Mother of Jesus?

theefaith · Nov 18, 2020

101G said:
ERROR, the church was built, which is Spiritual, Mary is phyical. so that want fly.

Another ERROR, Acts 11:26 "And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch."

we can discuss the woman later,

but since we cannot get an answer to the Mary, birthing a spirit question, lets put that lie to rest, God is a Spirit, and the Lord Jesus is the Diversified "spirit" of God who came in flesh, lets see why all "spirit" that are in flesh bodies come from.. answer, Isaiah 42:5 "Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:"

the spirit is NOT birthed, by any woman, and when we die the "spirit" returns to the one who gives it. scripture, Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." bingo.

so Jesus is not birthed, but the body that he came in was birthed. again, Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

so Mary is not the biological Mother of the Lord Jesus, but only his surrogget Mother of the flesh he came in. for no woman can birth a "spirit", bonly flesh and blood. now to be a biological Mother, she must have a biological husdand of her own to produce a body of them both. which means that the child is a PARTAKER of flesh and blood form his parents.

well in our Lord's case, he had neither mother nor father biologically. so that Mother of God is a MOTHER of all LIES.

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

you still have matt 16:18 18:18 Lk 10:16 Jn 20:21-22 to deal with
The teaching authority of Peter The apostles and their successors!

Mother of God
Council Of Ephesus – 431 A.D.

If anyone does not confess that Emmanuel is God in truth, and therefore that the holy virgin is the mother of God (for she bore in a fleshly way the Word of God become flesh) let him be anathema.

Lk 1:43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

ReChoired · Nov 18, 2020

Illuminator said:
Seventh Day Adventism is obsessed with misrepresenting and teaching lies about Catholicism. Their inflammatory rhetoric is a constant nuisance on this board. You have no credibility.

I was Roman Catholic for 30 years, confirmed, etc and even briefly ministered in a specialized ministry of which EWTN stated were "Experts in their field.", which field dealt with the history of the Catholic Church, its saints, miracles, places of visitation, &c. The ministry still exists, though now no longer in the location it once was.

I cited all of the Catholic sources, with their own definitions, from their primary and accepted (even Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur, Imprimi Potest, etc) sources. For instance, one such source, was the 'holy angelic doctor' Thomas Aquinas in the Summa Theologica.

That I am now a Seventh-day Adventist has no bearing on their stated materials.

That which was presented was presented correctly, and if you think otherwise, state the case with link and prove your assertion with the evidence in the posted materials.

Otherwise, what you have done, is simply hand-waving.

ReChoired · Nov 18, 2020

theefaith said:
Mother of God
Council Of Ephesus – 431 A.D.

Mar_13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

That a 'council' of apostates (since the times even before Constantine, Sylvester, which were semi-arian, read The Two Republics - https://archive.org/download/sda-a-t-jones-the-two-republics/SDA - A T Jones - The Two Republics.pdf etc) declares something, doesn't make it approved by scripture. Again, you did not provide one single MS, Codice, Papyrus, &c, or even an English translation which reads "mother of God" in Luke 1:43. The strongest support pillar of Romanism's doctrine, is non-existent.

Paul warned day and night with tears about the rising up of false bishops, as "wolves" (like the Capitoline Wolf of Rome) in "sheeps" (Christian) clothing (outward garb):

Roman%20Catholicism%20-%20Wolves%20In%20Sheeps%20Clothing%2001%20-%20Rome%20The%20Capitoline%20Wolf.jpg

Roman%20Catholicism%20-%20Wolves%20In%20Sheeps%20Clothing%2002.png

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

Act 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

ReChoired · Nov 18, 2020

theefaith said:
Matthew 27:52
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Yep. Show me where 'Mary' (who was still alive at the time; Acts 1:14) was one of them. She wasn't. She did not return with Jesus to Heaven. One who might have, might be John the Baptist, but neither the scripture, nor historical source, nor SoP/ToJ say. They are not the 24 elders, who were already in existence even before this world was created, see Isaiah 24:23; Job 1 & 2, 1 Kings 22; 2 Chronicles 18, and the pattern (which existed in Heaven already) that was given to Moses (to pattern after on earth; Numbers 2, &c), etc.

theefaith said:
Lk 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

Luke 16 is a Parable in the midst of a series of Parables, and Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees, of which he always spake to them in Parables as foretold in Psalms. It also doesn't mean what you think it does, for we can simply identify the symbols therein. Want the evidence for that from the scripture?

theefaith said:
rev 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

24 Elders are not human. They are beings, Leaders, of the unfallen worlds, that were already in existence before the earth was created.

None of the texts you cite, say anything about "Mary" being in Heaven - at all. In fact, each of the texts you cite, are all before the timeframe of Mary's death.

4 “Beasts” (Living Creatures) – Ezekiel 1:5,13,14,15,19, 3:3, 10:1,2,3,5,6,7,8,9,15,16,18,19,20, 11:22; Revelation 4:6,8, 5:6,8,11,14, 6:1,6, 7:11, 14:3, 15:7, 19:4. See also the two cherubim on the ark, and the two greater Cherubim that Solomon made in the Stone Temple, making 4. “Living” also means filled with the Spirit of God, see Genesis 2:7.

“Beasts” = Kingdoms, and since they are Heavenly “Beasts:”, they are representing Heavenly Kingdoms/Waters, etc. Daniel 7:17,19; Genesis 49:9; Isaiah 27:1, 46:11; Jeremiah 4:7, 5:6, 12:8, 25:38, 49:19, 50:44; Ezekiel 17:3,7, 32:2; Daniel 7:7,17,19,23, 8:20,21; Joel 1:6; Micah 5:8; Revelation 13:1,2,3,7,11,12, 17:3,7,8,11,12, etc.

“Four” = universal; Genesis 2:10; Exodus 20:8-11, etc.

24 = 12x2, 6x4, 8x3, etc.

“elders” = “ancients”/”old”, “grayheaded”, also indicates “overseer”, leading positions.

24 elders = strong angels, leaders of the unfallen worlds, and are NOT (*) human. - Revelation 4:4,10, 5:5,6,8,11,14, 7:11,13, 11:16, 14:3, 19:4; Isaiah 24:23 (ancients), see also Ezekiel 8:15-17, 11:1-2. See also the type in the OT on earth, which mirrored that which existed in Heaven - Numbers 1:50-53, 2:2-3,5,7,10,12,14,16,17,18,20,22,24,25,27,29,31,34, 3:17,23,29,35,38; Deuteronomy 1:15; 1 Chronicles 27:1-15

What about Revelation 5:6, “redeemed us”? This is only a single text, and is not to be abused/wrested. It must always be in the mouth of two or three witnesses. How we know that they (24 Elders) are not human -

1. They already have crowns. The saints (human) of God, do not get those until their resurrection/translation. 1 Thessalonians 2:19; 2 Timothy 4:8; James 1:12; 1 Peter 5:4, see also Hebrews 2:7,9; 2 Timothy 2:5, as Jesus received Crown.

2. They already have white robes. They are sinless.

3. They do not ever appear in Revelation with victory Palms, but only the human saints who were resurrected and translated do.

4. We know who they are NOT – They are not the Apostles (12 or Paul), since they are all still deceased in the first death (for they all died after Jesus ascended, and John is the one writing Revelation on the Isle of Patmos), and not resurrected. They are not any of Adam, Noah, Job, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob/Israel, or any of the 12 Sons of Jacob/Israel, David, since they are still deceased in the first death, and not resurrected (see Hebrews 11, Abraham, etc is still waiting, see Acts 2, David is still waiting, etc), and it only included a special group that was buried around Jerusalem (thus possibly John the Baptist, but scripture, and SoP/ToJ do not ever say who or how many). The only other humans in Heaven before then was Enoch, Elijah, Moses.

5. Some try to link the special resurrection around Jerusalem, in Matthew 27, when Jesus resurrected to the '24'. Yet, we are never told in any location exactly who or how many were in that special resurrection, and there is no indication of young or old – see Psalms 24:1-10, 68:18; Ephesians 4:8; 1 Corinthians 15:20,23; Isaiah 26:19.

6. Neither Jesus, nor the specially resurrected saints from Jerusalem, nor even the 'angels' are seen in Revelation 4, at all. It is only the Father, the 4 Beasts (Living Creatures) and the 24 Elders/Ancients, which are all already present before Jesus even shows up with 'victory train'.

7. Jesus shows up, along with the angels in Revelation 5, after which we were already introduced to the 24 Elders/Ancients in Revelation 4.

8. The “thrones” (principalities, powers, etc) of Heaven, already existed before earth was even created, see also John 14:1-3 (a place, which was vacant by the angels which left their first estate/(arch)offices); Matthew 18:10-14; Luke 15:3-7; Revelation 12:12; Hebrews 1:2, 11:3; Job 1:6, 2:1; 1 Kings 22:19-24; 2 Chronicles 18:18-23; Colossians 1:6; Isaiah 14:13; etc.

