The Lie Of Religion

Foreigner · Jun 25, 2010

Bigape, I see your point and just to clarify, a person who does not give their life to Jesus and make him their savior and Lord yet feeds the hungry, clothes the naked, visits the sick, etc., still will not see the Kingdom of Heaven. Simply put, no "Salvation by good works."

But Jesus lists the lack of those activities as to why they were cast into "eternal punishment." That means that those activities - those 'good works - are expected of Christians by Jesus.

So that 'sheep and goats' scripture means either 1.) All people would have been saved if he would have just done the activities he mentioned (and again, just those activities without being saved will not help you), or 2.) Those activities are expected by all people including Christians, and not performing those 'good works' could cost you your salvation.

Simply acknowledging that Jesus is Lord will not save you. Even Satan will one day bend his knee and acknowledge that. Being a Christian requires more than prayer, fasting, and praising. It requires doing those things Jesus is going to damn those people for not doing.

Let me rephrase that, if you have an good committed relationship/prayer life with Jesus, you will know that He requires these things of you as His child. If you sincerely pray and praise Him, He calls you to do this.

Or, to put it another way, if you are a Christian physically able to perform those tasks Jesus listed, He EXPECTS you to do them to the very upmost of your ability, and if you choose not to...

bigape · Jun 25, 2010

Hello Foreigner

Thank you for your response.

You said.......

“Simply acknowledging that Jesus is Lord will not save you. Even Satan will one day bend his knee and acknowledge that. Being a Christian requires more than prayer, fasting, and praising. It requires doing those things Jesus is going to damn those people for not doing.”

Upon reading this paragraph, I started to respond with....“I never said this”;
(But upon reading it over again....I find that I have.)

Surly it takes more than.....“Simply acknowledging that Jesus is Lord”, to get saved:
(This is easy believism!)

But to say that.....“Being a Christian requires more than prayer, fasting, and praising” is equally untrue.
--------------------------------------------------
As I said in my OP, a true understanding of the Gospel(Biblical Salvation), requires us to completely separate,
(1)“The act of getting saved”: &
(2)“The responsibilities of being saved.”

If in our theology, the responsibilities of being saved, bleed over into the act of getting saved, than we will die and go to hell, because we will have rejected God’s free gift of salvation.

Salvation is a gift and ANYONE who believes that they are helping God save them, by doing any good work, will be rejecting this gift(God's Grace).......
Galatians 5:4-5
V.4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
V.5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
--------------------------------------------------
Another way of looking at it, that might explain it better, is the fact that there are two kinds of righteousness.

(1)There is our righteousness;(feeding the poor, helping the sick, etc).
(2)And then there is God’s righteousness

The righteousness that gets us to heaven).

Our righteousness, will not get us to heaven:
(In fact, it can keep us from going to heaven, because it can cause us to turn our back on "God’s righteousness"

........
Romans 10:3
“For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.”

Selene · Jun 25, 2010

Foreigner said:
Bigape, I see your point and just to clarify, a person who does not give their life to Jesus and make him their savior and Lord yet feeds the hungry, clothes the naked, visits the sick, etc., still will not see the Kingdom of Heaven. Simply put, no "Salvation by good works."

But Jesus lists the lack of those activities as to why they were cast into "eternal punishment." That means that those activities - those 'good works - are expected of Christians by Jesus.

So that 'sheep and goats' scripture means either 1.) All people would have been saved if he would have just done the activities he mentioned (and again, just those activities without being saved will not help you), or 2.) Those activities are expected by all people including Christians, and not performing those 'good works' could cost you your salvation.

Simply acknowledging that Jesus is Lord will not save you. Even Satan will one day bend his knee and acknowledge that. Being a Christian requires more than prayer, fasting, and praising. It requires doing those things Jesus is going to damn those people for not doing.

Let me rephrase that, if you have an good committed relationship/prayer life with Jesus, you will know that He requires these things of you as His child. If you sincerely pray and praise Him, He calls you to do this.

Or, to put it another way, if you are a Christian physically able to perform those tasks Jesus listed, He EXPECTS you to do them to the very upmost of your ability, and if you choose not to...

