", under the law of sin and death until you receive "the spirit of grace and supplications" (Zech.12:10), as detailed in Acts 2:4, 10:44-46 and 19:1-6 (the Ephesians who Paul was talking to), evidenced by speaking in tongues.
This is how God saves (delivers) us from a state of being "in sin" / "in the flesh".

Templar81 · Jun 21, 2010

So hang on a minute! Would your relatives happen to be Catholics? It seems implied. You see deeds are important because they are the result of someone really accepting Jesus. If they weren't then why do Churches do so much to help the less fortunate? If a person reads the Bible and say's he accepts Jesus but does nothing about it, then surely he's only really half way there and Jesus is only in his head, not in his heart. This is basically what martin Luther said. Your right though we are automatically dammed unless we are saved, but you can't judge wether a person is saved or not, it isn't for you, me or anyone else to do. Leave the judging to God because he knows the secrets of our hearts and minds. I'm not saying don't do anything because if your genuinly concerned for their spiritual well being then you should talk to them and use scripture to remind them abotu grace, but try not to come accrossin a judging manner because it will only turn them off to what you have to say.

Matthew 25 shows us 7 acts of mercy. These are things Jesus told us to do for one another but it is not in performing these acts that we become christians, but in being Christians we perform these acts.

Selene · Jun 21, 2010

bigape said:
I have some relatives who are lost and on their way to hell, even though they are very religious and members of a Church.

I clearly understand why they are unsaved and have been asking the Lord to place a doubt in their minds, about there salvation, so that they would call me and ask me how my faith differs from their’s

Here is what I would say........
--------------------------------------------------
True salvation is based upon what the Bible says, and not what any religion or Church says.
And the way of salvation is repeated thousands of times in the Bible, because God knows just how important it is.

The main point, that the Bible teaches about salvation, is that “it is a gift”.......
Ephesians 2:8-9
V.8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
V.9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

God, is offering every human being in the world the “free gift” of salvation, and this is where 99% of the people that don’t get saved, miss the point.
(They can’t understand how good works, can not be part of the way of salvation.)

Well a person must look at “good works” and “salvation” as two completely different things.
(Salvation is getting right with God, by being born again
(Good works, is something that saved people are called to do!)

Until you are able to separate these two things, you will never be saved;
(And the Bible says, your Good works will not get you to heaven!)
“Not of works, lest any man should boast”
--------------------------------------------------
Now I understand how hard this may be for most people to do;
Especially if you have been raised in a particular religion and everyone you know belongs to it.

But this is the truth according to the Bible;
And Jesus himself, told us that this is the way it would be........
Matthew 7:13-14
V.13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
V.14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Most people, will not get saved.

This passage means what it says and says what it means:
Most people will die and go to hell, because most people will reject the truth.
--------------------------------------------------

This is an important subject, so therefore the Bible thoroughly covers it.
And I will be returning to this thread to continue using God’s Word to explain it.

But what I have already said, will be enough for some people;
And if your eyes have been opened to the truth about the way of salvation, than you can get saved right now.

(1) You know that you are a sinner, just like me....Romans 3:23
(2) And realize that your sin, will send you to hell.....Romans 6:23
(3) And you believe that Jesus has paid for your sin.....Romans 5:8
(4) So you are ready to get saved.....
Romans 10:13 “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Bow your head, and ask Jesus to save you right now, and immediately you will be born again!

Hello Bigape,

We are not called to judge anyone. Only Jesus can judge and He will judge. I don't know who your relatives are, but I do know Jesus. Jesus was merciful to the sinners that He even forgave the Roman soldiers who nailed Him to the cross. And these Roman soldiers were pagans. They didn't know who He was because they were ignorant, but He forgave them anyway. Thank goodness that humans are not the ones to judge. Only Jesus will judge, and we always pray for His mercy.

In Christ,
Selene

rjp34652@yahoo.com · Jun 21, 2010

bigape said:
I have some relatives who are lost and on their way to hell, even though they are very religious and members of a Church.

I clearly understand why they are unsaved and have been asking the Lord to place a doubt in their minds, about there salvation, so that they would call me and ask me how my faith differs from their’s

Here is what I would say........
--------------------------------------------------
True salvation is based upon what the Bible says, and not what any religion or Church says.
And the way of salvation is repeated thousands of times in the Bible, because God knows just how important it is.

The main point, that the Bible teaches about salvation, is that “it is a gift”.......
Ephesians 2:8-9
V.8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
V.9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

God, is offering every human being in the world the “free gift” of salvation, and this is where 99% of the people that don’t get saved, miss the point.
(They can’t understand how good works, can not be part of the way of salvation.)