9. The 24 Elders have in their hands the “incense” “with” the “prayers of the saints”, which means they are praying/singing on behalf of someone else, see that Angels, etc carry prayer to heaven, Daniel 9:21-23, 10:11; Matthew 18:10; Acts 10:34, and see that Angels are “ministering spirits” - Hebrews 1:7,14; Psalms 104:4, and thus connect with Revelation 5:8-11. Jesus speaks on behalf of the Father (and comes in the name of the Father), and the Holy Ghost speaks on behalf of Jesus (ie, comes in the name of Jesus).

What then about the “crowns” that the 24 Elders wear, are they not a “stephanos” (a victory crown)? They are “stephanos”, but this can simply mean a crown worn, though it can also mean a victory crown (didn't Jesus also win the victory for the heavenly beings also? Rejoice ye heavens, etc, Revelation 12), see also Revelation 9:7, wherein the 'locust' also have something like a 'crown' (stephanos). See also the so-called LXX (work of Origen, etc) uses, wherein it is just a crown, see so-called LXX 2 Samuel 12:30; 1 Chronicles 20:2; Esther 8:15; Psalms 21:3, 65:11; Proverbs 1:9, 4:9; Job 19:9, 31:36; Ezekiel 16:12, 21:31, 23:42; Isaiah 22:18,21; Song of Solomon 3:11; Psalms 102:4, and see also the LXX (Apocrypha) 1 Maccabees 10:20, 13:37,39; Sirach 6:31, 15:6, 32:2, 40:4, 45:12, etc. The other worlds also had tests similar to that of Adam. They never sinned.

For the Seventh-day Adventist:

(*) SoP/ToJ – Letter 65, 1898, par. 18; MR 12 (921-999), 296.4; MR 20 (1420-1500), 197.3 – (citing Revelation 5:5; “elder”) - “... that one of the strong angels had compassion on him, and laying his hand on him assuringly said, “Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. ...”

(*) SoP/ToJ – Sermons and Talks, Volume 1, 35.2; Signs of the Times, Dec. 22, 1887, par. 7 – (citing Revelation 7:13-15; “elder”) - “... And the angel answers, “These are they which came out of great tribulation ...”

On earth, as it is in heaven (stolen by occult as “As above, so below”) - Matthew 6:10; Luke 11:2

ReChoired · Nov 18, 2020

theefaith said:
Perpetual Virginity of Mary!

Mary conceived "without any detriment to her virginity, which remained inviolate even after his birth" (apostolic Council of the Lateran, 649)

Perpetual Virginity of Mary!

I cited the scripture, which was 600 years before that apostate Council (Matthew 10:17; Mark 13:9). Why would you accept that council over the Bible?

"... The Lateran Council of 649 was a local council of the Church of Rome organized by Maximus the Confessor and called by Pope Theodore I of Rome ..." - Lateran Council - OrthodoxWiki

Simply repeating it, doesn't make it true. Also, using circular logic (catholic council, approving a catholic doctrine, justifying your present position of catholicism).

Do you accept everything at that council? If so ... Canons of the Lateran Council of 649 — Classical Christianity

I have some specific questions for you.

theefaith said:
The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!

True. I stated that the brothers (four) and sisters (at least two) were of Joseph previously (older than Jesus, with another woman who was then dead). They are the step-brothers/sisters of Jesus. Yet, none of that, including Mary no longer having any children after Jesus, has anything to do with being a perpetual virgin. Persons can have marital relationship in the undefiled bed without having children, see Abraham (Abram) and Sarah (Sarai). The argument that Mary had no further children, does not equate to having no relations with her husband, Joseph.

It is a logical fallacy.

theefaith said:
And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!

Yes, Jesus is holy. Jesus the Immanuel, the God with us, but Mary is not the Mother of God (Deity). Jesus was very clear about this on several points, for instance:

Luk_2:49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?

Mat_12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
Mar_3:33 And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?

Luk_11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

Her child is the Messiah/Christ. God (Deity) cannot be generated, as it has no beginning and no ending.

theefaith said:
Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)

Yes, already acknowledged if you would read my response. Yet, you make a leap in logic from that to "perpetual virginity". Simply being barren, having no other children (which by the way, destroys the hymen, the veil of flesh), does not equate to being a "perpetual virgin". Isaiah spoke of Mary giving birth, that is true, but it says nothing about "virginity" afterward.

theefaith said:
Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”

That is just bizarre. You took that text completely out of context. It refers to the Temple, not Mary:

Eze 44:1 Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it was shut.

Are you saying that Mary's 'field and furrow' pointed "east"? Did you even read on the other side also?

Eze 44:3 It [the gate] is for the prince; the prince, he shall sit in it to eat bread before the LORD; he shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate, and shall go out by the way of the same.

Did you just get a bizarre mental picture from that one, according to your theology? Are you saying that Ezekiel was shown something about the private area of Mary? Are you sure you are not rather spiritually ill?

theefaith said:
Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.

That is speaking about Solomon's wife (not his mother!), and about the church in general, as Solomon is a type of Christ (https://archive.org/download/typology-solomon/Typology - Solomon.pptx). Notice, the words "sister", and "spouse", not "mother". In order for marriage to be true, one (man) must marry a 'spiritual sister in the Lord', for if not, this always brought apostasy, even as it did for Solomon:

See the following for comparison with the Genesis 6:2,4 KJB account:

See Abraham and Isaac in Genesis 24:3,37.

See Esau and Jacob in Genesis 26:34,35, 28:8,9 [comparing to Jacob in Genesis 27:46, 28:1,6 KJB], 36:2.

See Isaac and Jacob in Genesis 27:46, 28:1,6 KJB.

See Jacob and Hamor in Genesis 34:9,14 KJB.

See Moses in Exodus 34:15,16 KJB.

See in Deuteronomy 17:17 KJB.

See Balaam in Numbers 25:1,2,3 KJB.

See in Judges 3:5,6,7 KJB.

See Samson the Judge in Judges 14:1,2,3 KJB.

See the Chronicles in 1 Chronicles 5:24,25 KJB.

See Ezra in Ezra 9:1,2,11,12 KJB.

See Nehemiah in Nehemiah 9:2, 10:28,29,30, 13:23,25,26,27 KJB.

See Solomon in 1 Kings 11:1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 KJB.

Many “Sons of God” “looked”/“saw” [“saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair” and “took them wives of all which they chose” [Genesis 6:2 KJB]] and "beheld" [Just as did Samson, “she pleaseth me well”, or King David who went after Bathsheba, the wife of Uriah the Hittite and his friend, through covetousness had Uriah killed in action “from the roof he saw a woman washing herself; and the woman [was] very beautiful to look upon” [2 Samuel 11:2, 12:9 KJB] and Solomon who “multiplied wives” and “loved many strange women” and all Israel who took of the “daughters of the land”], and then “lusted and coveted” and so were ensnared being “Vex[ed], Beguiled, To Commit Trespass Against The LORD, Commit Fornication, Eat things sacrificed unto Idols, worshipped idols” [Numbers 25:18, 31:16; Revelation 2:14 KJB]:

Jude 1:11 KJB - Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

See also the words of Jesus, as it was in the days of Noah and Lot:

Job 21:7,14, 22:15,16,17; Matthew 24:37,38; Luke 17:26,27; 2 Peter 2:5, 3:3,6.

In the greater overall picture there is a like message and call for the “people of God” also today to “come out” of “Spiritual Babylon” [just as God had done with physical Babylon; Jeremiah 51:9; Isaiah 52:11 KJB] that “great Whore” [Revelation 17:1, 19:2 KJB]:

See 2 Corinthians 6:14,15,16,17,18; Revelation 18:4 KJB.

ReChoired · Nov 18, 2020

theefaith said:
(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?) ...

Unfortunately your reply is nothing but Romanist 'hocus pocus', watch:

Roman Catholicism teaches that Mary is this Ark, and that the old 'ark' that Moses built by command of God (Exodus 25:10; Deuteronomy 10:1) was a “shadow” of the future Mary. This is a serious and gross distortion of what the texts say. Moses was instructed of God, to make an “ark” after “the pattern” of the Real Ark that already existed in the Heavens.

Point 1. There is a true Sanctuary/Temple in Heaven - Hebrews 8:2; Revelation 11:19, 13:6

Point 2. In that True Temple in Heaven, is the True original Ark of the Everlasting Covenant - Revelation 11:19

Point 3. The copy that Moses and others made, like David/Solomon, was patterned after the Heavenly original - Exodus 25:8-9,40; Numbers 8:4; 1 Chronicles 28:12,18-19; Hebrews 8:5

Point 4. In that original Heavenly Ark is seen "his (God's everlasting) testament" - Revelation 11:19; which is God's Law (His eternal Ten Commandments) - Genesis 17:7; Psalms 105:7-10; etc.

Point 5. Jesus Christ is our Great High Priest anointed at Pentecost (Psalms 133:1-3; Revelation 5:6; Acts 2:1-4,33; Hebrews 7:26, etc.) to minister first in the Holy Place (Hebrews 9:12; Revelation 1:10-20, 2:1, 3:1, 4:1-11 (location, first veil/door), 5:1-4, 6:1-12, 8:2-4, etc.), and later, according to the time prophecy of Daniel (Daniel 8:13,-14,26, etc) to move into the Most Holy Place (Revelation 3:7-8, second veil/door; Daniel 7:9-10,13-14,22(b.) (the Ancient of days came)).

