50 Things You Should Know About Tongues And Healing

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brionne

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For me it's really about much, much more than having knowledge or understanding of a message, any message, it's about experiencing the reality of Christ. Paul used the Greek word epignōsis, it's experiential knowledge. It is relating to Christ directly.

As far as sharing any new spiritual information goes, your exactly right, you seem to believe that you already know everything about God that can be learned because you have a bible. So there's absolutely nothing I can offer you. But I can challenge others to move past what some have said is the standard when it comes to growing spiritually and relating to God directly. It is by the power of HolySpirit. So if you see me respond to your posts in the future it is not in an attempt to change or adjust your thinking but rather the other readers.
smile.gif

ok thanks for that. So basically you are saying that talking in tongues is about 'experiencing' and relating to Jesus directly and it has nothing to do with knowledge or understanding.

That is really quite different to the gift of tongues in the first century. Why do you think God has changed the purpose and meaning of tongues today?
 

fivesense

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I agree
smile.gif


So rather then debate the legitimacy of talking in tongues, perhaps you can help us understand the phenonemon better by answering my questions

What message from God do we need today that Jesus Christ and the apostles did not supply for us?

And what new spiritual information could share with us that we dont already have?


There are many things the Lord and the Twelve did not teach or transmit to others.. I will focus on the secrets, or mysteries as the KJV terms them.
1. The secret of the duration of Israel's blindness. (Romans 11:25)
2. The secret of the evangel: the conciliation (Rom 16:25; Eph 6:19; Col 1:26,27).
3. The secret of the resurrection (1 Cor 15:51).
4. The secret of Christ (Eph 1:9; 3:4; Col 4:3).
5. The Secret (and its administration) (Eph 3:3,9; Col 1:26).
6. The secret of marriage (Eph 5:32).
7. The secret of lawlessness (2 Thess.2:7).
8. The secret of devoutness (godliness) (1 Tim 3: 16).

The reason these secrets were not revealed by the Lord or the Twelve is that they apply to the elect of the Body of Christ. There are major differences in God's operations with us as compared to the Jews, whom the Lord was a minister of (Rom 15:8). We were never a part of the scheme of salvation as presented during the Lord's earthly ministry to Israel (Rom 11:17-25).

Ours is a faith out of grace and election, chosen by God from before the down-casting of the world in Genesis 1:1. We are His workmanship, vessels of grace and wisdom to be displayed to the powers and principalities of the celestial realm, where we battle now and will reside at His coming.

Israel must be regenerated. Those saints who did not obtain the promises of priesthood, rulership over the nations, a temple, a land of their own, will be resurrected to life on earth, in born-again bodies of flesh, with His laws supernaturally imposed on their hearts and minds (Ezek 37). Thus will God fulfill His word of promise to them, when He returns to earth. It will be glorious and grand.

We are not born-again people. Our experience is not fleshly, it is spiritual. We are new creation altogether. If any man be in Christ, he is a new creation. Spiritual beings, deathless, incorruptible in form, just like His. Our home is in the heavens, where is our Savior, for whom we are awaiting.

2C 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Ga 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

The blessing of possessing this new creation, formed in the image of the Son, is incomprehensible yet absolutely real. We are being outfitted for service in the heavens as spirit beings, reigning with Christ as His Complement, reconciling the universe in subjection to His authority. Already we are these new creations, a blessing that Israel will not obtain til after the thousand year reign of Christ on earth. We have passed beyond the portion of time and place wherein the Son of Mankind rules over all the nations on earth through His People of Promise.

None of these secrets were ever spoken of by the Hebrew saints because they do not pertain to them, so God never revealed them. The Lord has a different plan for the Jew of the New Covenant. We are not a part of that covenant, which finds its fulfillment on the earth in the Lords Day. We are the elect Body of Christ, a complement of the Son, heavenly, spiritual, not the Bride of the Lamb. That is for Israel's glory on earth, not us.

Please note, Pegg. This is not "new spiritual information" that we do not have. It is all in the Book, written down by our Apostle, Paul. However, I recognize that tradition and false teachings have obscured the verity of these truths, and most cannot embrace them due to heavy reliance on men and creeds. We must believe God.