Well a person must look at “good works” and “salvation” as two completely different things.
(Salvation is getting right with God, by being born again
(Good works, is something that saved people are called to do!)

Until you are able to separate these two things, you will never be saved;
(And the Bible says, your Good works will not get you to heaven!)
“Not of works, lest any man should boast”
--------------------------------------------------
Now I understand how hard this may be for most people to do;
Especially if you have been raised in a particular religion and everyone you know belongs to it.

But this is the truth according to the Bible;
And Jesus himself, told us that this is the way it would be........
Matthew 7:13-14
V.13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
V.14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Most people, will not get saved.

This passage means what it says and says what it means:
Most people will die and go to hell, because most people will reject the truth.
--------------------------------------------------

This is an important subject, so therefore the Bible thoroughly covers it.
And I will be returning to this thread to continue using God’s Word to explain it.

But what I have already said, will be enough for some people;
And if your eyes have been opened to the truth about the way of salvation, than you can get saved right now.

(1) You know that you are a sinner, just like me....Romans 3:23
(2) And realize that your sin, will send you to hell.....Romans 6:23
(3) And you believe that Jesus has paid for your sin.....Romans 5:8
(4) So you are ready to get saved.....
Romans 10:13 “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Bow your head, and ask Jesus to save you right now, and immediately you will be born again!

You didn't say which church your people are following to perdition.
One needs a target in order to fire an accurate and effective reply.

It's been my experience that individual foolishness is not always the fault of a particular church or its creed.
Usually its the fault of inadequate Christian education and a leader who is more interested in attendance figures and the church bankroll than in pure souls.

bigape · Jun 21, 2010

Hello again Pegg

You said........

“I certainly do see the need to get to the truth of the bible, but the problem is that there are so many different denomiinations out there that it is very difficult to find the one that preaches in accord with the word. If you believe your denomination is teaching in accord with the bible, then you should be able to prove that using your bible.”

Have you ever wondered why there are so many different denominations?
Each denomination is different, according to how close they stick to the Bible.

For instance Methodists, preach the right Gospel(the same message I preach), yet they aren’t as close to the Bible as I am, because most of them don’t baptize in the right way.
Also the Pentecostals, preach the same message I do for salvation(they are my brothers and sisters in Christ), yet they don’t stick as close to the Bible as I do, because of their tongue speaking and women preachers.

I could go on and on, but you get the point.

I am an independent fundamental Baptist, and my "local Church" follows the Bible 100% of the time.
And we are on guard all the time, for any “unbiblical” practice sneaking in.)
--------------------------------------------------
You also said.......

“The best thing you could do for your relatives is to show them from the bible why their faith is wrong....but we should never condemn someone for the good that they strive to do because goodness is a godly quality and never would we condemn God for his goodness, would we?”

Well I have shown them from Scripture, where their faith is in error, yet they just don’t seem to get it. So all that is left for me to do is pray for them.

As for “the good that they strive to do”: As I have said, there is nothing wrong with that, unless you are doing it to somehow pay off God for your sins.
And that is what they are doing.
--------------------------------------------------
Next you said........

“I agree. We are not saved by good works, we are saved thru Faith in Jesus sacrifice. That is a very basic bible teaching.”

You are leaving out a very important point.
We are not “saved through faith in Jesus”: We are saved by Grace, through faith.
Ephesians 2:8
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:”

Grace is “unmerited favor”.
That means that salvation can only be attained, when we leave it completely up to God.
Our salvation must be a “GIFT”, or it is not real.
--------------------------------------------------
You continued........

“However, you must also be balanced in this regard because faith is an active thing. If a person has faith, then they will also have works as a result of that faith. Their faith will motivate them to perform the works of God...things such as kindness, generosity, caring for the needy, helping the less fortunate, showing love, being self sacrificing.”

Wrong;
In the case of my OP, "religion" is the motivating factor, for their good works.
(They are being taught that if they do good works, they will be right with God!)

In Christianity, it is the indwelling Holy Spirit, that motivates and enables us to live a Godly life.
Salvation gives us a VICTORY over sin, so that we “don’t have to sin any more”!
--------------------------------------------------
Lastly you said........

“We must acknowledge that faith and works go hand in hand....the fruits (works) we produce in ourselves are a result of our faith.”

Not necessarily.
Just because someone may have a life full of “good works“, doesn’t mean that they are saved.
As I have said, good works are not always a result of faith.

Nice visiting with you

bigape · Jun 21, 2010

Hi judd

You asked..........

“Does God truly love us?”

Yes He does and He proved it by sending Jesus to earth to die for us.
--------------------------------------------------
You also asked.......

“He is the power of powers, right? Why does He allow us to go through all these pains of salvation?”