Point 6. When Jesus moved into the Most Holy Place in the great Heavenly Sanctuary, this began the Anti-typical day of atonement (Leviticus 16:1-34, 23:26-32; Daniel 8:13-14,26; Revelation 9:13-15, 10:6, 12:6-7; etc). This did not take place at the Cross, in Jesus' burial, in His resurrection, in His ascension, at Pentecost, but far long after, in its proper "season" (Ecclesiastes 3:1).

Point 7. This Heavenly ministration of Jesus Christ is being usurped and obscured (smoke) on earth, by the AntiChrist system, who places itself between God and man, as another mediator; (2 Thessalonians 2:4; Daniel 8:11,12,13, 11:31,36, 11:45, 12:11, etc), by distracting people from looking up by faith unto Christ alone there in what He is doing, with another system on earth (Revelation 12:13, 13:4).

ReChoired · Nov 18, 2020

theefaith said:
(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?) ...

[1]

OT - The Word was written by God on Tablets of Stone (Ex. 25:10) placed inside the Ark (Deut. 10:1)
NT - The Word of God became Flesh (John 1) conceived inside Mary (Luke 2:38) Mary carried the Word of God.

This theology of Roman Catholicism's confusion (which contains partial truth, being wrested and twisted to their own destruction) does at least three things:

[1] It would teach that the Word of God was only to dwell in 'Mary', and only for 9 months, after which the Word of God was no longer in the womb of Mary, having come through the veil/curtain of flesh of the woman (Galatians 4:4; see flesh/veil in Hebrews 10:20). Thus the 'ark' (Mary as they say) was to no longer hold the 'Word of God', according to this bizarre theology, and the 'ark' was thus empty forever afterward. Jesus said:

John 3:6 KJB - That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Hebrews 10:5 KJB - Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Galatians 4:4 KJB - But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

John 6:63 KJB - It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

This theology of Rome, confuses the “flesh” and the “spirit”. Jesus is called the “Word of God” (John 1:1).

[2] It usurps the place of Jesus Christ as the True Temple (John 2:19; Exodus 25:8; Revelation 21:22), and His heart the True Ark, for in His heart is always the living eternal Law of his Father:

Psalms 40:7 KJB - Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,

Psalms 40:8 KJB - I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

[3] It denies that all mankind was to be a sanctuary for the indwelling of the living God, by the Holy Ghost, all were to be indwelt by the Word of God:

Exodus 25:8 KJB - And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.

Exodus 25:9 KJB - According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.

The heart of mankind, was to be the holding place of God's Law, and of His character:

Colossians 1:27 KJB - To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Psalms 40:8 KJB - I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

["... Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." [Matthew 6:10 KJB] and "I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart." [Psalms 40:8 KJB]]

Thus the “ark” represents the Heart of God Himself, for out of the abundance of the Heart, the mouth of God speaketh (Matthew 12:34; Luke 6:45), and cometh forth the Word of God, Jesus - the Love of the Father's heart to us-ward.

Just as the written Law of God on stone tables and placed in the Ark, so too, that same written Law of God, is to be written upon every repentant Heart, by the Holy Ghost:

Jeremiah 31:31 KJB - Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jeremiah 31:32 KJB - Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Jeremiah 31:33 KJB - But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jeremiah 31:34 KJB - And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Ezekiel 36:25 KJB - Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

Ezekiel 36:26 KJB - A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Ezekiel 36:27 KJB - And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Ezekiel 36:28 KJB - And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Ezekiel 36:29 KJB - I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.

Ezekiel 37:26 KJB - Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.

Ezekiel 37:27 KJB - My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Ezekiel 37:28 KJB - And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

Hebrews 8:8 KJB - For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Hebrews 8:9 KJB - Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Hebrews 8:10 KJB - For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Hebrews 8:11 KJB - And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Hebrews 8:12 KJB - For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Hebrews 8:13 KJB - In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 10:15 KJB - Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

Hebrews 10:16 KJB -This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

2 Corinthians 3:2 KJB - Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:

2 Corinthians 3:3 KJB - Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Therefore, is Mary unique in this, in being indwelt by Jesus? No, she was but one of many billions, from the beginning:

Genesis 3:15 KJB - And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Genesis 4:26 KJB - And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.

The same “seed” (Genesis 3:15; Galatians 3:16; Revelation 12:17) was to be planted in all receptive hearts, so that:

Ephesians 4:15 KJB - But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

ReChoired · Nov 18, 2020

theefaith said:
(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?) ...

Just as Jesus is the Head, yet He also has a "body" (Romans 11:16, 12:4-5; 1 Corinthians 10:17, 12:12-14,18,20,26-27; Ephesians 5:30; Colossians 1:18; Hebrews 10:5, etc) the True Temple. So too also, in the counterfeit, Satan (Root) and his body (branches) (Malachi 4:1), the counterfeit Temple.

Look:

2 Thessalonians 2:4 - Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The "temple of God"?

1 Corinthians 3:9 - "... ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building."

1 Corinthians 3:16 - Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1 Corinthians 3:17 - If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

1 Corinthians 6:19 - What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

2 Corinthians 6:6 - And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Ephesians 2:21 - In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

1 Peter 2:5 - "Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house ..."

Revelation 3:12 - Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my new name.

Jesus own "Body" is the Temple:

John 2:21 - But he spake of the temple of his body.

Yet there is more to it:

Revelation 11:19 - "And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament..."

See also the True Heavenly Temple - Exodus 25:40, 26:30, 27:8; Hebrews 8:5, 9:23; Revelation 11:19 and so on.

Roman Catholicism's theology therefore seeks to rob all believers, and to claim it all for a single apparitional being, whom they call 'Mary'.

Christ Jesus is to be born again in each one who believes, and to give birth to His character, that it may grow, and fully represent Him:

1 Peter 1:23 KJB - Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Philippians 1:6 KJB - Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Romans 8:9 KJB - But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Romans 8:10 KJB - And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Romans 8:11 KJB - But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

2 Corinthians 13:5 KJB - Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Galatians 4:19 KJB - My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Philippians 2:5 KJB - Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Colossians 1:27 KJB - To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Hebrews 13:21 KJB - Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Christ in you, the body of the church, the bride, the candlesticks:

Revelation 1:10 KJB - I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

Revelation 1:11 KJB - Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

Revelation 1:12 KJB - And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

Revelation 1:13 KJB - And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

Revelation 1:14 KJB - His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

Revelation 1:15 KJB - And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

Revelation 1:16 KJB - And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

Revelation 1:17 KJB - And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

Revelation 1:18 KJB - I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Revelation 1:19 KJB - Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

Revelation 1:20 KJB - The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Was Mary a vessel for the Lord? Yes, as we are all to be:

We are to be those holy vessels [Daniel 1:2,4 KJB], bearing the Glory of God before the Gentiles, filled with His righteousness, and not with corrupt wine [Revelation 17:4 KJB]:

Acts 9:15 KJB - But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

Romans 9:23 KJB - And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

1 Thessalonains 4:4 KJB - That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;

2 Timothy 2:19 KJB - Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

2 Timothy 2:20 KJB - But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

2 Timothy 2:21 KJB - If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

2 Timothy 2:22 KJB - Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

Isaiah 66:19 KJB - And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.

Isaiah 66:20 KJB - And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.

ReChoired · Nov 18, 2020

theefaith said:
(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?) ...

[2]

OT - "Who am I that the Ark of my Lord should come to me?" (2 Sam. 6:9)
NT - "Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Luke 1:43)

This is a bit of deception, in that there is not a single translation of the scripture in English, Roman Catholic, Protestant or other, that reads “Who am I that the Ark of my Lord should come to me?” in 2 Samuel 6:9 – and one may see many translations into English, here - 2 Samuel 6:9 - Bible Gateway

Two Bibles say:

2 Samuel 6:9 KJB - And David was afraid of the LORD that day, and said, How shall the ark of the LORD come to me?

The parallel text is in:

1 Chronicles 13:12 KJB - And David was afraid of God that day, saying, How shall I bring the ark of God home to me?

2 Samuel 6:9 Douay Rheims - And David was afraid of the Lord that day, saying: How shall the ark of the Lord come to me?

The parallel text is in:

1 Chronicles 13:12 Douay Rheims - And he feared God at that time, saying: How can I bring in the ark of God to me?

While Luke 1:43 reads:

Luke 1:43 KJB - And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Luke 1:43 Douay Rheims - And whence is this to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

In 2 Samuel 6:9, King David, the type of Christ, asks the question, “How shall the ark of the LORD come to me?” and in 1 Chronicles 13:12 says, “How shall I bring the ark of God home to me?”, as JEHOVAH was displeased with how the ark was travelling on a shaking cart led of oxen, and was touched by Uzzah (2 Samuel 6:3-8; 1 Chronicles 13:7-11), rather than being upon the poles carried by the priests as written in the Law of God (Numbers 4:15, 7:9). David desired to know how to bring the Ark of God home.