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

fivesense
 

Miss Hepburn

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I don't know anyone including myself that is prideful or boastful about healing or Speaking in Tongues.
No one.
It is always to glorify God.
I Speak inTongues- but alone, as a prayer language to God.
Just a few weeks ago, suffering from severe heat stroke - if you know anything about it -nothing
really helps it - pehaps a nap may make it better - the migraine, the neck tightness, heart pounding - it is miserable.
(I've had it many times.)
I prayed in tongues, in pain, rolling my head on my pillow, within 10 minutes or less ----ALL was gone.
Never in my life would I even have imagined this would or could happen --I just resorted to comforting myself - by distraction, I guess,
to pray in tongues - 'a secret prayer language between my spirit and God that the devil can not understand '- so I've been told, I'm
no scholar...and suddenly I was healed ---I can not debate, nor explain this. HOW did all the incredible upper (occiputal) neck tightness, and throbbing headache just vanish!
I don't study Acts and the present day - I just don't care to be so analytical or intellectual.

I love God and He is simply wonderful.
:) Miss Hepburn

And no one here need believe me - I do not need to convince anyone - just thought I'd drop by and say a little something since I personally
experience what many here are talking about. I used to care if people believed me about anything - that lasted about a week when I became an enthusiastic Christian. Now, I just say my peace and leave it at that.

Take care.
 

fivesense

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I don't know anyone including myself that is prideful or boastful about healing or Speaking in Tongues.
No one.
It is always to glorify God.
I Speak inTongues- but alone, as a prayer language to God.
Just a few weeks ago, suffering from severe heat stroke - if you know anything about it -nothing
really helps it - pehaps a nap may make it better - the migraine, the neck tightness, heart pounding - it is miserable.
(I've had it many times.)
I prayed in tongues, in pain, rolling my head on my pillow, within 10 minutes or less ----ALL was gone.
Never in my life would I even have imagined this would or could happen --I just resorted to comforting myself - by distraction, I guess,
to pray in tongues - 'a secret prayer language between my spirit and God that the devil can not understand '- so I've been told, I'm
no scholar...and suddenly I was healed ---I can not debate, nor explain this. HOW did all the incredible upper (occiputal) neck tightness, and throbbing headache just vanish!
I don't study Acts and the present day - I just don't care to be so analytical or intellectual.

I love God and He is simply wonderful.
smile.gif
Miss Hepburn

And no one here need believe me - I do not need to convince anyone - just thought I'd drop by and say a little something since I personally
experience what many here are talking about. I used to care if people believed me about anything - that lasted about a week when I became an enthusiastic Christian. Now, I just say my peace and leave it at that.

Take care.

May we all partake more often of the simple and childlike faith that animates and underscores your relationship to our Father, Miss H. Often we can get caught up in the discoveries of God's vast wisdom and plan, and forget the basics. You are a help and a friend of God.

fivesense
 

jiggyfly

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ok thanks for that. So basically you are saying that talking in tongues is about 'experiencing' and relating to Jesus directly and it has nothing to do with knowledge or understanding.

That is really quite different to the gift of tongues in the first century. Why do you think God has changed the purpose and meaning of tongues today?

No basically thats not what I'm saying, but it does seem that your knowledge of the spiritual gifts is very limited. I don't think that God changed anything, I think that you are misguided by the religious teaching of a denomination concerning the spiritual gifts. I think it best to leave it there, we simply disagree. Yesu ni Bwana.
smile.gif
 

brionne

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There are many things the Lord and the Twelve did not teach or transmit to others.. I will focus on the secrets, or mysteries as the KJV terms them.
1. The secret of the duration of Israel's blindness. (Romans 11:25)
2. The secret of the evangel: the conciliation (Rom 16:25; Eph 6:19; Col 1:26,27).
3. The secret of the resurrection (1 Cor 15:51).
4. The secret of Christ (Eph 1:9; 3:4; Col 4:3).
5. The Secret (and its administration) (Eph 3:3,9; Col 1:26).
6. The secret of marriage (Eph 5:32).
7. The secret of lawlessness (2 Thess.2:7).
8. The secret of devoutness (godliness) (1 Tim 3: 16).