No He is not. Who told you that.
There are several things, that God "can not do".
(1) God can not sin!
(2)God can not go against His own Word!
(3)God will not act against our will, for our life!
--------------------------------------------------
Next you asked.......

“Does he not have the power or word to speak and save us? Remember, we did not create ourselves. I guess you and I did not ask God Almighty to create us at the very beginning. Sometimes, i feel like God does not love us because He has all power yet He sent Jesus Christ to die for us.”

No He doesn’t.
Because God’s Word says..........
Ezekiel 18:20
“The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.”

“The soul that sinneth, it shall die”: This is God’s Word, and not even God can go against it.
(1) We are all sinners, because God has given us a free will: and natural man will always choose to sin.
(2) Therefore, all of us have a death sentence over our heads.
(3) But God loves us, and does not want to send any of us to hell.
(So what was God to do???)

-If He could only find one person, who had never sinned: He could take our punishment and put it on that one person: Therefore giving us a way to miss hell.-
But alas, every human being is a sinner.

So God came up with an idea: “I know, I will send my Son to Earth and He will live a perfect life and then I will be able to use his death to pay for the sins of every human being.”

So that is what He did.

And Jesus willingly went to the cross, because He loved us and He was being obedient to His Father.

(1) So now, the payment for our sin, has been made available to every human being.

(2) And all people have to do is.....
...........(a)Realize that they are a sinner, and need to get saved:
...........(b)And “Believe” that Jesus died on the cross for them:
...........(c)And ask Jesus to save them.

(3) Yet billions of people won’t do it, for several reasons:
..........(a)This sounds too easy: it can’t be true.
..........(b)Or pride will stop them: “If God wants to save me, let Him do it”: “I am not going to ask for anything?”
..........(c)Or ignorance:....."It just doesn’t “feel” right, leaving it all up to God".
(d)
(e)

We didn’t ask to be created, but praise the Lord that we were, so that we could have the opportunity to get saved.

Salvation is wonderful.
--------------------------------------------------
Then you said........

“He has all powers yet we choose our own ways why He watches. Look at me now, the life i lead now, i know it will lead me to regrets except Almighty God comes to my rescue!”

He “can” come to your rescue, if you ask Him to.
But if you never ask, than you for sure will not be rescued.
--------------------------------------------------
Finally you said.......

“Do you know the meaning of love? Am sorry maybe i have taken this topic to another level but, I feel like pour my heart out!
Why should evil last when it will be destroyed at the end? Sometimes, i see humans as toys used for experiments by Almighty God. I ask for forgiveness from my Creator cause i am feeling guilty now, but God knows my heart!”

judd, I know exactly where you are coming from.
Life can get real confusing.
But there is hope.

God loves you(personally), and wants you to have all your questions answered.
It all starts with honest and humility.

You are a sinner, just like I am.
The first step is admitting this to yourself and to God.

Now as a sinner, you need to be saved.
(This is the problem with most unsaved religious people.)
They have a hard time getting saved, because they don’t realize that they are unsaved.

Once you can admit, that you are unsaved and heading for hell, than you are heading in the right direction.

Now, you have to believe that God loves YOU and has sent His Son Jesus to die FOR YOU.........
Romans 5:8
“But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”

Now if you are still with me, and you have accepted these truths as fact, than you are ready to get saved.
By asking Jesus to save you...........
Romans 10:9-10
V.9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
V.10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

and

Romans 10:13
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
--------------------------------------------------
I remember the day that I got saved, in the front seat of my 1964 Chevy pickup, during my lunch break from work.
I had heard a preacher on the radio, and he preached the same message that I have preached to you.

After bowing my head and asking Jesus to save me, I didn’t feel any different, but boy I was, because I found myself wanting to study the Bible(and I did).

Also, I immediately noticed, that every time I cussed, I felt bad about it, so I stopped cussing.
This went on and on, and the LORD slowly cleaned up my life.
(As I kept studying the Bible and obeying His voice.)

It was nice to hear from you

pastorlesofm · Jun 21, 2010

bigape said:
Hi judd

You asked..........

Yes He does and He proved it by sending Jesus to earth to die for us.
--------------------------------------------------
You also asked.......

No He is not. Who told you that.
There are several things, that God "can not do".
(1) God can not sin!
(2)God can not go against His own Word!
(3)God will not act against our will, for our life!
--------------------------------------------------
Next you asked.......

No He doesn’t.
Because God’s Word says..........
Ezekiel 18:20
“The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.”

“The soul that sinneth, it shall die”: This is God’s Word, and not even God can go against it.
(1) We are all sinners, because God has given us a free will: and natural man will always choose to sin.
(2) Therefore, all of us have a death sentence over our heads.
(3) But God loves us, and does not want to send any of us to hell.
(So what was God to do???)