In 2 Samuel 6:5-6 the ark is in Baalah (Baale of Judah; 2 Samuel 6:2), that is Kirjathjearim, in the house of Abinadab (1 Chronicles 13:7), in Gibeah (2 Samuel 6:3-4) and is carried as far unto the threshingfloor of Chidon (1 Chronicles 13:9), aka Nachon's threshingfloor (2 Samuel 6:6), afterward called Perezuzza (1 Chronicles 13:11); Perezuzzah (2 Samuel 6:8) and from there taken to the house of Obededom the Gittite (2 Samuel 6:10-13; 1 Chronicles 13:13-14), and after 3 months (2 Samuel 6:11; 1 Chronicles 13:14) it was gathered by the priests and David and taken to the City of David (2 Samuel 6:12-23; 1 Corinthians 15:1-29).

In Luke 1:43, Mary travels (from Nazareth in Galilee; Luke 1:26-27,39) to see her cousin, Elisabeth, who lived in a city of Juda (Luke 1:39); whereas in 2 Samuel 6 and 1 Chronicles 13, the ark travels from Kirjathjearim (Baalah (Baale of Judah; 2 Samuel 6:2), that is Kirjathjearim, in the house of Abinadab (1 Chronicles 13:7)) in Juda back to the City of David.

Christ Jesus is the True Temple (John 2:19; Exodus 25:8; Revelation 21:22)) and True Ark (Psalms 40:8-9), and the True David (Psalms 89:3; Jeremiah 30:9; Ezekiel 34:23-24, 37:24-25; Hosea 3:5).

If anything in such 'a type', Mary would then represent the lowly delivery vehicle, a new (virgin) cart drawn by oxen (a bumpy ride in travelling), as found in 2 Samuel 6:2-3,6; 1 Chronicles 13:7,9, but I doubt Roman Catholicism's theology would desire to acknowledge the truth of that or that the direction of travel is opposite (Baalah (Baale of Judah), Kirjathjearim unto the city of David) and (Nazareth in Galilee to a hill country, city of Juda).

Is Mary of the scripture, the only one to carry Christ within? No, for all believers are to experience the New Birth, Christ Jesus being born in them, for the mind is the earth and receptive soil, which is to receive the Seed of Light, in the midst of waters, in darkness; Let there be Light ...:

Matthew12:48 KJB - But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

Matthew12:49 KJB - And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

Matthew12:50 KJB - For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Mark 3:33 KJB - And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?

Mark 3:34 KJB - And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

Mark 3:35 KJB - For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

BreadOfLife · Nov 18, 2020

ReChoired said:
"theotokos", really?

Let us take a look at the scriptural (KJB) “Mary” [Matthew 1:16,18,20, 2:11, 13:55; Mark 6:3; Luke 1:27,30,34,38,39,41,46,56, 2:5,16,19,34; Acts 1:14], “the mother of Jesus” [John 2:1,3; Acts 1:14; see also “his mother” - Matthew 1:18, 2:11; Luke 2:34,43; John 19:25; and “mother” - also John 6:42] who was “espoused to Joseph”.

We are going to look at the scriptures in what they themselves have to say about her and what they do not say about her, for there is at this time a persistent theology which pervades much of the Christian world which claims to have support [from the Bible] for an idea that has been defined and termed as: “theotokos” [literally “God-Bearer”, or “one who gives birth to God” and/or also loosely given as “Mother of God”; being a “title”].

Let us look very closely at the scriptures to see if this “title” is accurate or is instead dangerous.

The first question that should be asked is this, “Is the “title” “theotokos” ever itself given anywhere at all in any of the Scriptures by anyone?” Search as we will, the answer comes back to us as a plain, “No.” Though not convincing in and of itself, let us remember this “silence” and come back to this point later.

The next question that should be asked is this, “Is Mary ever called by the appellation or designated with the title of “Mother of God” [“God” being the English for the Greek [Tr.] word “Theos”] anywhere at all in any of the Scriptures by anyone?” Search as we will, the answer comes back as before to us as a plain, “No.” Again not convincing in and of itself, but let us again remember also this “silence” and come back to this point later.

Let us now consider a few statements by the Roman Catholic theological position and teaching on this subject of the “theotokos”, for it is said that:

"… Elizabeth is the first to call Mary by her most honourable title "Mother of God …" [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; “V”; "The Blessed Virgin Mary"; subsection “The Visitation”] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: The Blessed Virgin Mary

It is taught by outward (catechumen) Catholicism that she is not the 'mother of divinity' (well and good), yet there is more said inwardly by the dogma, with hints all over the place at something more, and even openly stated with more:

"… As Mary was truly the mother of Jesus, and as Jesus was truly God from the first moment of His conception, Mary is truly the mother of God. … Theotokos …" [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; “V”; "The Blessed Virgin Mary"; subsection “Mary's divine motherhood”] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: The Blessed Virgin Mary

Let us look at the first quote again and ask yet another question. “Did Elizabeth [the cousin of Mary] ever call Mary by the “title” “Mother of God” in any part of the Scriptures?” Search as we will yet again, and the answer yet comes back to us as a plain, “No.”

Where then does the Roman Catholic theological position obtain the slightest ground from Scripture to say that Elizabeth says such?

Luke 1:43 is quoted, so we had better be careful to look at it:

Luke 1:43:

Luk 1:43 (KJB) And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Luk 1:43 (KJB w/ Strong's) AndG2532 whenceG4159 is thisG5124 to me,G3427 thatG2443 theG3588 motherG3384 of myG3450 LordG2962 should comeG2064 toG4314 me?G3165

Luk 1:43 (GNT TR) και ποθεν μοι τουτο ινα ελθη η μητηρ του κυριου μου προς με

Luk 1:43 (GNT TR w/ Strong's & Robinsons Codes) καιG2532 CONJ ποθενG4159 ADV-I μοιG1473 P-1DS τουτοG3778 D-NSN ιναG2443 CONJ ελθηG2064 V-2AAS-3S ηG3588 T-NSF μητηρG3384 N-NSF τουG3588 T-GSM κυριουG2962 N-GSM μουG1473 P-1GS προςG4314 PREP μεG1473 P-1AS

Luke 1:43 (Stephen's 1550 TR) kai poqen moi touto ina elqh h mhthr tou kuriou mou proV me

Luke 1:43 (Byzantine Majority TR) - kai poqen moi touto ina elqh h mhthr tou kuriou mou proV me

Luke 1:43 (Alexandrian Greek) - kai poqen moi touto ina elqh h mhthr tou kuriou mou proV eme

Luk 1:43 (Jerome's Latin Vulgate) et unde hoc mihi ut veniat mater Domini mei ad me

Luk 1:43 (Clementine Vulgate) Et unde hoc mihi ut veniat mater Domini mei ad me?

Luk 1:43 (Douay Rheims Jesuit) And whence is this to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

There is not a single MSS/Codice/Papyri, etc, let alone a translation in English that reads "mother of God" or "mhthr tou theos" in Luke 1:43:

Luke 1:43 - Bible Gateway

Does the text read from the English or Tr. Greek that Mary was designated with the “title” “Mother of God” by Elizabeth? [Remember, we are looking for the words “mhthr tou theou mou” [Theos/God].]

The text obviously does not read the way it is claimed [intimated] that it does, for it plainly reads, “...mhthr tou kuriou mou...” [“...mother of my Lord...”]. This passage is supposed to be the strongest support pillar upholding the “theotokos” theological position, yet the pillar is non-existent, as is the word “theou”.

As we have seen by the Scriptures, Mary is called the “mother of Jesus” [John 2:1,3; Acts 1:14] but never once designated with the “title” “mother of God”.

It is not possible for Mary to be the "mother of God", since God exists eternally before her, and had no beginning, and is "without mother" (Hebrews 7:3, but even here 'catholics' will attempt something else, though they err in both) and is “...from everlasting...” [Micah 5:2;p etc] even “...to everlasting...” [Psalms 90:2;p etc] and also eternally existing with the “Father” [ref: John 1:1, 17:5].

To give the title “mother of God” to Mary is unbiblical, and she herself would have never have wanted it, being the humble handmaiden and servant of God. Many women, who believed in scripture, were blessed (Genesis 1:22, etc).

This is a TEXTBOOK example of why the Council of Ephesus in 431 declared Mary as "Theotokos".
It was NOT an attempt to glorify HER - but to glorify Christ. and to correct the Nestorian Heresy.

This is why the doctrine of the Hypostatic Union was defined at the very SAME Council. Mary's Title of Theotokos was really an after effect of the Hypostatic Union, which declared that Jesus is FULLY Man and FULLY God.

Ergo, Mary conceived in her womb and carried the MAN GOD (Theanthropos). Mary didn't conceive and give birth to a "nature" - ANY MORE than YOUR mother gave birth to a meat puppet. Just as YOU are a Body/soul/spirit being - so is Jesus. The difference is that you're NOT divine.

YOUR attempt to divide Jesus's two indivisible natures is simply a vain attempt at resurrecting an old heresy . . .

ReChoired · Nov 18, 2020

theefaith said:
(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?) ...

[3]

OT - The When the Ark carrying the Word of God returned “David was leaping and dancing before the Lord” (2 Sam. 6:14)
NT - When Mary came into Elizabeth's presence carrying the word of God, the baby “leaped for joy” in Elizabeth's womb (Luke 2:38)

In 2 Samuel 6:14, we see David, the type of Christ, “dance” before the LORD:

2 Samuel 6:14 KJB - And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.

2 Samuel 6:14 Douay Rheims - And David danced with all his might before the Lord: and David was girded with a linen ephod.