The reason these secrets were not revealed by the Lord or the Twelve is that they apply to the elect of the Body of Christ. There are major differences in God's operations with us as compared to the Jews, whom the Lord was a minister of (Rom 15:8). We were never a part of the scheme of salvation as presented during the Lord's earthly ministry to Israel (Rom 11:17-25).


Im sorry, i dont understand what you mean that these things were not revealed by the apostles or Christ when you are clearly quoting from the writings of the NT. It would seem to me that if the apostles were writing about such things, then they were also teaching such things to the congregations....so how is that they were not revealed by the apostles or Jesus?

No basically thats not what I'm saying, but it does seem that your knowledge of the spiritual gifts is very limited. I don't think that God changed anything, I think that you are misguided by the religious teaching of a denomination concerning the spiritual gifts. I think it best to leave it there, we simply disagree. Yesu ni Bwana.:)

Ok it seems you are either not able or unwilling to provide an answer to these things anyway so I'll leave it there also.

I just want you to understand that the reason for my questions is because of what is written in the bible, I always take the word of God as truth above all others. :)
 

fivesense

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Im sorry, i dont understand what you mean that these things were not revealed by the apostles or Christ when you are clearly quoting from the writings of the NT. It would seem to me that if the apostles were writing about such things, then they were also teaching such things to the congregations....so how is that they were not revealed by the apostles or Jesus?



Ok it seems you are either not able or unwilling to provide an answer to these things anyway so I'll leave it there also.

I just want you to understand that the reason for my questions is because of what is written in the bible, I always take the word of God as truth above all others.
smile.gif


I am sorry Pegg, I thought you had read the Scriptures thoroughly. If you could show me where these secrets were revealed by the other Apostles, I would take sides with you gladly to affirm God's word. But as it is, I could not find any other New Testament writer that revealed the secrets other than Paul. Not the Lord, not the Twelve, no one.

It is quite likely though, that you will not help me out in finding who else revealed them in their epistles or letters, and that will speak much about Pegg, won't it...

Many are the people who claim they stand for the Bible alone," as truth above all others", and say the rely on it for all truth. But it is issues like this, where there is the refusal to submit to the truth, i.e. that no other New Testament figure revealed or taught the secrets besides Paul, is a sign of either laziness in study, or feigned submission to the Word of God.

fivesense
 

Jimmy Engle

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I found an interesting chart on the spiritual gifts mentioned in the NT........

Romans 12:6-8 - Prophecy, Serving, teaching, Exhortation, Giving, Leading, Showing Mercy

1 Corinthians 12:8-10 - Word of Wisdom, Word of Knowledge, Faith, Healings, Miracles, Prophecy, Discerning of Spirits, Tongues, Interpretation of Tongues

1 Corinthians 12:28-30 - Apostleship, Prophecy, Teaching, Miracles, Healing, Helping, Administrating, Tongues, Interpretation of Tongues

Ephesians 4:11 - Apostleship, Prophecy, Evangelism, Pastor/Teacher

1 Peter 4:9-11 - Speaking, Serving

Its interesting to find that after 1 Corinthians....the gifts of healing, tongues, interpretation of tongues and miracles are no longer recorded.
 

brionne

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[Fivesense wrote: "I am sorry Pegg, I thought you had read the Scriptures thoroughly. If you could show me where these secrets were revealed by the other Apostles, I would take sides with you gladly to affirm God's word. But as it is, I could not find any other New Testament writer that revealed the secrets other than Paul. Not the Lord, not the Twelve, no one.

It is quite likely though, that you will not help me out in finding who else revealed them in their epistles or letters, and that will speak much about Pegg, won't it..."]



Ah ok I see what you are saying....I did read the scriptures and I know what the secret and mysteries are and yes, they are explained in other passages in the NT which is why I was confused as to why you posted them. so here are the scriptures you posted with other writers who wrote about the same things.