I agree. As Christians we are EXPECTED to follow God's commands. If we receive the gift of salvation and think to ourselves, "Oh, now that I have the gift of salvation, I am now saved so I don't need to do anything. I don't need to help anyone." That's not how it works. Christ said that those who are saved are those who do His Will (Matthew 7:21). Christ said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Because He is the Way, we need to follow His ways and His examples. His Will is to accept the free gift of salvation from God and be obedient to His commands. So, if God commanded us to help the poor, then we follow it.

Selene · Jun 25, 2010

bigape said:
God’s message throughout the entire Bible is consistent.
People are saved(and have always been saved), by God’s Grace, not by their own works.

We have always believed that people are saved by God's grace and not by their works. When a person received God's grace, these people are not going to be sitting on the sofa being a couch potato, thinking to themselves, "Well, now that I have God's grace, I am saved and will be in Heaven when I die. So, now I don't need to do anything." People who received God's grace will be moved by the Holy Spirit, and they will imitate Christ (I Corinthians 11:1) and follow Christ in His footsteps doing all the things Christ has done (John 14:12). They will become sons and daughters of God. And the sons and daughters of God do not sit around doing nothing.

fivesense · Jun 26, 2010

Selene said:
We have always believed that people are saved by God's grace and not by their works. When a person received God's grace, these people are not going to be sitting on the sofa being a couch potato, thinking to themselves, "Well, now that I have God's grace, I am saved and will be in Heaven when I die. So, now I don't need to do anything." People who received God's grace will be moved by the Holy Spirit, and they will imitate Christ (I Corinthians 11:1) and follow Christ in His footsteps doing all the things Christ has done (John 14:12). They will become sons and daughters of God. And the sons and daughters of God do not sit around doing nothing.

Well spoken Selene. Of a truth, those who are elect and chosen and committed to grace and fellowship do not rest on their laurels. They are hungry, they are thirsty, they want to yell out to the world what they have seen and heard of the Father. It is a life filled with personal contradictions, bad habits, and old methods of living, but the presence of the Living One in them drives them forward from glory to glory, beholding the image they are seeking to be transformed into, Jesus, the Christ of God.

fivesense

brionne · Jun 26, 2010

Selene said:
I agree. As Christians we are EXPECTED to follow God's commands.
His Will is to accept the free gift of salvation from God and be obedient to His commands. So, if God commanded us to help the poor, then we follow it.

thats a nice point

we should do the things he asks but it would be wrong of us to view those things only as 'works' and only do them because God told us to do them...we should do them as a matter of faith and out of love because God wants us to be like him.

sniper762 · Jun 27, 2010

Pegg, you say " I agree. As Christians we are EXPECTED to follow God's commands".

what happens if we FAIL to meet god's commandments?

Selene · Jun 27, 2010

sniper762 said:
Pegg, you say " I agree. As Christians we are EXPECTED to follow God's commands".

what happens if we FAIL to meet god's commandments?

We follow His commands because we love Him. But being human, we will fail to meet His commands because we can't do it alone. We need His help. If we fail, we still have Christ to cling to, and God forgives when we ask for forgiveness. God still loves us even when we fail.

sniper762 · Jun 27, 2010

do we not strive and "work" to obey his commandments?

Selene · Jun 27, 2010

sniper762 said:
do we not strive and "work" to obey his commandments?

You can strive and work to obey His commandments if you want, but you will fail in your own effort because with man it is impossible, but with God all things are possible (Matthew 19:26).

sniper762 · Jun 27, 2010

i thought that obeying god was all up to us

brionne · Jun 27, 2010

sniper762 said:
Pegg, you say " I agree. As Christians we are EXPECTED to follow God's commands".

what happens if we FAIL to meet god's commandments?

then we have jesus sacrifice to have our sins forgiven.

We will and do sin there is no doubt about that but Jesus 'pleads for us' if we pray to God for forgiveness on the basis of his sacrifice, Jesus acts as “a helper with the Father” as 1 John 2:1, 2 & Romans 8:34 clearly show.

bigape · Jul 12, 2010

Hello everyone

Here is another Scripture, that clearly teaches that man is not saved by “good works”.....

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us,
by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Although righteousness is important, “after a person gets saved”, it is absolutely worthless, before salvation!

(What I mean by “worthless”, is the fact that you could be the most righteous person on the face of the earth, but you would still die and go to hell, without the free gift of salvation, that is found in Jesus alone!)

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The Lie Of Religion

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