The word “danced” (2 Samuel 6:14) is translated from H3769, “מכרכר”, “m'khar'Kër”, which means to “whirl”, “dance”, and in this instance is not that which is the common and modern dissipation of revelry and outworking of rebellion, but instead is in reverence, joy and in keeping with the time of sacred and holy music, in the expression of thanksgiving.

There is no translation of 2 Samuel 6:14, into English, that reads “leaping and dancing”. However, 2 Samuel 6:16, does so read:

2 Samuel 6:16 KJB - And as the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart.

The parallel text is in:

1 Chronicles 15:29 KJB - And it came to pass, as the ark of the covenant of the LORD came to the city of David, that Michal the daughter of Saul looking out at a window saw king David dancing and playing: and she despised him in her heart.

2 Samuel 6:16 Douay Rheims - And when the ark of the Lord was come into the city of David, Michol the daughter of Saul, looking out through a window, saw king David leaping and dancing before the Lord: and she despised him in her heart.

The parallel text is in:

1 Chronicles 15:29 Douay Rheims - And when the ark of the covenant of the Lord was come to the city of David, Michol the daughter of Saul looking out at a window, saw king David dancing and playing, and she despised him in her heart.

The word “leaping” (2 Samuel 6:16) is translated from H6339, “מפזז”, “m'faZëz”, which means “to solidify (as if by refining gold (1 Kings 10:18), see H6338), to leap, or to be made strong (see Genesis 49:24)”.

The word “dancing” (1 Chronicles 15:29) is translated from H7540, “מרקד”, “m'raQëd”, which means to “stamp, spring (leap about), skip, jump”:

Total KJB Occurrences: 9

dance, 3
Job 21:11; Ecclesiastes 3:4; Isaiah 13:21
skipped, 2
Psalms 114:4,6
dancing, 1
1 Chronicles 15:29
jumping, 1
Nahum 3:2
leap, 1
Joel 2:5
skip, 1
Psalms 29:5-6 (2)

The word “playing” (1 Chronicles 15:29) is translated from H7832, “ומשׂחק”, “ûm'sachëq”, which means to “play (mock), laugh, sport, make merry, rejoice”:

Total KJB Occurrences: 38

laugh, 8
Job 5:22 (2); Psalms 2:4, 37:13, 52:6, 59:8; Proverbs 1:26, 29:9; Ecclesiastes 3:4
play, 5
2 Samuel 2:14, 6:21; Job 40:20, 41:5; Psalms 104:26
laughed, 3
2 Chronicles 30:10; Job 12:4, 29:24
played, 3
1 Samuel 18:7; 2 Samuel 6:5; 1 Chronicles 13:8
sport, 3
Judges 16:25,27; Proverbs 26:19
merry, 2
Jeremiah 30:19 (2), 31:4
playing, 2
1 Chronicles 15:29; Zechariah 8:5
rejoicing, 2
Proverbs 8:30-31 (2)
scorneth, 2
Job 39:7,18
deride, 1
Habakkuk 1:10
derision, 1
Job 30:1
laugheth, 1
Job 41:29
mock, 1
Lamenatations 1:7
mocked, 1
Job 12:4
mockers, 1
Jeremiah 15:17
mocketh, 1
Job 39:22
rejoice, 1
Proverbs 31:25

The reference to Luke 2:38 is in error, and for the reference should be to Luke 1:41,44:

Luke 1:41 KJB - And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

Luke 1:44 KJB - For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

Luke 1:41 Douay Rheims - And it came to pass that when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the infant leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost.

Luke 1:44 Douay Rheims - For behold as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy.

The word “leaped” (Luke 1:41,44) is translated from G4640, “εσκιρτησεν”, “eskirtesen”, which means to “leap (for joy, rejoicing, see Luke 6:23)”.

In 2 Samuel 6:14,16; 1 Chronicles 15:29, we see that it is King David, dressed in the linen (as a common priest would wear, making himself of no estate before the Ark and the LORD, that God alone may be exalted), who leaps before God. David, the servant of the LORD, is a type of Christ (Psalms 89:3; Jeremiah 30:9; Ezekiel 34:23-24, 37:24-25; Hosea 3:5), who is rejoicing before God, after the ark of God had stayed “three months” (2 Samuel 6:11; 1 Chronicles 13:14) in the house of Obededom, and while upon its returning to the City of David.

In Luke 1:41,44, we see the babe, John the Baptist, the messenger that would go before announcing Jesus' coming (Malachi 3:1; Matthew 11:10-11; Mark 1:2-3; Luke 1:76, 7:26-28; John 1:6-7; Isaiah 40:3-5; Matthew 3:1-3, 17:10-13; Luke 1:16-17, 3:3-6; John 1:15-23,33-34, 3:28-30; Acts 13:24-25, 19:4), who was the son of Zacharias the priest of the course of Abia (1 Chronicles 24:19) and Elisabeth of the daughters of Aaron (Luke 1:5), who leaps in the womb of Elisabeth at the sound of the greeting of Mary her cousin at the beginning of the timeframe of “about three months” (not exactly three months):

Luke 1:56 KJB - And Mary abode with her about three months, and returned to her own house.

Luke 1:56 Douay Rheims - And Mary abode with her about three months. And she returned to her own house.

In any case, when we consider King David as a servant, and John the Baptist as a servant, leaping before the Ark, it is not Mary that is the Ark, but Jesus Christ Himself, who carries the Law of God in His own heart (Psalms 40:8), and who Himself is JEHOVAH Immanuel, Jesus JEHOVAH. What the devil does, even when a type may seem to be present, attempts to shift the focus from the True God, even Jesus Christ (God manifest in the flesh, 1 Timothy 3:16), to mere frail human beings, such as the king David or Mary.

In the scenario of king David, we see that in the taking off the royal apparel, and the dressing in the linen (2 Samuel 6:14; 1 Chronicles 15:27), that the glory was to go to God alone, and so likewise with Jesus, who laid aside His royal apparel, and glory of Heaven (John 17:5; Philippians 2:5-11), and glorified the Father (John 17:6), JEHOVAH the Ancient of Days (Daniel 7:9,13,22), for Jesus in no manner sought His own glory (John 8:50).

ReChoired · Nov 18, 2020

theefaith said:
(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?) ...

So likewise, in the scenario with Mary and Elisabeth, who exalt the LORD, not Mary:

Luke 1:46 KJB - And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
Luke 1:47 KJB - And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
Luke 1:48 KJB - For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
Luke 1:49 KJB - For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.
Luke 1:50 KJB - And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.
Luke 1:51 KJB - He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
Luke 1:52 KJB - He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree.
Luke 1:53 KJB - He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.
Luke 1:54 KJB - He hath holpen his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;
Luke 1:55 KJB - As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

Mary is indeed, “blessed” (Luke 1:42,45,48), but so were many woman of scripture who believed and were obedient (Genesis 1:28, 5:2, 30:13; Judges 5:24; 1 Samuel 2:20, 25:32-33, see also the blessed “church in the wilderness”, the great Woman of God, Deuteronomy 28:3,4,5,6; Psalms 89:15, 106:3, 112:1, 119:1,2, 128:1; Proverbs 8:34, 31:28; Isaiah 32:30; Jeremiah 17:7; Malachi 3:12; Romans 4:7-8; Galatians 3:9, etc), for instance, see:

Genesis 30:13 KJB - And Leah said, Happy am I, for the daughters will call me blessed: and she called his name Asher.

Judges 5:24 KJB - Blessed above women shall Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite be, blessed shall she be above women in the tent.

1 Samuel 2:20 KJB - And Eli blessed Elkanah and his wife, and said, The LORD give thee seed of this woman for the loan which is lent to the LORD. And they went unto their own home.

1 Samuel 25:32 KJB - And David said to Abigail, Blessed be the LORD God of Israel, which sent thee this day to meet me:

1 Samuel 25:33 KJB - And blessed be thy advice, and blessed be thou, which hast kept me this day from coming to shed blood, and from avenging myself with mine own hand.

Proverbs 31:28 KJB - Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her.

Song of Solomon 6:9 KJB - My dove, my undefiled is but one; she is the only one of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her.

Likewise anyone obedient to God, and receptive to His grace:

Psalms 1:1 KJB - Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

Psalms 32:1 KJB - A Psalm of David, Maschil. Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

Psalms 118:26 KJB - Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.

Psalms 128:1 KJB - A Song of degrees. Blessed is every one that feareth the LORD; that walketh in his ways.

Isaiah 56:2 KJB - Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

Jeremiah 17:7 KJB - Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.

Matthew 5:3 KJB - Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:4 KJB - Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

Matthew 5:5 KJB - Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

Matthew 5:6 KJB - Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Matthew 5:7 KJB - Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

Matthew 5:8 KJB - Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Matthew 5:9 KJB - Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Matthew 5:10 KJB - Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:11 KJB - Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

Matthew 11:6 KJB - And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

Matthew 13:16 KJB - But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

Matthew 24:46 KJB - Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

Matthew 25:34 KJB - Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Luke 6:20 KJB - And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.

Luke 6:21 KJB - Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.