1. The secret of the duration of Israel's blindness. (Romans 11:25)

In 2 Corinthians 3:14 Paul explains what this 'blindness' is. It was their powers of understanding their own scriptures. Paul says "For to this present day the same veil remains unlifted at the reading of the old covenant" And again in Romans 11:7 he says "The very thing Israel is earnestly seeking (the messiah) he did not obtain, but the ones chosen obtained it"

How do we know it was the Messiah whom Isreal was seeking? Because the hebrew scripture prophecies are all about the Messiah. Isreal were awaiting their Messiah but when he arrived John 1:11 says "He came to his own home, but his own people did not take him in" Luke also mentions the jews rejection of Jesus at Luke 19:14 and Jesus himself rebuked them because they were blind to their own scriptures about the Messiah. Matthew 16:3-4 You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but the signs of the times you cannot interpret."
Their Messiah was in their midst and performing many signs, but they did not recognize him because of their 'spiritual blindness'


2. The secret of the evangel: the conciliation (Rom 16:25; Eph 6:19; Col 1:26,27).

The answer to what the 'sacred secret' is found in Eph 1:9 "an 'administration' (Gr. oi‧ko‧no‧mi′an literally means “house administration/management.”) to gather all things together again in the Christ"
This was also revealed in Col 1:26-29 "the sacred secret that was hidden...But now it has been made manifest to his holy ones...It is Christ in union with YOU...He is the one we are publicizing, admonishing every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man complete in union with Christ."

Jesus also mentioned this secret at Matt 24:14 and Acts 1:8 The secred of the Christ and that thru Christ all the nations would be brought together thru union with Christ.


3. The secret of the resurrection (1 Cor 15:51).

In prayer to God, Jesus revealed at John 17:24 that his chosen ones would join him in his glory. He told them that they would be with him in heaven at Luke 22:30 and Paul explained it further in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 John also mentioned in Revelation 20:6 that the one who took part in the 'first ressurection' would go to heven to rule as kings and priests with Christ.

4. The secret of Christ (Eph 1:9; 3:4; Col 4:3).

This is the same secret of the 'evangel' as number 2 above.

5. The Secret (and its administration) (Eph 3:3,9; Col 1:26).

Again this is the same secret about the 'kingdom' that will gather all things together again in Christ.

6. The secret of marriage (Eph 5:32).

this is the marriage of the 'lamb to his bride' John mentions this marriage in Revelation 19:7 and the secret of it is seen in that this marriage or 'union' with christ involves, not only jews but as Paul mentioned in Ephesians 3:6 "people of the nations should be joint heirs..." & at Eph 2:15-16 he shows that both gentile and jew will be reconciled into union with Christ.
Peter also mentions that the gentiles would become clean people at Acts 10:28 thus they would be accepted into union with him.

7. The secret of lawlessness (2 Thess.2:7).

Paul spoke about the 'lawless' one as 'already at work' in his day. So it wasnt a 'secret' when he wrote it. At 1 Corinthians 11:17-18 he said that there were divisions among the christians.
Peter also mentions and explains what this lawless one is at Acts 20:29-30
Jesus described these lawless ones as wolves at Matt 7:15
John warns of the same ones at 1 John 2:18 & 1 John 4:1

The lawlessness that was at work in the first century was 'false teachers'

8. The secret of devoutness (godliness) (1 Tim 3: 16).

The secret of Godly devotion is explained by Paul in that verse.... it is Jesus himself so it wasnt only revealed in later times...they were all following christ so it was in the first century when that secret became manifest. The secret of christ was first mentioned by Moses at Gen 3:15 and it was called a secret because, until christ arrived, no one knew who would fill the role of the 'seed of the woman'. However, in the first century, Jesus was shown to be that one therefore the secret was revealed.
John 1:14
 
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Choir Loft
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Im sorry, i dont understand what you mean that these things were not revealed by the apostles or Christ when you are clearly quoting from the writings of the NT. It would seem to me that if the apostles were writing about such things, then they were also teaching such things to the congregations....so how is that they were not revealed by the apostles or Jesus?



Ok it seems you are either not able or unwilling to provide an answer to these things anyway so I'll leave it there also.

I just want you to understand that the reason for my questions is because of what is written in the bible, I always take the word of God as truth above all others. :)

The reader should be advised that references in this thread to various "secrets" are a form of modern Gnosticism.
The ultimate purpose of the 'secret knowledge' is to revolk or confuse the meaning of the Word of God and to de-Christ the person of Jesus.

Please read the entire second book of John for a clear insight on Christ vs. anti-Christ and deceitful messages such as the modern Gnosticism. In fact, most of John's writings deal with such heresies.
 