-If He could only find one person, who had never sinned: He could take our punishment and put it on that one person: Therefore giving us a way to miss hell.-
But alas, every human being is a sinner.

So God came up with an idea: “I know, I will send my Son to Earth and He will live a perfect life and then I will be able to use his death to pay for the sins of every human being.”

So that is what He did.

And Jesus willingly went to the cross, because He loved us and He was being obedient to His Father.

(1) So now, the payment for our sin, has been made available to every human being.

(2) And all people have to do is.....
...........(a)Realize that they are a sinner, and need to get saved:
...........(b)And “Believe” that Jesus died on the cross for them:
...........©And ask Jesus to save them.

(3) Yet billions of people won’t do it, for several reasons:
..........(a)This sounds too easy: it can’t be true.
..........(b)Or pride will stop them: “If God wants to save me, let Him do it”: “I am not going to ask for anything?”
..........©Or ignorance:....."It just doesn’t “feel” right, leaving it all up to God".
(d)
(e)

We didn’t ask to be created, but praise the Lord that we were, so that we could have the opportunity to get saved.

Salvation is wonderful.
--------------------------------------------------
Then you said........

He “can” come to your rescue, if you ask Him to.
But if you never ask, than you for sure will not be rescued.
--------------------------------------------------
Finally you said.......

judd, I know exactly where you are coming from.
Life can get real confusing.
But there is hope.

God loves you(personally), and wants you to have all your questions answered.
It all starts with honest and humility.

You are a sinner, just like I am.
The first step is admitting this to yourself and to God.

Now as a sinner, you need to be saved.
(This is the problem with most unsaved religious people.)
They have a hard time getting saved, because they don’t realize that they are unsaved.

Once you can admit, that you are unsaved and heading for hell, than you are heading in the right direction.

Now, you have to believe that God loves YOU and has sent His Son Jesus to die FOR YOU.........
Romans 5:8
“But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”

Now if you are still with me, and you have accepted these truths as fact, than you are ready to get saved.
By asking Jesus to save you...........
Romans 10:9-10
V.9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
V.10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

and

Romans 10:13
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
--------------------------------------------------
I remember the day that I got saved, in the front seat of my 1964 Chevy pickup, during my lunch break from work.
I had heard a preacher on the radio, and he preached the same message that I have preached to you.

After bowing my head and asking Jesus to save me, I didn’t feel any different, but boy I was, because I found myself wanting to study the Bible(and I did).

Also, I immediately noticed, that every time I cussed, I felt bad about it, so I stopped cussing.
This went on and on, and the LORD slowly cleaned up my life.
(As I kept studying the Bible and obeying His voice.)

It was nice to hear from you

Wonderful response and thoughts, the Lord bless you.

bigape · Jun 21, 2010

Hi Templar81

You asked.......

“So hang on a minute! Would your relatives happen to be Catholics? It seems implied.”

No they are not, but they might as well be.
Most false religions, weather they be Catholics or Jw’s or Mormons or 7th day adventist, etc. are all the same, at the heart.
Because they all teach “Salvation by good works”.
--------------------------------------------------
You also said.......

“You see deeds are important because they are the result of someone really accepting Jesus. If they weren't then why do Churches do so much to help the less fortunate? If a person reads the Bible and say's he accepts Jesus but does nothing about it, then surely he's only really half way there and Jesus is only in his head, not in his heart.”

I call this, “missing heaven by 18 inches”: (The distance from your head to your heart!)

But no, they aren’t “half way there”: They aren’t any of the way there.
(They have to go back to the beginning, before they trusted good works and ask Jesus to save them.)
--------------------------------------------------
You also said........

“This is basically what martin Luther said. Your right though we are automatically dammed unless we are saved, but you can't judge wether a person is saved or not, it isn't for you, me or anyone else to do. Leave the judging to God because he knows the secrets of our hearts and minds.”

You are only half right;
Your right, we can’t see into a person’s heart, but some times we can know if they are saved or not.

For instance, if a murderer says that he is saved, he might just be.
(Because even a Christian who gets away from the Word and the Lord, can commit murder.)

But if someone says that they are saved, and then preaches a false gospel, than we know for sure that they are not saved.
(Because no matter how far a Christian gets away from the Lord, they will never deny the faith.)
--------------------------------------------------
Next you said.......

“I'm not saying don't do anything because if your genuinly concerned for their spiritual well being then you should talk to them and use scripture to remind them abotu grace, but try not to come accrossin a judging manner because it will only turn them off to what you have to say. Matthew 25 shows us 7 acts of mercy. These are things Jesus told us to do for one another but it is not in performing these acts that we become christians, but in being Christians we perform these acts.”

I agree with these statements.

Have a great day

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