Luke 6:22 KJB - Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

Luke 7:23 KJB - And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

John 20:29 KJB - Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Revelation 22:7 KJB - Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

So that none would mistake the blessing that Mary had, Jesus said:

Luke 11:27 KJB - And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.

Luke 11:28 KJB - But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

Luke 23:39 KJB - For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.

Moreover, looking again at the texts of 2 Samuel 6:11-12 and 1 Chronicles 13:14, we see that the “house of Obededom” was blessed when the Ark was with them:

2 Samuel 6:11 KJB - And the ark of the LORD continued in the house of Obededom the Gittite three months: and the LORD blessed Obededom, and all his household.

2 Samuel 6:12 KJB - And it was told king David, saying, The LORD hath blessed the house of Obededom, and all that pertaineth unto him, because of the ark of God. So David went and brought up the ark of God from the house of Obededom into the city of David with gladness.

1 Chronicles 13:14 KJB - And the ark of God remained with the family of Obededom in his house three months. And the LORD blessed the house of Obededom, and all that he had.

Thus, it is the presence of Jesus that is the blessing to those whom He dwells with/in, not that Mary of herself or we are anything. For we are all dust and ashes (Genesis 18:27, 3:19). Mary, of the scriptures, is just the empty house/vessel, as we all are, except Christ Jesus abide within these earthy tabernacles:

1 Corinthians 6:19 KJB - What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

2 Corinthians 5:1 KJB - For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 Corinthians 5:2 KJB - For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

2 Corinthians 5:3 KJB - If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

2 Corinthians 5:4 KJB - For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

2 Corinthians 5:5 KJB - Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 5:6 KJB - Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

2 Peter 1:13 KJB - Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;

2 Peter 1:14 KJB - Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

Interestingly there is a “three months” period mentioned with Moses (a type of Christ), after he was born:

Acts 7:20 KJB - In which time Moses was born, and was exceeding fair, and nourished up in his father's house three months:

Hebrews 11:23 KJB - By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.

Also consider the "three months" (Acts 19:8, 28:11) in the life of Paul.

ReChoired · Nov 18, 2020

theefaith said:
(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?) ...

[4]

OT - The Ark carrying the Word of God is brought to the house of Obed-Edom for 3 months, where it was a blessing. (2 Sam. 6:11)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) carrying the Word of God goes to Elizabeth's house for 3 months, where she is a blessing (Luke 1:56)

Indeed the Ark (the symbol of the presence of God) was a blessing to the house of Obededom for “three months” (2 Samuel 6:11; 1 Chronicles 13:14). The Ark represents Christ Jesus, for in His Heart is the living Law of His Father (Psalms 40:8; John 6:57; Matthew 12:34; Luke 6:45), for His is the pure golden character, all glorious without and within, perfectly reflecting the character of the Father, as the “express image” (Hebrews 1:3). He, the presence of God, is the one whom the Cherub (as Gabriel) cover (Luke 22:43) and are with Him at the tomb (Mark 16:5; Luke 24:4; John 20:12) at His ascension (Acts 1:10,24), and with Him meeting Abraham (Genesis 17-19) and Daniel (7-12) and John (Revelation 1-22).

Let us take notice that though Mary is “blessed” (Luke 1:42,45,48), the text does not say in Luke 1:56 that Mary herself was the blessing. The text simply says:

Luke 1:56 KJB - And Mary abode with her about three months, and returned to her own house.

Luke 1:56 Douay Rheims - And Mary abode with her about three months. And she returned to her own house.

Jesus is the blessing (to Mary, and all else), and the cause for all joy. He is salvation. His name praise. For He is the Everlasting Gospel, the good news (Word; John 1:1-3,11) sent from the heart/bosom of the Father.

Also the texts in 2 Samuel 6:11; 1 Chronicles 13:14 say “three months”, whereas the text in Luke 1:56, says “about three months” (not exactly three months, either under or over).

Interestingly there is a “three months” period mentioned with Moses (a type of Christ), after he was born:

Acts 7:20 KJB - In which time Moses was born, and was exceeding fair, and nourished up in his father's house three months:

Hebrews 11:23 KJB - By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.

Also consider the "three months" (Acts 19:8, 28:11) in the life of Paul.

Mary in this instance is simply the humble “new cart” (virgin) drawn by oxen (a creature of burden) in which resides the Ark, Jesus Christ, she being just an earthy tabernacle, or dwelling place as the “house of Obededom” was the residing place for the Ark (made after the Heavenly “pattern”) itself for those “three months”, or “about three months”.

Satan always loves to shift the focus from God to man, that he himself may receive worship through them, and to usurp the glory that belongs to JEHOVAH Elohiym alone. Mary is neither the center nor focus, nor the Ark, but Christ Jesus is all those things. Mary. As like we all, is/are nothing without Christ Jesus.

ReChoired · Nov 18, 2020

theefaith said:
(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?) ...

[5]

OT - The Ark is captured (1 Sam 4:11) and brought to a foreign land and later returns (1 Sam 6:13)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) is exiled to a foreign land (Egypt) and later returns (Matt. 2:14)

This “typo” (mistaken typology) again confuses Mary with Jesus (again, usurping His rightly place and glory), for notice, that nowhere in all of the NT is Mary ever taken captive by enemy hands/forces, but Christ Jesus, the True Ark was so taken:

1 Samuel 4:11 KJB - And the ark of God was taken; and the two sons of Eli, Hophni and Phinehas, were slain.

Compare:

Matthew 26:50 KJB - And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus, and took him.

Mark 14:46 KJB - And they laid their hands on him, and took him.

Luke 22:54 KJB - Then took they him, and led him, and brought him into the high priest's house. And Peter followed afar off.

John 18;12 KJB - Then the band and the captain and officers of the Jews took Jesus, and bound him,

John 18:13 KJB - And led him away to Annas first; for he was father in law to Caiaphas, which was the high priest that same year.

The reference to 1 Samuel 6:13 is to the city of “Bethshemesh” which was outside of the foreign lands of the Philistines (1 Samuel 6:12), and within the territory of Judah/Israel (1 Samuel 6:13-14; see Joshua 15:10, 19:22,38, 21:16; Judges 1:33; 2 Kings 14:11, etc). The Philistines later take this city, but not at this present time (2 Chronicles 28:18) as mentioned in 1 Samuel 6:13. Additionally, this is not the city of “Bethshemesh” of Egypt (Jeremiah 43:13).

Did Joseph and Mary & the child (Matthew 2:11; Luke 2:5; Acts 4:27,30) Jesus have to flee into Egypt? Yes, as a fulfillment of a prophecy of Jesus/Israel:

Matthew 2:13 KJB - And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.

Matthew 2:14 KJB - When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:

Matthew 2:15 KJB - And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

Hosea 11:1 KJB - When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

Let all take careful notice, that while at this time, Jesus was already born, and no longer in the womb of Mary, and called in the prophecy “my son” (God's son):

Matthew 2:1 KJB - Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

Jesus had to fulfill these things, for it was His life that was sought to be destroyed (not Mary's), see Revelation 12:4; Matthew 2:3-12,16-18. Moreover, we see the wisemen who had come from the east, seeking the child (Jesus, not Mary), that when they found the child Jesus, fell down and worshipped Him alone, Mary having no part in it:

Matthew 2:11 KJB - And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

This as it should be (Matthew 4:10; Luke 4:8).

In these instances, Jesus the True Ark is indeed in a foreign land (Egypt), but returns. The focus is upon Christ Jesus (the child, the deliverer, the Messiah), not Mary.

Roman Catholicism's theology always seeks to usurp the glory due unto Christ Jesus/God, and seeks to give it to another, their 'Mary' (that apparition of lie-ght, 2 Corinthians 11:14) and others. Their theology claims to be of the Apostolic lineage of Peter, but in reality it is of Judas, a thief, robbing from Christ, pocketing it in their bag/purse, looking for opportunity to betray Him at every corner of the word.

ReChoired · Nov 18, 2020

theefaith said:
(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?) ...

[6]

OT - The On the Day of the Dedication of the Temple which Solomon built, there were 120 priests present (2 Chron. 5:11). The Ark of the covenant was carried into the Temple (2 Chron. 5:7) and fire came down from Heaven to consume the burnt offering (2 Chron. 7:7).
NT - The On the Day of Pentecost, there were 120 disciples of Jesus present in the Upper Room (Acts 1:15). Mary, the Mother of Jesus and the Ark of the NEW Covenant was also present while the Holy Spirit came down as tongues of fire (Acts 2:3).

The parallel to 2 Chronicles 5, is found in 1 Kings 8:1-66.

2 Chronicles 5:11-12 says:

2 Chronicles 5:11 KJB - And it came to pass, when the priests were come out of the holy place: (for all the priests that were present were sanctified, and did not then wait by course:

2 Chronicles 5:12 KJB - Also the Levites which were the singers, all of them of Asaph, of Heman, of Jeduthun, with their sons and their brethren, being arrayed in white linen, having cymbals and psalteries and harps, stood at the east end of the altar, and with them an hundred and twenty priests sounding with trumpets

There were way more than 120 persons here, and way more than 120 priests. There were “one hundred and twenty priests sounding with trumpets”, which were “with” “the Levites which were the singers, all of them of Asaph, Heman, of Jeduthun, with their sons and their brethren, being arrayed in white linen having cymbals and psalteries and harps”, along with all of the “elders of Israel, and all the heads of the tribes, the chiefs of the fathers of the children of Israel” (2 Chronicles 5:2; see also 1 Kings 8:1), and “all the men of Israel” (2 Chronicles 5:3; 1 Kings 8:2). They were sounding as “one” (2 Chronicles 5:13).