TallMan

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1. The Jews, as a nation, began with signs (Rom. 4:11; Exo. 4:8, 9, 17, 28, 30; 7:3; 8:23; 10:1-2; 13:9; 31:13, 17; Deu. 4:34; 6:22).
Technically, the Israel nation, a foreshadow of the true church.
"The Jews" were the nickname of the remnant of the house of Judah after their captivity in Babylon + others who accepted the religion for various reasons.

2. The Old Testament Jews lived by signs (Deu. 11:18; Jos. 4:6; 1 Sam. 10:7; 2 Kgs. 19:29; Isa. 7:14; 38:7, 22; Ezk. 4:3; 20:12, 20).
No, you don't "live by signs" you live by every word, and your daily bread. Signs point the way, but they are not the destination, the life.

3. The Jews demanded signs from the Lord Jesus Christ (Mat. 12:38; 16:1-4; 24:3; Jhn. 2:18; 6:30).
Unbelieving Jews demanded other signs when they didn't believe the signs he gave.
Jesus himself demanded signs and taught that if he (or anyone claiming to represent him) didn't have God's specofic signs, don't believe them. (John 10:37, Mark 16:16-17)
"If I do not the works (the miracles) of my Father, believe me not."

Miracles are God's nature, anyone who claims they don't need them or believe in them is denying God.

Rev. 2:26: And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations

4. The Jews require a sign, not the Gentiles (1 Cor. 1:22; Jhn. 4:48).
God, in his wisdom gaveand gives signs to the gentiles and it served to make people believe.
*think about it* ... what are signs for? - to show the way.
Without signs you get lost, or rather, remain lost since mankind is lost and in darkness.

2 or 3 gifts of tongues are to be operated in church meetings (1Co:14:22) as a sign to any non-Christian.


9. The Lord Jesus Christ said that an evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign (Mat. 12:39).
You ignore who he was talking to and what had already happened, see my answer to (3)

10. The Bible speaks of various spiritual gifts to believers, but tongues and healing are never emphasized more than the other gifts (1 Cor. 12:4-11).
"The gifts" refer speifically to the meetings-use, *giving* to the church, of what all Christians have for private use.
In Acts, all immediately spoke in tongues when they received the Spirit, no-one ever got anything else instead.

I won't bother answering the rest of your points until I see that you can take correction from the word of God
 

brionne

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The reader should be advised that references in this thread to various "secrets" are a form of modern Gnosticism.
The ultimate purpose of the 'secret knowledge' is to revolk or confuse the meaning of the Word of God and to de-Christ the person of Jesus.

Please read the entire second book of John for a clear insight on Christ vs. anti-Christ and deceitful messages such as the modern Gnosticism. In fact, most of John's writings deal with such heresies.

fivesense gave the scriptures regarding these 'secrets' so im sure he was not talking about 'modern gnostics' and their teachings.
 
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fivesense

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fivesense gave the scriptures regarding these 'secrets' so im sure he was not talking about 'modern gnostics' and their teachings.


Thank you Pegg, in aiding me. I considered that I was possibly gnostic, but I don't remember joining a Gnostic Church. I also considerd the poster to be confused, not seeing the passages mentioned. I do remember several here that do not hold the Writings in as high a regard as you or I. It is only to our benefit, and it is our rallying point.
fivesense
 

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Did someone mention a gnostic church?

I certainly did not.

Rather, I was referencing a heretical form of logic and misapplication of scripture.

I notice that no one has directly addressed those issues and have chosen to throw up a smoke screen instead.
 

Jimmy Engle

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I won't bother answering the rest of your points until I see that you can take correction from the word of God
This is not my study...I just shared the work of another. So can cannot speak on their behalf.

But I did make one point of my own and if you wish to discuss it then feel free.......

I wrote....anyone who prays or speaks in tongues to edify contradict scripture (1 Cor 14:22)
 

Grat

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I really can't see how it contradicts scripture. Just taking the passage you reference, 14:4 “He edifies himself”. Also, Pauls says that he wants them all to speak in tongues (14:5), therefore it must be “edifying”.
If you need to justify tongues in a corporate sense, then read the last part of verse 14:5.
Please people, just don’t get “hung-up” on the absence or presence of tongues. It’s a wonderful gift, if you’ve got it, use it appropriately, if you haven’t, then like Paul I’m sorry for you and wish it was different.
 