The focus in the book of Acts, is not upon Mary, who is mentioned in passing, but upon Christ Jesus, the True Ark above, which was entered into the Holy Place of the Heavenly Sanctuary:

Acts 1:13 KJB - And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.

Acts 1:14 KJB - These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

Acts 1:15 KJB - And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

Acts 1:16 KJB - Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

This is the last mention of “Mary the mother of Jesus” in all of scripture. Her part was done.

Please notice, that the persons gathered together in the “upper room” in the book of Acts, was “about an hundred and twenty”, which means not exactly 120.

The timeframe of Solomon's dedication is also in the different season, being that of the 7th Month, Ethanim, the fall Feasts of Trumpets (1st; Leviticus 23:23-35), Day of Atonement (10th, Leviticus 23:26-32) and Booths/Tabernacles/Ingathering (15th – 21st, 22nd, Leviticus 23:33-44), and speaks of the Latter Rain:

1 Kings 8:2 KJB - And all the men of Israel assembled themselves unto king Solomon at the feast in the month Ethanim, which is the seventh month.

Whereas the day of Pentecost fully come (Acts 2:1) was in the late spring, just before summer (in the 3rd Month of Sivan; Leviticus 23:15-22), and speaks of the Early Rain.

The activity was not because Mary was present (and keep in mind that Jesus, the True Ark, is no longer in her womb, for a long time now, 33 ½ years, since Pentecost fully come was in AD 31), but because Jesus was anointed in Heaven as the Great High Priest of the Heavenly Temple in the Holy Place therein:

Exodus 29:5 KJB - And thou shalt take the garments, and put upon Aaron the coat, and the robe of the ephod, and the ephod, and the breastplate, and gird him with the curious girdle of the ephod:

Exodus 29:6 KJB - And thou shalt put the mitre upon his head, and put the holy crown upon the mitre.

Exodus 29:7 KJB - Then shalt thou take the anointing oil, and pour it upon his head, and anoint him.

Leviticus 8:12 KJB - And he poured of the anointing oil upon Aaron's head, and anointed him, to sanctify him.

Psalms 133:1 KJB - A Song of degrees of David. Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!

Psalms 133:2 KJB - It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron's beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments;

Psalms 133:3 KJB - As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the LORD commanded the blessing, even life for evermore.

Hebrews 5:5 KJB - So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

Hebrews 6:20 KJB - Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Hebrews 7:26 KJB - For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

Hebrews 9:11 KJB - But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Luke 12:49 KJB - And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

John 14:16 KJB - And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 KJB - Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 15:26 KJB - But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:13 KJB - Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Acts 1:4 KJB - And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

Acts 1:8 KJB - But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Revelation 5:6 KJB - And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Acts 2:1 KJB - And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

Acts 2:2 KJB - And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

Acts 2:3 KJB - And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

Acts 2:4 KJB - And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 2:33 KJB - Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

ReChoired · Nov 18, 2020

theefaith said:
(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?) ...

There are “seasons” refreshing, and “showers” (plural) of blessing. The Holy Spirit was poured out on several occasions, at Pentecost (Acts 2), and in the time of the Gentiles with Peter in Acts 10-11, and other believers with Paul in Ephesus in Acts 19, and Mary is nowhere present, but Christ Jesus is by His representative (vicar) on earth, the Holy Ghost:

Acts 10:44 KJB - While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Acts 10:45 KJB - And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10:46 KJB - For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Acts 10:47 KJB - Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Acts 11:15 KJB - And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

Acts 11:16 KJB - Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Acts 11:17 KJB - Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

Acts 11:18 KJB - When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Acts 19:1 KJB - And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

Acts 19:2 KJB - He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Acts 19:3 KJB - And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

Acts 19:4 KJB - Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Acts 19:5 KJB - When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 19:6 KJB - And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Jesus Christ, the True Ark, bodily ascended into Heaven (Luke 24:51; Acts 1:2,9-11; Ephesians 4:8-10; Revelation 12:5 (AD 31); Psalms 24:1-10, 68:18), carried by all the Holy Angels, surrounded by the two Cherub (Acts 1:9-11), into the Holy Place (Revelation 1:10-20; 4:5, 5:6) of the True Tabernacle which the Lord pitched and not man.

Mary did no such thing. She remained on earth and went the way of all men (Genesis 3:19; 1 Kings 2:2; Psalms 104:29; Ecclesiastes 3:20, 12:7), that is, she eventually died, in the faith, in the care of John the Apostle (John 19:26-27) before he was sent to Patmos (Revelation 1:9), was buried and returned to dust and presently sleeps, awaiting the blessed hope, and her resurrection to come (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; Titus 2:13) at the calling of the voice of Jesus (1 Corinthians 15:50-58; John 5:25, 14:1-3, etc).

Is there anyone in Heaven (3rd; 2 Corinthians 12:2,4) now?

Yes:

Revelation 12:12 KJB Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

[1] God the Father - Matthew 6:9, etc

[2] The Son of God the Father (Jesus) - Revelation 1:10-20, 5:5-6 etc

[3] the many hosts of Heaven (that travel from heaven to earth) (also includes 24 Elders (leaders of the unfallen worlds), 4 Living Creatures (representing all the unfallen worlds), all the unfallen worlds and inhabitants, and the unfallen creatures therein)

[4] Enoch - Genesis 5:24; Hebrews 11:5

[5] Moses - Matthew 16:28 - Matthew 17:1-13; Mark 9:1-13; Luke 9:27-37; Romans 5:14; Jude 1:9; 2 Peter 1:1-21

[6] Elijah - 2 Kings 2:1-25; Matthew 16:28 - Matthew 17:1-13; Mark 9:1-13; Luke 9:27-37; 2 Peter 1:1-21

[7] the firstfruits (resurrected at Jesus own resurrection) - Matthew 27:52,53; Isaiah 26:19; Ephesians 4:8; Psalms 68:18; 1 Corinthians 15:20,23

[8] Holy Ghost by omniscience (Psalms 139:1-24; though He is down here on earth, having been sent; Psalms 133:1-3; Revelation 5:6; Acts 2:1-3,33, etc)

all other human beings are on earth, dead (sleeping, righteous and unrighteous, awaiting their respective resurrections) or alive (even if some are sleep walking, thus unrighteous, and the awake living, righteous/saints), and all the fallen angels, including Lucifer are down here on earth.

That's everyone.

DancesWithGnostics · Nov 18, 2020

SDA soul sleep tripe

ReChoired · Nov 18, 2020

BreadOfLife said:
This is a TEXTBOOK example of why the Council of Ephesus in 431 declared Mary as "Theotokos".
It was NOT an attempt to glorify HER - but to glorify Christ. and to correct the Nestorian Heresy.

This is why the doctrine of the Hypostatic Union was defined at the very SAME Council. Mary's Title of Theotokos was really an after effect of the Hypostatic Union, which declared that Jesus is FULLY Man and FULLY God.

Ergo, Mary conceived in her womb and carried the MAN GOD (Theanthropos). Mary didn't conceive and give birth to a "nature" - ANY MORE than YOUR mother gave birth to a meat puppet. Just as YOU are a Body/soul/spirit being - so is Jesus. The difference is that you're NOT divine.

YOUR attempt to divide Jesus's two indivisible natures is simply a vain attempt at resurrecting an old heresy . . .

Not at all. I am simply refusing the apostate councils additional declaration in regards Mary. Mary is not the "mother of God". It is impossible to be so. I said nothing about Jesus not being deity/divine. The Son of God is eternally deity by very nature. Yet that nature (deity) never had a mother, only a Father. The humanity of Jesus, however, only had a human mother, and not a human father.

So, you are resurrecting the old heresy of elevating Mary, while I am not elevating Nestorian anything. I uplift the scripture of Luke 1:43, while you must re-write it to suit your theological position based in the overstepping of some apostate council.

The phrase 'hypostatic union' is simply more claptrap jargon. Here is something plain:

"... Was the human nature of the Son of Mary changed into the divine nature of the Son of God? No; the two natures were mysteriously blended in one person--the man Christ Jesus. In Him dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. When Christ was crucified, it was His human nature that died. Deity did not sink and die; that would have been impossible. Christ, the sinless One, will save every son and daughter of Adam who accepts the salvation proffered them, consenting to become the children of God. The Saviour has purchased the fallen race with His own blood. {5BC 1113.2}

This is a great mystery, a mystery that will not be fully, completely understood in all its greatness until the translation of the redeemed shall take place. Then the power and greatness and efficacy of the gift of God to man will be understood. But the enemy is determined that this gift shall be so mystified that it will become as nothingness (Letter 280, 1904). ..."