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Martin W.

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I'm not trying to teach or influence anyone. I'm just sharing something I came across that has many good truths to it. Another person asked me my opinion so I gave it....
Could you please show me where I am wrong so I can learn off of my mistakes? That would help me much better than just telling me that I am flawed and make indications that you have more knowledge than me.
It's like telling someone they are sinful without showing them in what way they have sinned....it's not helpful to either of us.
I'm not boasting in myself...I know my understanding is flawed...and there will never come a point in this life where I can boast in what I have learned....everyone should carry that attitude

The way I see it, the charismatics idea of tongues is wrong and it's not the true tongues of Paul's day. Whether someone agrees or disagrees...it will not effect salvation.
Now if you were to go around telling people that they need to speak tongues as a sing of receiving some baptism of the holy spirit...now that is a problem that needs to be dealt with...

I know that when it comes to spiritual gifts...it is a very controversial subject. Hammerstone made a good point by mentioning that. It seem that every time I post something...no matter what the subject...I always have to defend myself.
This is not the debate section. I found the list of scripture in regards to tongues and healing to be mostly true so I felt I would share it for other to read and agree or disagree. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs.
I'm not here to debate or argue about this....
Oh and Martin...I'm not just talking to you...this goes for everyone...if I feel like debating on this I would have put it in that section....I am not here to debate every little post I make. I am here to fellowship and spread truth...that is all

First of all James I would like to apologize to you. I dropped a grenade into your thread and then I disappeared.

That was not my original intention but other things took me away.

I am not able to reply fully at this moment but I want you to know that I do not disagree with your original post. I like your caution when it comes to tongues. I have often taken the same position. I have never fully decided if it (tongues) applies to modern day .

I have a great deal of background on both sides of the (tongues) debate. To this day I am uncertain.

There are very few things I am uncertain about in Christianity. But this is one.

Not sure when I can properly reply but I encourage you to keep searching. I know I will. I have spoken in tongues but am sometimes troubled by what I have observed (in the charismatic community) . I do not want to be like them.

Talk later
Thanks
Martin.
 

fivesense

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It is a matter that Paul concluded for us. The Corinthian ecclesia was established between two distinct periods of God's dispensations. The one to the Jews, the Gospel of the Circumcision, and the other being the Gospel of grace, to which Paul alone was commissioned. The gifts of the Spirit in 1 Cor 12 were part of the Kingdom proclamation, which had not yet subsided into postponement. Until Israel had fully rejected the offer of the Kingdom and the ministry of the Twelve, the gifts were still active, though as Paul pointed out, they would cease when that which was perfect had come. There is nothing more perfect for present day humanity than the new creation, formed from faith and grace, which every believer in Paul's evangel possesses. At this present time, only faith, expectation and love continue, and the full revelation of God being given, no other truths or signs matter since the Kingdom gospel is no longer a part of the plan of God.

Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
[Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the
hope of glory
: Col 1:25-
27


but, on the contrary, having seen that I have been entrusted with the good news of the uncircumcision, as Peter with that of the circumcision,
and having known the grace that was given to me, James, and Cephas, and John, who were esteemed to be pillars, a right hand of fellowship they did give to me, and to Barnabas, that we to the nations, and they to the circumcision may go, Ga 2:7-9

There is no other way to interpret these passage, except as they stand. The truth that the different gospel, which was not another, was the Kingdom teaching of John, the Lord, and the Twelve apostles. If careful study of the first two chapters of the Galatian letter does not prove this to the honest mind, then rightly dividing the word of truth also has no meaning.


Ro 16:25 . Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Ga 1:11-12 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Ro 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

The whole of the Galatian entreaty was the result of the Jewish Circumcision believers, not unbelievers as is assumed, under James' authority trying to bring the elect of Paul's evangel into bondage to the Kingdom gospel of law and works. The believing Jew will always be under law and works, it is part of the New Covenant the Lord Established, and is according to the Prophets and Patriarchal Promises.

We do not live according to what is seen, but what is not seen. Our expectation is not on this earth, it is heavenly and celestial. Our faith is the faith of Christ operating in us. We have none of our own, but what we do have is a gratuity, a causeless gift given to irreverent and ungodly people from among the nations whom He chooses, according to His election and purposes.

The "gifts" will prove nothing to anyone today about the coming presence of the Lord on earth, the near-at-hand Kingdom, because when He returns to earth in flesh, it will be for judgment, not salvation. No one will enjoy salvation in His Day, other than the elect of God. They are for the announcement of the King and the Kingdom on earth. That is over with till the Day of Wrath. There will be no announcement then, for He shall come as a thief in the night.

The proof of the Lords authority and those who represented Him on earth (the disciples and their proselytes to the faith like Cornelius and the Ethiopian eunich), was to be seen in the full operation of the "gifts" among the nations whom they refused to go to. They were meant to be the evidence of the heavenly hope, and the coming King, the Son of David, and Israel's co-regency with the Christ Messiah. He has postponed that operation according to the secret of the blinding of Israel, and the calling out of the spiritual Body of Christ composed of Gentile and Jew.

Until the fullness of the Nations comes in, there will be no further signs given to men other than that of the man of lawlessness, the false propht, and the beast. All else that postures itself as biblical has no basis in the Writings, if properly understood and correctly divided.

fivesense


 

Grat

New Member
Feb 18, 2008
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Wohh! This will be fun!
God tricked me into going to a Pentecostal church in the 90’s. I spent the first 6 months arguing with the pastor about baptism in the Holy Spirit, tongues, etc. I lost (or won, depending on how you look at it) :p .
I couldn’t now imagine life as a Christian without the infilling of the Holy Spirit, the revelation, purpose, direction, chastisement and joy that comes from a close relation with Him.
The breadth of understanding I now have of God and the sense of inadequacy as I realise how little of God I know!
Tongues is incredible. It “builds up (edifies)” my Spirit. When I truly don’t know what to pray I can start in tongues and then I get a sense of how God wants to move in the situation and can then start praying in English.
The Gift of prophecy has been so useful in enriching the lives of the believers I am in contact with (from all walks of life).
You talk about things being perfect now. I really don’t know what world you live in. The one I’m in still has disease, sickness, injury, demonic oppression, demonic oppression, unbelief and evil.
I still do not know perfectly, nor see clearly.
Assuming you are not a RC, answer me this. If all of this was supposed to have died out with the first century and the Bible become the only source of inspiration, why was the cannon of scripture not set until the time of Martin Luther?
(If you are a RC then we shouldn’t be having this discussion since miracles, etc, are fully part of their tradition)
Why are changes in understanding and theology still being fought over today if we now know perfectly?
Just because God doesn’t work actively in your world does not mean that he cannot choose to elsewhere. Pick you major reformer in the evangelical church over the last 2000 years and I will tell you about the signs, wonders and miracles that have accompanied them. The Wesleyans, the Booths, the Welsh Revival, the great awakenings in the US, all of them have come with signs, wonders and miracles. You can try to keep your God in a box if you want to, but mine keeps breaking out & I love it!
Show me ANYWHERE in the scriptures where knowledge of law or scripture was the yardstick that God used. Everywhere you turn it’s the same as in Jesus’ parable of the sheep and goats – depart from me, I never knew you (Matthew 25:31-46).
 

Paul

Member
Aug 19, 2006
529
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It is a matter that Paul concluded for us. The Corinthian ecclesia was established between two distinct periods of God's dispensations. The one to the Jews, the Gospel of the Circumcision, and the other being the Gospel of grace, to which Paul alone was commissioned. The gifts of the Spirit in 1 Cor 12 were part of the Kingdom proclamation, which had not yet subsided into postponement. Until Israel had fully rejected the offer of the Kingdom and the ministry of the Twelve, the gifts were still active, though as Paul pointed out, they would cease when that which was perfect had come. There is nothing more perfect for present day humanity than the new creation, formed from faith and grace, which every believer in Paul's evangel possesses. At this present time, only faith, expectation and love continue, and the full revelation of God being given, no other truths or signs matter since the Kingdom gospel is no longer a part of the plan of God.

....


So, five, where did you get this. When you quote copyrighted material you need to post the credits.
 
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