ReChoired · Nov 18, 2020

DancesWithGnostics said:
SDA soul sleep tripe

Hmm, what do you think of the following then:

Conditionalist faith of our Fathers:

https://archive.org/download/doctri...itionalist Faith Of Our Fathers Volume 01.pdf

https://archive.org/download/doctri...itionalist Faith Of Our Fathers Volume 02.pdf

As for the non-immortality of the soul, the ECF (easily confused fellows) were 2/3's conditionalists, with the primary believers.in the immortality of the soul coming from Alexandria, Egypt (though not all, and not always) and in Rome.

Video link to Church Fathers who were Annhilationists:

Church Fathers who were Conditionalists | Rethinking Hell

Immortality in the early church. A comprehensive study in e-Book form:

http://bryangrayministries.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Immortality-in-the-Early-Church.doc

Justin Martyr on the Hellenistic error of the immortality of the soul:

DIALOGUE TO TRYPHO CHAPTER V -- THE SOUL IS NOT IN ITS OWN NATURE IMMORTAL.

"'These philosophers [Referring to Greek philosophers who teach that the soul is immortal] know nothing, then, about these things; for they cannot tell what a soul is.'

"'It does not appear so.'

"'Nor ought it to be called immortal; for if it is immortal, it is plainly unbegotten.'

"'It is both unbegotten and immortal, according to some who are styled Platonists.'

Source: Saint Justin Martyr: Dialogue with Trypho (Roberts-Donaldson)

Church fathers who were Annihilationists

Irenaeus - Against Heresies (Book II, Chapter 34)

And therefore he who shall preserve the life bestowed upon him, and give thanks to Him who imparted it, shall receive also length of days for ever and ever. But he who shall reject it, and prove himself ungrateful to his Maker, inasmuch as he has been created, and has not recognised Him who bestowed [the gift upon him], deprives himself of [the privilege of] continuance for ever and ever. And, for this reason, the Lord declared to those who showed themselves ungrateful towards Him: “If you have not been faithful in that which is little, who will give you that which is great?” indicating that those who, in this brief temporal life, have shown themselves ungrateful to Him who bestowed it, shall justly not receive from Him length of days for ever and ever.

Athanasius the Great - On the Incarnation of the Word, Chapter 6

The human race then was wasting, God’s image was being effaced, and His work ruined. Either, then, God must forego His spoken word by which man had incurred ruin; or that which had shared in the being of the Word must sink back again into destruction, in which case God’s design would be defeated.

Athanasius the Great - Discourse 3 Against the Arians, Chapter 29

For it beseemed that the flesh, corruptible as it was, should no longer after its own nature remain mortal, but because of the Word who had put it on, should abide incorruptible. For as He, having come in our body, was conformed to our condition, so we, receiving Him, partake of the immortality that is from Him.

Athanasius the Great - On the Incarnation of the Word, Chapter 4

"We have seen that to change the corruptible to incorruption was proper to none other than the Savior Himself, Who in the beginning made all things out of nothing; that only the Image of the Father could re-create the likeness of the Image in men, that none save our Lord Jesus Christ could give to mortals immortality, and that only the Word Who orders all things and is alone the Father's true and sole-begotten Son could teach men about Him and abolish the worship of idols. But beyond all this, there was a debt owing which must needs be paid; for, as I said before, all men were due to die. Here, then, is the second reason why the Word dwelt among us, namely that having proved His Godhead by His works, He might offer the sacrifice on behalf of all, surrendering His own temple to death in place of all, to settle man's account with death and free him from the primal transgression."

Athanasius the Great - On the Incarnation of the Word, Chapter 4

For transgression of the commandment was turning them back to their natural state, so that just as they have had their being out of nothing, so also, as might be expected, they might look for corruption into nothing in the course of time. 5. For if, out of a former normal state of non-existence, they were called into being by the Presence and loving-kindness of the Word, it followed naturally that when men were bereft of the knowledge of God and were turned back to what was not (for what is evil is not, but what is good is), they should, since they derive their being from God who IS, be everlastingly bereft even of being; in other words, that they should be disintegrated and abide in death and corruption.

Ignasius - The Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians, Chapter 18

For this end did the Lord allow the ointment to be poured upon His head, John 12:7 that He might breathe immortality into His Church. Be not anointed with the bad odour of the doctrine of the prince of this world; let him not lead you away captive from the life which is set before you. And why are we not all prudent, since we have received the knowledge of God, which is Jesus Christ? Why do we foolishly perish, not recognising the gift which the Lord has of a truth sent to us?

Ignasius - The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians

Let us not, therefore, be insensible to His kindness. For were He to reward us according to our works, we should cease to be.

ReChoired · Nov 18, 2020

DancesWithGnostics said:
SDA soul sleep tripe

It was only later with Tertulian and Augustine that really formulated the Latin Church's immortality of the soul, from Greek (Pagan Philosophy)

"...is the doctrine of spirituality. ... Dualism ... Plato ... Platonic Dualism ... " [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; "S", "Soul"] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Soul

"... For positive evidence, however, that the soul will continue after death in the possession of a conscious life, we must appeal to teleology and the consideration of the character of the universe as a whole. ..." [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; "I"; "Immortality"] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Immortality

Platonist influences of Church Fathers like Augustine and Tertullian

"Intellectually, Augustine represents the most influential adaptation of the ancient Platonic tradition with Christian ideas that ever occurred in the Latin Christian world. Augustine received the Platonic past in a far more limited and diluted way than did many of his Greek-speaking contemporaries, but his writings were so widely read and imitated throughout Latin Christendom that his particular synthesis of Christian, Roman, and Platonic traditions defined the terms for much later tradition and debate." - Saint Augustine | Biography, Philosophy, Major Works, & Facts

“The utterance of Plato, the most pure and bright in all philosophy, scattering the clouds of error . . .” - Augustine of Hippo

"Chap. III. - Some Truths Held Even by the Heathen, They Were, However, More Often Wrong Both in Religious Opinions and in Moral Practice. The Heathen Not to Be Followed in Their Ignorance of the Christian Mystery. The Heretics Perversely Prone to Follow Them.

One may no doubt be wise in the things of God, even from one’s natural powers, but only in witness to the truth, not in maintenance of error; (only) when one acts in accordance with, not in opposition to, the divine dispensation. For some things are known even by nature: the immortality of the soul, for instance, is held by many; the knowledge of our God is possessed by all. I may use, therefore, the opinion of a Plato, when he declares, “Every soul is immortal.” I may use also the conscience of a nation, when it attests the God of gods. I may, in like manner, use all the other intelligences of our common nature, when they pronounce God to be a judge. “God sees,” (say they)(say they); and, “I commend you to God.” (compare the

De Test. Anim. ii., and De Anim. xlii.) But when they say, What has undergone death is dead,” and, “Enjoy life whilst you live,” and, “After death all things come to an end, even death itself;” then I must remember both that “the heart of man is ashes,” (Isa_44:20) according to the estimate of God, and that the very “Wisdom of the world is foolishness,” (as the inspired word) pronounces it to be. (1Co_1:20, 1Co_3:19) Then, if even the heretic seek refuge in the depraved thoughts of the vulgar, or the imaginations of the world, I must say to him: Part company with the heathen, O heretic! for although you are all agreed in imagining a God, yet while you do so in the name of Christ, so long as you deem yourself a Christian, you are a different man from a heathen: give him back his own views of things, since he does not himself learn from yours. Why lean upon a blind guide, if you have eyes of your own? Why be clothed by one who is naked, if you have put on Christ? Why use the shield of another, when the apostle gives you armour of your own? It would be better for him to learn from you to acknowledge the resurrection of the flesh, than for you from him to deny it; because if Christians must needs deny it, it would be sufficient if they did so from their own knowledge, without any instruction from the ignorant multitude. He, therefore, will not be a Christian who shall deny this doctrine which is confessed by Christians; denying it, moreover, on grounds which are adopted by a man who is not a Christian. Take away, indeed, from the heretics the wisdom which they share with the heathen, and let them support their inquiries from the Scriptures alone: they will then be unable to keep their ground. For that which commends men’s common sense is its very simplicity, and its participation in the same feelings, and its community of opinions; and it is deemed to be all the more trustworthy, inasmuch as its definitive statements are naked and open, and known to all. Divine reason, on the contrary, lies in the very pith and marrow of things, not on the surface, and very often is at variance with appearances." - Tertullian

(1.) "Even Augustine, the champion of eternal torment said in his day, "There are very many (imo quam plurimi, which can be translated majority) who though not denying the Holy Scriptures, do not believe in endless torments" (Enchiria, ad Laurent. c. 29). St. Basil the Great (c. 329-379) in his De Asceticis wrote: "The mass of men (Christians) say that there is to be an end of punishment to those who are punished." " Appendix Five

(2.) "St. Basil the Great (c. 329-379) in his De Asceticis wrote: "The mass of men (Christians) say that there is to be an end of punishment to those who are punished." "(The Ascetic Works of St. Basil, pp.329-30...Conc. 14 De. fut judic)." Universalism and the Salvation of Satan

"...many people...adhere to the conception of the end of punishment..." (Basil)

(Basil’s short Regulae for his monks, 267 (PG 31,1264,30–1265,47) & by Symeon Metaphrastes, Or. 14 De iudicio 3,551–552. As quoted & cited in Ramelli, The Christian Doctrine of Apokatastasis, p.352).

Give the time indexes with citation (in video) where they are in error please. I will wait.

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